Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 9/13/2004 11:08:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 8:27:25 PM EST by The_Macallan]

I don't think I've seen a single report on TV, radio or in print over the last week (and ESPECIALLY yesterday and today) that wasn't topped off with some kind of misrepresentation, omission or outright LIES regarding the AWB.

I just have to get a "Talking Points" list and spread it and MAYBE someone will actually start getting it right.

If you think of any more, add them.



Getting The Facts STRAIGHT


1. "Assault weapons" are NOT "machine guns".
They are "semi-automatic" meaning one pull of the trigger=one bullet discharged while the next bullet is then chambered ready for the next trigger pull. "Assault weapons" are not full-auto firearms and they do NOT "spray" bullets with a single pull of the trigger.
"ASSAULT WEAPONS" ARE NOT MACHINE-GUNS.



2. The Columbine-Killers did not violate any provision of the "Assault Weapon" ban.
The firearms used in Columbine included two shotguns (like those used for duck hunting), a pistol and a legally-produced TEC-9 "assault weapon". The AWB did not stop those two UNDERAGE killers from illegally acquiring them or illegally bringing them to school or illegally murdering 13 people.
THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" BAN DID NOT TAKE GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CRIMINALS.



3. The "Assault Weapon" Ban did NOT actually ban "assault weapons"
The ban only prohibited the NEW PRODUCTION of certain firearms based on cosmetic features. There were hundreds of thousands of "assault weapons" legally owned, bought and sold before the ban was implemented - and there were STILL hundreds of thousands of "assault weapons" legally owned, bought and sold during the past 10 years of the ban's existance.
EXISTING "UZIs, AR-15s AND AK-47s" HAVE STILL BEEN COMPLETELY LEGAL TO OWN, BUY AND SELL FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.



4. The "Assault weapon" Ban had NOTHING to do with silencers.
One of the cosmetic features addressed by the "Assault Weapon" Ban was 'flash-suppressors' which simply reduce the bright muzzle-glare ONLY in the eyes of the shooter in low-light conditions. Flash-suppressors do NOT "hide" the bright flash from any other observer and do NOT "silence" the very loud report of the gunshot sound.
"FLASH-SUPPRESSORS" ARE NOT "SILENCERS" AND DO NOT MAKE A SHOOTER "INVISIBLE" AT NIGHT.



5. The "Assault Weapon" Ban is NOT the same thing as the "Brady Law".
The "Brady Law" (named after James Brady) which began the national instant background check for all firearm sales through dealers is STILL in force and has NOTHING to do with the "Assault Weapon" ban.
THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" BAN EXPIRATION HAS NO EFFECT ON THE BRADY LAW WHATSOEVER.



6. Studies have clearly demonstrated that the "Assault Weapon" ban has "FAILED" to reduce gun-murders:
"We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests."
5.2.3. Assault Weapons and Crime -
"...assault weapons do not appear to be used disproportionately in violent crime relative to other guns"
"Overall, assault weapons accounted for about 1% of guns associated with homicides, aggravated assaults, and robberies" and
"only 2% of guns associated with drug crimes were assault weapons."

5.2.4. Unbanned Handguns Capable of Accepting Large-capacity Magazines -
"The ban on large-capacity magazines does not seem to have discouraged the use of these guns."
6.2.1. Trends in Multiple-Victim Gun Homicides -
"[Studies] failed to produce any evidence that the ban reduced the number of victims per gun homicide incident."
6.3.4. Conclusions -
"[Studies] failed to produce evidence of a post-ban reduction in the average number of gunshot wounds per case or in the proportion of cases involving multiple wounds."
6.4.2. Assault Weapons and Homicides of Police Officers -
"In sum, police officers are rarely murdered with assault weapons."
THE DENFINITIVE CONGRESSIONAL REPORT (linked here) ON THE "ASSAULT WEAPON" BAN SHOWED IT "FAILED" TO REDUCE GUN-MURDERS.



7. The 2nd Amendment is NOT about "duck hunting".
Military-style firearms (like "assault weapons") are specifically protected by the 2nd Amendment according to the U.S. Supreme Court rulings in U.S. v. Miller (1939) and Lewis v. U.S. (1980).
* In the Miller decision the Supreme Court stated, "In the absence of any evidence tending to show that [a particular gun] has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument".
* In the Lewis decision, the Supreme Court stated, "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia'".
SO ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT, MILITARY-STYLE FIREARMS ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF FIREARMS THAT ARE PROTECTED BY THE 2ND AMENDMENT.



8. Nobody NEEDS to infringe on the 2nd Amendment in order to reduce crime.
Our RIGHTS do not ebb and flow or come and go with the annual crime reports.
Our RIGHTS do not depend upon what today's gangbangers or psychopaths decide to do to get their next thrill or rage out.
Our RIGHTS are not contingent upon, qualified by nor based on what CRIMINALS use to commit crimes!
Our RIGHTS are derived from natural law, specifically protected by the Constitution and are NOT dependant on the findings in any crime studies!!!
Banning the possession of "assault weapons" because of some crime statistics is like banning the possession of sports cars because of drunk driving deaths or like banning the possession of the boxcutters because of 9-11.
OUR RIGHTS ARE NOT PREDICATED ON THE MOST RECENT CRIME STATISTICS!


Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:18:13 AM EST
Great post!!!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:25:25 AM EST
The AWB does not have anything to do with silencers.

I have heard it said ten times today...'...silencers will be back on the street"
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:26:56 AM EST
You expect the 'facts', on network news?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:29:25 AM EST
Excellent post Mac!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:30:24 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:31:48 AM EST
I think the gun grabbers were testing us to see if we'd follow the law or ignore it. This info will be used to come up with more, stricter firearms laws in the future since we "passed"(or failed in my book) by blindly following their stupid attempt at infringments on our 2nd.Amend. Rights. If hundreds of Thousands of gun owners would have been arrested for non-complience then it would have sent a strong message to the gun grabbers that laws like this wouldn't work at disarming the American people but since we were all good little Sheeple they'll pull more of this crap on us in the future, you can bet on it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:33:32 AM EST
Everything to Sarah Brady is an assault weapon.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:34:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
The AWB does not have anything to do with silencers.

I have heard it said ten times today...'...silencers will be back on the street"

I'm I'm sick of that bullshit too.

I added that to the list.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:35:10 AM EST
Might as well face it, the media no longer reports the truth and are no longer interested in accurate facts pertaining to the "AWB."

The truth is out there, I just doubt the possibility that the media will present accurate facts.
Fear is their weapon and it's valuable to promote the agenda they push.

HS1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:36:23 AM EST
Persephone,

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...BUT your handle means ASSPHONE in Finnish. I shit you not. Pretty hilarious.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:36:38 AM EST
Someone with good photoshop skills needs to do this:

Take a basic pre-ban M4forgery (with lug, FS and tele-stock collapsed) and photograph it.

Take a basic post-ban M4forgery (w/o lug, with brake and with extended and pinned telestock) and photograph it in exactly the same way.

Put the two images together with text pointing out the differences.

Label the top one "Outlawed by the 1994 'Semi-Auto Assault Weapons ban'"

Label the bottom one "Perfectly legal for law-abiding citizens to purchase for the past 10 years"

That's the only thing I can think of that points out the INSANITY of what these fucksticks are whining about
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:37:34 AM EST
The AWB sunset does not affect the Brady Bill. Also a misfact generously spewed on the airwaves today!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:38:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
Persephone,

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...BUT your handle means ASSPHONE in Finnish. I shit you not. Pretty hilarious.




Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:41:09 AM EST
I can't get over the amount of press this stupid ass "ban" is getting!!!! You'd think the world was coming to an end. I'm tired of hearing about it. Damn news and anti-gun morons are putting too much light on the subject.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:44:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
Persephone,

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...BUT your handle means ASSPHONE in Finnish. I shit you not. Pretty hilarious.



Nice to know! Thanks for sharing.

No need for a special phone to call my ass, it's not that big yet.

Didn't get much mythology in school, did ya? Here ya go:

www.pantheon.org/articles/p/persephone.html
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:44:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:45:06 AM EST by CMOS]
Some wench reporter for the Houston Chronicle Commical wrote that grenade launchers could now be imported and manufactured in the US.


Unbeliveable.

CMOS
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:46:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 12:17:53 PM EST by Persephone]

Originally Posted By Misery:

Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
Persephone,

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...BUT your handle means ASSPHONE in Finnish. I shit you not. Pretty hilarious.







glad you find that funny.



PS, Mac: sorry to hijack, Really, all I wanted to do was tag your excellent post.

Had the same problem the other night on another board, and there response was mind numbing "we don't need any guns, so I don't care what the ban did or didn't do as long as it bans something and makes me "feel" better.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:48:39 AM EST
C'mon Eric, Sen. Feinstein admitted they could have written a better law. What kept them from it you ask? Not enough votes to completely ban them and confiscate them and put a red letter next to your house number.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:49:15 AM EST
Thanks for this post. I need a short, concise list of points that the AWB covered so I can read it, get mad, and then be prepared to educate any anti-gunner who tries to tell me what the AWB did or did not cover. Or at least I can bombard them with facts, since they don't seem to be able to get facts on their own.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:50:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:52:16 AM EST by the1_roadrunner]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Someone with good photoshop skills needs to do this:

Take a basic pre-ban M4forgery (with lug, FS and tele-stock collapsed) and photograph it.

Take a basic post-ban M4forgery (w/o lug, with brake and with extended and pinned telestock) and photograph it in exactly the same way.

Put the two images together with text pointing out the differences.

Label the top one "Outlawed by the 1994 'Semi-Auto Assault Weapons ban'"

Label the bottom one "Perfectly legal for law-abiding citizens to purchase for the past 10 years"

That's the only thing I can think of that points out the INSANITY of what these fucksticks are whining about



Here you go. My 12yo. His scary looking preban AR15 Gov Carbine on the left..... and his "oh so harmless looking" postban Match Target M4 on the right.
To hear these weapons fire? That damn postban brake is HELL!

--RR

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:54:09 AM EST
Mac, keep it up, great work.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:05:06 PM EST
Nice job! I'm going to print that out for future discussions.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:06:30 PM EST
Assclowns in the media.....
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:06:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:18:30 PM EST
One report said we could buy Street Sweepers today!

WooHoo!

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 12:54:06 PM EST
I found the quote...


FACT FILE Legal weapons

The 19 named assault-style firearms banned under a 1994 law that expires Monday:

AK-47 and all models of the Norinco, Mitchell and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs, designed in the former Soviet Union.

Uzi and Galil, both made by Action Arms Israeli Military Industries.

TEC-9, TEC-22 and TEC-DC9, manufactured by Intratec.

SWD M-10, M-11, M-11-9 and M-12. Based on the design of the MAC-10, their full-automatic cousin, these assault pistols are designed to fire many bullets over a wide area in seconds.

Street Sweeper and Striker 12 and other revolving cylinder semiautomatic shotguns.

Beretta AR-70 and SC-70, used by armed forces in a number of countries including Italy, Jordan and Malaysia.

Colt AR-15, the civilian version of the M-16 rifle that is the U.S. military’s standard-issue rifle.

Several weapons manufactured by Fabrique Nationale, the FN-FAL, FN-LAR and FNC. The guns are used by the armed forces of more than 90 countries.

Steyr AUG, a rifle made in Germany.



Source: Associated Press




I thought these were under the DD law in the mid 80's?

Help a brutha out with all this BS!

BigDozer66

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:09:19 PM EST
you should add something about the "loophole" argument libs use, that gun manufactureres "made cosmetic changes to get around the ban".



Link Posted: 9/13/2004 1:13:52 PM EST
Great post, stupid s don't want anybody to hear the truth, the media is just ignorant and biased
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:00:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:01:59 PM EST
... Saved!
(in case I ever call into a radio talk-show and need crib notes)
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:05:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:

Street Sweeper and Striker 12 and other revolving cylinder semiautomatic shotguns.




I thought these were under the DD law in the mid 80's?

BigDozer66



These are considered DD's and while not banned, are considered NFA and can no longer be manufactured.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:10:52 PM EST
Excellent list!

And how hard was it to put that together? It would appear you pulled off the impossible as our "respected" news outlets have failed to find such truth.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:23:05 PM EST
AMEN!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:24:25 PM EST
Good post. Tagged for Reference.

I keep hearing the "AK-47s will now be able to be purchased" bullshit and everyone is led to believe that full autos are now available to any crazy how wants one, thanks to the ban expiring.

What dumbasses!

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:25:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 2:26:40 PM EST by Atencio]
My local paper discussed the ending of the ban with this statement:

"Their education was quick, violent and deadly.
It happened Jan. 18.
Three Rancho Cucamonga families learned the horror and pain that a fully automatic assault weapon can bring.
Christopher Heyman, 17, and Blake Harris, 18, were shot to death at the 210 overpass near Haven Avenue in an apparent road rage incident."

The article went downhill from there if you can believe it.

So I wrote this letter to the editor which was difficult because the article had so much B.S. in it and I was limited to a 100 words for my letter.

"Why does Ms. Carter begin the article by discussing the horrors brought about by a fully automatic assault weapon? The assault weapon ban had nothing to do with fully automatic weapons. Why did Ms. Carter feel it needed to be included? One reason may be because there is very little crime committed by so called “assault rifles” and she needed a sensational opening to her article. Ms. Carter states the ban will end at midnight tonight. Yet the BATF, a reference she freely uses in the article, states that the ban ended effective 9-13-04 which would mean it is all ready over. I was of the opinion that reporting was supposed to be objective and presenting the facts."


I'll let you guys know if they print my letter.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:27:29 PM EST
I know how you feel. I've been chasing ice cream trucks all day and haven't found one uzi.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:31:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By painrx:
I know how you feel. I've been chasing ice cream trucks all day and haven't found one uzi.



I've got huge piles of them all over my yard...you want some??? It might be hard to drive down my street, though...it's covered in AK-47s...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:32:03 PM EST
thanks mac
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:34:32 PM EST
where are these UZI trees growing? and it must not have rained hard enough here because theres no AK-47 flooding the streets
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:36:25 PM EST
I've been on the road listening on the radio and at home all day. Every single network and local station has been blasting away with the same incredible ignorance! You are EXACTLY correct Mac...their lack of knowledge is simply STUNNING! The newsies simply don't have a clue.

I fear that if we can't educate America on this subject, we are going to see a reprise of the AWB, just as soon as the Democrats gain a position of strength in either congress or when they retake the White House.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:41:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Persephone:

Originally Posted By Misery:

Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
Persephone,

I'm sure it's just a coincidence...BUT your handle means ASSPHONE in Finnish. I shit you not. Pretty hilarious.







glad you find that funny.



PS, Mac: sorry to hijack, Really, all I wanted to do was tag your excellent post.

Had the same problem the other night on another board, and there response was mind numbing "we don't need any guns, so I don't care what the ban did or didn't do as long as it bans something and makes me "feel" better.



YOU are a credit to your gender and to your Commonwealth! We now know why when you return from the underworld around the time of the Vernal Equinox, our world once again become full of life and beauty.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:58:45 PM EST
Ya the only thing I've been hearing all day is that it's now legal to buy AK-47s and Uzis and how police throughout the country are bracing for more mass shootings. Hell it's on the front page of the BBC WORLD News right now!

So the liberals failed and now they are pumping the liberal media to try and get us in spite.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:02:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:23:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOA:

Originally Posted By BigDozer66:

Street Sweeper and Striker 12 and other revolving cylinder semiautomatic shotguns.




I thought these were under the DD law in the mid 80's?

BigDozer66



These are considered DD's and while not banned, are considered NFA and can no longer be manufactured.



But they didn't have anything to do with the AWB did they?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:31:51 PM EST
As posted by CRC

"Everything to Sarah Brady is an assault weapon."

She probly want to restrict the gun between or legs as well.

Rant off,

Badredfish
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:10:52 PM EST
CNN Headline News all day today, among a sprinking of stories admitting the AWB was little more than costmetic, kept repeating the phrase, "... the end of the law banning automatic and semiautomatic assault weapons."

They still don't get it, AWB had nothing to do with machineguns, legal or illegal.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:25:24 PM EST
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5946127/

The link to the story with the above list in it.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:34:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Saved!
(in case I ever call into a radio talk-show and need crib notes)


And if you ever need a contact list for talk-radio, here's the master-list:


National Talk Radio -

* Rush Limbaugh: rush@eibnet.com
Call 1-800-282-2882 between 12PM - 3PM Eastern Time.

* Sean Hannity: hannity@foxnews.com
Call 1-800-941-7326 between 3PM - 6PM Eastern Time.

* Tony Snow: tonysnow@foxnews.com?subject=For Tony
Call 1-866-408-7669 between 9AM - 12PM Eastern Time.

* Bill O'Reilly: oreilly@foxnews.com
Call 1-877-966-7746 between 12PM - 2 PM Eastern Time.

* Michael Savage: paulreveresociety@yahoo.com
Call 1-800-449-8255 between 5PM - 8PM Eastern Time. (IIRC)

* Micheal Medved: www.michaelmedved.com/contact.shtml
Call 1-800-955-1776 between 3PM - 6PM Eastern Time.

* Neal Boortz: boortz.com/cgi-bin/mail.cgi?id=boortz
Call 1-877-310-2100 between 10AM - 1PM Eastern Time. (IIRC)

* Larry Elder: sage@larryelder.com
Call 1-800-222-5222 between 6PM - 10PM Eastern Time.

* Dennis Prager: dennisprager@dennisprager.com
Call 1-877-243-7776 between 12PM - 3PM Eastern Time.

* G. Gordon Liddy: liddyshow2@aol.com
Call 1-800-445-4339 between 10AM - 2PM Eastern Time.

* Laura Ingraham: suggestions@lauraingraham.com
Call 1-800-876-4123 between 9AM - 12PM Eastern Time.

* Ken Hamblin: bac@compuserve.com
Call between 3PM - 6PM Eastern Time.

* Hugh Hewitt: hhewitt@hughhewitt.com
Call 1-800-520-1234 between 9AM-12PM Eastern Time (IIRC)

* Mike Gallagher: mike@mikeonline.com
Call 1-800-655-MIKE between 9AM - 12PM


Local Arizona Talk Radio -

* KFYI Talk Radio: Call (602) 258-5394
Bruce Jacobs 5AM-8AM
Barry Young 8AM-10AM
Liddy & Hill 4AM-7PM

National News Outlets -

* FoxNews Channel: 1-888-369-4762 - email: Comments@foxnews.com & Contact List

* CNN.com - Email Comments

* CBSNews.com- Email Comments

* ABCNews:
Contact List

* MSNBC News:
Contact List


Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:06:58 PM EST
I correct about 5 people today. And I didnt go out much.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:07:39 PM EST
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top