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Posted: 1/31/2011 9:03:01 PM EDT
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:03:52 PM EDT
Moonbat heads explode.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:04:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Venkman:
Moonbat heads explode.
I look forward to that. I will have the biggest shit eating grin on my face all fucking day and will make it a point to go to the mall or something where there are a lot of people with one of my most rabid anti liberal t shirts on.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:05:27 PM EDT
Yes, it just stops. Treated as if it never existed.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:07:36 PM EDT
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:09:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:09:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.

doesn't all of it depend on the mandate to fund all of this since they count "savings" as money since they assume everyone will actually follow the mandate and go waste money on a plan they can't afford?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:10:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.

sweet
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:12:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.

sweet


I will say there is conflicting precedent about lack of severability clauses, but it appears in this case the Act would be void. At least, this is the position of the Florida Federal Judge.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:12:31 PM EDT
insurance companies will not drop their rates. Why would they. They know the dems are going to keep pushing.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:15:58 PM EDT
Didn't the whole law depend on the mandate? So, of course if that's ruled unconstitutional, then the whole bill gets thrown out.

Do you guys realize how much and how far reaching such a decision could be for Conservatives? If it get rejected, everything is at stake for the Democrats. It could really send this country down a completely different path.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:17:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.



Will this reach SCOTUS while Obama holds office still?

Or is this going to take a few years?

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:19:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 9:20:20 PM EDT by victorgonzales]

Originally Posted By naludiablo:
insurance companies will not drop their rates. Why would they. They know the dems are going to keep pushing.

because they increased their rates based on formulas of increased costs from Obamacare. If those predicted costs are removed then insurance companies would no longer be a target of the people and the democrats would lose the argument. Insurance companies have a lot to lose if this shit stands. They have a lot to gain if republicans have momentum on healthcare and do some real free market reforms actually reducing the cost of CARE. Insurance companies can then go after a bigger customer base. The more people insured for the same profit margin the less likely the people are to vote to fuck over the insurance companies. cutting costs is good for business long term.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:19:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.



Will this reach SCOTUS while Obama holds office still?

Or is this going to take a few years?



At the very least, this will reach SCOTUS before he leaves office (in 2013, heh). A decision? Who knows. The reason I say this will get to SCOTUS so soon is because there will be differing opinions in the Circuits, and, frankly, there are too many states behind this for the case to go too slow.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:21:01 PM EDT
you think the skinny had a fit at last year's state of the union, where he scolded the SCOTUS for striking down mccain-fieingold, ...just imagine how pissed off he'd be having to give his last state of the union after his fascist dream is stricken down - .. i say, it couldn't happen to a more deserving asshole...
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:23:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 9:23:47 PM EDT by DragoMuseveni]

Originally Posted By WileyCoyote:
you think the skinny had a fit at last year's state of the union, where he scolded the SCOTUS for striking down mccain-fieingold, ...just imagine how pissed off he'd be having to give his last state of the union after his fascist dream is stricken down - .. i say, it couldn't happen to a more deserving asshole...


No matter how the SCOTUS rules things won't be pretty. It's just a question of who's going to "make a mess" and how big they will make it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:23:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WileyCoyote:
you think the skinny had a fit at last year's state of the union, where he scolded the SCOTUS for striking down mccain-fieingold, ...just imagine how pissed off he'd be having to give his last state of the union after his fascist dream is stricken down - .. i say, it couldn't happen to a more deserving asshole...

I think I would hold a viewing party over that one.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:25:59 PM EDT
Im sure it will end up a 5-4 split.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:28:16 PM EDT
John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:30:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 9:31:55 PM EDT by WileyCoyote]
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

Originally Posted By WileyCoyote:
you think the skinny had a fit at last year's state of the union, where he scolded the SCOTUS for striking down mccain-fieingold, ...just imagine how pissed off he'd be having to give his last state of the union after his fascist dream is stricken down - .. i say, it couldn't happen to a more deserving asshole...

I think I would hold a viewing party over that one.


yep, just imagine, ...everything he's screwed up done will be undone before he gets his ass kicked to the curb to forever tour the world and rant against america w/ jimmy carter. = my dream!
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:33:46 PM EDT
I dance a jig.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:35:54 PM EDT
It depends on what's called "severability" If the Supremes (where this is headed) find a part of it unconstitutional, they can either strike down just that portion of the law or the entire law, depending on several things. The individual mandate is central to the overall law, and the super geniuses who wrote it failed to add in a severability clause, which means it's pretty likely the whole law would be voided, lock, stock and barrel. At that point it's as if it never passed.

That's the state the law is in right now, at least until the government appeals and tries to get a stay on the Florida federal judge's ruling.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:37:35 PM EDT
A couple of conservative Supreme Court Justices will end up committing suicide before decision, multiple gunshot wounds to the head......
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:44:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it.


28 (at least) will make sure it happens. Realpolitik is almost more important than constitutionality at this point.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:54:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
It depends on what's called "severability" If the Supremes (where this is headed) find a part of it unconstitutional, they can either strike down just that portion of the law or the entire law, depending on several things. The individual mandate is central to the overall law, and the super geniuses who wrote it failed to add in a severability clause, which means it's pretty likely the whole law would be voided, lock, stock and barrel. At that point it's as if it never passed.

That's the state the law is in right now, at least until the government appeals and tries to get a stay on the Florida federal judge's ruling.


How long before it gets to SCOTUS? Most of the law kicks in 2014 right? Hopefully the structure of the court doesnt change before this happens. I think the liberals were pretty bold in mandating this shit. The madate to purchase is what is designed to fund the program, correct? So if that part is found unconstitutional then the whole law is fucked, right?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:58:19 PM EDT
Then the mandated insurance portion of Obama Care will cease to be. This will piss off the insurance companies who were supposed to make huge bucks out of forcing everyone into the plan. They will simply make the premiums super expensive for those with preexisting conditions, and those people will then choose not to buy insurance... and for the most part everything will be as it was... a few more consumer protections and a few more taxes.

... oh and a lot of rich lobbyists and lawyers!
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Then the mandated insurance portion of Obama Care will cease to be. This will piss off the insurance companies who were supposed to make huge bucks out of forcing everyone into the plan. They will simply make the premiums super expensive for those with preexisting conditions, and those people will then choose not to buy insurance... and for the most part everything will be as it was... a few more consumer protections and a few more taxes.

... oh and a lot of rich lobbyists and lawyers!

You realize health insurance companies are the most regulated industry in the nation? BEFORE Obama Care.

How is your car insurance? If you have claims, does it not go up?


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:06:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.

They already decided the general outcome of Obamacare.

If they decided that Obamacare is unconstitutional, the majority opinion will be narrow like all opinions. Most likely one or more parts will be strike down but not all. The other parts that remains will have to start the process over again.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:08:28 PM EDT
Obama's biggest victory becomes his biggest failure.

They have either the choice to trying to keep pushing something that is unconstitutional or change the Constitution.

The Liberals would really, really love to be able to bypass the Constitution and any other procedural process with this.

Because once they do, they will continue to try to do it. And basically nullify the Constitution by making it irrelevant.

Then point out the fact that they did so, and seek to replace it with their own Constitution and sets of rules and laws, that they will try to impose on us.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:10:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Then the mandated insurance portion of Obama Care will cease to be. This will piss off the insurance companies who were supposed to make huge bucks out of forcing everyone into the plan. They will simply make the premiums super expensive for those with preexisting conditions, and those people will then choose not to buy insurance... and for the most part everything will be as it was... a few more consumer protections and a few more taxes.

... oh and a lot of rich lobbyists and lawyers!

You realize health insurance companies are the most regulated industry in the nation? BEFORE Obama Care.

How is your car insurance? If you have claims, does it not go up?


since most of americans health costs are self inflicted not only would health insurance be cheaper for me but it might encourage the massively unhealthy and obese people in this country to get in better shape since THEY would be the ones with skyricketing rates.

We need to run it just like car insurance.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:11:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Obama's biggest victory becomes his biggest failure.

They have either the choice to trying to keep pushing something that is unconstitutional or change the Constitution.

The Liberals would really, really love to be able to bypass the Constitution and any other procedural process with this.

Because once they do, they will continue to try to do it. And basically nullify the Constitution by making it irrelevant.

Then point out the fact that they did so, and seek to replace it with their own Constitution and sets of rules and laws, that they will try to impose on us.

They are going to have to fight separating states first if this is in our lifetime. we have a long way to go before they just replace the constitution and the states go along with it.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:14:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 10:16:11 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.

If they declare it unconstitutional, the law is 'just gone'.

All money spent before that date stays spent, any tax collected before that date stays collected, but ALL future activity under the law stops.

Congress can try to re-pass it with 'changes' to comply with the Court, but that requires starting from scratch, and without the 09 super-majority, there's no way that will happen.

P.S. Over HALF the states challenging this in court, means it WILL get to SCOTUS and they WILL hear it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:19:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.

If they declare it unconstitutional, the law is 'just gone'.

All money spent before that date stays spent, any tax collected before that date stays collected, but ALL future activity under the law stops.

Congress can try to re-pass it with 'changes' to comply with the Court, but that requires starting from scratch, and without the 09 super-majority, there's no way that will happen.

P.S. Over HALF the states challenging this in court, means it WILL get to SCOTUS and they WILL hear it.



And they almost certainly will rule against it almost only because of this. It's just how these things work. SCOTUS has at times justly seen itself as the pressure valve of the Republic.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:26:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.

If they declare it unconstitutional, the law is 'just gone'.

All money spent before that date stays spent, any tax collected before that date stays collected, but ALL future activity under the law stops.

Congress can try to re-pass it with 'changes' to comply with the Court, but that requires starting from scratch, and without the 09 super-majority, there's no way that will happen.

P.S. Over HALF the states challenging this in court, means it WILL get to SCOTUS and they WILL hear it.



And they almost certainly will rule against it almost only because of this. It's just how these things work. SCOTUS has at times justly seen itself as the pressure valve of the Republic.

Agreed.

It's especially evident in the 1800s - both before and immediately after the Civil War.

Some bad law has come from 'pressure valve' decisions (Slaughterhouse), but at the same time, if it gets rid of Zerocare, I'll take it...

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:26:46 PM EDT
...so long as it happens before '14 when the mandate is enforced.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:30:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
...so long as it happens before '14 when the mandate is enforced.

They can kiss my ass with their mandate. If they make my plan unavalable or unafordable They are going to have to garnish me for the fine.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:30:35 PM EDT
We do a victory dance.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:37:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
...so long as it happens before '14 when the mandate is enforced.


There will be an injunction if the case hasn't been decided by then.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:38:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By TheTracker:
I thought the FL judge just said the mandate was, not the whole thing.


The mandate is not severable, so if the mandate is unconstitutional, the entire Act is void.


Looks like we gots us an attorney in dah houzzzzze! Woot!! Woot!!

Yes. This gentleman is correct.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 10:49:27 PM EDT by imagetcha]
Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
Im sure it will end up a 5-4 split.


Beggars can't be choosers. Let's just hope it's a 5-4 in our favor.

Hey attorney guy, what do you think may happen in the SC? Care to make any predictions? I'm new to this. We'd certainly have Scalia, Roberts, and Thomas yes? Alito?? Breyer's probably on O's side, along with his lady friends . . ..

EDIT: Looks like you made your prediction. I hope you're right. That would be a cathartic moment for me if it get's struck down. I think I could see it going 6-3 even.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:45:27 PM EDT
If Obamacare is ruled unconstitutional, it means he wasted his only term in office. If his signature achievement is sent to the recycle bin, he will NOT be reelected.


Steve
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:46:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stevem1a:
If Obamacare is ruled unconstitutional, it means he wasted his only term in office. If his signature achievement is sent to the recycle bin, he will NOT be reelected.


Steve

It won't be decided before he leaves office...

Unless he is already re-elected.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:46:32 PM EDT
How we got here is like the plot of a novel; a POTUS who campaigned saying that our Constitution granted "negative rights", in that it protects We the People FROM what the government can DO to US, to a speaker of the House that told US "we have to pass this bill; to find out what's in it..." Thank God we have sane judges left!
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:48:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomtbo:
How we got here is like the plot of a novel; a POTUS who campaigned saying that our Constitution granted "negative rights", in that it protects We the People FROM what the government can DO to US, to a speaker of the House that told US "we have to pass this bill; to find out what's in it..." Thank God we have sane judges left!

for now. If Obama gets another pick it might not always go 5-4 in our direction.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:51:28 PM EDT
If zerocare gets shot down then my faith in our system is restored.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:53:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By stevem1a:
If Obamacare is ruled unconstitutional, it means he wasted his only term in office. If his signature achievement is sent to the recycle bin, he will NOT be reelected.


Steve

It won't be decided before he leaves office...

Unless he is already re-elected.


That really depends on what happens in Circuit. With the number of states behind this and the time-sensitive nature of much of Act, it is very likely that this case will get fast-tracked. The trial stage is always the longest when it comes to actual work involved. Appeals only take time because of scheduling.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:59:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
If zerocare gets shot down then my faith in our system is restored.

Im going to re add a bunch of facebook people I deleted and post the Nelson HAHA thing and then delete them again.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:00:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 11:03:57 PM EDT by stickfigure]
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Obama's biggest victory becomes his biggest failure.

They have either the choice to trying to keep pushing something that is unconstitutional or change the Constitution.

The Liberals would really, really love to be able to bypass the Constitution and any other procedural process with this.

Because once they do, they will continue to try to do it. And basically nullify the Constitution by making it irrelevant.

Then point out the fact that they did so, and seek to replace it with their own Constitution and sets of rules and laws, that they will try to impose on us.

They are going to have to fight separating states first if this is in our lifetime. we have a long way to go before they just replace the constitution and the states go along with it.



This was the first true showing of the lefts hand and of what we are up against. If you recall they couldn't get the 60 vote option and so with no joy, they tried the 51% vote (reconcilliation)
By the time the dust was starting to settle they were wrangling on ways to just force it through even though legally it didn't have the votes. Basically by just saying they are the party in power and they will get what they wanted.

What they were willing to do at the time, was to nearly become a one Party Government and take it all, just to pass Healthcare.

This had never been used before for this type of law, only to pass budgets in emergencies.

If you read Obama's peoples response to the Judge's decision, it was basically, "Well, we think it is Constitutional and we are pressing forward." His people are trying to bypass the Judicial Branch in declaring laws Constitutional or not.

This needs to go to SCOTUS and have them decapitate it and assign it to the dust bin of history.

And Obama will have been delt a political blow that I don't think he could recover from.

The saving grace in all this is that, Obama, his people and his agenda tried to reach too far with this, they tried to force something upon us that was way too far reaching, way to intrusive, and that will ultimately be it's undoing.

They should have just tried to stay within the Constitution's bounds, do something that really fixed some issues, and offered us something that even Republicans, Conservatives, and even a few Libertarians could agree with in the spirit of compromise and trying to work together.

But instead they went for the jugular, and I think the whole thing will get shit-canned because of it.


Fuck 'em, all the better now, stew in failure for being greedy, over zealous Communist, Socialist fucks.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:02:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
So if SCOUS rules the bill a no go based on the mandate and or taxes that didn't originate in the house or whatever it may be..... what happens?

Is the law just gone? Is all the organizations and focus groups and whatever the hell has already been started removed? How does this work? I can't recall teh SCOTUS ruling anything this big as a no go. We have a congress that will NOT amend it for a second chance so will it just die?


Lets hope insurance companies are smart and do a rate drop if this law gets shit canned. It will go a long way towards showing that insurance companies had no choice but to raise rates and will give republicans merit to try some free market ideas in reducing costs.


they will do what they did in dc, over the handgun thing. they will change a thing or two, and say WE FIXED IT !, and run with it. it will be going back to the supreme court until they eventually get it semi legal
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:02:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Obama's biggest victory becomes his biggest failure.

They have either the choice to trying to keep pushing something that is unconstitutional or change the Constitution.

The Liberals would really, really love to be able to bypass the Constitution and any other procedural process with this.

Because once they do, they will continue to try to do it. And basically nullify the Constitution by making it irrelevant.

Then point out the fact that they did so, and seek to replace it with their own Constitution and sets of rules and laws, that they will try to impose on us.

They are going to have to fight separating states first if this is in our lifetime. we have a long way to go before they just replace the constitution and the states go along with it.



This was the first true showing of the lefts hand and of what we are up against. If you recall they couldn't get the 60 vote option and so with no joy, they tried the 51% vote (reconcilliation)
By the time the dust was starting to settle they were wrangling on ways to just force it through even though legally it didn't have the votes. Basically by just saying they are the party in power and they will get what they wanted.

What they were willing to at the time, was to nearly become a one Party Government and take it all, just to pass Healthcare.

This had never been used before for this type of law, only to pass budgets in emergencies.

If you read Obama's peoples response to the Judges decision, it was basically, "Well, we think it is Constitutional and we are pressing forward." His people are trying to bypass the Judicial Branch in declaring law Constitutional or not.

This needs to go to SCOTUS and have them decapitate it and assign it to the dust bin of history.

And Obama will have been delt a political blow that I don't think he could recover from.

The saving grace in all this is that, Obama, his people and his agenda tried to reach to far with this, they tried to force something upon us that was way too far reaching, way to intrusive, and that will ultimately be it's undoing.

They should have just tried to stay within the Constitution's bounds, do something that really fixed some issues, and offered us something that even Republicans, Conservatives, and even a few Libertarians could agree with in the spirit of compromise and trying to work together.

But instead they went for the jugular, and I think the whole thing will get shit-canned because of it.


Fuck 'em, all the better now, stew in failure for being greedy, over zealous Communist, Socialist fucks.



They could have fixed ALOT simply by deregulating the health insurance industry and letting people shop out of state for health insurance.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:10:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
Obama's biggest victory becomes his biggest failure.

They have either the choice to trying to keep pushing something that is unconstitutional or change the Constitution.

The Liberals would really, really love to be able to bypass the Constitution and any other procedural process with this.

Because once they do, they will continue to try to do it. And basically nullify the Constitution by making it irrelevant.

Then point out the fact that they did so, and seek to replace it with their own Constitution and sets of rules and laws, that they will try to impose on us.

They are going to have to fight separating states first if this is in our lifetime. we have a long way to go before they just replace the constitution and the states go along with it.



This was the first true showing of the lefts hand and of what we are up against. If you recall they couldn't get the 60 vote option and so with no joy, they tried the 51% vote (reconcilliation)
By the time the dust was starting to settle they were wrangling on ways to just force it through even though legally it didn't have the votes. Basically by just saying they are the party in power and they will get what they wanted.

What they were willing to at the time, was to nearly become a one Party Government and take it all, just to pass Healthcare.

This had never been used before for this type of law, only to pass budgets in emergencies.

If you read Obama's peoples response to the Judges decision, it was basically, "Well, we think it is Constitutional and we are pressing forward." His people are trying to bypass the Judicial Branch in declaring law Constitutional or not.

This needs to go to SCOTUS and have them decapitate it and assign it to the dust bin of history.

And Obama will have been delt a political blow that I don't think he could recover from.

The saving grace in all this is that, Obama, his people and his agenda tried to reach to far with this, they tried to force something upon us that was way too far reaching, way to intrusive, and that will ultimately be it's undoing.

They should have just tried to stay within the Constitution's bounds, do something that really fixed some issues, and offered us something that even Republicans, Conservatives, and even a few Libertarians could agree with in the spirit of compromise and trying to work together.

But instead they went for the jugular, and I think the whole thing will get shit-canned because of it.


Fuck 'em, all the better now, stew in failure for being greedy, over zealous Communist, Socialist fucks.



They could have fixed ALOT simply by deregulating the health insurance industry and letting people shop out of state for health insurance.


They could have fixed a lot just by trying to work with the Republicans, being transperant, not giving favors to unions, initiated tort reform, deregulating insurance.

But adding riders, the whole $600 tax reporting issue, and everything else we haven't seen yet, all the IRS agents...


What it comes down to, is that they were trying to do something along the lines of a complete Social-Political restructuring in one bill.

If it was up to them it would have been a 10,000 page document that was a Liberal Christmas wish list come true.


But they reached too far, they could have done a lot of good things and actually given us all something that was helpful, but really they were looking to do a whole lot more.
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