[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is AIWB foolish? (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 5/5/2016 10:54:51 AM EDT
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Looking for a G43 holster and the Incog looks appealing; not sure if I'm comfortable with having a gun pointed at my dick or femoral, though.
I can keep my finger off the trigger, but nobody is perfect. In any event, it looks like the Incog is still comfortable for 3-6 IWB |
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Seems great for carry in a vehicle. Quoted:
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Given a certain body type, restrictive dress code, and need for "continual discretion" while carrying, I suppose it makes some sense. If circumstances allow, however, "4:00" carry is about 87 times better. Seems great for carry in a vehicle. Not really... seat belt is going to get in the way, and vehicle-borne violent encounters are almost always better settled with the vehicle instead of the sidearm. If you really spend a lot of time driving, a dedicated vehicle holster (or whole gun) is a much better solution. |
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late.
I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB |
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I wouldn't say its foolish per se, but it definitely is the latest fad amongst the cool guy tactical instructors. I haven't seen a single instructor of late that doesn't appendix carry.
I just can't get it to work for me - always prints no matter what equipment or firearm I use. |
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... |
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As I mentioned in the other thread on the tangential subject, I'm carrying a G43 AIWB right now. It is absolute, ab stabbing, right nut compressing suckage compared to warm, lovely, conforming leather melding itself unnoticed to my hip at 4 o'clock. 
Tell us how you really feel 
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Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. I am by no means saying appendix is the way. Im just saying its an option for some. AIWB took many trials until it finally worked for me. Its a little faster and actually conceals better for this setup Im currently using. |
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Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. To be fair... when discussing instances like "dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery"... one is plenty.
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Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Stop fucking doing that and the problem solves itself. AIWB is not new. It has been around for decades. It has grown in popularity due to better holsters that are dedicated for that purpose. In 16 years of CCW I haven't shot myself with a IWB holster at the 3-4 o'clock position and have considered trying AIWB. I never re-holster in a hurry and I don't fuck with my gun while wearing it. |
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To be fair... when discussing instances like "dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery"... one is plenty.
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. To be fair... when discussing instances like "dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery"... one is plenty.
Yeah but that shit happens. Darwin and all. In my experience with firearms I have seen 3 seperate times where a person has shot themselves with a firearm they were handling. It all came down to the individual who was at fault, most due to being complacent with firearms. Only one was fatal, which, was a wake up call about how devistating firearms can be. |
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Of course they are. They have to introduce new training methods and gear when the old methods and gear aren't selling as much anymore. After that "new and improved" stops bringing in the dough, then something else will be the new fad. And all the threads in every gun forum will be dedicated to it. I'm going to be rich when I start the "belly carry" for fatties. I will make a holster that fits under your fat rolls. You just lift the pounds of flesh and draw. Tactifat will be the new thing and everyone will want to be a whale instead of a SEAL. |
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Appendix is my preferred carry style. It offers me more concealability and a more discreet draw. I also like the control I have over the gun at my front as opposed to my hip or my back where someone could possibly see it printing and try to take it. Shooting myself is easily avoided by not pulling the trigger. |
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Tell us how you really feel Quoted:
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As I mentioned in the other thread on the tangential subject, I'm carrying a G43 AIWB right now. It is absolute, ab stabbing, right nut compressing suckage compared to warm, lovely, conforming leather melding itself unnoticed to my hip at 4 o'clock.
Tell us how you really feel This muthafucka is crushing my Balzac. |
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I would not carry AIWB with a Glock or other pistol without an external safety. And AIWB carry would generally be well down on my list of carry options. Pointing a firearm at important bits of myself, even during holstering, seems a poor choice. I don't like that it's becoming popular with people whom, in my opinion, are not experienced gun handlers. |
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Looking for a G43 holster and the Incog looks appealing; not sure if I'm comfortable with having a gun pointed at my dick or femoral, though. I can keep my finger off the trigger, but nobody is perfect. In any event, it looks like the Incog is still comfortable for 3-6 IWB Yes, AIWB is foolish for you. |
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Of course they are. They have to introduce new training methods and gear when the old methods and gear aren't selling as much anymore. After that "new and improved" stops bringing in the dough, then something else will be the new fad. And all the threads in every gun forum will be dedicated to it. I'm going to be rich when I start the "belly carry" for fatties. I will make a holster that fits under your fat rolls. You just lift the pounds of flesh and draw. Tactifat will be the new thing and everyone will want to be a whale instead of a SEAL. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Of course they are. They have to introduce new training methods and gear when the old methods and gear aren't selling as much anymore. After that "new and improved" stops bringing in the dough, then something else will be the new fad. And all the threads in every gun forum will be dedicated to it. I'm going to be rich when I start the "belly carry" for fatties. I will make a holster that fits under your fat rolls. You just lift the pounds of flesh and draw. Tactifat will be the new thing and everyone will want to be a whale instead of a SEAL. I see your point, but dont necessarily agree. Most the instructors do not market their own gear. They may get some stuff from holster companies, maybe even a small kick. The only instructor I have trained with using AIWB is Defoor. Training wise, I dont see how their curriculum would be any different for a carry position. Its not that different. Its all simply fundamentals. Ive never really met an instructor that pushed a certain way to carry |
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Quoted: Yeah but that shit happens. Darwin and all. In my experience with firearms I have seen 3 seperate times where a person has shot themselves with a firearm they were handling. It all came down to the individual who was at fault, most due to being complacent with firearms. Only one was fatal, which, was a wake up call about how devistating firearms can be. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. To be fair... when discussing instances like "dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery"... one is plenty. Yeah but that shit happens. Darwin and all. In my experience with firearms I have seen 3 seperate times where a person has shot themselves with a firearm they were handling. It all came down to the individual who was at fault, most due to being complacent with firearms. Only one was fatal, which, was a wake up call about how devistating firearms can be. Shooting oneself in the ass will probably injure your pride on arfcom more than anything else. Shooting oneself in the femoral artery has a rather more severe consequence. I do my best to not invite Darwin to the party. |
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I prefer aiwb carry.
Natural defense in the absence of a gun is to put your hands in front of you. AIWB allows access since your hands are already in front without giving up frontal protection. If you are on the ground, tucked, fetal position whatever, AIWB gives you access to your firearm while 4 o clock, side, small of back do not. Not worried about shooting my dick off since its a pretty small target but I do reholster with my holster off the body. I generally use a Galco USA which is easy to take off and put back on and has a very small footprint. |
| I really don't care where anyone else carry's their firearm. I find IWB holsters to be less comfortable than OWB, so I stick with OWB. For long vehicle trips, a shoulder holster is most comfortable, with my traditional 4:00 O'clock carry also in place. That way, I have one I can get to quickly with a seat belt on, and still have my "normal" holster on. |
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Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. I am by no means saying appendix is the way. Im just saying its an option for some. AIWB took many trials until it finally worked for me. Its a little faster and actually conceals better for this setup Im currently using. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. I am by no means saying appendix is the way. Im just saying its an option for some. AIWB took many trials until it finally worked for me. Its a little faster and actually conceals better for this setup Im currently using. A few is plenty considering how few permits there are among gun owners. And those instances privide fuel for the enemies of concealed carry. AFAIC appendix carry may be fine for guys who rode "little birds" into hot environs for a living as risk/benefit is a whole different criteria to them but most people might be wiser to avoid tucking a muzzle into their junk. |
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A few is plenty considering how few permits there are among gun owners. And those instances privide fuel for the enemies of concealed carry. AFAIC appendix carry may be fine for guys who rode "little birds" into hot environs for a living as risk/benefit is a whole different criteria to them but most people might be wiser to avoid tucking a muzzle into their junk. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. I have only heard of a few. One in particular, an asian guy or something. I think the other was some thug anyhow who was carrying without a holster. I am by no means saying appendix is the way. Im just saying its an option for some. AIWB took many trials until it finally worked for me. Its a little faster and actually conceals better for this setup Im currently using. A few is plenty considering how few permits there are among gun owners. And those instances privide fuel for the enemies of concealed carry. AFAIC appendix carry may be fine for guys who rode "little birds" into hot environs for a living as risk/benefit is a whole different criteria to them but most people might be wiser to avoid tucking a muzzle into their junk. It's not that bad. Train, use good holsters, and reholster carefully and look the gun into the holster. To suggest that only Tier One guys can handle is silly. Plus, this: http://www.gunnuts.net/2015/07/03/the-gadget-an-additional-safety-device-for-glock-pistols/ Also, riding the hammer on a hammer fired gun as you reholster adds tons of safety to AIWB. |
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Seems great for carry in a vehicle. Quoted:
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Given a certain body type, restrictive dress code, and need for "continual discretion" while carrying, I suppose it makes some sense. If circumstances allow, however, "4:00" carry is about 87 times better. Seems great for carry in a vehicle. When I worked for the FAMS about 70 percent carried AIWB for the plane ride. |
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I'd do small of the back before appendix. As personal policy, I avoid pointing guns at myself if possible. SOB has a much higher possibility of accidental injury than just about any other method I can think of. Can you imagine falling on a gun located at the base of your spine, just above or on your coccyx? Being pushed into a wall\object during a struggle? Further, presentation seems like it would slow and cumbersome, to me, in my wholly amatuer opinion. |
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SOB has a much higher possibility of accidental injury than just about any other method I can think of. Can you imagine falling on a gun located at the base of your spine, just above or on your coccyx? Being pushed into a wall\object during a struggle? Further, presentation seems like it would slow and cumbersome, to me, in my wholly amatuer opinion. Quoted:
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I'd do small of the back before appendix. As personal policy, I avoid pointing guns at myself if possible. SOB has a much higher possibility of accidental injury than just about any other method I can think of. Can you imagine falling on a gun located at the base of your spine, just above or on your coccyx? Being pushed into a wall\object during a struggle? Further, presentation seems like it would slow and cumbersome, to me, in my wholly amatuer opinion. Mas? Is that you? 
I'm interested. Has this ever actually been an issue? I am amazed that Ayoob built a writing career in the mid 90s on two issues: the SOB holster "problem" and the homemade hollowpoint ammo "problem." "In (generic, nonspecific) Case #4..."
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Mas? Is that you?
I'm interested. Has this ever actually been an issue? I am amazed that Ayoob built a writing career in the mid 90s on two issues: the SOB holster "problem" and the homemade hollowpoint ammo "problem." "In (generic, nonspecific) Case #4..." Quoted:
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I'd do small of the back before appendix. As personal policy, I avoid pointing guns at myself if possible. SOB has a much higher possibility of accidental injury than just about any other method I can think of. Can you imagine falling on a gun located at the base of your spine, just above or on your coccyx? Being pushed into a wall\object during a struggle? Further, presentation seems like it would slow and cumbersome, to me, in my wholly amatuer opinion. Mas? Is that you?
I'm interested. Has this ever actually been an issue? I am amazed that Ayoob built a writing career in the mid 90s on two issues: the SOB holster "problem" and the homemade hollowpoint ammo "problem." "In (generic, nonspecific) Case #4..." I'm not Mas but his logic was sound, to me. You'll note I'm not an operator. I have no gun fighting experience. I only have theory to work on and, to me, that theory is sound. Much of my life is about risk mitigation. SOB carries a potential theoretical risk with no obvious upside. So, for me, it's a non-starter. I'm just talking here. |
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Stop fucking doing that and the problem solves itself. AIWB is not new. It has been around for decades. It has grown in popularity due to better holsters that are dedicated for that purpose. In 16 years of CCW I haven't shot myself with a IWB holster at the 3-4 o'clock position and have considered trying AIWB. I never re-holster in a hurry and I don't fuck with my gun while wearing it. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Stop fucking doing that and the problem solves itself. AIWB is not new. It has been around for decades. It has grown in popularity due to better holsters that are dedicated for that purpose. In 16 years of CCW I haven't shot myself with a IWB holster at the 3-4 o'clock position and have considered trying AIWB. I never re-holster in a hurry and I don't fuck with my gun while wearing it. Stop pointing your muzzle at major arteries and there is no opportunity at all. Every, and I mean every, incident involving injury I have witnessed in the workplace derived from a lapse of better judgement...basically an instance where someone said to themselves "I know this is risky and generally not a good idea, but, Im gonna do it just this once for the sake of expedience."  When my old man was teaching me to handle firearms he told me that the dumbest thing you can do is point a weapon at yourself, loaded or unloaded, if you shoot yourself you asked for it to happen. If those consequences suit you, great have at it.
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Stop pointing your muzzle at major arteries and there is no opportunity at all. Every, and I mean every, incident involving injury I have witnessed in the workplace derived from a lapse if better judgement...basically an instance where someone said to themselves "I know this is risky and generally not a good idea, but, Im gonna do it just this once for the sake of expedience." When my old man was teaching me ti handle firearms he toldme that the dumbest thing you can do is point a weapon at yourself, loaded or unloaded, if you shoot yourself you asked for it to happen. If those consequences suit you, great have at it.
Dude... you just don't get it. Every swinging dick that puts on his gun ad swaggers into the arena to keep the sheep safe is a steely-eyed dealer of death, that trains for 16 hours a day, and would never, ever have any sort of lapse in judgement or perception, never allow any fingers or foreign object near a trigger guard, and never allow the muzzle to cover anything, even for a picosecond, that he isn't willing to destroy. But don't given him a pistol with a manual safety... because he'll forget to disengage it and get himself killed.
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I'm not Mas but his logic was sound, to me. You'll note I'm not an operator. I have no gun fighting experience. I only have theory to work on and, to me, that theory is sound. Much of my life is about risk mitigation. SOB carries a potential theoretical risk with no obvious upside. So, for me, it's a non-starter. I'm just talking here. Quoted:
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I'd do small of the back before appendix. As personal policy, I avoid pointing guns at myself if possible. SOB has a much higher possibility of accidental injury than just about any other method I can think of. Can you imagine falling on a gun located at the base of your spine, just above or on your coccyx? Being pushed into a wall\object during a struggle? Further, presentation seems like it would slow and cumbersome, to me, in my wholly amatuer opinion. Mas? Is that you?
I'm interested. Has this ever actually been an issue? I am amazed that Ayoob built a writing career in the mid 90s on two issues: the SOB holster "problem" and the homemade hollowpoint ammo "problem." "In (generic, nonspecific) Case #4..." I'm not Mas but his logic was sound, to me. You'll note I'm not an operator. I have no gun fighting experience. I only have theory to work on and, to me, that theory is sound. Much of my life is about risk mitigation. SOB carries a potential theoretical risk with no obvious upside. So, for me, it's a non-starter. I'm just talking here. Same...I'm sure there's some risk, I just think he inflated it a bit to fill an article or two and now it's a thing. I've come off of a motorcycle at high speed and tumbled with a gun at 4:00. The slide hits right about where the backside of my pelvis lives. Scratched up gun, no sore pelvis. Who knows? |
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Quoted: Not a faster draw. Arguable about being easier to defend.  Quoted: Quoted: AIWB is the only way I can effectively conceal a full-size gun, plus it's easier to defend, and it's a faster draw. Just don't get in a race to holster the gun. Not a faster draw. Arguable about being easier to defend. |
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Define plenty. Quoted:
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I see alot of new gun people using appendix as of late. I honestly figured there would be more news stories than there have been. I think its fine to carry that way, obviously. But you better be paying attention and confident in your gun handling and gear. Theres a few top name instructors going to AIWB Theres plenty of articles on CCW's dying in their vehicle because they shot themselves in the femoral artery while trying to adjust or remove their AIWB rig... Define plenty. Plenty or one, I never ever ever want to be the one. |
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Same...I'm sure there's some risk, I just think he inflated it a bit to fill an article or two and now it's a thing. I've come off of a motorcycle at high speed and tumbled with a gun at 4:00. The slide hits right about where the backside of my pelvis lives. Scratched up gun, no sore pelvis. Who knows? Mas certainly wouldn't be the only gunrag writer of the 90's to do that sort of thing, that's for sure. I dismiss SOB carry not because of the injury potential, but because it's practically impossible to defend a halfway competent disarm attempt. Your attacker literally has an easier, more efficient draw stroke than you do. |
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It strikes me that in a situation where you are having to use your weak hand to fend off an attacker while drawing your weapon, having your weapon at 3 o'clock or farther back would be advantageous. Gives you more unfettered access to draw and maneuver the gun. Quoted:
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AIWB is the only way I can effectively conceal a full-size gun, plus it's easier to defend, and it's a faster draw. Just don't get in a race to holster the gun. Not a faster draw. Arguable about being easier to defend. Yep. Throw in DeltaElite777's "Plan B" here, and you're starting to make progress.
Clamp strong hand and gun, support hand draws and stabstabstabbystab. 
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I think it is. I don't know how anyone sits down with a gun holsters in that position. That said, if you're comfortable with having your gun pointed at your wang or femoral, go for it. You have to have the right holster and body style. Then you need the right belt, like chase and a couple people over on PF found, the common refrain about having a gunbelt to hold a pistol in place doesn't necessarily hold true for AIWB. A more flexible belt can be used to make AIWB more comfortable. OTOH, I use a double thickness leather belt designed to carry a gun and don't have any issues, but it isn't cinched too terribly tight either. For about two years, I've carried a Glock AIWB, but never really liked the idea of carrying a gun without a manual safety or a hammer AIWB. I was waiting for the gadget to come out for the Glock and finally got tired of waiting so I bought a HK P30. Side note about the gadget is that the inventors have been dealt a real shitty hand by life. That is at least one of the reasons it is taking so long to get it to market. If you want to read about the recent rise in popularity of AIWB carry, there is a thread over of PF that's been going on for a couple years now and if you have the time to read through 100+pages, you'll learn a ton. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |