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Posted: 6/16/2009 2:30:45 PM EST



Right now I'm engaged in a debate with my classmates on this and they have not heard anything about it.

I couldn't remember... what laws were passed that they cannot take your guns during a catastrophic event (i.e. Katrina)? Was that at the Federal Level or State Level (Florida?)... both?

If so, can I get links to them...



Thanks!


Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:38:17 PM EST
It isn't during martial law, it's during a disaster. I forget the name of the law, but at the Federal level it says that no one receiving Federal funding can confiscate legally possessed or transported firearms during a crisis. Several states have passed similar laws saying that no one receiving State funding can confiscate legally possessed or transported firearms.

These laws have been completely disregarded multiple times. During the last hurricane that hit South Texas, State and Local LEOs reportedly confiscated firearms from people during forced evacuations and during evacuations prior to a hurricane that was due to hit, police confiscated firearms from people attempting to evacuate on public transportation, even though possession of a firearm on public transportation was not prohibited by law. Supposedly the BATFE sent agents around the tornado devastated towns in Kansas to scoop up firearms from destroyed homes. Don't hang your hat on the idea that the uniformed enforcers are going to necessarily let you go along your merry way in a disaster if you're packin'.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:40:43 PM EST
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:41:37 PM EST
The ignore any other laws during disasters/emergencies, why would they obey that one?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:42:26 PM EST
Yea well there's this thing called the constitution that was supposed to do it as well, but they said fuck it and did it anyways. The government will always break the law where they see fit.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:45:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2009 2:18:35 PM EST by molotov357]
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:46:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rattle_Snake:
Yea well there's this thing called the constitution that was supposed to do it as well, but they said fuck it and did it anyways. The government will always break the law where they see fit.


The problem with laws is that they are meaningless without enforcement.

The problem with THIS law is that it is a restriction on government and therefore it requires government to investigate and prosecute the offenders, who will be government troops, agents or officers. Now, if you take into consideration the fact that the current regime decided against prosecuting Black Panthers for the most blatant example of voter intimidation since the Civil Rights Movement, then you can pretty much determine the enthusiasm that this regime would exhibit towards the prospect of prosecuting government troops, agents or officers who confiscated legally owned or legally transported firearms in an SHTF scenario.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:46:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By molotov357:
After Katrina several states passed laws preventing confiscation.


They shouldn't have to pass a law preventing themselves from doing something they never had the legal power to do in the first place.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:47:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By molotov357:
After Katrina several states passed laws preventing confiscation.


They shouldn't have to pass a law preventing themselves from doing something they never had the legal power to do in the first place.


Doesn't matter. These laws have since been violated with impunity in Kansas, Louisiana and Texas.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:55:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:56:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 2:59:21 PM EST
South Carolina has a law like that.

It was enacted after the Katrina fiasco.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 3:08:43 PM EST
They should include a clause allowing the citizen to resist.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:02:34 PM EST
the 2nd Amendment
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:04:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By sharky30:
the 2nd Amendment


Is the stomping ground of the left and .gov. To hell with the 10th amendment in this times of letting the chosen one lead us to salvation






Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:04:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?



Who do you think?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:39:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By GaryM:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?



Who do you think?


IF LEO are opening fire on you for doing nothing wrong when in fact they are breaking the law, you have no ability to defend yourself?
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:46:53 PM EST
Ya know the problem with that law is there are no punishments for breaking it.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:52:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By GaryM:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?



Who do you think?


IF LEO are opening fire on you for doing nothing wrong when in fact they are breaking the law, you have no ability to defend yourself?


Not after they kill you and find an ounce of pot on your body.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:54:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By GaryM:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?



Who do you think?


IF LEO are opening fire on you for doing nothing wrong when in fact they are breaking the law, you have no ability to defend yourself?


Your word against their's, guess who gets the benefit of the doubt? Thats if you live through it.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:58:58 PM EST
What are they going to say? We tried to confiscate his weapons and he refused because it was against the law, so we opened fired on him? Ballistics don't lie either.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 4:59:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By Rattle_Snake:
Yea well there's this thing called the constitution that was supposed to do it as well, but they said fuck it and did it anyways. The government will always break the law where they see fit.


The problem with laws is that they are meaningless without enforcement.

The problem with THIS law is that it is a restriction on government and therefore it requires government to investigate and prosecute the offenders, who will be government troops, agents or officers. Now, if you take into consideration the fact that the current regime decided against prosecuting Black Panthers for the most blatant example of voter intimidation since the Civil Rights Movement, then you can pretty much determine the enthusiasm that this regime would exhibit towards the prospect of prosecuting government troops, agents or officers who confiscated legally owned or legally transported firearms in an SHTF scenario.


Problem is, not enough people are aware of this law

What we need is an actual Constitutional amendment, something clearly stating that we have a right to keep and bear arms. Maybe even with an indisputable statement like, "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

That might solve the problem.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:00:11 PM EST
A number of States (TN included) passed such legislation.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:01:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By the_naked_prophet:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By GaryM:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
Originally Posted By justsayin:
Originally Posted By Spyder7:
So what would happen if things got nasty and a shoot out occurred?


People would die.



After the bodies were piled up, who would be held responsible gun owner or LEO?



Who do you think?


IF LEO are opening fire on you for doing nothing wrong when in fact they are breaking the law, you have no ability to defend yourself?


Not after they kill you and find an ounce of pot on your body.




Or the child porn on your hard drive...



Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:03:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:05:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By molotov357:
After Katrina several states passed laws preventing confiscation.




IIRC most simply specified that the states (Fed as well) would not pay the bill for such activities. In theory being stuck with the bill is deterrent enough for some departments.


None allow the use of force or resistance.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:09:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By molotov357:
After Katrina several states passed laws preventing confiscation.




IIRC most simply specified that the states (Fed as well) would not pay the bill for such activities. In theory being stuck with the bill is deterrent enough for some departments.


None allow the use of force or resistance.


Read the TN law.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:14:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By molotov357:
After Katrina several states passed laws preventing confiscation.




IIRC most simply specified that the states (Fed as well) would not pay the bill for such activities. In theory being stuck with the bill is deterrent enough for some departments.


None allow the use of force or resistance.


Read the TN law.




Elaborate please?



Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:35:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 5:48:23 PM EST by TomHighway]
Here is the Federal statute:

TITLE 42. THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 68. DISASTER RELIEF
MISCELLANEOUS

42 USCS § 5207

§ 5207. Firearms policies

(a) Prohibition on confiscation of firearms. No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may––
(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;
(3) prohibit possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or
(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from the major disaster or emergency.


Here are the Florida statutes:

TITLE 17. MILITARY AFFAIRS AND RELATED MATTERS (Chs. 250-252)
CHAPTER 252. EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
PART I. GENERAL PROVISIONS


Fla. Stat. § 252.36 (2009)

§ 252.36. Emergency management powers of the Governor

(1) (a) The Governor is responsible for meeting the dangers presented to this state and its people by emergencies. In the event of an emergency beyond local control, the Governor, or, in the Governor's absence, her or his successor as provided by law, may assume direct operational control over all or any part of the emergency management functions within this state, and she or he shall have the power through proper process of law to carry out the provisions of this section. The Governor is authorized to delegate such powers as she or he may deem prudent.

(b) Pursuant to the authority vested in her or him under paragraph (a), the Governor may issue executive orders, proclamations, and rules and may amend or rescind them. Such executive orders, proclamations, and rules shall have the force and effect of law.

(2) A state of emergency shall be declared by executive order or proclamation of the Governor if she or he finds an emergency has occurred or that the occurrence or the threat thereof is imminent. The state of emergency shall continue until the Governor finds that the threat or danger has been dealt with to the extent that the emergency conditions no longer exist and she or he terminates the state of emergency by executive order or proclamation, but no state of emergency may continue for longer than 60 days unless renewed by the Governor. The Legislature by concurrent resolution may terminate a state of emergency at any time. Thereupon, the Governor shall issue an executive order or proclamation ending the state of emergency. All executive orders or proclamations issued under this section shall indicate the nature of the emergency, the area or areas threatened, and the conditions which have brought the emergency about or which make possible its termination. An executive order or proclamation shall be promptly disseminated by means calculated to bring its contents to the attention of the general public; and, unless the circumstances attendant upon the emergency prevent or impede such filing, the order or proclamation shall be filed promptly with the Department of State and in the offices of the county commissioners in the counties to which the order or proclamation applies.

(3) An executive order or proclamation of a state of emergency shall:

(a) Activate the emergency mitigation, response, and recovery aspects of the state, local, and interjurisdictional emergency management plans applicable to the political subdivision or area in question; and

(b) Be authority for the deployment and use of any forces to which the plan or plans apply and for the use or distribution of any supplies, equipment, and materials and facilities assembled, stockpiled, or arranged to be made available pursuant to ss. 252.31-252.90 or any other provision of law relating to emergencies.

(c) Identify whether the state of emergency is due to a minor, major, or catastrophic disaster.

1. For a major or catastrophic disaster, the proclamation is authority for a health care practitioner licensed in another state to assist in providing health care in the disaster area according to the provisions specified in the proclamation.

2. For a catastrophic disaster, the proclamation constitutes a formal request for mobilization of the military, which shall be communicated to the President of the United States.

(4) During the continuance of a state of emergency, the Governor is commander in chief of the Florida National Guard and of all other forces available for emergency duty. To the greatest extent practicable, the Governor shall delegate or assign command authority by prior arrangement embodied in appropriate executive orders or rules, but nothing herein restricts the Governor's authority to do so by orders issued at the time of the emergency.

(5) In addition to any other powers conferred upon the Governor by law, she or he may:

(a) Suspend the provisions of any regulatory statute prescribing the procedures for conduct of state business or the orders or rules of any state agency, if strict compliance with the provisions of any such statute, order, or rule would in any way prevent, hinder, or delay necessary action in coping with the emergency.

(b) Utilize all available resources of the state government and of each political subdivision of the state, as reasonably necessary to cope with the emergency.

(c) Transfer the direction, personnel, or functions of state departments and agencies or units thereof for the purpose of performing or facilitating emergency services.

(d) Subject to any applicable requirements for compensation under s. 252.43, commandeer or utilize any private property if she or he finds this necessary to cope with the emergency.

(e) Direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from any stricken or threatened area within the state if she or he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other emergency mitigation, response, or recovery.

(f) Prescribe routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with evacuation.

(g) Control ingress and egress to and from an emergency area, the movement of persons within the area, and the occupancy of premises therein.

(h) Suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles. However, nothing contained in ss. 252.31-252.90 shall be construed to authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in the commission of a criminal act.


TITLE 46. CRIMES (Chs. 775-896)
CHAPTER 870. AFFRAYS; RIOTS; ROUTS; UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLIES

Fla. Stat. § 870.044 (2009)

§ 870.044. Automatic emergency measures

Whenever the public official declares that a state of emergency exists, pursuant to s. 870.043, the following acts shall be prohibited during the period of said emergency throughout the jurisdiction:

(1) The sale of, or offer to sell, with or without consideration, any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description.

(2) The intentional display, after the emergency is declared, by or in any store or shop of any ammunition or gun or other firearm of any size or description.

(3) The intentional possession in a public place of a firearm by any person, except a duly authorized law enforcement official or person in military service acting in the official performance of her or his duty. Nothing contained in this chapter shall be construed to authorize the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a person is engaged in a criminal act.


If you want links, you will have to search in a public database using the above citations. I cannot give you a link to the database where these came from.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:38:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Originally Posted By Rattle_Snake:
Yea well there's this thing called the constitution that was supposed to do it as well, but they said fuck it and did it anyways. The government will always break the law where they see fit.


The problem with laws is that they are meaningless without enforcement.

The problem with THIS law is that it is a restriction on government and therefore it requires government to investigate and prosecute the offenders, who will be government troops, agents or officers. Now, if you take into consideration the fact that the current regime decided against prosecuting Black Panthers for the most blatant example of voter intimidation since the Civil Rights Movement, then you can pretty much determine the enthusiasm that this regime would exhibit towards the prospect of prosecuting government troops, agents or officers who confiscated legally owned or legally transported firearms in an SHTF scenario.


Problem is, not enough people are aware of this law

What we need is an actual Constitutional amendment, something clearly stating that we have a right to keep and bear arms. Maybe even with an indisputable statement like, "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

That might solve the problem.


What you did there... Saw it...

I'm watching you... Trouble maker...
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 5:43:34 PM EST
It was passed in 1788. It's called Tthe second amendment to The United States Constitution and you'll find it in The Bill Of Rights.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:21:52 PM EST
Any law "on the books" doesn't mean jack shit in the "here and now" of any LE knocking on your door to confiscate your personally owned weapons. If a squad of patrol or SWAT officers show up with the intent, you can argue until you're blue in the face and they'll just tackle you and cart you off for "resisting". Any of you that believe differently just because the state legislature passed a "law" are fooling yourself. By the time said agency has gotten the "word" that they can't do that, it'll be up to the courts to sort things out. You'll have lost your weapons, and any point of having them for the duration of the natural disaster or whatever will be moot. You'll be disarmed because you surrendered your liberty and only means of self defense to a few guys in uniform that are operating outside the boundries of the law, just because they say they can.

Whatever happens, they'll "close ranks" and fight tooth and nail in the aftermath to justify their response to your resistance. You probably won't even be alive to defend yourself if you don't "cooperate", so you may as well make up your mind now what your priorities are, and how badly you want to have the means to defend yourself and your family. It's all about your mindset, and it's a huge fucking leap to adjust to that reality. Huge.

Prepare your mind now, because you won't have time to do so when it happens.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:24:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2009 7:29:52 PM EST by 1776-1865_RIP]
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=2826

Almost two years ago, the nation watched in horror as Hurricane Katrina devastated large parts of Louisiana and the Gulf Coast. Many residents of the "Sportsman's Paradise" fell victim to Katrina's intense winds and powerful storm surges. Unfortunately, countless Louisiana residents were victimized a second time as New Orleans authorities began confiscating firearms from law-abiding residents. At a time when 9-1-1 was non-existent and law enforcement was stressed with search and rescue missions, law-abiding citizens of New Orleans were left to the mercy of roving looters, robbers and thugs. This breakdown of civil order demonstrated the importance of our Right to Keep and Bear Arms and became a proving ground for what American gun owners have long feared: the day government bureaucrats would use a state of emergency to trample on the Second Amendment.


Vowing that such a travesty would never occur again, NRA made passage of legislation to prohibit federal, state and local authorities from confiscating lawfully owned firearms during declared states of emergency our top national priority. Last year, Louisiana Congressman Bobby Jindal, horrified by what he had seen in the wake of Katrina, introduced the "Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act" H.R. 5013 in the U.S. House of Representatives. H.R. 5013 overwhelmingly passed the House on July 25, 2006 with a broad bi-partisan margin of 322-99. Senator David Vitter (R-La) introduced the Senate version of the bill, a version of which passed the U.S. Senate by 84-16, the largest margin of victory for a NRA-backed measure.


On October 4, 2006, President Bush signed this legislation into law. This law now ensures that state and local governments can't disarm law-abiding gun owners during a declared state of emergency. We promised to do everything necessary to ensure that anti-gun politicians would never again declare the Second Amendment null and void and working with Second Amendment champions like Representative Bobby Jindal and Senator David Vitter, we were able to deliver on that promise.
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