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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/30/2004 8:54:08 AM EST
What would you take for anti-bear defense? I personally want a .44 Mag, but seems NaziStone thinks us commoners are too dumb to pack heat into the fucking WILDERNESS and would prefer we become bear food. So, I *could* take a pistol but it'd be on me if I got caught. Since confiscation of my gun and a fine doesnt seem like a whole lot of fun what are my options?
Chance it with the handcannon and feel comfortable?
Pick up some bear spray? (Does this shit even WORK?)

I personally would lean towards chance the handcannon, because scaring a bear away with a bottle of frickin PEPPER spray just doesnt seem like a career move to me.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:55:38 AM EST
i'd chance it. i never go in the woods without protection.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:57:53 AM EST
Take the gun.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:57:54 AM EST
I’d skip Yellowstone and hike for 5 days in the national forests or BLM land where firearms are legal.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:02:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By markl32:
I’d skip Yellowstone and hike for 5 days in the national forests or BLM land where firearms are legal.



I didnt know firearms were legal in any national parks!!
Links? Names? HELP ME HERE MAN!!

I'm pretty sure I'd chance it because I would be taking my wife and 8 year old daughter. I'll take my chances with spray with my own life, but come down to the lives of my wife and kids....Well, ole Uncle Sams fines and punishment for packing seem aweful slight in comparison to the potential options.......
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:06:22 AM EST
National Forest = guns okay

National Parks = no guns


Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:14:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ridge:
National Forest = guns okay

National Parks = no guns





Ahh, ok. Off to google!
Thanks
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:15:59 AM EST
Probably nothing. I've chanced across bears ONCE in all the times I've gone hiking/camping, and we bolted in opposite directions the second we saw each other.

Keep your food away from your camp, and you should be ok. Unless you're really really unlucky.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:21:23 AM EST
When my dad and I used to go hiking we would ALWAYS bring both a .44 mag and .45. He unfortunately got to carry the .44 though. I dont know how you would get caught anyway unless you were waving the thing around.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:22:32 AM EST
If that super-volcano blows while you're there - try to take some good close-up pictures



Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:24:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
If that super-volcano blows while you're there - try to take some good close-up pictures




I'll keep that in mind as the pits of Hell are spewing up around me...
"Must take pics for Arfcom!"... "Here honey, hold my beer and get a picture of THIS!"

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:25:03 AM EST
When you are alone out there in the wilderness, you will come to the conclusion real quickly that there is no authority on earth that can take away your God-given right to protect yourself.

I'd chance it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:25:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 9:26:53 AM EST by jchewie]
There are a bunch of bears in Yellowstone. Watched a two year old griz eating ants in a field not 75 yards from me and about 200 other tourists. This was in the immediate vicinity of the lake and a bunch of cabins. Hard sided campers only in the campgrounds - not sure about back country. You may fare better in the wilderness.

Bear bells (dinner bells) or other forms of making noise are encouraged.

Bear spray is encouraged.

Taking a 44 and camping (smartly - food away and downhill/downwind from camp) in a national forest away from bears that view campsites as food sources is most encouraged.

Have fun!

Edited to add - if you are set on camping in Yellowstone, take all of the above.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:27:42 AM EST
I vote for the biggest fucking revolver you can pack discreetly.

If you are truly in the BC, nobody will be able to tell where the shot came from with all the echoes from hills/trees/mountains/etc.

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:28:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
If that super-volcano blows while you're there - try to take some good close-up pictures




I'll keep that in mind as the pits of Hell are spewing up around me...
"Must take pics for Arfcom!"... "Here honey, hold my beer and get a picture of THIS!"





Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:29:18 AM EST
Leave the canolli, take the gun.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:37:27 AM EST
I pack a 3 1/2" barrel Vaquero in .45 long colt.

I'd rather be arrested, fined and ALIVE than be facing a bad cituation unprepared.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:40:18 AM EST
Glock 20 with full Power Hunting Loads
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:43:01 AM EST
if you take pepper spray, only use it if they're attacking or close to you.

people tried to use it as a repellant on their tents and around their camp, like mosquito repellant, and it actually attracts bears. but if you spray their nose, they will most likely go away.

most likely.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:45:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
If that super-volcano blows while you're there - try to take some good close-up pictures




I'll keep that in mind as the pits of Hell are spewing up around me...
"Must take pics for Arfcom!"... "Here honey, hold my beer and get a picture of THIS!"




That would probably be one of the ultimate "Hold my beer and watch this" moments.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 10:48:31 AM EST
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:28:24 PM EST
If it was me, I'ld have my 5.5"stainless Vaquero in 45 with Cor-Bons AND follow all the rules and suggestion regarding food, smellables, etc. If you never use it, you will have no problems, nobody knows it's there.

If you do use it, it will be only after following all the recommendations and at least one pepper spray attempt, or it's actually chomping on somebody. If you've done that, a jury trial by the locals should be no issue. But if you use it there better not be any other option available and any that weren't used.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:34:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 1:12:07 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Leave the canolli, take the gun.


That could be the most appropriate use of that quote outside the movie I've ever seen.


Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:54:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By markl32:
I’d skip Yellowstone and hike for 5 days in the national forests or BLM land where firearms are legal.



+1
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:58:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
I vote for the biggest fucking revolver you can pack discreetly.




A bear suitable handgun, carried anywhere you can get to it fast enough to do you any good, will be immediately spotted by the first park ranger you encounter, and 10,000 tourist.

Go to yellowstone with a 44mag you will get arrested.

Go to yellowstone without a 44mag, you most likely will not get attacked by a bear.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:06:56 PM EST
I have hiked in Yellowstone a bunch, but always day hikes. In any event, I always take a gun. It is reasonably accessible, but not visible. You are not going to be searched and if it is not visible - no problem. Killing a bear with it - now that would be a problem. However, I made the decision that my life and that of family members was much more important than following the federal edict. My $0.02.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:10:01 PM EST
Bears rarely attack people.


From 1980 to 1997, over 47 million people visited Yellowstone National Park (YNP). During the same period, 23 people were injured by bears. The chance of being injured by a bear while in the park is approximately 1 in 2.1 million.



Bear mauling stats


They're not as evil as people want to believe. Sometimes, they do the dumbest things!

Polar Bear Chews on Submarine




I'd worried more about getting arrested for illegally packing...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:14:03 PM EST
Get a Dan Wesson .445 super mag. I had one in a comped 4" barrel, no kick but it was all power!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:35:41 PM EST
Take both !

the handcannon for the bear

the OC spray for if they try and find the handcannon

AND RUN !!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:52:19 PM EST
If you choose a Bear Repellent, I would choose the one that says 454 Casull on the barrel.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:12:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:27:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?




A handgun carried anyplace it would not be detected by tourist or park rangers is going to be too slow to deploy to do any good in a bear attack.
Even a handgun openly carried in a belt holster is going to be little protection at best.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:33:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 2:35:11 PM EST by Adam_White]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?




A handgun carried anyplace it would not be detected by tourist or park rangers is going to be too slow to deploy to do any good in a bear attack.
Even a handgun openly carried in a belt holster is going to be little protection at best.



By this logic, concealed carry is a waste of time, too.

I am quite confident I could conceal something out of sight and still get to it awful quick - isn't that the whole idea of concealed carry?

Besides, once you hit the backcountry, you will see or hear anyone else coming from a ways out - carry the fucker in the open if you must.

Kerry and company keep complaing our National Parks are understaffed - I doubt park rangers will be snooping around in the backcountry when the big headaches are Mr. and Mrs. Soccermom and her trailer at the established campgrounds they can drive to.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:42:16 PM EST
well, dead, maimed, eaten hikers wont care later on if they didnt go packing while hiking...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:47:14 PM EST
With animals as with humans, situations demanding you draw a weapon and fire it to deter or stop an attack develop rapidly. If you've got to dig around in a pack or even a fanny pack to get your defense tool, you ain't gonna make it.

But an open holster is out too since you would technically be illegal to carry in the Park and advertising that you are breaking the law is just plain dumb.

So if you regularly carry in a gunnysack type carrier, carry what you normally carry in that system and don't get caught apart from it.

Be aware that if anyone you are out hiking near realizes you've got a gun, they may narc you out, then you should AT Least expect to get ejected from the park, the gun confiscated and probably charges filed.

All that said, I would go with the bear spray. You can wear that openly.

BTW, get two cans for each person in the party and use one up practicing. You DO NOT want to be fumbling around trying to figure the damned thing out when a 1000 pound grizzly, or even a pissed off 300 pound black bear comes a charging.

All that said. I spent 6 months in the woods hiking through thick black bear country and never saw a single one except in the Bear Mountain Zoo. If you keep food, toiletries, etc. hanging in a bear bag well away from camp (and even bag your cooking utensils and possibly even the clothes you cooked in, you should be fine. Don't eat where you sleep is the basic advice. Underarm deodorant (why would you even bother taking that? toothepaste, soap, etc. all smells like food to bears, so treat it like food). One way to go is to eat a bit earlier in the day then walk another quarter mile or so to where you plan on sleeping. Bag your food and stuff, and go to bed. Don't let other people be unsafe either. If you are sharing a camping area with someone else and they insist on being stupid, get the heck out of there.

Search the web for hiking and bears, or bear bagging, or bear precautions and you should find ample solid advice that should prevent any need for a firearm.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:49:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?




A handgun carried anyplace it would not be detected by tourist or park rangers is going to be too slow to deploy to do any good in a bear attack.
Even a handgun openly carried in a belt holster is going to be little protection at best.



By this logic, concealed carry is a waste of time, too.




Only if you believe the average mugger is as fast and powerfull as the average bear. You will have significantly more warning, and time to react to an attack by a human than an attack by a bear.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:50:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?




A handgun carried anyplace it would not be detected by tourist or park rangers is going to be too slow to deploy to do any good in a bear attack.



Negative. Bad assumptions all around that statement. First off, tourists and park rangers aren't looking for concealed weapons. Second, there are many imaginative ways to carry guns concealed yet leave them easy to get at.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:56:16 PM EST
I've done a couple 10 day backpacking trips into Yellostone. First of all you must stay in designated campspots(in the backcountry) and keep to the trails. You must purchase a backcountry camping permit with your itinerary laid out. You must hang your food so high, so many feet away from your campspot, blah,blah,blah....There are many backcountry rangers on horseback and your chances of seeing a ranger is actually pretty good.
Any crimes commited inside Yellostone are subject to FEDERAL penalties, as it is federal property.
I have had only one meeting with a grizzly, came around a bank and WHOA! No more than 15 feet away was the griz. We were both startled and went in opposite directions, quick. I was carrying a 160z. can of pepper spray on my hip. I would not of had time to spray the bear if it wanted to charge me nor would I of had time to unholster a pistol.
I would not carry a gun into Yellostone, but that is just me. Pepperspray is the next best thing, and no, I have not actually tried it on a bear.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:57:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Taking guns into national parks is a big no-no.

Your chances of getting butt fooked in the Fed Pen are better than being attacked by a Yellowstone Griz.

CRC



Really? How do you think they would find out assuming he didn't tell them?




A handgun carried anyplace it would not be detected by tourist or park rangers is going to be too slow to deploy to do any good in a bear attack.



Negative. Bad assumptions all around that statement. First off, tourists and park rangers aren't looking for concealed weapons. Second, there are many imaginative ways to carry guns concealed yet leave them easy to get at.



Ive killed a few bears, and spent plenty of time in our National Parks. Bears are fast, faster than any human atrtacker, they are also stealthy. you will not be able to access a concealed handgun during a bear attack. You will not be able to access any weapon that requires two hands to deploy, during a bear attack, unless its already in your hands. The bear will be on you faster than any mugger and overpower you faster than mike tyson. you MIGHT be able to draw and shoot from a strong side belt holster. even then, the bear may be on you before you clear leather.

The park rangers wont have to look for your weapon, the tourist will be plenty quick to rat you out. National Parks are nearly as crowded as Disneyland.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:57:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:
What would you take for anti-bear defense? I personally want a .44 Mag, but seems NaziStone thinks us commoners are too dumb to pack heat into the fucking WILDERNESS and would prefer we become bear food. So, I *could* take a pistol but it'd be on me if I got caught. Since confiscation of my gun and a fine doesnt seem like a whole lot of fun what are my options?
Chance it with the handcannon and feel comfortable?
Pick up some bear spray? (Does this shit even WORK?)

I personally would lean towards chance the handcannon, because scaring a bear away with a bottle of frickin PEPPER spray just doesnt seem like a career move to me.



Rather be tried by 12 than carried by six... Nuff said.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:20:46 PM EST
Also remember that the bear sprays only have a shelf life of about 3 years, check the expiration dates. Guy near Yellowstone dumped a whole can on a grizzly Sunday and well it didn't work real well (was 5+ y/o) but did scare it away by yelling at it after the can was empty.

G
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:21:56 PM EST
In order for the rangers to find the concealed weapon, they would still have to have a reason to search you. Don't do anything suspicous and they can not search.

The prohibition on firearms in National Parks is a regulation, not a law. It is only a misdemeanor, usually punishable by a fine.

Make sure you are legal to CCW in under state law (through recipiprocity or get a WY license); carrying in violation of state law IS a serious crime.

Here are the specific regulations:

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.
(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net (2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried, possessed or used: (i) At designated times and locations in park areas where: (A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.2 of this chapter; (B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with Sec. 2.3 of this part. (ii) When used for target practice at designated times and at facilities or locations designed and constructed specifically for this purpose and designated pursuant to special regulations. (iii) Within a residential dwelling. For purposes of this subparagraph only, the term ``residential dwelling'' means a fixed housing structure which is either the principal residence of its occupants, or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its occupants as an alternate residence or vacation home. (3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. (b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle, vessel or other mode of transportation is prohibited, except that carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a vessel is allowed when such vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a shooting platform in accordance with Federal and State law. (c) The use of a weapon, trap or net in a manner that endangers persons or property is prohibited. (d) The superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances: (1) When necessary to support research activities conducted in accordance with Sec. 2.5. (2) To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle horses for emergency use. (3) For employees, agents or cooperating officials in the performance of their official duties. (4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters contiguous to a park area when other means of access are otherwise impracticable or impossible. Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued pursuant to this paragraph is prohibited and may result in the suspension or revocation of the permit. (e) Authorized Federal, State and local law enforcement officers may carry firearms in the performance of their official duties. (f) The carrying or possessing of a weapon, trap or net in violation of applicable Federal and State laws is prohibited. (g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States.



I'd pack the .44, or hike somewhere else.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:59:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Ive killed a few bears, and spent plenty of time in our National Parks. Bears are fast, faster than any human atrtacker, they are also stealthy. you will not be able to access a concealed handgun during a bear attack. You will not be able to access any weapon that requires two hands to deploy, during a bear attack, unless its already in your hands. The bear will be on you faster than any mugger and overpower you faster than mike tyson. you MIGHT be able to draw and shoot from a strong side belt holster. even then, the bear may be on you before you clear leather.

The park rangers wont have to look for your weapon, the tourist will be plenty quick to rat you out. National Parks are nearly as crowded as Disneyland.



I've been to plenty of national parks and no, tourists won't rat you out because they won't see a weapon if it's CONCEALED. By your weird logic, no citizen could ever pack a concealed weapon because someone would see it. And as for bears, the most frequent bear confrontations that lead to tourist deaths seem to come from getting between a sow and her cubs. Most of the ones about which I've read and heard (from a friend who lived in Alaska for years) involve the bear showing itself a threat first. Of course there are attacks that are without warning, but to assume you have no chance is a kind of defeatist attitude that also would make it pointless for you to CCW in your home state.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:15:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:26:18 AM EST
If yellowstone blows:

Stuff it in it's pooper and post pics.

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:34:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 8:35:52 AM EST by Gartchen]
the sprays do work - stories here all the time from hunters. We carry two big cans all the time while in the woods. One with the wife and one with me. We always carry a firearm of some kind also.

As for Jellystone (you could give up your right to have a gun if caught!). If you want to pack a cannon - go hike in the Bob Marshall wilderness instead or on the outsskirts of Yellowstone and hike the Beartooths South of Red Lodge Montana.

Yellowstone has all the tourists traps to keep you busy for days on end. Hiking can be had all around the edges of the park while legally packing!

good luck.

and as always - please come to Montana, play and spend your money, but please then go home !

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:45:53 AM EST
"this side towards enemy bears"
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:30:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:
"this side towards enemy bears"



That's it! A claymore strapped to your chest.

Facing out, of course. Otherwise, you might get hurt.

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