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Posted: 9/9/2005 1:02:05 PM EDT
After spending about a year reading arfcom I guess I've changed my mind. Reliance on the government to take care of the people is a mistake. The learned dependance causes problems. I've always felt strongly about having the right to defend myself 'cause nobody else is going to do it.

A couple weeks ago I ended up in a bar fight. This guy at the next table was totally sh!tfaced and was obviously in a walking blackout. He could barely make any sense of his surroundings. Something triggered him and he went off, just stubling around throwing sh!t at people and swinging randomly. He made contact with one of my friends and it was on immediately.

I haven't been in a fight since sophomore year of high school, and the other guy pounded me silly in about five seconds flat... it kind of left a bad (bloody) taste in my mouth and I made a point of not looking for trouble ever since.

Anyway, my friend gets attacked 100% at random, we empty the benches and so do the other guy's friends. It happened kind of quick, I don't think I actually made a decision to act, it was just kind of upon me. It was over before any more damage was done.

My friend was trying to take down the aggressor with some kind of grappling attack from his years as a wrestler, and one of the other side was kicking him in the back while I was engaged elsewhere. After it was over, I came to the realization that two of our guys were in a position to take out the guy kicking my friend in the back and did nothing. They were just horrified at the whole thing and didn't take action.

I guess you just have to count on yourself when trouble comes looking for you. Maybe it's kind of a stretch to generalize from that encounter to reliance on the government to watch out for your best interests, but somehow it clicked for me. Some guys wait for the bouncer to save their friends, and some guys take care of their own. Some guys do business with teeth and claw and build up wealth for themselves, and some guys line up and clock hours and wait for the promotion to come up and bite them on the ass. Some guys study hard in school and learn something useful and go pound out the bucks and some guys shuffle through the motions and leech.

That leads to a disparity and separates the wheat from the chaff. You end up with some really rich and powerful types that do and take and get the best women and the nicest cars and smoke the Fat Cigar.

On the other hand, you could level out everybody's achievements with a hardcore socialist state and distribute the wealth of the world evenly.

So, those are some of the choices to make.

I guess I was more convinced that the rich were plundering our nation's wealth for themselves, and I still think they are, and I'd like to see some kind of limits to the extreme things that happen with pollution and the like. I want to breathe clean air and drink clean water, and I don't like it that somebody feels they have the right to pollute our water and air without consideration to their fellow man, but I guess that's the price you pay to live in a place where freedom of action for the wealthy is so open. But at the same time I drive my car and pollute the air so I'm doing it too. I like my DVD player, and that never would have been possible if there were extreme restrictions on the manufacture of plastic and the generation of electricity and whatnot. My actions speak a lot louder than my words.

It'd be nice if we could pull off a more libertarian society.

Take a look at the aftermath of Katrina. It's pretty obvious that a lot of the looters were just making off with as much as they could take, and that most of the stuff they took wasn't going to do them any good anyway. It's a shame how that went down. If the people of NO had the mindset that they were going to pitch in with relief efforts and find a way to make themselves useful in the midst of the tragedy that was all around them I bet things would have gone a lot more smoothly and the problems down there would have been more to do with cleaning up and patching up and less with law enforcement and quelling the riots.

The guys that stayed to defend their property are the ones that were prepared and ready to roll. Disarming them is so incredibly problematic. If they were going to stay and keep their property and families safe and away from government relief centers then there's less of a strain on the whole system, right? Then law enforcement wouldn't have to worry about them and could get on with the business of cleaning up and rebuilding.

I understand the distaste for unions and social security and welfare and all those kinds of things now in a way that I didn't before. Still, we have this problem with what to do with people that are in need without creating a culture of dependancy.

When I go back and read DU it's kind of embarrasing. Such whiners and complainers, oh the government should do more and coddle more and take care of us (since we can't take care of ourselves).
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:07:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 1:12:45 PM EDT by Aviator]
Welcome to the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

Now, your next assignment is to draw down on someone and report back to us!

Aviator
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:09:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 1:09:42 PM EDT by Gaz]
You're almost there. Once you really realize most of the pollution of water, of the land, Global warming, etc. hype is BS.....then you'll truely be there.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:10:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:11:39 PM EDT
My sincere congratulations on your epiphany.


As you may already have concluded, most of us ultra-right-wingers don't want to starve babies and old folks and destroy the environment any more than you do...
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:13:54 PM EDT
Welcome to adulthood. Just a warning though; reality based thinking sucks (It does, however, beat the alternative).
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:13:55 PM EDT
Welcome back, Peak_Oil, long time.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:14:10 PM EDT
You know we gotta jump you in now, right Homie?
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:15:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:
You know we gotta jump you in now, right Homie?



Come git some!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:15:41 PM EDT
I am a convert like you. I am about 60% Republican and 40% Democrat. One of the things that changed for me is if you give people a small hand of money every month, they will take it and eke out an existence rather than aspire for better.

I am all for helping people get back on their feet, but there should be a limit of a few years to make people get off their backside.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Heartless capitalist!
I'm so proud




It's so tough watching them grow up... *sniff*

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:17:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:17:18 PM EDT
Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said (paraphrasing) "If you're young and conservative you have no heart, if you're old and liberal you have no brain?"

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:17:21 PM EDT
At least you articulate your "feelings" well.

The mere thought that grouping the poor together in special housing is any kind of sane action is ludicrous. If we really intend to help them it has to be as individuals, not as some mass of congealed humanity. That is a collectivist thought in itself. As an example, if the poor were distributed throughout NO, the chances of them getting a ride, getting better information, seeing examples of intelligent action etc. would have served them better than the promise of any mayor, governor, or President.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:18:58 PM EDT
I wish we could insert sound clips so we could let the "Alleluia" chorus ring out...
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:19:20 PM EDT
A liberal is often only one mugging disaster away from becoming a conservative.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:20:25 PM EDT
Is it April 1st?


EPOCH
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:22:13 PM EDT
Hippie Liberal Type: Peak_Oil, what happened to you, you've changed?!!?

Peak_Oil: I dunno, somethin' just hit me.


Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:22:45 PM EDT
Democrats give the poor a fish.

Republicans teach the poor how to fish.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:23:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:23:45 PM EDT
Armageddon,
Cats and dogs, be very afraid people the end is near.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:23:57 PM EDT
You were a liberal? [scoffs]
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:26:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:
Hippie Liberal Type: Peak_Oil, what happened to you, you've changed?!!?

Peak_Oil: I dunno, somethin' just hit me.





I couldn't get the idea of a piece of chicken out of my head for about a week and I gave in. Vegetarian no more. I was sitting there with a chunk of something's corpse in my hands chowing down with the juices running down my forearms with this big sh!t eating grin on my face and I said fvck it, this tastes great. I dunno.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:27:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
A liberal is often only one mugging disaster away from becoming a conservative.



Yep.......

Oh, and congrats on your enlightenment.......sorry it took an ass kickin'

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:29:03 PM EDT
Welcome to Reality and Life.

All my liberal neighbors are telling me how glad they are that I have all the guns I have. They get all pissy when I ask when they are getting their own. They still don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:30:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:
Hippie Liberal Type: Peak_Oil, what happened to you, you've changed?!!?

Peak_Oil: I dunno, somethin' just hit me.





I couldn't get the idea of a piece of chicken out of my head for about a week and I gave in. Vegetarian no more. I was sitting there with a chunk of something's corpse in my hands chowing down with the juices running down my forearms with this big sh!t eating grin on my face and I said fvck it, this tastes great. I dunno.



Welcome to the top of the food chain.

BTW, your buddy okay who was in the fight.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:30:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:31:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
You were a liberal? [scoffs]



Huge Nader fan. ACLU member. Birkenstocks. Gave money to the local full-on communist radio station. Punched a straight D ticket in every election. Vegetarian, socialized medicine, everything.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:40:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:42:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:44:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 1:45:57 PM EDT by SO-COM]

Originally Posted By ryann:
Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said (paraphrasing) "If you're young and conservative you have no heart, if you're old and liberal you have no brain?"




I guess I'm just an asshole then. 21 now and the last liberal thought I had was when I was maybe 10 or 11... I got curious and asked why everyone wasn't communist. Got told, "communism doesn't work, your money has got to be earned through hard work and innovative ideas. What motivation would you have to excel if you got paid as much as an unemployed guy who does nothing all day? Where would the innovative minds of the world today be if they had grown up in that system..." (more or less).
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:47:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bostonirish67:
Republicans teach the poor how to fish.

Democrats give the poor a smell like fish.



fixed.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:48:41 PM EDT
I am shocked.

Peak_Oil, congrats on the wise choice of choosing the party of do-it-yourself instead of the party of do-it-for-us.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:54:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
You were a liberal? [scoffs]



Huge Nader fan. ACLU member. Birkenstocks. Gave money to the local full-on communist radio station. Punched a straight D ticket in every election. Vegetarian, socialized medicine, everything.



Geez, if you weren't so far away I'd send you a couple big venison filet mignon steaks from deer I killed and butchered myself. You really need to hang out here full time--we'll have you straightened out in a few more months.

Seriously, I'm glad to hear it, Bro.



If I bag a pig this year I'll send YOU a chop, how bout that? I hear it's kind of tough to actually find one in CA, but if I do, I'll be dragging one home with me and mounting its head to hang on the wall.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:56:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zer04evr:
I am shocked.

Peak_Oil, congrats on the wise choice of choosing the party of do-it-yourself instead of the party of do-it-to-us.



Fixed.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 1:58:53 PM EDT
Peak, unless you've gone through the initiation, you're still a liberal.

You know the initiation, the one where you have to eat a baby, destroy a species and pollute a wilderness

Congrats on the epiphany.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:00:25 PM EDT
Jees we could have given you a good ass whipping a long time ago if we'd known that's all it would take!

Welcome to responsibity.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:02:25 PM EDT
Congrats Peak_Oil. Glad you have Freed Your Mind.

Eight years in LA, Kalifornistan changed me from a head-in-the-clouds liberal to a gun-crazed, hyper-capitalist, DIY, liberty-lovin, commie-slappin libertarian.

Welcome aboard and let's have some fun.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:03:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:05:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By qualityhardware:
Congrats Peak_Oil. Glad you have Freed Your Mind.

Eight years in LA, Kalifornistan changed me from a head-in-the-clouds liberal to a gun-crazed, hyper-capitalist, DIY, liberty-lovin, commie-slappin libertarian.

Welcome aboard and let's have some fun.



This summer is my 8-year anniversary of living in LA, CA. I have an SKS, a Mossy 500a, a MKII and a Glock foty 19 in my closet right now, getting ready to pack my bags and head for the mountains and forests of Oregon to build my own home with my own hands and to finally get a puppy GSD that won't have to spend its whole life cooped up in an apartment.

God Bless America.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:05:51 PM EDT

"Holy Shitcakes Batman, that sounded just like a pair of nuts dropping...!"
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:06:01 PM EDT
You learn who you friends are when it is time to fight, wether in a bar, war, court, illness or everyday life. Friends are easy when times are good, true friends are real when times are bad.

Sorry for you're rude awakening, but there is hope for everyone to turn the corner.

Never forget, there is no such thing as a 'fair' fight.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:09:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 2:13:06 PM EDT by zeekh]

Originally Posted By bostonirish67:
Democrats Liberals give the poor a fish.

Republicans Conservatives teach the poor how to fish.



Fixed it for you
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:10:14 PM EDT
You have had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:11:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:12:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 2:13:54 PM EDT by TheLibertarianMind]
Liberalism is a disease, your intellect was the cure.

I also recomend watching the TV show "Bullshit"
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRicker:
You need to rent the 1st and 2nd seasons of the Showtime Network's "Bullshit!" TV show, and watch the episodes dealing with environmental hysteria, recycling, gun control, war on drugs, P.E.T.A., second-hand smoke, etc.

Then, report back to us.



Seen em all, I'm a huge fan of P&T. I have an hour-long interview with Penn that I've listened to maybe five times. He talked about liberty and safety quite a bit and I agreed with him every step of the way. If I was going to pick somebody whose philosophy I agree with most strongly I'd say it's Penn. Maybe a better way to put it is that I aspire to live by his philosophy and take his direction as a guide.

It's a little weird to say that about a magician/comedian, but yeah.

You know who else I really admire philisophically? TJ from the survival forum. That guy really painted a picture for me. His childhood sounds like something out of a fairy tale to me it's so totally foreign. Sounds real nice, though, and I hope to recreate some of that when I get to Oregon. I guess we'll see how I do.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:17:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheLibertarianMind:
Liberalism is a disease, your intellect was the cure.

I also recomend watching the TV show "Bullshit"



Just be careful. For a liberal, being subjected to the truth may cause damage.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:18:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2005 2:32:17 PM EDT by AgentFork]
Yes. I agree. I'm glad you aren't nearly as left as you used to be.
Don't go too far right...heh...heh...heh...

What do I know, I'm a nutball Libertarian.

I'm not a huge fan of partisan politics. Don't align yourself blindly to either of the 2 big sides. Look at the issues. Too many morons (mostly liberal), blindly follow parties.

If everyone just undumbed and used common sense we'd be fine. But expect things to get worse, because the vast majority of people are severely retarded.

As far as young conservatives being heartless, I was a Reaganite at 4, thanks to my father. This probably means I have no soul. I recently went Libertarian. I like conservatives, but I disagree with them in a quite a few areas. That said, I can't stand fucking liberals. All of them are broke-dick pussies that whine when given any opportunity. Most of them don't whine because of a problem. Hell, half the time they have to think of something to whine about.

If I see one more person whining about "The Corporations", or our "fascist state", or bitching for people half-way across the world that are more hardcore and respectable than these lame, pampered college students, I am going to sock them in the teeth.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:20:27 PM EDT

Hey - don't be hatin' the Birkenstocks !

Link Posted: 9/9/2005 2:25:02 PM EDT
Peak_Oil,
Liberals, and their "feelings", are understood and well intentioned.
But the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Being Independent, and self reliant is the more honorable of choices.
Welcome, and thanks for posting your evolution.

myit
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