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Posted: 2/25/2007 12:17:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 1:43:43 PM EST by VooDoo3dfx]
I am a Roman Catholic.. born and raised into it.

Generally the local church sides away from mixing politics into sermons, especially with this area being very much a "republican zone". (yes.. there are Republicans in NJ)

Well, today being the first Sunday after lent.. I guess someone decided it would be the best time to start preaching on politics.

Well, they instead of talking about gays..poverty etc.. they picked Saddam's execution for the homily. I wasn't amused.

Went something like this;

"When Saddam was executed, no one looked to the Vatican for advice. They never took heed to the calls from the Pope or the leaders of the Church..."

Went on to something with regards to it was an "evil" thing that Iraq(US) did... I lasted 4 minutes..got up, and walked out.

If this shit continues, I'll be picking another Church to attend with a letter going to the "priest in resident"/Bishop as to why. Doubt they'll care... but they should bewarned that politics and religion don't mix, especially on such sensitive and current issues.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:20:28 PM EST
I totally have been where you were today.

Are you anywhere near North East Philly?

That baloney does not wash here:

www.ccphilly.org
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:21:15 PM EST
Where is this conservative enclave in NJ you speak of?

Yeah...mixing politics and religion usually results in someone getting up from the table before they finish all the food on their plate...even more so on first dates
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:21:21 PM EST
The church is just jealous because 700 years ago THEY would have been doing the executing




(Non practicing Roman Catholic)
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:23:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By sagmill:
I totally have been where you were today.

Are you anywhere near North East Philly?

That baloney does not wash here:

www.ccphilly.org


Nada..western NJ.

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:24:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By macro:
Where is this conservative enclave in NJ you speak of?

Yeah...mixing politics and religion usually results in someone getting up from the table before they finish all the food on their plate...even more so on first dates


www.kressworks.com/Politics/Election_2000/Results/The_Map_files/mandatemap.gif

Western NJ.. it mixes from moderate Republicans to Conservative Republicans.

But the counties (mine included) went full ahead for Bush in 00 and 04.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:26:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
The church is just jealous because 700 years ago THEY would have been doing the executing

(Non practicing Roman Catholic)




I should ask a priest I know if thats true.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:27:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By sagmill:
I totally have been where you were today.

Are you anywhere near North East Philly?

That baloney does not wash here:

www.ccphilly.org


+1 for Calvary Chapel

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:28:36 PM EST
Funny, the Catholic church I attended in Florida was VERY political - it almost felt like some of the evangelical churches I had been to. I sometimes expected to see a Jerry Falwell fundraiser. Must have been a southern thing, Then, in Colorado - the priest used football analogies. Here in California - also little politics that I have seen.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:30:39 PM EST
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:33:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
I am a Roman Catholic.. born and raised into it.

Generally the local church sides away from mixing politics into sermons, especially with this area being very much a "republican zone". (yes.. there are Republicans in NJ)

Well, today being the first Sunday after lent.. I guess someone decided it would be the best time to start preaching on politics.

Well, they instead of talking about gays..poverty etc.. they picked Saddam's execution for the homily. I wasn't amused.

Went something like this;

"When Saddam was executed, no one looked to the Vatican for advice. They never took head to the calls from the Pope or the leaders of the Church..."

Went on to something with regards to it was an "evil" thing that Iraq(US) did... I lasted 4 minutes..got up, and walked out.

If this shit continues, I'll be picking another Church to attend with a letter going to the "priest in resident"/Bishop as to why. Doubt they'll care... but they should bewarned that politics and religion don't mix, especially on such sensitive and current issues.


Saddam was a Muslim. He was tried in an Iraqi Court, by Iraqis and executed by Iraqis.
If the Catholic Church wishes to exert and influence human rights and defend the Holy Lands within the Middle East,they will have to launch the Crusades again.

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:33:40 PM EST
"The Church" is arrogant enough to think gov't must consult it. A theocracy, we ain't.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:33:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 12:34:54 PM EST by thedoctors308]
What is the position of the Roman Catholic church on the death penalty?
It doesn't sound like the sermon wasn't anti-Bush, pro-Saddam or anything of the sort.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:34:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg


I can't wait to move to Utah!
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:36:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bostonterrier97:
....they will have to launch the Crusades again.




Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:37:37 PM EST
I have not been in a church in years. I went to a Unitarian church for a wedding a few weekends ago. Right in the chapel they had a UN flag proudly displayed. No American flag.

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:41:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg


I can't wait to move to Utah!


Where I laugh is the southerners talking about a new civil war and such - when dang near EVERY population center center in the South went to Gore - which is th same pattern seen in every "Yankee state" save a few, like Massachusetts. The only places where significantly urban counties went to Bush were out west.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:41:46 PM EST
Churches meddling in politics?


Say it isn't so.


Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:46:08 PM EST
I'm a Roman Catholic as well, and I almost walked out of a homily last week because the Priest started on the War in Iraq. He may be a Catholic Priest, but he is a liberal on everything but morals....
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:49:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By markl32:
I have not been in a church in years. I went to a Unitarian church for a wedding a few weekends ago. Right in the chapel they had a UN flag proudly displayed. No American flag.



Thats not a church in any sense of the word unless you believe "Mother Earth" is God. Man IS God in their eyes.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:55:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
If this shit continues, I'll be picking another Church to attend with a letter going to the "priest in resident"/Bishop as to why. Doubt they'll care... but they should bewarned that politics and religion don't mix, especially on such sensitive and current issues.


Of course they mix.

They have mixed since ministers urged their congregations to support the Continental Army and sever ties with the UK in the revolutionary days.

Now if you don't like the fact that your church's clergy looks at the whole of human history and decides to use the execution of Sadaam as an example of how evil WE are, then you are certainly welcome to tell him to get stuffed.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:56:15 PM EST
Funny thing is nobody says anything when other religions use the pulpit for their preaching.

Maybe you should have stayed arround & listened to the sermon & then spoke to the priest after mass.

Maybe the Catholic doctrine of, do on to others & thou shall not kill only apply to others except when it comes to someone you don't like.
Sadam was a vengence killing, no more no less!
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:58:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 1:01:38 PM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 12:59:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Telemachus:
I'm a Roman Catholic as well, and I almost walked out of a homily last week because the Priest started on the War in Iraq. He may be a Catholic Priest, but he is a liberal on everything but morals....


The Roman Catholic church is against all wars, except just wars.
The war in Iraq may not meet the church's list of requirements for a just war.
There is a significant faction inside the Catholic church that feels no modern war can meet the requirements, because of the destructive capabilities of today's militaries.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:00:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
The church is just jealous because 700 years ago THEY would have been doing the executing




(Non practicing Roman Catholic)
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:03:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2007 1:04:00 PM EST by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Sadam was a vengence killing, no more no less!


Sadaam was tried and convicted by the Iraqi government for crimes he committed against the Iraqi people.

As it says in the Good Book:

"3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Romans 13

...Voodoo might want to bring that little verse up with his priest.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:03:12 PM EST
The leading cause of death on our planet speaking out against killing? You're kidding?

Oh the irony.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:03:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
What is the position of the Roman Catholic church on the death penalty?
It doesn't sound like the sermon wasn't anti-Bush, pro-Saddam or anything of the sort.


If I'm not mistaken, The Catholic Church is pro life in all forms. ie. against abortion, death penalty.

IMO. The Church has a duty to stand by it's principles at all times. They could say we are always against the taking of any human life, and leave it at that. There is no need to bring politics into the services.

I think I'm correct on their pro life stance, but what is the Catholic Church's view on war?

When is it acceptable, or is it ever acceptable?

Also- I'm not Catholic, I'm Lutheran, the wife is Catholic.

I've been trying to learn the differences between the two. We take turns going to our different Churchs. It's worked so far.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:03:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
What is the position of the Roman Catholic church on the death penalty?
It doesn't sound like the sermon wasn't anti-Bush, pro-Saddam or anything of the sort.


I understand their position on the death penalty.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:05:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Coonhound:
The leading cause of death on our planet speaking out against killing? You're kidding?


Please show some statistics that demonstrate that religious faith is the leading cause of death on the planet.

Please.

We are all ears.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:05:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Of course they mix.

They have mixed since ministers urged their congregations to support the Continental Army and sever ties with the UK in the revolutionary days.

Now if you don't like the fact that your church's clergy looks at the whole of human history and decides to use the execution of Sadaam as an example of how evil WE are, then you are certainly welcome to tell him to get stuffed.


I am waiting for the day they do sermons on pedophilia...
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:06:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Sadaam was tried and convicted by the Iraqi government for crimes he committed against the Iraqi people.

As it says in the Good Book:

"3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Romans 13

...Voodoo might want to bring that little verse up with his priest.


Gracious.

Romans 13... better dust off the ol`bible! ;)
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:10:14 PM EST
the last time i went to church was when i was 12. the priest started talking about how the gulf war was immoral. my father was deployed in iraq at the time (GW1) and my mother got us kids together and stormed out. never went back.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:10:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Gracious.

Romans 13... better dust off the ol`bible! ;)


Yup.

One of the benefits of having learned a lot of scripture is that I can counter any silly libbie argument that is masked as a Biblical "teaching". People are wont to substitute their preferences for Bible teaching on many subjects.

Like the liberal the other day who told me Jesus was a socialist....
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:11:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
I think I'm correct on their pro life stance, but what is the Catholic Church's view on war?


I believe they were and still are against it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:11:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Like the liberal the other day who told me Jesus was a socialist....


You talked the Chavez?
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:12:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Coonhound:
The leading cause of death on our planet speaking out against killing? You're kidding?

Oh the irony.


Huh?

Heart disease is speaking out against killing?
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:13:59 PM EST
Yeah, no need to put up with that crap.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:15:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
What is the position of the Roman Catholic church on the death penalty?
It doesn't sound like the sermon wasn't anti-Bush, pro-Saddam or anything of the sort.


If I'm not mistaken, The Catholic Church is pro life in all forms. ie. against abortion, death penalty.

IMO. The Church has a duty to stand by it's principles at all times. They could say we are always against the taking of any human life, and leave it at that. There is no need to bring politics into the services.

I think I'm correct on their pro life stance, but what is the Catholic Church's view on war?

When is it acceptable, or is it ever acceptable?

Also- I'm not Catholic, I'm Lutheran, the wife is Catholic.

I've been trying to learn the differences between the two. We take turns going to our different Churchs. It's worked so far.


Google "Augustine" "Thomas Aquinas" and "just war theory" (Jus ad bellum) for a primer.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:17:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
You talked the Chavez?


I would never talk to Chavez.

I would kill him.

Then I would claim I did it because Pat Robertson said to do it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:18:36 PM EST
If the death penalty is against their beliefs and they believe that execution is evil, then why should one be surprised to hear them say that the execution of Saddam was evil?

Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:18:53 PM EST
I am Catholic and I don't think it was any of the Vatican's business. The US or it's allies didn't try or execute Saddam. He was tried, convicted by his own people under Muslim law. Since when have Muslim's ever consulted the Vatican regarding anything they do?
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:19:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Gracious.

Romans 13... better dust off the ol`bible! ;)


Yup.

One of the benefits of having learned a lot of scripture is that I can counter any silly libbie argument that is masked as a Biblical "teaching". People are wont to substitute their preferences for Bible teaching on many subjects.

Like the liberal the other day who told me Jesus was a socialist....


I can't really understand the "Jesus is socialist" BS. Yes, I'm sure Jesus would support social justice, but I just don't picture him agreeing with an ideology that would require him to abolish himself.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:22:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
If the death penalty is against their beliefs and they believe that execution is evil, then why should one be surprised to hear them say that the execution of Saddam was evil?



Its the political side that matters.

Its one think to preach about the death penalty..its another to preach about a specific incident, hence talking about Saddam.

If they wanted to make a sermon about the evils of the death penalty.. fine. I'll roll my eyes and muddle through it.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:34:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg


I can't wait to move to Utah!


Where I laugh is the southerners talking about a new civil war and such - when dang near EVERY population center center in the South went to Gore - which is th same pattern seen in every "Yankee state" save a few, like Massachusetts. The only places where significantly urban counties went to Bush were out west.


That's because the yankees move down here, but don't change the way they vote. They're trying to turn us into the shithole places they left and bitch about?

Also, there are still big groups of old southern yella dawg Dems here. Most of these rubes have no idea what either party/candidate stands for, they just vote Dem because that's what their family has always done.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:38:04 PM EST
I was a Presbyterian until they started lecturing me about "guns in the home."

I am no longer an active member.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:38:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg


I can't wait to move to Utah!


Where I laugh is the southerners talking about a new civil war and such - when dang near EVERY population center center in the South went to Gore - which is th same pattern seen in every "Yankee state" save a few, like Massachusetts. The only places where significantly urban counties went to Bush were out west.


That's because the yankees move down here, but don't change the way they vote. They're trying to turn us into the shithole places they left and bitch about?

Also, there are still big groups of old southern yella dawg Dems here. Most of these rubes have no idea what either party/candidate stands for, they just vote Dem because that's what their family has always done.


Ahhh, I see.

But the hippies in San Fran who flock here from all over the US and pollute this state are just "typical California libs."

The inconsistency is amusing.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:40:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Went something like this;

"When Saddam was executed, no one looked to the Vatican for advice. They never took head to the calls from the Pope or the leaders of the Church..."
The US government and the US military does not need to consult with the Vatican when it comes to executing tyrants. I think it's idiotic that they would have a sermon like that, yes, go find another church.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:42:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Went something like this;

"When Saddam was executed, no one looked to the Vatican for advice. They never took head to the calls from the Pope or the leaders of the Church..."
The US government and the US military does not need to consult with the Vatican when it comes to executing tyrants. I think it's idiotic that they would have a sermon like that, yes, go find another church.


The US govt. did not kill Hussein. The Iraqi govt. did.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 1:48:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I suppose I should posts this again for those who are still brainwashed into this "blue state versus red state" nonsense:

images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg


I can't wait to move to Utah!


Where I laugh is the southerners talking about a new civil war and such - when dang near EVERY population center center in the South went to Gore - which is th same pattern seen in every "Yankee state" save a few, like Massachusetts. The only places where significantly urban counties went to Bush were out west.


That's because the yankees move down here, but don't change the way they vote. They're trying to turn us into the shithole places they left and bitch about?

Also, there are still big groups of old southern yella dawg Dems here. Most of these rubes have no idea what either party/candidate stands for, they just vote Dem because that's what their family has always done.


Ahhh, I see.

But the hippies in San Fran who flock here from all over the US and pollute this state are just "typical California libs."

The inconsistency is amusing.


That's because the hippies started flocking there over 40 years ago and are now deemed locals. The northeast yankees haven't been here in the same numbers for as long and are just considered snowbirds by most still. Another decade or two and we'll be in the same boat as CA when it comes to a few major metro areas deciding the vote for the rest us.
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 2:28:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Ahhh, I see.

But the hippies in San Fran who flock here from all over the US and pollute this state are just "typical California libs."

The inconsistency is amusing.


Yes, they are typical California Libs.

They are attracted to San Fransisco because it is a beacon of stupid that draws their kind away from places near where I live.

Being a San-Fran worthy lib isn't about geography...it is a state of mind.
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