Posted: 8/22/2005 6:38:15 AM EDT
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this is an online version of one of Baen's books by Holly Lisle I found it a good read and it describes a view of God I found intesting, especially in light of the thread on all religions being correct. www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0671877038/0671877038.htm Its in the free library, you can even download the book as a zip if you would like. I thought I would share the last chapter
Thats a concept of God even an atheist has to like... |
www.hollylisle.com/author/bio1.html
 Shok |
Why the ?He feels his relationship with god is a personal one, and shouldn't be made public. I have more respect for that viewpoint than for the TV Ministers, and any group (or groups, not going to single any of them out) who think coming door to door and asking me "have you found jesus" in the middle of my "night" (I work nights, so the doorbell ringing at 2pm is extremely annoying, yet those "have you found jesus" people can't seem to read the sign saying "day sleeper, do not ring bell" covering the doorbell). |
A more enlightening area to quote would be:
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No, I read your quote, and immediately noticed that you had once again posted some found-on-the-internet anti-Christian drivel to post, and, as such, it would be a complete waste of my time to read it. Even worse, it was a complete waste of YOUR time to read it.
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Actually its not anti-Christian at all. Furthermore, there is nothing anti-Christian in any of the posts in this thread. So far your the only person who has decided to show his ass. Bravo If you want to read it and discuss it feel free, otherwise please don't troll this thread. Thanks. |
I guess it's not "anti-Christian" so long heresy isn't. From excerpt: "God, once again in his Christian form . . ." |
How is that derogatory to Christianity? I said the book took the view that God had allowed many paths to salvation, although it concentrates on the Christian aspect. That idea is the basis for a few different belief systems (the Bahai faith for one) so its not as if its not a valid concept. ETA: you edited after I posted. Yes it would be viewed as heretical by orthodox Christianity. You might be surprised how many self-confessed Christians hold to a similar view though. I would posit that heresy is not definitively anti-Christian. It was heresy for Martin Luther to start the reformation. It was at one time heresy to proclaim the earth orbitted the sun. |
___________________________________________ As a majority in this country and within this forum, why would you consider any idea beyond the realm of Christian ideology as anti-Christian? To discuss in terms of co-religionist dialogue scriptural references is not a slam. To be portrayed as horribly hurt and mal-treated by other views outside your ken is a sad commentary upon yourself. We can live together and learn. |
The part in red, my friend, is patently anti-Christian. There is ONE path to salvation. His name is Jesus Christ. As far as being surprised at the number of self-confessed Christians who have heretical beliefs, no, that doesn't surprise me at all. It disappoints me, but it doesn't surprise me. |
If you understood Christianity, you would know the answer. Christianity really is 'Jesus's way, or Hell'. It really is that simple. You're either for it, or you're against it. |
If I say I am not a homosexual does that make me anti-homosexual. Anyone who is not a Christian probably doesn't agree 100% with Christian Dogma. That doesn't make them anti-Christian. It makes them non-Christian. Its not anti-Christian to state beliefs (either personal or the acknowledge beliefs of any religion) I will agree it is heresy, but it isn't anti-Christian. |
Read the implications of the underlined words below.
Now, to a Christian with even basic knowledge, that boldly implies that Christianity is utterly false. It says the God of the Bible is a liar and that Christ's death wasn't so much an atonement after all.
It's true that the idea is precedented, but that doesn't mean it's valid. As someone who believes in the laws of logic, and that truth is real and knowable, I see the concept as being preposterous.
Yeah. Figured I'd try and be a little less ambiguous. 
That's my point.
Actually, I wouldn't. We have quite a dilemma these days. Many Christians can't think their way out of a wet paper bag, hardly know a fraction of the Scriptures, and aren't really at all concerned about things of theology, philosophy, or sound doctrine. At first, the life of the mind was considered of prime importance and the Church could out-think her critics; but for some reason the Church has just sort of backed off from intellectual pursuits for the past 150-200 years or so. It retreated into Bible colleges and small groups instead of fighting in the halls of academia where our future leaders are trained. Many chose to disregard the intellect and rely on emotions (which cannot be easily falsified, but can be easily manipulated). This led to a preference for "heart experiences" over a true change of mind (which is what "repentance" literally means). Discipleship was replaced by "revival. " Careful study was replaced by "feeling led." Spirituality became private and had little to do with scholarship. Heck, even atheists and non-Christians (who like to argue against Christianity) are really slacking these days. It's hard to even get into a debate without having to explain Theology 101 to your "opponent" along the way. It's almost like being challenged to a race by a guy, and then having to tie his shoes before the race! Logical fallacies in every statement are generally the norm, and there is almost a fire hazard created from all the dead straw men laying around. Even professional atheist philosophers seem to be in a slump. Their modern arguments and rebuttals are largely emotion or ignorance-based (just as the aforementioned modern Church practices) and are rather unsophisticated (I guess the best one they've got now is from the problem of evil, but even it is quite solvable). But I guess I shouldn't complain about their problems. 
That's actually a very good point. Heresy can be either an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth, to generally accepted beliefs or standards, or both. Unlike the two examples below, the heresy in question is not just a dissent from some minor secondary doctrine--it's actually calling the God off the Bible a liar and, ultimately, nullifies Christ's purpose for dying on the cross.
ETA: Sorry 'bout the mini rant. |
No, but if you say the Homosexual lifestyle is not a valid one, then that could easily be conceived as "ant-homosexual". And this isn't about what people agreeing with Christianity -- it's about propositions. I actually agree that it is not anti-Christian per se, but it does imply that Christianity is a lie. |
Its easy to cross a line and be offensive in stating an honest opinion. I am not a Christian so to expect me to espouse Christian views 100% is foolish. In the same way, for me to expect you to agree with my religious views is foolish. It requires the person stating the opinion to offer it with good intentions and the person listening to the opinion to not carry a chip on his shoulder. One way to do this is to concentrate on the things we do agree on and let God worry about the things we don't agree on that don't directly affect one another. |
Fair enough, I guess. Also, I don't expect you to espouse Christian beliefs at all. I don't think I said or implied that anywhere. If I did, I didn't mean to. And don't worry, I wasn't offended by anything you said. When I suppressed belief in God I used to hang around in mostly Christian forums, and when I converted I hung around atheist/agnostic forums-- so I've developed some pretty thick skin. Just don't say anything about my mom . . . Take care. |