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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#1]
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I prefer M193 over M855  
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Velocity is King.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:18:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I have two cases of M855A1 but one of the cases is loaded in M3 Pmags.  

I guess the difference is I used m855 effectively for years for real world stuff.  I have only ever used m193 for training especially when we could not get M855 through the supply stystem due to Iraq surge.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:18:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I suspect all the DoD stock of 193 has either been destroyed, broken up a sold as scrap, or donated to another country.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:19:23 PM EDT
[#4]
There is little if any M193 in inventory and stocks are low on M855.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:19:38 PM EDT
[#5]
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M855/ss109 can be very accurate.

Try Ggg, Norma, Swiss, or European brands vs American ones
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As others posted it never was king.  Shitty accuracy, marginal penetration improvement, more expensive.  It was always a compromise and mediocre round.  

M193 is superior.


M855/ss109 can be very accurate.

Try Ggg, Norma, Swiss, or European brands vs American ones


Emphasis on can be.  Very subjective.  In any of my 5.56 guns, if I shoot M855 and M193 out of the same gun, the M193 is always more accurate.  M855 may be good enough, but M193 will be more accurate in most firearms.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:19:57 PM EDT
[#6]
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straight from the US Army -- article is dated but relevant :


--------------------------

Evolution of the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round


By Lt. Col. Jeffrey K. Woods (USAASC)    November 26, 2010

https://www.army.mil/article/48657/evolution_of_the_m855a1_enhanced_performance_round


PICATINNY ARSENAL, N.J. -- Perhaps no subject is closer to the hearts of Soldiers than their weapons and ammunition. For decades, this intense interest in "guns and ammo" has sparked sharp debate over the best weapons and ammunition on the battlefield, a debate that continues to the present day.

Today, Program Executive Office Ammunition (PEO Ammo) at Picatinny Arsenal, N.J., manages DOD's conventional ammunition programs for all of the military services. PEO Ammo has life-cycle responsibility for the many different types of ammunition used by the joint warfighter, including general-purpose small-arms ammunition.

In 1960, when Army Research and Development Newsmagazine-the forerunner of Army AL&T Magazine -first appeared in print, a major controA,A!versy was raging over the relative merits of the then-standard 7.62mm round and a lighter, higher-velocity 5.56mm alternative. The Army adopted the 5.56mm M16 rifle in 1967; it fired the M193, the first 5.56mm round.

Nevertheless, the controversy continued over which caliber was better-5.56mm vs. 7.62mm-as the magazine noted through the years. In 1982, a review by Army Research, Development, and Acquisition Magazine (as it was then called) of small-arms ammunition development praised the lighter weight and lesser recoil achieved with the smaller round, yet observed that, "One of the inferiorities is, however, its penetration capability."

In 1982, the Army adopted the 5.56mm M855 round to replace the M193 in an effort to achieve better performance at longer ranges with the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). A steel penetrator in the front end of the M855 provides increased hard-target performance.

Development of the M16A2 rifle, which matched the twist of the M249 SAW, also allowed use of the heavier M855 round. The M193 is still produced today, largely for foreign military sales.

From 2003 to 2006, the Army conducted a study of available bullets, commercial and military, and found none that provided improved performance over the M855 against the target sets required of a general-purpose round.

Ensuring Consistency and Environmental Responsibility

In post-combat surveys and field reports from Iraq and Afghanistan, most Soldiers have indicated that the round works fine, delivering the desired effects against threat targets. But some Soldiers have reported that the round did not perform consistently, causing concern in the ammunition community.

In parallel, mounting environmental concerns drove the Army to consider replacing environmentally unfriendly materials such as lead. The Army's ammunition community, led by PEO Ammo, saw an opportunity to address the two concerns associated with the M855 round-lead and consistency.

The Army's solution is the new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round (EPR). This round offers better performance than the M855 against all targets likely to be engaged with small arms. This is quite a feat, considering the long-standing solid performance of the M855.

While it's true that a number of bullets (such as armor-piercing bullets) can penetrate hard targets well, they don't provide the needed effects against soft targets. Conversely, some bullets (such as hunting rounds, hollow-point, and other bullets) work well against soft targets but can't penetrate harder barriers. Nor do hollow points meet the Army's requirement to adhere to the Law of War, defined as "[t]hat part of international law that regulates the conduct of armed hostilities. It is often called the 'law of armed conflict' " (DoD Directive 2311.01E, DoD Law of War Program). Even today, we have found no other round-other than the new EPR-that can outperform the M855 as a capable, general-purpose round.

Why the M855A1 Excels

So what makes the EPR so good' It uses the same components as the M855-a jacket, a penetrator, and a metal slug. But the new round contains some subtle changes (see Figure 1). The copper cup, from which the jacket is formed, is reverse-drawn, the opposite of how the M855 jacket is drawn. The hardened steel penetrator is almost twice as heavy as the one used in the M855 and is fully exposed instead of hiding beneath the softer copper jacket.

The slug is made of copper, making the projectile nonhazardous to the environment while delivering needed performance. Since the EPR is similar to the M855, the Army can use the same manufacturA,A!ing equipment now used for the M855, providing additional savings and large-scale manufacturing capability. Once the M855A1 replaces the leaded M855, it will reduce the amount of lead in production by approximately 2,000 metric tons yearly, based on the amount now used to make the M855.

There are three main areas in which the new round excels: soft-target consistency, hard-target penetration, and the extended range at which it maintains these performance improvements.

This is not to imply that the EPR increases the maximum effective range of the M4 or M16. Its trajectory matches the M855's, which aids in training, lessens the need to re-zero the weapon, and allows it to link to the current tracer round (the M856) for eventual use in the M249 SAW. So while the maximum effective range does not increase, effectiveness at range does, meaning the round greatly extends the range of desired effects along its trajectory.

The Army tackled the consistency issue by focusing on the yaw of a projectile and how differences in yaw can influence results when striking soft targets. The M855 round, similar to the Army's M80 (7.62mm ball round), is a "yaw-dependent" bullet. As any bullet travels along its trajectory, it "wobbles" in both pitch and yaw, causing the projectile to strike its target at different attitudes with virtually every shot.

For a yaw-dependent bullet such as the M855 or M80, this results in varying performance, depending upon where in the yaw/pitch cycle the bullet strikes its target. For example, at a high angle of yaw, the M855 performs very well, transferring its energy to the target in short order. At a low angle of yaw, however, the bullet reacts more slowly, causing the inconsistent effects observed in the field.

The M855A1 is not yaw-dependent. Like any other bullet, it "wobbles" along its trajectory. However, the EPR provides the same effects when striking its target, regardless of the angle of yaw. This means the EPR provides the same desired effects every time, whether in close combat situations or longer engagements. In fact, the U.S. Army Research Laboratory (ARL) verified through live-fire tests against soft targets that, on average, the M855A1 surpassed the M80 7.62mm round. The 7.62mm, although a larger caliber, suffers from the same consistency issue as the M855, but to a higher degree.

Hard-target performance is a second area where the EPR really shines (see Figure 2). The exposed, heavier, and sharper penetrator, along with a higher velocity, allows Soldiers to penetrate tougher battlefield barriers than is possible with the current M855. Although it's not an armor-piercing round, the EPR can penetrate 3/8 inch-thick mild steel at distances approaching 400 meters (based on the range at which 50 percent of the rounds can pass through the barrier). The M855 only penetrates this material out to approximately 160 meters.

Not only is this performance much better than the M855's with its smaller steel penetrator, it is vastly better than the M80 7.62mm round.

Additionally, the EPR can penetrate concrete masonry units at ranges out to 80 meters with the M16 and 40 meters with the M4. The M855 can't penetrate this type of battlefield barrier at any range.

Also notable is the EPR's excellent performance against softer intermediate barriers such as car doors, windshields, or Kevlar fabric. The thinner metal found on car doors poses no problem. When engaging targets behind windshields with the EPR, ARL has shown an increase in the probability of hitting the occupant, due to both the steel penetrator and the copper slug remaining intact through the glass. Furthermore, ARL tested the round against 24 layers of Kevlar fabric out to 1,000 meters, but discontinued the test as the Kevlar showed no sign of being able to stop the EPR. The EPR also penetrates some lesser-quality body armors designed to stop 7.62mm ball rounds.

Another benefit Soldiers will see from the new round is its effectiveness when engaging soft targets at longer ranges.

As a small-caliber projectile's velocity decreases, it eventually will reach a point at which it can no longer transfer most of its energy to its target. Below this velocity, which equates to range, the round is more likely to pass through its target with little effect. The M855A1 can maintain consistent, desired effects at a much lower velocity, resulting in excellent effectiveness at far greater ranges along its trajectory.

In addition to the above-mentioned performance improvements, the EPR is more accurate than the M855. Accuracy testing during production lot acceptance has shown that, on average, 95 percent of the rounds will hit within an 8 x 8-inch target at 600 meters. It also uses a flash-reduced propellant optimized for the M4's shorter barrel.

The good news is that all of these performance improvements come with no weight increase to the Soldier.

Soldiers Are the Focus

Soldiers will surely discuss the M855A1 EPR during their ritual debates on guns and ammo. The new M855A1 will greatly increase Soldier performance on the battlefield, but inevitably, Soldiers will have the final vote as they must maintain their weapon systems, train, aim, and engage their targets. As always, good marksmanship skills are critical for success in small-arms engagements. No matter how good the bullet, it can't do its job if it doesn't hit the target.

During the past 50 years, 5.56mm general-purpose ammunition has evolved to a level of performance that addresses all of the major warfighting needs of our services. The M855A1 EPR is a significantly improved 5.56mm round that provides excellent soft target consistency and vastly better hard target performance, and increases our Soldiers' effectiveness at extended ranges with better accuracy-all without increasing their load.

The M855A1 represents the most significant performance leap in small-arms ammunition in decades. Our Soldiers deserve the best, and with the M855A1 EPR, they get it.

------------------------------------------------
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Thanks and noted. Spot on sir
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:20:43 PM EDT
[#7]
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Velocity is King.
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It is for sure, what a 20” rifle will do versus a 10.5” will with the same ammo is pretty wild.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:21:14 PM EDT
[#8]
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Last time I bought 855 was when Walmart was blowing out that zqi stuff. Forgot what it cost. I don't think I shot any of it after checking it. Iirc it was actually pretty accurate.
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Same here.  I loaded 300 rounds in ten 30rd mags and shot the rest.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:21:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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I suspect all the DoD stock of 193 has either been destroyed, broken up a sold as scrap, or donated to another country.
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Some is still bought for foreign support programs.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:25:23 PM EDT
[#10]
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As far as M193 and their equivalent rounds I haven't seen Wolf Gold in forever now.  Is it not a thing anymore?
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Target Sports has it.  It has a new box.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:30:59 PM EDT
[#11]
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I think I have probably 10-11k of ss109 stacked back. I used my border money to buy 5 cases when it was still expensive. Shame it hasn’t come down yet.

I wish 262 or 318 was more available but ss109 was dropping dudes years before any of those other options were on the market.
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Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:38:34 PM EDT
[#12]
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Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.
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I think I have probably 10-11k of ss109 stacked back. I used my border money to buy 5 cases when it was still expensive. Shame it hasn’t come down yet.

I wish 262 or 318 was more available but ss109 was dropping dudes years before any of those other options were on the market.

Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.


I like that you popped in right under the Wolf Gold post.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#13]
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I like that you popped in right under the Wolf Gold post.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I think I have probably 10-11k of ss109 stacked back. I used my border money to buy 5 cases when it was still expensive. Shame it hasn’t come down yet.

I wish 262 or 318 was more available but ss109 was dropping dudes years before any of those other options were on the market.

Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.


I like that you popped in right under the Wolf Gold post.

I can sense Wolf Gold posting
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:42:40 PM EDT
[#14]
SGammo has PMC M855 for just under $13 a box, or $499 for a case. Neat.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#15]
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SGammo has PMC M855 for just under $13 a box, or $499 for a case. Neat.
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Gay

M193 or specialty only. Pretty much the rules are anything but steel case or m855
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:44:14 PM EDT
[#16]
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Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.
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How much are the clones going for?

I’m building a 20” dmr that’s going to be built around 77grn pills
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:47:15 PM EDT
[#17]
I doubt 855 is used for training. A1 ruining shoot houses was a thinvlg almost 10 years ago.

Why train and zero with something else?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:48:25 PM EDT
[#18]
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How much are the clones going for?

I’m building a 20” dmr that’s going to be built around 77grn pills
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Quoted:

Dude there's tons of mk262 available. It is just ridiculously expensive if you want the real stuff and not a clone.


How much are the clones going for?

I’m building a 20” dmr that’s going to be built around 77grn pills

PSA is like $0.63
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:50:39 PM EDT
[#19]
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PSA is like $0.63
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For psa brand?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:51:30 PM EDT
[#20]
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For psa brand?
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PSA is like $0.63


For psa brand?

Yeah AAC 77gr OTM
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:54:26 PM EDT
[#21]
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I doubt 855 is used for training. A1 ruining shoot houses was a thinvlg almost 10 years ago.

Why train and zero with something else?
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The USMC does because its rifle doesn’t have a chamfered barrel face as part of its OTB feature, so it does not work well with A1
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#22]
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I prefer M193 over M855  
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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:59:47 PM EDT
[#23]
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As far as M193 and their equivalent rounds I haven't seen Wolf Gold in forever now.  Is it not a thing anymore?
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It never was….

M193

ETA: remember one of our Dumocratic overlords passed a law prohibiting sale of .mil surplus ammo due to “weapons of war,” which was why XM193 & XM855 by Federal remained popular.

Also, IMI, now known as IWI currently, is shiny mil-spec, if XM dull & scratched US cases are off-putting & shiny is preferred.

I don’t mean the Firefly “shiny” if I’m confusing anyone.

As far as M193 and their equivalent rounds I haven't seen Wolf Gold in forever now.  Is it not a thing anymore?


I dunno…

I’m a 5.56 snob & still have M193 South African battle packs.  No PMC, .223 flavors.  Even my target handloads are in 5.56 velocity range.

The only Wolf Ammo I ever bought was 7,62x39 for an AKM variant.  I don’t have it or ammo any more, since I sold it.

It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it?  A foreign substance like steel case ammo is introduced into our precious bodily fluids ammo supply without knowledge of the individual.  Certainly, without any choice.

That’s the way your hard-core Commie works.

It’s a preversion by disgusting preverts.



Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:00:09 PM EDT
[#24]
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Concur

At this point all I load is 55gr FMJBT for hoser stuff and 77gr TMKs. I did recently pick up 5k of the 77gr SMK seconds from Midway that I'll use for 100-300yd 2 gun/3 gun matches to save the TMKs, but the two projectiles over a load of 8208XBR that's in 5.56 pressure territory have nearly the same POA/POI within 300yds in my rifles. I just zero with the TMKs and use the SMK loads if I know the match doesn't have targets beyond 300.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:03:42 PM EDT
[#25]
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The only reason I own M855 is because you people created a scare thread saying it was going to be banned in 2018. Cost me $1.30 per round.

M193 aka Q3131 is better.
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Your actions are understandable. I hope you never get to feel satisfaction in buying at that price.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:05:11 PM EDT
[#26]
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Would love to find some of the mk318 bullets.
I’ve stocked up on m193 and couple of cans of m855 on stripper clips during the Walmart purge
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I want some Mk 319 projectiles. Midway had pulled bullets forever ago from some demilled ammo, but I only had a bolt action .308 at the time and thought "why would I ever need those?"

Now my only .308 is a 12.5" AR10 and the idea of a barrier blind 130gr 7.62x51 round takes me from 6 to midnight
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:10:29 PM EDT
[#27]
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Yeah AAC 77gr OTM
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I have zero trust in psa ammunition.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:10:58 PM EDT
[#28]
It is not king and I’m down to about 600 rds of it I’ll save. It’s the hot loaded IMI shit before the lowered pressures. Throw in the 20” if shit ever pops off and get to penetrating.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:12:46 PM EDT
[#29]
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Velocity is King.
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I prefer M193 over M855  


Velocity is King.


1/2mass x velocity^2 is real & why.

My HD SBRs are suppressed & have 77gr BH TMK.  My mag carrier has a mag each of M855 & Mk318 by Federal.

Honestly, I think I’m more likely to win the lottery than need this stuff—and I don’t even buy lottery tickets.

But, being 30 mins from a major urban city now & the same in 1967 and remembering my dad stressed during Newark, NJ riots/arson in the summer 1967 is why.

Modern high explosives are quite stable—I’d set Claymores up if I could buy them, but I can’t, so AR SBR as above.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:15:42 PM EDT
[#30]
M193 all the things
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:26:58 PM EDT
[#31]
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Yeah AAC 77gr OTM
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I get 1.5 MOA out of the PSA AAC 77gr OTM. Their AAC 75gr BTHP is loaded with Hornady BTHP and shoots slightly better for me as well as the AAC 77gr Sierra Matchking loads (1.2-ish MOA for me). I think they're the go-to for factory match plinking ammo.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:47:31 PM EDT
[#32]
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I get 1.5 MOA out of the PSA AAC 77gr OTM. Their AAC 75gr BTHP is loaded with Hornady BTHP and shoots slightly better for me as well as the AAC 77gr Sierra Matchking loads (1.2-ish MOA for me). I think they're the go-to for factory match plinking ammo.
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Quoted:

Yeah AAC 77gr OTM

I get 1.5 MOA out of the PSA AAC 77gr OTM. Their AAC 75gr BTHP is loaded with Hornady BTHP and shoots slightly better for me as well as the AAC 77gr Sierra Matchking loads (1.2-ish MOA for me). I think they're the go-to for factory match plinking ammo.



Tangential, but JMHO - I think the Hornady 75 HPBT is an underappreciated bullet.  It has a better BC than 77 SMK yet still lighter, meaning both faster AND better flight behavior.  Hornady had QC issues for a very long time, with a flyer in every box, for the longest time - which probably didn't help.  But if you got any in the last 10 years, I personally think this is a better bullet than the 77 SMK and underappreciated.  It's not actually materially better - rare will be the shot where one will make the difference over the other.  But combine that with the price, and yea, 75 Hornady BTHP is actually kind of a great bullet.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:56:36 PM EDT
[#33]
I haven't seen M855 since 2018, every range has been with M855A1.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:57:54 PM EDT
[#34]
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Tangential, but JMHO - I think the Hornady 75 HPBT is an underappreciated bullet.  It has a better BC than 77 SMK yet still lighter, meaning both faster AND better flight behavior.  Hornady had QC issues for a very long time, with a flyer in every box, for the longest time - which probably didn't help.  But if you got any in the last 10 years, I personally think this is a better bullet than the 77 SMK and underappreciated.  It's not actually materially better - rare will be the shot where one will make the difference over the other.  But combine that with the price, and yea, 75 Hornady BTHP is actually kind of a great bullet.
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It still has random flyers, but I'm getting an average of 1.25 MOA out of the 75gr Hornady BTHP in the AAC loading. Without flyers, they're practically touching.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:06:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:


I won’t discount that someone, somewhere may be using Mk318, but it most definitely is not the standard service wide.

Where are you seeing Mk318 used?

ETA: I’m not seeing Mk318s DODIC on any operational GMAT.  Now I’m curious where you’re seeing it used.

@Matt_Hunter
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But it is being used widespread by the Air Force.  If you’re not in the Air Force and you think I’m making things up or I don’t know what I’m talking about that’s your issue.  I only saw MK318, only fired Mk318, and have only heard of its usage around the force by Security Forces.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:17:44 PM EDT
[#36]
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The USMC does because its rifle doesn’t have a chamfered barrel face as part of its OTB feature, so it does not work well with A1
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Quoted:
I doubt 855 is used for training. A1 ruining shoot houses was a thinvlg almost 10 years ago.

Why train and zero with something else?


The USMC does because its rifle doesn’t have a chamfered barrel face as part of its OTB feature, so it does not work well with A1


Yep.  Lots of M855 getting used by the USMC.

My job has me interacting with Marines who are out training/running ranges on a USMC installation.

M855 is issued by the ASP and utilized by virtually every unit.  Some other 5.56 ammo occasionally gets requested and used, but primarily M855.

There was a period about a year and a half ago where M855 (DODIC A059) dried up and Mk 318 (DODIC AC12) was subsituted.  Victor units, SOI privates, everyone using M855 who drew out of the installation ASP got issued Mk 318. That's pretty much ended and M855 has mostly come back.

SOI-ITB uses steel targets for the long bay portion of their rifle AMTP COF.   The 100 meter steel gets beat up pretty bad by M855.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:22:34 PM EDT
[#37]
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I have zero trust in psa ammunition.

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Yeah AAC 77gr OTM


I have zero trust in psa ammunition.

You are wrong on that.  It's good.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#38]
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The USMC does because its rifle doesn’t have a chamfered barrel face as part of its OTB feature, so it does not work well with A1
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Quoted:
I doubt 855 is used for training. A1 ruining shoot houses was a thinvlg almost 10 years ago.

Why train and zero with something else?


The USMC does because its rifle doesn’t have a chamfered barrel face as part of its OTB feature, so it does not work well with A1


Are they going to fix that?  I thought it wasn't really fixable in the design?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:25:34 PM EDT
[#39]
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There was a period about a year and a half ago where M855 (DODIC A059) dried up and Mk 318 (DODIC AC12) was subsituted.  Victor units, SOI privates, everyone using M855 who drew out of the installation ASP got issued Mk 318. That's pretty much ended and M855 has mostly come back.
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Ouch, sounds expensive

I have assume you are probably an expert in TAMIS and RFMSS
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:27:09 PM EDT
[#40]
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Are they going to fix that?  I thought it wasn't really fixable in the design?
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Would require an engineer change request, but  to do that would have worked against the narrative the purchase was the easy way to field replacement guns.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:27:14 PM EDT
[#41]
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LOL, I did the same.  It was a short lived panic, but one that proved to be profitable.  I had about 2k rounds of M855.  I went to Sportsman’s Warehouse and cleaned them out of their 420 ct .30 cans (10 of them).   I listed it all on GB and had it all sold in 2 days for about 3x what I had paid for it.  Waited until prices came down on M193, then spent all the extra on M193.  That bumped my M193 stash to over 10k rounds.  Happy days.
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When the 855 panic hit a while back I traded all my 855 for x2 M193.  


LOL, I did the same.  It was a short lived panic, but one that proved to be profitable.  I had about 2k rounds of M855.  I went to Sportsman’s Warehouse and cleaned them out of their 420 ct .30 cans (10 of them).   I listed it all on GB and had it all sold in 2 days for about 3x what I had paid for it.  Waited until prices came down on M193, then spent all the extra on M193.  That bumped my M193 stash to over 10k rounds.  Happy days.



Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:29:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:31:49 PM EDT
[#43]
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I dunno…

I’m a 5.56 snob & still have M193 South African battle packs.  No PMC, .223 flavors.  Even my target handloads are in 5.56 velocity range.



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I still have 4 and a half tubs of the 2700rd brown SA tubs of the 55g stuff. Bought it years ago. My old 20" green AUG with the doughnut of death is accurate as hell with it.

All my other 5.56 rifles are 1-7" twist. For serious social occasions,  they will be using 77g Mk262 clone ammo. I have a bunch of IMI Razor Core. Also have a bunch of components to handload Mk262 clone ammo.

I scored a huge amount of Mk318 and Mk318A1 projectiles when they popped up on gunbroker years ago.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:37:12 PM EDT
[#44]
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But it is being used widespread by the Air Force.  If you’re not in the Air Force and you think I’m making things up or I don’t know what I’m talking about that’s your issue.  I only saw MK318, only fired Mk318, and have only heard of its usage around the force by Security Forces.
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I won’t discount that someone, somewhere may be using Mk318, but it most definitely is not the standard service wide.

Where are you seeing Mk318 used?

ETA: I’m not seeing Mk318s DODIC on any operational GMAT.  Now I’m curious where you’re seeing it used.

@Matt_Hunter

But it is being used widespread by the Air Force.  If you’re not in the Air Force and you think I’m making things up or I don’t know what I’m talking about that’s your issue.  I only saw MK318, only fired Mk318, and have only heard of its usage around the force by Security Forces.


I’ve got 15+ years in and fairly intimate knowledge of the weapons/munitions side of the house.  Do you even know what a GMAT is?  I’ve never seen a single round of the stuff in use and it’s not listed as an authorized munition for order by any SF units/accounts (just double checked and it’s not an authorized DODIC on any GMAT AF wide).

Are you confusing Mk318 for the brown tip frangible stuff (I think it’s Mk311, AA40 DODIC) used basically everywhere for Qual fire?

@Matt_Hunter
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:54:01 PM EDT
[#45]
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Ouch, sounds expensive

I have assume you are probably an expert in TAMIS and RFMSS
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It was expensive, and lasted for almost a year.

PM sent.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:08:36 PM EDT
[#46]
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I have zero trust in psa ammunition.

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I'm not sure it's the best but haven't had any problems. I had a couple light primer strikes with the 9mm but that was in my dagger and a 1911. The dagger does it with different ammo occasionally.

All I've been buying in 556 is ACC/PSA because most of their 77gr on down is as much or cheaper than 55gr from anyone else. May as well, worse case it's range ammo.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:14:34 PM EDT
[#47]
I only buy M855 green tip.
There are YouTube videos that show that it outperforms M193 in effectiveness.
A lot of people here like M193 because it's a little cheaper.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:20:00 PM EDT
[#48]
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M855/ss109 can be very accurate.

Try Ggg, Norma, Swiss, or European brands vs American ones
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I have some Prvi SS109 I need to take out one of these days.  Indoor ranges won't let you shoot it, for obvious reasons.

Izzy 77gr OTM is quite satisfactory ~1-1.5 MOA-ish , if not pricewise.  Stretching its legs too, to 300 or so, is on the to-do list.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:24:07 PM EDT
[#49]
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The only reason I own M855 is because you people created a scare thread saying it was going to be banned in 2018. Cost me $1.30 per round.

M193 aka Q3131 is better.
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That was during the Obama administration.

Bought a lot of IMI M855 and M193 during the MidwayUSA blowout. Also bought a bunch of Federal 420 round cans during that Black Friday rebate period. Worked out to $109 a can for M193 and $119 for M855
I miss those days.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:32:37 PM EDT
[#50]
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Velocity is King.
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I prefer M193 over M855  


Velocity is King.


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