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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/5/2002 5:08:46 PM EST
By: American Airlines Pilot - Captain John Maniscalco I've been trying to say this since 9-11. I guess I will be labeled as a bigoted American. *********************************************­*************************** "You worry me. I wish you didn't. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don't blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me. I notice you because I can't help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don't fully understand their grievances and hate but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks. On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children's mothers. So I notice you now. I don't want to be worried. I don't want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that have destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help. As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist. How do I differentiate between the true Arab-Muslim-Americans and the Arab-Muslims in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter those very same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab-Muslim in this country to determine it for me.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:09:44 PM EST
I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your "Jihads"? Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords, a freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it. Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent and no more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy...I am only interested in action. What will you do for America -- our great country -at this time of crisis, at this time of war? I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America." I want to see young Arab-Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:11:06 PM EST
The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals. The very few Arab-Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing "leaders" like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat. If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good and pure and true when your "leaders" are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if large numbers of the world's Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion, a form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members defended Johnny Cochran and O. J. Simpson after the latter butchered his wife and murdered an innocent friend. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:11:57 PM EST
and your fellow Muslims hate us because our women proudly show their faces in public rather than cover up like a shameful whore? Do you and your fellow Muslims hate us because we drink wine with dinner, or celebrate Christmas? Do you and you fellow Muslims hate us because we have befriended Israel, the ONLY civilized democratic nation in the entire Middle East? And if you and your fellow Muslims hate us, then why in the world are you even here? Are you here to take our money? Are you here to undermine our peace and stability? Are you here to destroy us? If so, I want you to leave. I want you to go back to your desert sandpit where women are treated like rats and dogs. I want you to take your religion, your friends, and your family back to your Islamic extremists, and STAY THERE! We will NEVER give in to your influence, your retarded mentality, and your twisted, violent, intolerant religion. We will NEVER allow the attacks of September 11, or any others for that matter, to take away that which is so precious to us: Our rights under the greatest constitution in the world. I want to know where every Arab-Muslim in this country stands and I think it is my right and the right of every true citizen of this country to demand it. A right paid for by the blood of thousands of my brothers and sisters who died protecting the very constitution that is protecting you and your family. I am pleading with you to let me know. I want you here as my brother, my neighbor, my friend, as a fellow American. But there can be no gray areas or ambivalence regarding your allegiance and it is up to YOU, to show ME, where YOU stand." "Until then ... you worry me."
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:13:03 PM EST
Cleary there is a need for [s]re-education camps[/s] diversity training in this country. Sad.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:28:45 PM EST
Why? I thought the pilot said it very well!
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:32:12 PM EST
Sounds like a reasonable question to me. "Excuse me, Abdullah, but who the hell's side are you on, anyway?" Goes for those outside our borders as well.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 5:57:51 PM EST
my sentiments exactly. i still dont trust them. probably never will.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:07:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 9:49:40 PM EST by Flash_Muzzle]
I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, military vets, huh? Not Vietnam vet...
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:13:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 6:13:47 PM EST by Jewbroni]
This can go both ways. One one side, you're biggoted if you are wary of Muslim-Americans, b/c an American is an American, not a terrorist. On the other, you're slightly stupid if you think every Arabic Muslim in the U.S. is "waving the American flag". The author made his points very clear: that he embraces the freedom aspect of our great country, but refuses to lay down suspicions of those around him. You can stop the war and let peace and love run its course, or you can nuke the entire Middle East, thereby saving countless of lives by preventing further conflicts in the future, and be labeled the next Hitler. Either way, morals are in question. This is no different. P.S. - as for me, if you called ME the next Hitler...well....maybe you wouldn't be incorrect. Guess my morals are in question, eh?
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:20:49 PM EST
Molto bene! Bigoted? Maybe not. Paranoid? Maybe. Cautious? Bien sur! I am too! Granted, I have often been accused of paranoia, but when I need the trauma kit I keep in my truck, when the compass that is never far comes in handy, when I use the duct tape I carry in my pocket (15' or so rolls up real nice, with practise) to secure someone who would otherwise present a danger, I am not questioned. Why do I need an open water lifesaving certificate? It's come in handy. So has CPR, First Aid, BLS, and a host of other cards I keep current whenever possible. Why do I carry so much in my truck? Because I want to. It's come in handy. Why do I everyone I don't know with suspicion? It's come in handy. I don't always get to travel with the upper crust (I'm often among the crumbs,) and it is prudent to err on the side of caution. I find no fault with this man's thinking - it mirrors my own. When I hear Yasser Arafatass denounce the homicide bombings in Israel in English AND Arabic, I'll start believing that rapproachment is possible. Until then, I suspect everyone (some Arabs can look close to Anglo-Saxon!) FFZ
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:29:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 6:33:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:09:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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Ummmm, just what 'Nam vets are you referring to there flash....
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 7:54:50 PM EST
Wrong generation to be McVeigh
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 8:01:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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your comment wasnt directed at me by any chance was it bud? just wondering...... and what Vietnam Vets were you talking about?
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 8:41:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/5/2002 8:44:12 PM EST by M4]
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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In case someone has to spell it out for you....let me give it a whirl...k? The Islamic fanatics refered to in the post have been responsible for terrorism for DECADES, and atrocities by the THOUSANDS. Whether it's the Munich Olympics in 1972, countless hijackings through out the 60's, 70's, and 80's, terror in Israel, terror in Beirut, terror in Europe, state sponsored terrorism by many of the Middle Eastern nations, which has a death toll in the tens of thousands.....THERE'S A PATTERN HERE. Got it? Everyone involved in these crimes shared a few things.....A) Arab B) Fanatical Islamics. How many people need to be slaughtered before profiling becomes a good idea to you.....friggin' idiot. Tim McVeigh and company don't exactly merit a particular profile. It was a single event, not 45 years of the same old shit from the Muslim whack-o's. Try firing up your damn brain before you type something so fuckin' stupid next time.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 9:53:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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Damn..........now THAT'S what I call stupid.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:22:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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I suppose that's only fair. Go ahead and ask away. I'll tell you what side I'm on, and how proud I am to be on it and why.
Link Posted: 8/5/2002 10:57:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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No, because white, protestant, Vietnam vets everywhere denounced it as horrific and inexcusable. That's what this is all about. Organized islamic groups have not denounced the attacks of sept. 11. The best they ever do is say "Those attacks were not in keeping with muhammad's teachings...BUT blah blah blah blah." As a group, they refuse to denounce the attacks without qualifiers. They won't say,"those attacks were wrong" without saying "but America's policies are to blame" or "America shouldn't have ." With these responses, they are implicitly saying that the attacks are somehow justifiable. They refuse to root out terrorists from amongst their ranks, instead saying "Yes, abdullah was bad, but look at what israel is doing!" The fact that they aren't eagerly handing over terrorists from among them shows that, however veiled, they support them. They need to choose a side. Want to be our friends? Great, prove it. Otherwise they will (justifiably) be lumped in with those they defend through their inaction. By the way, I am curious if your response is from some handbook "witty liberal responses to legitimate conservative arguments." I don't know how many times I've heard the unthinking masses repeat what you just did.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 3:10:18 AM EST
Oh how true Zonan!!!!!!!! There is one Muslim who posts around here that seems to have some sense. Would like to hear more from him. I sometimes wonder if they are ALL bad? Certainly seems that way at times. The point is, either you are FOR US, no qualifiers, or you are AGAINST US by apologizing for the maggots. No fence. One or the other. Friend or foe.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 3:23:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 2:58:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 4:14:45 PM EST by WhiskeyBravo]
You can call me a bigot, or anything else for that matter, [u]I don't care[/u], but I don't trust muslims/arabs. I just don't. I've never witnessed a muslim helping out his neighbor, haven't seen one physically help an old lady cross a street, haven't seen one show up at community organized charitable events, haven't seen one giving food to my local food shelf or give a homeless person a helping hand. I've seen plenty of Christians do these things but never a muslim. The only thing I see muslims do is scream at the world or each other and do others harm, so pardon me. Show me your good works; do some good deeds. Convince me otherwise, or just call me a bigot ([u]I don't care[/u]).
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 3:24:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
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No, because white, protestant, Vietnam vets everywhere denounced it as horrific and inexcusable. That's what this is all about. Organized islamic groups have not denounced the attacks of sept. 11. The best they ever do is say "Those attacks were not in keeping with muhammad's teachings...BUT blah blah blah blah." As a group, they refuse to denounce the attacks without qualifiers. They won't say,"those attacks were wrong" without saying "but America's policies are to blame" or "America shouldn't have ." With these responses, they are implicitly saying that the attacks are somehow justifiable. They refuse to root out terrorists from amongst their ranks, instead saying "Yes, abdullah was bad, but look at what israel is doing!" The fact that they aren't eagerly handing over terrorists from among them shows that, however veiled, they support them. They need to choose a side. Want to be our friends? Great, prove it. Otherwise they will (justifiably) be lumped in with those they defend through their inaction. By the way, I am curious if your response is from some handbook "witty liberal responses to legitimate conservative arguments." I don't know how many times I've heard the unthinking masses repeat what you just did.
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I think it should be pretty clear what islam is all about if you look at how muhammed lived. How would you feel about following the teachings of a man who married and had sex with a 6 year old? Beyond that was a liar and a murderer. muhammed is residing in the hottest torturous part of hell and will be for ever more. Follow his teachings if you like....hope you have Copperton spf 100000000000000000, new long lasting formula for eternity. The Lord warned that there would be false prophets, and this one will take millions to hell with him. Though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil Bring it
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 4:47:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 5:39:18 PM EST by Flash_Muzzle]
Originally Posted By zonan: By the way, I am curious if your response is from some handbook "witty liberal responses to legitimate conservative arguments." I don't know how many times I've heard the unthinking masses repeat what you just did.
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Just how many times do you need to hear something from the masses before you realize it's YOU who is fvcked up? Is any conservative argument you made up legitimate? Anyone who disagrees with you a witty liberal? Hey, I'm nervous about getting on an airplane with anyone who looks even vagly Middle Eastern. But, when you start condemning an entire race/creed/color/religion for the actions of a few, you're eroding the very ideals that this nation is built upon. Either you hold our flag proudly, or you hide behind it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:06:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 5:12:21 PM EST by MickeyMouse]
Things change when you are at war. It becomes necessary to identify who the enemy is in order to defend against that enemy. In WWII that was pretty clear and hate of that enemy be he German, Japanese or their allies was quite acceptable. That war is over and most Americans have put the hate behind them and have welcomed those former enemies as friends, business asscociates etc. Same in those former enemy countries. VN was different. The enemy was not so easily identified and that created monumental problems. Ask any vet of that conflict. Now we come to our current war. One started, again, by our enemies. They chose the method and the time to attack. There is legitimate disagreement WHICH attack from say 1973 to 9/11/2001 was the start of the war! No doubt about it, 9/11 was the worst to date and is generally considered the attack that started the war. We ARE at war!! We need to identify the enemy. To date, he is moslem and Saudi. He has chosen a cowards war, sneak attacks - primarily on civilians. He has been an organized group consisting entirely of Middle Eastern men acting as a gang of crimminals rather than as part of a legitamate government's Army although a number of governments have aided the attacks and fail to make any effort to round up the gangsters/criminals responsible. Members of the ethnic group and religion from whom our enemy comes have nearly ALL failed to distance themselves from the gangster's actions. How does condeming the entire group translate to bigotry? It is up to THEM to separate themselves from the crimminals and they need to get to it. If they delay to long they look all the more like they arepart of the gang. When the NEXT atrocity happens, they need to find a good place to hide because Americans have a limit of tolerance beyond which they can get VERY nasty - militarily and at home.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 6:01:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zardoz: Damn..........now THAT'S what I call stupid.
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Excuse me. Oklahoma City was completely different. McVeigh used a long enough fuse to get away and not blow himself up... Hey, if profiling is what it takes to stop terrorism, then by all means do it. I don't think it will help any more than X-raying my shoes at the airport. If our government decides that owning an AR15 places us in a group prone to violence, then they will have precedence to detain, search, and seize. If the local Brady bunch finds out what's in your basement, it will be acceptable to have a liberal gang beat the living sh*t out of you and leave you for dead in your driveway. You decide...
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 6:19:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle:
Originally Posted By zonan: By the way, I am curious if your response is from some handbook "witty liberal responses to legitimate conservative arguments." I don't know how many times I've heard the unthinking masses repeat what you just did.
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Just how many times do you need to hear something from the masses before you realize it's YOU who is fvcked up? Is any conservative argument you made up legitimate? Anyone who disagrees with you a witty liberal? Hey, I'm nervous about getting on an airplane with anyone who looks even vagly Middle Eastern. But, when you start condemning an entire race/creed/color/religion for the actions of a few, you're eroding the very ideals that this nation is built upon. Either you hold our flag proudly, or you hide behind it.
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You just ignored the point I brought up in my post which shows why what you said is wrong. Please address that rather than saying "you're racist." Why did you respond to the "by the way" rather than the message itself? Because you can't defend your statement against it?
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 6:22:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By wdavis:
Originally Posted By zonan:
Originally Posted By Flash_Muzzle: I guess after Oklahoma City, you got real suspicious of all those white, protestant, Viet Nam vets, huh?
View Quote
No, because white, protestant, Vietnam vets everywhere denounced it as horrific and inexcusable. That's what this is all about. Organized islamic groups have not denounced the attacks of sept. 11. The best they ever do is say "Those attacks were not in keeping with muhammad's teachings...BUT blah blah blah blah." As a group, they refuse to denounce the attacks without qualifiers. They won't say,"those attacks were wrong" without saying "but America's policies are to blame" or "America shouldn't have ." With these responses, they are implicitly saying that the attacks are somehow justifiable. They refuse to root out terrorists from amongst their ranks, instead saying "Yes, abdullah was bad, but look at what israel is doing!" The fact that they aren't eagerly handing over terrorists from among them shows that, however veiled, they support them. They need to choose a side. Want to be our friends? Great, prove it. Otherwise they will (justifiably) be lumped in with those they defend through their inaction. By the way, I am curious if your response is from some handbook "witty liberal responses to legitimate conservative arguments." I don't know how many times I've heard the unthinking masses repeat what you just did.
View Quote
I think it should be pretty clear what islam is all about if you look at how muhammed lived. How would you feel about following the teachings of a man who married and had sex with a 6 year old? Beyond that was a liar and a murderer. muhammed is residing in the hottest torturous part of hell and will be for ever more. Follow his teachings if you like....hope you have Copperton spf 100000000000000000, new long lasting formula for eternity. The Lord warned that there would be false prophets, and this one will take millions to hell with him. Though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil Bring it
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I agree with you. That's why I said what I said. It is a challenge that I don't think they can meet. "Prove you're on our side, or you are one of them"--I am confident that islam is inherently evil which is obvious enough from its teachings, therefore I don't think they will ever bother to take up the challenge to prove they are on our side...because they aren't.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 10:47:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By zonan: You just ignored the point I brought up in my post which shows why what you said is wrong. Please address that rather than saying "you're racist." Why did you respond to the "by the way" rather than the message itself? Because you can't defend your statement against it?
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I heard lots of islamic leaders unconditionally condemn 9/11 in the press. Does it mean a damn thing? No. The same leaders would privately share high-fives and then send money to the families of the terrorist 'martyrs'. Does locking up or deporting the muslim who takes my money at the 7/11 change anything? We have I&N laws, and if someone is here illegally, they should be on the next boat home. If they have complied with our laws and are not stockpiling ammonium nitrate in their apartment, they ought to enjoy the same quality of life we do. I think we both understand the reality of the situation here. I admitted that I'm scared by the presence of anyone middle eastern. I'm also scared when I wander onto the wrong side of the tracks. Does that mean I'm a bigot/racist? Yes. So are you. The difference is that I'm not ready to give our law enforcement/military carte blanche permission to search/seize/detain any person based on their race/nationality/religion. We have the freedom to be bigots. Revel in our racism! Captain Maniscalco is free to share his thoughts with us. BUT, when we wish harm (or CAUSE harm) upon someone based solely upon their country of birth or religion, then we are no better than the muslim 'leaders' who preach against America. I'm confident that humans will continue to kill other humans in the name of their god until my God decides to come back and kick some ass...
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