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Posted: 8/8/2006 8:40:18 PM EDT
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?

Link Posted: 8/8/2006 8:52:15 PM EDT
It's already happening in Chicago. The animals are getting away with murder.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 8:56:57 PM EDT
If there was no such thing as small town politics I think the police would be better feared/respected.

I know in the town I work for .....the mayor gave us free run...meaning there is no one we shouldnt ticket/arrest....it keeps people walking the straight and narrow....hell...I have arrested both the mayors nephew and even son!!!

In the town "next door" you would loose your job if you so much as thought about doing such a thing!!

I can do my job more efficiently when I dont have to worry about who I am dealing with.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 8:58:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?



It's been gone for at least 15 years!
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 9:44:03 PM EDT
There is very little fear or respect for the law here. There is very little punishment for committing a crime and the media will exagerate and villify the police to make a headline.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:04:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2006 10:05:45 PM EDT by HKocher]
Definitely gone where I work. I can drive around my beat in any given shift and get tons of taunts, cursing, insults, laughs, dancing (that was a weird one the first time I saw it), etc.

Why? Well, a couple factors:

Court system: DA's office is overworked so they refuse a lot of perfectly good cases. The juries are sympathetic to the criminals. Prisons are fully. So the criminals know they won't do time, and even if they do, it will very little time.

Pursuit policy: Can't chase, they know it, so why bother EVER stopping for the po-po?

Use of force: Spineless commanders, ambitious IAD, civilian review boards, lawsuits, etc. make officers think twice when they need to do what's necessary to keep themselves and their coworkers alive. If you shoot someone, they ask why you didn't taser them. Taser someone, and they ask why you didn't use impact weapons. Use impact weapons and they ask why you didn't use OC. Use OC and they ask why you didn't talk your way out of it or walk away from the situation.

Public opinion: They know the media will often defend them, they know the ACLU/NAACP/etc. will come to bat for them in certain circumstances. Certain members of their community will also support them.

Lots of other reasons, but those are the first to come to my head tonight.


On a side note, I don't think that people should 'fear' the police. People should definitely respect the police and the law, but I don't think fear is an appropriate response. I do think that criminals should fear the consequences if they break the law, maybe that's what you mean.
Link Posted: 8/8/2006 10:40:35 PM EDT
Under 35 have no respect for the police. Only do what we want because we CAN get them in trouble and sometimes going along with the program is easier (Some have learned).

There is no fear there. They comply out of self-interest, that's it.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 4:22:50 AM EDT
The kids in the current ghetto generation are out of control. Our public screwels (schools) are in shambles. There is no accountability for the actions of the youth. The juvenile system is a big fat joke. If I catch a juvy in a stolen car, I will debate with myself on letting the little bastard leave and just recover the vehicle because I know nothing will happen. Short of murder or Robbery with a gun, the juvenile detention center won't even hold the little holligans. I caught a 14 year old slinging 15 grams of crack last year... a federal amout. What happened? Nothing.

I think it starts there. There is a real social evil out there right now that only seems to be getting worse. Single, out of work mothers who have 15 kids because she will fuck any sweet talking crack fiend are more numerous than can count. They don't know where their kids are, and they don't care. Produces an irresponsible generation.

Parents and kids alike don't even know who they are hanging out with. The don't even know real names...
"Ma'am, can you tell me what you saw?"
"Yeah, I saw Pookie run up with a gun and shoot 'B' right in the chest and then run off."
"What is Pookie's name and where does he live?"
"I don't know, he's just Pookie."
"What is 'B's real name?"
"I don't know."

I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on....
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 7:37:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 7:52:29 AM EDT by highdraglowspeed]
Fear God yes.

Fear the police, only if you are a bad guy. Avg. Joe has no reason to fear the police.
Respect the police. Everyone should.

That being said. You should check out the Kidfrombrooklyn.com rant about how the people act around the police compared to yesteryear.

Check it out here. Don't Hot link it.

Strong language WARNING

http://www.mikecaracciolo.com/video_disp.asp?videoid=1067

http://www.mikecaracciolo.com/video_disp.asp?videoid=1014
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 5:41:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 5:44:23 PM EDT by Danger_Close]

Originally Posted By phylodog:
There is very little fear or respect for the law here. There is very little punishment for committing a crime and the media will exagerate and villify the police to make a headline.


Not to mention the members over in General Discussion. Lately it's gone from an informative, entertaining forum to a constant whining and LE bashing over minute details that may have been incorrectly reported to begin with. One genius actually admitted to smoking pot and posted: "It's none of their business how I choose to relax." These rants seem to conflict with a site that has instructions on it on how to become a law enforcement officer.

As for the generational comment, I'd see it all the time as a full time campus officer. Each new batch of students was a little more rude and undisciplined than the last. There was a hiccup after Sept. 11th and some people actually stopped me just to say 'thanks for doing your job'...but comments like that quickly faded.



Link Posted: 8/9/2006 7:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 7:58:58 PM EDT by yobo]
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.

Link Posted: 8/9/2006 9:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 9:21:32 PM EDT by spd2230]

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



You might want to take your attitude and name calling back to GD.

A "criminal" has no respect for the law or the police. The next best thing is fear. I really don't care if it is fear of me or fear of the court system. If you are a "criminal", and by criminal I mean someone who is going out of their way to flagrantly violate the law (I'm not talking about traffic or misdemeanors-ETA, unless you run), then yes, I hope you fear me.

The average person has no reason to fear the police no matter how many times someone wanders in from GD and throws out "Nazi Gastapos" or "JBT".

I truly think that if we were allowed to be the Police again instead of security guards/babysitters/feelgood handholders, etc. then the respect would return. We need to get rid of our hug-a-thug policies before it is too late.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 9:34:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2006 9:35:04 PM EDT by HKocher]

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



Oh no! I've never been called a Nazi by an ARFcommer before!

My feelings are hurt.
Link Posted: 8/9/2006 10:11:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spd2230:

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



You might want to take your attitude and name calling back to GD.

A "criminal" has no respect for the law or the police. The next best thing is fear. I really don't care if it is fear of me or fear of the court system. If you are a "criminal", and by criminal I mean someone who is going out of their way to flagrantly violate the law (I'm not talking about traffic or misdemeanors-ETA, unless you run), then yes, I hope you fear me.

The average person has no reason to fear the police no matter how many times someone wanders in from GD and throws out "Nazi Gastapos" or "JBT".

I truly think that if we were allowed to be the Police again instead of security guards/babysitters/feelgood handholders, etc. then the respect would return. We need to get rid of our hug-a-thug policies before it is too late.


Most "normal" people don't go around wanting others to fear them. People with low self-esteem or have over inflated ego may want people to fear them along with thugs and tyrants. If you like the fact the people fear you then I think you need help.

You use the term “respect” and “fear” as if they are same but they are not, they are very different. Your actions (usually in negative way) make people fear you but your positive actions build towards respect. You can’t demand respect from anyone, you earn respect and it’s built over time.

People, including the criminals, should not have fear of the police, only the judicial system and its punishment. People should fear the consequence of their action i.e. the judicial punishment but not the act of apprehension and it is the duty of the police to apprehend not to execute the punishment during apprehension. Police are not the judge, jury and the executioner. Of course it becomes a lot easier when you separate “us” from “them” and make “them” less of a citizen than “us” but history has shown that such thinking eventually leads to social collapse.

I’m sure you want respect from citizens as peace officer in the community just and I want respect from my peers for my ability and work in my company but it has to be earned. It took me years to earn the respect of my co-workers and my superiors but it was built over time and a lot of hard work. If you want respect from the citizens you’ll have to work at it too.

It’s easy to just blow me off as one of those liberal, criminal-hugging hippie but these issues are a lot more complicated than that. It’s a lot harder to think and analyzed the dynamics of situation out in the real world. Of course a lot of people just don't want to deal with because it is complex so it just get blown off.

Link Posted: 8/9/2006 11:07:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By spd2230:

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



You might want to take your attitude and name calling back to GD.

A "criminal" has no respect for the law or the police. The next best thing is fear. I really don't care if it is fear of me or fear of the court system. If you are a "criminal", and by criminal I mean someone who is going out of their way to flagrantly violate the law (I'm not talking about traffic or misdemeanors-ETA, unless you run), then yes, I hope you fear me.

The average person has no reason to fear the police no matter how many times someone wanders in from GD and throws out "Nazi Gastapos" or "JBT".

I truly think that if we were allowed to be the Police again instead of security guards/babysitters/feelgood handholders, etc. then the respect would return. We need to get rid of our hug-a-thug policies before it is too late.


Most "normal" people don't go around wanting others to fear them. People with low self-esteem or have over inflated ego may want people to fear them along with thugs and tyrants. If you like the fact the people fear you then I think you need help.

I never said I was "normal". I'm sure it is a self esteem or ego problem, but just maybe it is really about fear. If someone runs from the police what do they fear? Do they fear "me"? Do they fear our overtaxed court system? Are they just getting some exercise? When I say I hope they fear me I don't necessarily mean me specifically. Maybe that doesn't come through clearly on teh interweb.

You use the term “respect” and “fear” as if they are same but they are not, they are very different. Your actions (usually in negative way) make people fear you but your positive actions build towards respect. You can’t demand respect from anyone, you earn respect and it’s built over time.

No I don't. There should be a collective respect for the police built into society. While I seem to deal with the same people over and over, I don't really have the capability to "earn respect...over time" when I respond to a crime in progress.

People, including the criminals, should not have fear of the police, only the judicial system and its punishment. People should fear the consequence of their action i.e. the judicial punishment but not the act of apprehension and it is the duty of the police to apprehend not to execute the punishment during apprehension. Police are not the judge, jury and the executioner. Of course it becomes a lot easier when you separate “us” from “them” and make “them” less of a citizen than “us” but history has shown that such thinking eventually leads to social collapse.

You don't have a lot of experience with the judicial system, do you? I don't remember making any "us" and "them" comments. I also don't believe I claimed to be the "judge, jury and the executioner".

I’m sure you want respect from citizens as peace officer in the community just and I want respect from my peers for my ability and work in my company but it has to be earned. It took me years to earn the respect of my co-workers and my superiors but it was built over time and a lot of hard work. If you want respect from the citizens you’ll have to work at it too.

I covered this above, but I will say it again: I deal with people over and over, but I don't have time to "get to know them" when I show up and "Joe" is in the process of beating his wife for the 3rd time this month.


It’s easy to just blow me off as one of those liberal, criminal-hugging hippie but these issues are a lot more complicated than that. It’s a lot harder to think and analyzed the dynamics of situation out in the real world. Of course a lot of people just don't want to deal with because it is complex so it just get blown off.

I'm not quite sure what "It’s a lot harder to think and analyzed the dynamics of situation out in the real world." means, but I think you may be on the right track based on some of the words in that sentence.

I would suggest you read this: On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs

It isn't perfect, but Grossman does make some excellent points.

Link Posted: 8/10/2006 12:08:07 AM EDT
There is NO respect for the police here. They shot up several squad cars with an AR-15 the other day. A few days later an officer got jumped, they took his gun, shot up his squad car, and stole both. It does not help that our officers get indicted every other month for rolling dope boys. Man, that makes us look good . They see us as the same as them. You have no idea what the last officer did to the guy. People call with crap they would have gone to a family member or preacher 15 years ago to solve. Then wonder why it takes 2 hours to get to the call. Add to that the complete lack of respect for LE, the law, school, family, or society. Of course they have no fear for LE. What can we do to cause anyone to fear us these days?

Earn respect from them? Yeah, I said THEM. The people we deal with are not normal. The things they do are not normal. The stuff they call us for is so far beyond societies norms that it makes my head hurt every day.

Low self-esteem or over inflated ego? Try pity and apathy.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 4:19:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spd2230:


.....The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say......





Sounds like a good reason for us police to START USING THE POWERS WE ARE GIVEN, and FLEXING that badge instead of RESTRAINING it as we normally do.

If we let the public know the force/legal options that are available to us that we normally don't use (BUT LEGALLY COULD USE) out of courtesy to them, because we are trying to live up to the law enforcement code of ethics (...develop self-restraint...), etc. and we just plain started knuckling down on those types, and show 'em what's what....


Then maybe things would start to turn around.

I have been practicing my "zero tolerance for disrespect" policy for over a year at my department, since one of my closest friends was killed on a domestic dispute call that he responded to. He was shot twice at close range and his partner was also shot twice. Both officers died.

That friend's death changed me both personally and professionally - profoundly and forever.

For 10 years, I have been known in my community as officer "Smiley," because I smile a lot. I also have something of a reputation as "officer Friendly." I no longer am "Officer Friendly." The Officer Friendly that I once was, has become Officer SURVIVAL. Officer Survival takes no shit. I suspect that I am no longer as well-liked by certain segments of my community, because of the shift in my style of policing. But I have decided that I could be just as unlucky as my dead friend by continuing to be officer Friendly. I am still friendly, and I still show temperance when I am making enforcement decisions. But if you try me, you will get no reserve from me. I use what force I legally can, and bring ALL POSSIBLE CHARGES aginst you that I can. No leniency. No patience. No sympathy. I'm gonna let you know exactly whom and what you are fucking with.

Officers, think about the job you are doing, and the next time a non-believer challenges your office on the street, show them what they are messing with. Use all those options that are available to you. There is a time for restraint, and there is a time for making someone a believer.

Keep the faith.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 7:49:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By spd2230:

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



You might want to take your attitude and name calling back to GD.

A "criminal" has no respect for the law or the police. The next best thing is fear. I really don't care if it is fear of me or fear of the court system. If you are a "criminal", and by criminal I mean someone who is going out of their way to flagrantly violate the law (I'm not talking about traffic or misdemeanors-ETA, unless you run), then yes, I hope you fear me.

The average person has no reason to fear the police no matter how many times someone wanders in from GD and throws out "Nazi Gastapos" or "JBT".

I truly think that if we were allowed to be the Police again instead of security guards/babysitters/feelgood handholders, etc. then the respect would return. We need to get rid of our hug-a-thug policies before it is too late.


Most "normal" people don't go around wanting others to fear them. People with low self-esteem or have over inflated ego may want people to fear them along with thugs and tyrants. If you like the fact the people fear you then I think you need help.

You use the term “respect” and “fear” as if they are same but they are not, they are very different. Your actions (usually in negative way) make people fear you but your positive actions build towards respect. You can’t demand respect from anyone, you earn respect and it’s built over time.

People, including the criminals, should not have fear of the police, only the judicial system and its punishment. People should fear the consequence of their action i.e. the judicial punishment but not the act of apprehension and it is the duty of the police to apprehend not to execute the punishment during apprehension. Police are not the judge, jury and the executioner. Of course it becomes a lot easier when you separate “us” from “them” and make “them” less of a citizen than “us” but history has shown that such thinking eventually leads to social collapse.

I’m sure you want respect from citizens as peace officer in the community just and I want respect from my peers for my ability and work in my company but it has to be earned. It took me years to earn the respect of my co-workers and my superiors but it was built over time and a lot of hard work. If you want respect from the citizens you’ll have to work at it too.

It’s easy to just blow me off as one of those liberal, criminal-hugging hippie but these issues are a lot more complicated than that. It’s a lot harder to think and analyzed the dynamics of situation out in the real world. Of course a lot of people just don't want to deal with because it is complex so it just get blown off.



You are entitled to your opinion (cop bashing), but here is a cop response.

You're first mistake here is that you have not properly categorized yourself. If you are good citizen, obey the laws, keep to yourself, are respectful to others, look after your fellow man... why are you even concerned? You would have no readson to "fear" us at all... no reason to even look in our direction... no reason to even be worried, because we are not even looking at you or are concerned about you.

We look for suspicious activity. We jump out on people because they have done something to draw attention to themselves and we are taking a proactive approach to stop something before it happens. We stop people because they have broken the law. We investigate behaviors that are beyond the norm. And we lock them up or let them go. Period. If you do something beyond the norm, expect to get stopped and interviewed. If you broke the law, why expect a break? Expect a ticket or a booking. If you don't get either and are sent on your way... be happy with a bonus.

I stop many good people and give many good people breaks. Sometimes I give the not so good guy breaks... depends on how he is acting usually.

But there are many people out there that I have little to no tolerance for and give no breaks, no respect, and no slack to. Those are the out of work, social check receiving, no life, going no where, neighborhood destroying, self absorbed, dope slinging, gun toting, wife beating, stealing, property destroying, ghetto rat.

When I roll down the street in my beat, people scatter because they know my car and my face. They say, "Oh shit, here come Kujoe!" The neighborhood residents appreciate that... I get results, while wearing my "jack boots." Bad guy knows that I mean business every time I step out of my car. I only get called "DAWG" once by anyone.

If you wish to lump yourself into this same category, then you may have some problems. If you wish to embrace this brazened culture, I have a couple of neighborhoods that you might want to walk through. Walk up and introduce yourself to some of the "residents" that are sitting out on their (or someone elses) porches. See if you get a warm welcome. While you're at it, invite some of them to your neighborhood to live in, or better yet, invite them over to your house. Maybe you can change their attitude since we have done such a poor job of it.

The bottom line is that these people act like this because the can. They don't care because they know that the liberals are out there to protect them. No matter how terrible they act or what crime they commit (short of crime against a child), they will be embraced and WE are the blame for their actions. It was ok for them to run from us with a gun in the car and 20 pounds of powder cocaine, crash into a school bus full of children, kill three of them... all because they were scared of the police. As soon as his lawyer or him makes that comment on camera, it's "Oh, poor bad guy. It's the police's fault. Have you filed your complaint yet?" Forget about what was in the car and why they were being pursued in the first place, the liberal answer is... why didn't you let them go, officer? You could get them another time.

Just the other day, a completely justified police shooting occured in my town... the news called the dead bad guy (who was attempting to KILL an officer by the way) A F&^CKING VICTIM! WHERE HAVE WE GONE WRONG TO CALL THIS KIND OF SCUM A VICTIM?!
I would gain a whole lot of respect for you if you would go to a major large city and arrange for a ride along for a couple of days. Arm yourself with first hand knowledge and experience. You will see that it is much different than COPS. You just may come to appreciate what we go through and come to understand just a little.

Thank you, I'll hang up now and listen to your response.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 12:49:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2006 1:01:49 PM EDT by dpmsAP4]
So Yobo.....

If you have had an experience with a corrupt cop, I apologize on behalf of law enforcement. There is nothing worse than a criminal with a badge.

But if that's not the case, now, I'm going to open up myself up for attack by asking you:

WHOM in your family or circle of friends have "we" the police ARRESTED? Was it you?

(Please try to read the whole post before you reply.)


What do you have against the police?

Why the cop-bashing?

People who openly and publicly (and frequently) condemn the police (even if the police have done no wrong) USUALLY HAVE PERSONAL ISSUES WITH THE POLICE. Was it a speeding ticket? Or worse? What? You or your family?

If this is not the case, and you are a first class productive citizen, which you may well be, sir, then how about a simple "thank you," for the job that we do.

We're working for YOU, Yobo. Good cops don't forget that simple fact, and we don't want to run over you or any other citizen out there. "We" are out there to protect you from the criminal element. But our work is different from any other work. Sometimes we operate in a manner that you may not understand, and you criticize. We understand. But please, criticize in a positive manner. "We" receive any constructive criticism well.

"We" walked in your shoes (those of a citizen) for at least 21 years before "we" assumed the responsibilities of a law enforcement officer. "We" have been, and still are, in your shoes.

Please try to put yourself in ours before you judge.
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 2:06:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2006 6:10:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?



Just to get things straight, I assume that you are refering to the less deseriable elements of society? I am not LEO, but have two friends that are. One a Detective and the other a Captain, so I have no hatred for cops. That said if you were refering to the scum bags then I think your post was taken wrong by most non LEO's who read it?
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 6:32:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2006 10:15:35 AM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By P08:

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?



Just to get things straight, I assume that you are refering to the less deseriable elements of society? I am not LEO, but have two friends that are. One a Detective and the other a Captain, so I have no hatred for cops. That said if you were refering to the scum bags then I think your post was taken wrong by most non LEO's who read it?


Agreed. Please tell me that the word in blue should be transliterated as "criminals", rather than referring to the general populace.

ETA: From the other thread...


Originally Posted By spd2230:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I think you might be perceiving it wrong.

There was a time when citizens respected police officers. Kids obeyed the direction of cops, and citizens didn't hassle them. Criminals also feared them. Two bit thugs were not as likely to attack and kill a police officer in those days. Only the most hardened criminals.

Today it is different. People routinely disrespect police officers and criminals will kill a cop without a second thought.

That, I think, is what is being lamented. I don't know of any cops who want honest people to be afraid of them.


As the author of the thread in question I believe I can say:

Ding, ding, ding!!!! We have a winner!

...I always treat decent people well. Even most of the folks I take to jail tell me thank you, no shit. However, if you want to ass up, then I can and will fix you. The original thread was not about the police being almighty, it was about the state of our society. Since many of you don't have frequent interaction with some of the questionable members of our society I can appreciate the fact that you may have no idea what I am talking about.

It would be nice if you could be honest with yourselves and admit it instead of slapping on the tinfoil and reading into and cherry picking portions of a post.


Sorry 'bout that.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 11:04:57 AM EDT
I know of atleast 2 boys that are 1 and 2 years old that will have respect for adults, and people of authority....you guys do your job and I will do mine as a responsiable parent.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 1:43:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
I know of atleast 2 boys that are 1 and 2 years old that will have respect for adults, and people of authority....you guys do your job and I will do mine as a responsiable parent.


Here Here. Good post. Best of luck to you. You will be a good example for your sons to follow. 1st step in bringing back civility and decency to our country.

May they live long and prosper.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 2:00:18 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
I know of atleast 2 boys that are 1 and 2 years old that will have respect for adults, and people of authority....you guys do your job and I will do mine as a responsiable parent.


Is this so hard of an idea for people to get? Like ShingleMonkey, I have a child (2 yrs) and she will be raised to respect and appreciate the police just as I was raised.

I have found (I know this may sound shocking) that when I have to deal with an officer, and I treat him/her with courtesy and respect, I tend to get the same treatment back from them.

I would also like to say thank you to all you LEO's out there for the difficult jobs y'all do!
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 4:34:31 PM EDT
Just today I watched as a 4 yr old rode his bike right into busy traffic and almost got mushed. His two older brothers were trying to stop him. Thank god the two oncoming vehicles saw what was about to happen and slowed down soon enough to stop. Many motorists are not that observant. I followed them home and asked the older boys to bring he and a parent back out. I was dreading the possible outcome of a parent yelling at me for "picking" on their little boy. I however, have one the same age and can not let the lax parenting and disrespectful style parents keep me from doing the job I am supposed to do. To my surprise, the mother was very appreciative for the heads up on her son and I don't think he will be doing that again any time soon. I commended all of them for wearing bike helmets as few kids do around here. The mother told me they just moved here from a Military Base and it was mandatory there. So, I left there place with a glimmer of hope the good parents will someday out number the poor ones.
Link Posted: 8/11/2006 5:03:57 PM EDT

In two generations fear/respect of the police will be gone...



Americans should never have to fear our Policemen. Period. When we reach that point, someone needs to hit reset on the whole damn system/country.

I agree respect is gone, respect that was there when I was a kid, across the board.

Funny thing, in those days most officers wore shirts and ties, now they mostly wear fatigues. I wonder if there is any correlation there?

Link Posted: 8/11/2006 6:03:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
I know of atleast 2 boys that are 1 and 2 years old that will have respect for adults, and people of authority....you guys do your job and I will do mine as a responsiable parent.



This is a great post. You police bashers need to read this post and then read it again.

I am sick and tired of kids doing dumb kid stuff and then crying to me telling me that it's a special crime because they were yelled at by an adult. I was taught by my parents to respect adults. How can we expect people to respect any kind of authority when they are taught to disrespect all adults by their parents?

Link Posted: 8/12/2006 12:04:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2006 12:08:48 AM EDT by jeager001]

Originally Posted By CavVet:

In two generations fear/respect of the police will be gone...



Americans should never have to fear our Policemen. Period. When we reach that point, someone needs to hit reset on the whole damn system/country.

I agree respect is gone, respect that was there when I was a kid, across the board.

Funny thing, in those days most officers wore shirts and ties, now they mostly wear fatigues. I wonder if there is any correlation there?



If you are a law abiding citizen sure. We're totally on your side and you have absolutely nothing to fear. Just respect how we do our jobs. I didn't fear the police one bit as a kid, but I was also doing nothing wrong. I did respect them to a high degree.
If someone is considering fighting me. I want them to fear me. Maybe they won't do it then. If they are contemplating a criminal act, if the respect isn't there, fear works for me if it keeps them from committing that crime. I don't care what they are scared of just as long as they don't commit that crime.

I want to go to a jumpsuit type uniform because of the people that seem to still feel the need to fight me, spit on me, throw stuff at me, run from me in all sorts of horrible terrain while I wear the more traditional uniform. You can still look professional and have a functional uniform. IMO the traditional uniform is lacking in many areas of functionality and comfort.
So, no, I personally don't think there is a correlation there.
Link Posted: 8/12/2006 7:56:31 AM EDT
Jumpsuit uniforms, or as my Agnecy allows, BDU's take a lot more abuse when you are searching a vehicle for drugs, fighting a suspect, or just day in, day out abuse.

I was always taught to be respectful to all adults (except those that did not merit respect by their actions). I never had a problem with the Police as a kid. I treated them with respect and they treated me in kind. I do the same now, when a kid acts respectful and then I treat them the same way.

Fear is only used against a suspect when they are getting it in their head fight/flight. That usually entails them having broken the law in the first place. Or an overactive guilty conscience, if they even have a conscience.

Ken
Link Posted: 8/12/2006 1:35:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2006 1:39:01 PM EDT by ChickenKiller]

Originally Posted By yobo:
Back in the old days when I was a kid growing up, neighborhood officers were not feared, they were respected. Today officers want people to fear them? WTF? I think you guys would have made perfect Nazi Gastapos. And you wonder why so many people look upon the police as JBT?

Oh, if you think fear and respect for LEO are samething then you are an idiot.



Gastapos killed innocent people, they showed no mercy. They did not care age, or gender. They Killed Innocent people. On religious/racial basis, no other reason.

Yobo you make my blood boil hot. Punk, I'd try to explain to you the times I have cut breaks to people that did not deserve them, but you won't listen. I'd try to tell you how many people I have had to notify a loved one is dead, but you won't listen.

Go ahead, call us when you get your car keyed, or something goes bump in the dark. Aien't a cop in here that will disagree with the next satement:

The Guys like you that complain the most about us, are the guys that call us to take care of stuff that any real man could handle.

I got kicked out of GD for calling some folks a slang term for homosexual, they were bashing us in there so I took a stand and got my account locked.**

**Yes I was in direct violation of COC General Guidelines and agree that I was 100% out of line.
1.) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature.

You make it plain that you do not like police officers, so the ONLY reason you came into this forum titled (Brothers of the Shield) was to post derogatory comments toward us.........Ironic that your account is not being locked right now by one of the moderators? Why not? Used to seeing people like you act like you are acting.

ETA: Cool, I read on, looks like you got a warning, good thing the Gastapo did not get you, they would of shut your account down.

Sorta goes with my last origional line huh? Thanks NorCal
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 9:35:12 AM EDT
I think once again some "peanut butter eater" has no insight on what some of us LEO don't consider to explain in our understanding of our concepts.

Respect: Given to the lawful authority granted to the Governing Body, the Officers that enforce that authority and for the system of law supported by the population.

Fear: Of the CONSEQUENCES!! Going to jail, getting placed on death row, getting jackhammered in prison when you didn't get "soap on a rope" for Christmas.

The fear of the police that is mentioned is for the immediate consequences of trying to harm or kill us for protecting the public that is apparently occupied by overly sensitive dolts. I'm GOING to use whatever force I need to in order to go home at the end of my shift. Treat me nice, I'll be nice. Treat me poorly, I won't be so nice. Try to hurt me and you'll find me a horribly vicious and violent opponent.

Someone send the tin-foil hat wearer a new batch of Reynolds so he'll feel better.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:31:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmoth:
I think once again some "peanut butter eater" has no insight on what some of us LEO don't consider to explain in our understanding of our concepts.

Respect: Given to the lawful authority granted to the Governing Body, the Officers that enforce that authority and for the system of law supported by the population.

Fear: Of the CONSEQUENCES!! Going to jail, getting placed on death row, getting jackhammered in prison when you didn't get "soap on a rope" for Christmas.

The fear of the police that is mentioned is for the immediate consequences of trying to harm or kill us for protecting the public that is apparently occupied by overly sensitive dolts. I'm GOING to use whatever force I need to in order to go home at the end of my shift. Treat me nice, I'll be nice. Treat me poorly, I won't be so nice. Try to hurt me and you'll find me a horribly vicious and violent opponent.

Someone send the tin-foil hat wearer a new batch of Reynolds so he'll feel better.


+1..... hey yobo.....
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 10:44:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2006 10:44:50 AM EDT by PBIR]
We covered this topic in a CJA class I took in the spring and while this isn't totally in line with my professor's beliefs I think you can blame the majority of loss of respect on two things: 1) unprofessional police behavior and 2) instant repeated coverage of incidents caused by #1 via 24 hr a day mass media.

Can't really do anything about #2 so you better focus on reducing/eliminating #1.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 12:10:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
We covered this topic in a CJA class I took in the spring and while this isn't totally in line with my professor's beliefs I think you can blame the majority of loss of respect on two things: 1) unprofessional police behavior and 2) instant repeated coverage of incidents caused by #1 via 24 hr a day mass media.

Can't really do anything about #2 so you better focus on reducing/eliminating #1.


Yep #1 really undermines everyone. Just like some turd who takes a gun to school and blasts his classmates. Now every law abiding gun owner is labeled as a child killer, along with Mr. Turd.

Ignorance is BLISS they say.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 2:38:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2006 2:39:57 PM EDT by HKocher]

Originally Posted By jeager001:

Originally Posted By CavVet:
Funny thing, in those days most officers wore shirts and ties, now they mostly wear fatigues. I wonder if there is any correlation there?

I want to go to a jumpsuit type uniform because of the people that seem to still feel the need to fight me, spit on me, throw stuff at me, run from me in all sorts of horrible terrain while I wear the more traditional uniform. You can still look professional and have a functional uniform. IMO the traditional uniform is lacking in many areas of functionality and comfort.
So, no, I personally don't think there is a correlation there.


I wear the traditional button up blouse (short sleeve in summer, long sleeve w/ tie in winter) and poly/wool blend trousers. Oh, and I got leather gear and shiny brass.

Does it look sharp in the morning when it's nice and pressed and clean? Sure. But how do you think it looks at the end of the day after I've been running, fighting, sweating, searching, etc? Those types of uniforms tear easier, and get dirty quicker.

I'm a 'working' cop, and I'd prefer a more functional uniform. It can still be made to look nice and professional, but at the same time it would be more durable, more comfortable, and more functional. I'd kill for some nylon duty gear to shed a couple pounds off my belt.

But anyway, enough of the thread hijack, the whole 'cops in BDUs' debate has been done to death in GD.
Link Posted: 8/14/2006 2:40:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?



My only fear is from folks who either dont know how to do their jobs, or are off the map.

If you want folks to fear you, you need to look for another line of work.

Link Posted: 8/20/2006 9:39:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2006 9:40:41 AM EDT by Group9]
It actually should be, "no respect for the law, and no fear of the consequences for not obeying the law."

People today are taught that there is nothing that they can do that is their fault, and that no matter what consequences their actions have, there is no connection to their own acts, and they have no responsibility.

And, there are a lot of kids who are going to prison, who probably wouldn't have had to if someone had held them responsbible for things when younger.

By the time we get one, and he says, "You need to call my daddy to come staighten this out," like he has all of the times his teachers, or other adults tried to control him, they are so far gone that they still don't really think they are going to get punished, even as they are being put in the holding cell.

Then they come back at sentencing and they are crying like babies because for the first time in their lives, they are being held responsible for their actions, and it it going to be to go to prison for ten years.

And, it didn't have to happen.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:30:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Group9:
It actually should be, "no respect for the law, and no fear of the consequences for not obeying the law."

People today are taught that there is nothing that they can do that is their fault, and that no matter what consequences their actions have, there is no connection to their own acts, and they have no responsibility.

And, there are a lot of kids who are going to prison, who probably wouldn't have had to if someone had held them responsbible for things when younger.

By the time we get one, and he says, "You need to call my daddy to come staighten this out," like he has all of the times his teachers, or other adults tried to control him, they are so far gone that they still don't really think they are going to get punished, even as they are being put in the holding cell.

Then they come back at sentencing and they are crying like babies because for the first time in their lives, they are being held responsible for their actions, and it it going to be to go to prison for ten years.

And, it didn't have to happen.


IMO there is a lot of truth to that. It is basically the same thing I told my wife when we began to discuss child discipline as she was pregnant. Too many parents let their children get away with stuff that they should be spanked for.

Further, when are we as a country going to stand up and force the system to recognize that this little "experiment" of removing physical punishment from the public school system has not just failed, but failed miserably?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:54:04 AM EDT
Alright, without really reading in-depth all the posts so far, and as a poster who is routinely called a cop lover on this board, I will say this...

I do not fear anyone in the law enforcement community, nor will I ever. Your job is not to strike fear in the citizenry of your jurisdiction. I dont care if the citizenry includes good guys like myself, or thugs and shitheads like I routinely encounter in everyday life. The laws of the land are whats meant to strike fear, not you. If you think your job is to strike fear, than you are not a peace officer.

A good friend of mine, who is with the Dallas County Sheriffs Office once told me, "Every cop should ask him or herself this one question, what am I, am I a peace officer, or a law enforcement officer. If you answer the latter, you shouldnt be in this business". Now to many this may seem anti-cop or whatever, but it really isnt. When growing up in the 80's, whenever I was introduced to a new policeman, it was always, Brian...this peace officer so and so of the so and so police department/sheriff/constable office, etc. In the 90's, I saw the gradual change in attitude. In the 90's it was a mixture of "this is peace officer so and so" to "<interupt> I am law enforcement officer so and so, I'm a cop". Now, all I can say is its been years since I've been introduced to a true peace officer. It bothers the shit outta me.

Now, when it comes to respect, it is a bit different. I grew up under the teachings of my family that everyone must earn respect, their title matters not. This will not change, and is being taught to my daughter. I will not tolerate, nor will respect a rude cop. It just isnt happening. The badge on your chest means you've taken an oath. That oath doesnt say, be a cocky brat to the citizery in which you serve, it says things like I will uphold the law and protect the citizenry of whatever municipality you serve. The only problem is alot of the new recruits, even cops with as much as 5 years, either dont remember their oath, or just said it to get it out of the way. That is wrong. Bottom line, you dont get respect because you chose to wear a badge, it will get you points, but your attitude is what earns it. The same holds true in other fields of work.

I am not anti-cop, and many of you that are cops know this. Remember the thread I started after the one where the Dallas cop put that roller derby girl on the ground? Remember the shit I took for that? Through it all I backed the cop, he isnt much of a cop according to a few I know who served with him, but he still did right. I never waivered and still dont, all the name calling in the thread and in IMs, I stood my ground. So if you take what I have said earlier in this post, perhaps you do need to step back, and ask yourself that question.

Oh, and as forcops wearing BDUs, wonderful idea. Just not camo or black....police blue, which tends to be what most agencies use. The days of the "suit" as I call it, should be over.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:56:08 AM EDT
You are correct, but for a different reason than you think. The Police are losing the support of their traditional allies: The middle class.

As a result of too many bs laws and too much enforcement.
The traditional law abiding patriotic American has been made to feel like he lives in a police state, and so, cannot help but feel suspicious of the system, and yes, even a little sympathetic to the "dirtbags". This leads directly to the Overly PC ROE, oversight, and sucessful lawsuits.

Obviously, I can't speak for every taxpayer, but IMHO, the LE community in this country has a major PR problem.


Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:17:15 AM EDT
I don't respect police if they expect me to fear them.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 6:13:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xrp:
I don't respect police if they expect me to fear them.


I don't want you to have to fear me but if you don't respect the office, laws or society in general, then fear me you will. As stated many times before, honest people need not fear. Dishonest (criminal) persons who prey upon the honest have already shown a disrespect for society and as one of it's watchdogs I will be forced to bite. I take EVERY incident on it's own merit and will treat as I am treated, I always start off on a good foot. Most of the time it is reciprocated, but if not then the Governor pays me to be the biggest asshat you've ever met. Along every one of us sworn to do what most think of a distasteful. I love the public, criminal scum do not fit into that category. By the By, in an interview with convicted cop killers the FBI determined the number one cause of death among our deceased brothers was allowing the scum the inch that turned into the mile. So if you CAN'T respect me ( it's not me it's really society you're disrespecting) then you should fear me ( again not me personally ) if not that then we got a problem, and I've had success at dealing with those so far. If you think I'm a wet behind the ears twenty something ( no denegration guys) think again, nearly 19 years on the job, 17 of which on the road with 9 of those in K9, with UC work thrown in for good measure ( not to mention being married to the biggest bitch I've ever met). Been there, done it and dealt with the full spectrum of people . Most of whom love my style of work, some hate it....oh well, they've got records now. would say they're in jail; but we all know better than that.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:47:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Baker3C81:

Originally Posted By xrp:
I don't respect police if they expect me to fear them.


I don't want you to have to fear me but if you don't respect the office, laws or society in general, then fear me you will.
As stated many times before, honest people need not fear. Dishonest (criminal) persons who prey upon the honest have already shown a disrespect for society and as one of it's watchdogs I will be forced to bite. I take EVERY incident on it's own merit and will treat as I am treated, I always start off on a good foot. Most of the time it is reciprocated, but if not then the Governor pays me to be the biggest asshat you've ever met. Along every one of us sworn to do what most think of a distasteful. I love the public, criminal scum do not fit into that category. By the By, in an interview with convicted cop killers the FBI determined the number one cause of death among our deceased brothers was allowing the scum the inch that turned into the mile. So if you CAN'T respect me ( it's not me it's really society you're disrespecting) then you should fear me ( again not me personally ) if not that then we got a problem, and I've had success at dealing with those so far. If you think I'm a wet behind the ears twenty something ( no denegration guys) think again, nearly 19 years on the job, 17 of which on the road with 9 of those in K9, with UC work thrown in for good measure ( not to mention being married to the biggest bitch I've ever met). Been there, done it and dealt with the full spectrum of people . Most of whom love my style of work, some hate it....oh well, they've got records now. would say they're in jail; but we all know better than that.


What a pile of garbage this quoted post is.

The wearing of a badge does not, and should never, mean you automatically get respect. Even with a badge on, you must still earn the respect you believe you are due. To think otherwise is disregarding what it means to be a cop.

"I dont want you to fear me but if you dont respect the office, laws or society, then fear me you will". Get real. You are not hired on to instill fear, or expect respect, you are hired on, and took an oath to protect the citizenry. It matters not if that person is as clean as they come, or is prior criminal, we are all citizens.

"Most of the time it is reciprocated, but if not then the governor pays me to be the biggest asshat you've ever met". Jeez. First off, I dunno what state you are in, but you damn sure arent piad by your governor, you are paid by the citizenry of your jurisdiction. Anyone who pays that tax, matters not if they are good or bad, is your boss. Like it or not. You are not paid to be an "asshat" when your feelings are hurt and you've been disrespected. You are paid to uphold the laws of the land in which you serve.

"So if you cant respect me, then you should fear me"? Are you serious? And you wonder why there is a problem here on arfcom with people calling cops JBTs? Again, the wearing of the badge doesnt gurantee respect, the way you carry yourself, when/how you apply things like the golden rule, what you do daily is how you get and earn respect.



Sorry guys, but I have to say, with things like the above stated, do you honestly wonder why there is such a bias on arfcom, especially GD? Youy want people, whether they are bad or not to fear you/ You want people to automatically respect you because you wear a badge? I just dont get it. You're tired of all the JBT'isms (and so am I) but you turn out or say things like the above. It doesnt help your cause, but it does cripple it.

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 1:27:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 2:19:34 AM EDT by NorseBoy]

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?


Your job is to protect and serve, not make us fear you! This is America, not Nazi Germany. I am not calling you a Nazi, but you should be careful about how you use the word respect/fear (It's a little scary). JMHO.
BTW... most LEOs are good people. You have a very hard job, and I thank you for doing it. But you don't have to make me fear you to earn my respect. I already respect you for your bravery and self-sacrifice.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 2:30:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 2:31:40 AM EDT by ElCamino]

Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:


You can lead a horse to water, etc....

The biggest problem is that like every other profession, cops are people, and most people are stupid. Stupid isn't always a bad thing - it's part of the human condition - and most of the time it doesn't cause any problems. Sometimes it does.

*shrug*
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:03:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 4:23:10 AM EDT by jdmpimp]

Originally Posted By spd2230:
Where I work some people still respect/fear the police, but if they are under 35 or so that doesn't necessarily apply.

I always love dealing with Joe Dirtbag with mom and or dad present. Mom/dad "know"(old school, here's your beat down) that the police will do what is necessary to make Joe comply and will loudly call for Joe to comply voluntarily.

The problem is that Joe knows the police, to a certain degree, don't have any teeth, with IA/lawsuits/civilian review panels, etc.

I honestly believe that in two generations we will no longer have the psychological advantage that we are the police and you need to do what we say.

Am I crazy? Or has our super duper PC society made our job that much more difficult/dangerous out of "respect" for gangbangers/criminals/thugs?


I agree 100% with what you say. As a matter of fact LVMPD(Las Vegas Metro) has had to step things up due to lack of compliance and has has a recent string of suspect shootings. My buddy who lives there told me that the PD have killed about 1 bad guy a week over the past few months.

Here is a sample VIDEO of the element in Vegas that are being dealt with:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtJDWqUyjwo
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:29:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:23:30 AM EDT
You earn respect. If the fuzz lose our respect, it's because they did not earn it. Who can support JBTs with masks breaking into homes and terrifying or killing innocents while attacking the wrong home and then the DA says too bad? How about faking evidence? How about unarming innocent citizens in NOLA trying to defend their homes? How about testifying and giving interviews that no one needs an AR15 or AK? How about refusing to sign a Form 4 because no one needs a MG or suppressor even though they are legal?

The list goes on and on. They are bringing it on themselves.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:36:44 AM EDT
Fear the police? Why should citizens fear the police?

I can understand respect, but it has to be earned.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 10:37:22 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Multiple violations.
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