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Posted: 1/6/2006 9:53:10 PM EDT
They transferred me to a guy whose job it is to answer questions from the general public. Here's what that guy said to me.

He said that the DoE is aware of the issue of peak oil. They are of the opinion that it is inevitable that oil production will peak. They have read Matthew Simmons' book Twilight in the Desert and have no comment on the conclusions it comes to. They paid for the Hersch Report and have no reason to dispute its conclusions.

This is what they are doing as a result of their awareness. They are monitoring global oil supplies. That's it. Also, I asked if there is any plan B. The Department of Energy reply is that there is no plan B. Specifically, ethanol and biodiesel are NOT plan B. Nuclear and solar and wind are not plan B. ANWR is also not plan B. Increasing our oil production within the national territory of the United States is not on their radar, they said that we will not be increasing production here at home.

They said very specifically that there is no plan B for providing the US with energy once oil production peaks and begins to drop off.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:55:27 PM EDT
I wish I had gotten in on the ground floor of Thermal Depolymerization. That's some damned interesting stuff right there.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:58:05 PM EDT
I suppose they haven't got a plan b for when the sun supernovas either? fucking amateurs
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:08:24 PM EDT
Its still shiny side out, right?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:09:03 PM EDT
Politicians don't give a flying fuck about anything that will occur beyond their next election.

"Peak oil" (if it happens) won't come for awhile so they figure they'll be gone or if still in office, they can blame it on the "other guy". Hell, it's worked perfectly for them so far for everything else that's happened.

Bureaucrats don't give a shit either. They do their jobs to the letter of the law (or at least have someone else lined up to take the fall for their fuckups) and just keep shuffling paper, checking boxes and filing it away.

Yeah, I'm pretty well fed up and don't have one iota of faith left in ANYTHING that is associated with government. It's just a huge money sucking waste for the most part. It's simply a man-made version of a singularity. It eats, it grows and therefore it can eat more... lather, rinse, repeat until there is nothing left within range to devour.

Yeah, I'm in a shitty mood tonight
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:10:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
They transferred me to a guy whose job it is to answer questions from the general public. Here's what that guy said to me.

He said that the DoE is aware of the issue of peak oil. They are of the opinion that it is inevitable that oil production will peak. They have read Matthew Simmons' book Twilight in the Desert and have no comment on the conclusions it comes to. They paid for the Hersch Report and have no reason to dispute its conclusions.

This is what they are doing as a result of their awareness. They are monitoring global oil supplies. That's it. Also, I asked if there is any plan B. The Department of Energy reply is that there is no plan B. Specifically, ethanol and biodiesel are NOT plan B. Nuclear and solar and wind are not plan B. ANWR is also not plan B. Increasing our oil production within the national territory of the United States is not on their radar, they said that we will not be increasing production here at home.

They said very specifically that there is no plan B for providing the US with energy once oil production peaks and begins to drop off.





None of that worries me in the slightest.

The invisible hand will provide. Adam Smith or God, either is good.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:14:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
They transferred me to a guy whose job it is to answer questions from the general public. Here's what that guy said to me.

He said that the DoE is aware of the issue of peak oil. They are of the opinion that it is inevitable that oil production will peak. They have read Matthew Simmons' book Twilight in the Desert and have no comment on the conclusions it comes to. They paid for the Hersch Report and have no reason to dispute its conclusions.

This is what they are doing as a result of their awareness. They are monitoring global oil supplies. That's it. Also, I asked if there is any plan B. The Department of Energy reply is that there is no plan B. Specifically, ethanol and biodiesel are NOT plan B. Nuclear and solar and wind are not plan B. ANWR is also not plan B. Increasing our oil production within the national territory of the United States is not on their radar, they said that we will not be increasing production here at home.

They said very specifically that there is no plan B for providing the US with energy once oil production peaks and begins to drop off.





None of that worries me in the slightest.

The invisible hand will provide. Adam Smith or God, either is good.



Not to mention that energy production only accounts for a very small amount of the oil that we use in this country, most of it is wasted in cars and transportation. What is really important is the fact that almost all modern polymers and plastics absolutely depend on oil as part of their manufacture, and this is where it will hurt us. No more oil would mean no more PCBs for our computers, no more lightweight telestocks for our AR-15s(had to include this one), among other things.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:15:39 PM EDT
more likely that the guy just started to agree with you in order to shut your annoying ass up
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:19:28 PM EDT
If the peak oil people are right, what can anyone do about it?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:20:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
None of that worries me in the slightest.

The invisible hand will provide. Adam Smith or God, either is good.



I'm very, very interested in this "invisible hand" you claim will find service in our good, Doc.

BTW, and *off topic,*, how old are you? I figger with your military service to our NATO ally Denmark, you must be pushin, oh, 34 or so?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:21:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
They transferred me to a guy whose job it is to answer questions from the general public. Here's what that guy said to me.

He said that the DoE is aware of the issue of peak oil. They are of the opinion that it is inevitable that oil production will peak. They have read Matthew Simmons' book Twilight in the Desert and have no comment on the conclusions it comes to. They paid for the Hersch Report and have no reason to dispute its conclusions.

This is what they are doing as a result of their awareness. They are monitoring global oil supplies. That's it. Also, I asked if there is any plan B. The Department of Energy reply is that there is no plan B. Specifically, ethanol and biodiesel are NOT plan B. Nuclear and solar and wind are not plan B. ANWR is also not plan B. Increasing our oil production within the national territory of the United States is not on their radar, they said that we will not be increasing production here at home.

They said very specifically that there is no plan B for providing the US with energy once oil production peaks and begins to drop off.





None of that worries me in the slightest.

The invisible hand will provide. Adam Smith or God, either is good.



Oh, of course. Something will sweep out of the sky and provide free endless gasoline for all of us. No doubt about it! It will be called the "Deus Ex Machina" and it will excrete free gasoline. I can't wait! Actually, it will convert Liberals into oil, thus solving two problems simultaneously!

Also, God will make the oil fields full with new oil right now and we will continue to pump oil out of Texas and Saudi Arabia forever, and the market will solve all our problems. This is because God loves the United States and wants us all to be happy. Yes indeed.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:23:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MoparMike:
I wish I had gotten in on the ground floor of Thermal Depolymerization. That's some damned interesting stuff right there.



You can still get in on the ground floor of TD. Check out what Warren Buffet's son is doing. I bet that you could get Warren on the phone if you spent a day on it, and he'd tell you how to get in touch with his son.

TD only produces something like 500 barrels of oil a day. It's still ground floor time. We extract something like 82-85 million barrels a day... 500<85,000,000
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:24:09 PM EDT
I work for the California Dept. of Conservation making GIS maps of oil fields.

My job is secure.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:26:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
If the peak oil people are right, what can anyone do about it?



Peak_Oil, what do you think the answer is?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:27:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
If the peak oil people are right, what can anyone do about it?



Peak_Oil, what do you think the answer is?



kill off all DU trolls is a good start
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:30:53 PM EDT
Well, that's what I don't get. I think the oil supply must be finite but the question is will it last for another 20 years or 200,000. I never have heard what we're supposed to do about it, though. It just seems like the same old "oil is going to run out and we're all screwed" over and over. If we're screwed, what is there to talk about?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:33:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:34:59 PM EDT by TheRedHorseman]

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Well, that's what I don't get. I think the oil supply must be finite but the question is will it last for another 20 years or 200,000. I never have heard what we're supposed to do about it, though. It just seems like the same old "oil is going to run out and we're all screwed" over and over. If we're screwed, what is there to talk about?




and thus the problem with liberals is brought into the light. they whine and whine some more, but they never, ever come up with a plan.

and I say that if oil is finite, then just be a good capitalist and let the free market find a way.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:34:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
If the peak oil people are right, what can anyone do about it?



I think there are several things we can do about it. One is to push for the construction of light rail. Light rail uses 10% of the energy that trucks use to move goods from point A to point B. Light rail is good, more highways is bad.

Another is to push for the manufacture of solar cells for businesses and homes in the southwestern United States. The SW is the Solar Saudi Arabia, and we should make good use of our deserts as energy farms. This is possible and should be done immediately if not sooner.

Another is to push for plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles for personal transportation.

Another is to push for high speed maglev trains to connect major cities. Another is to plant a garden at home and reduce the need to bring fresh produce from New Zealand to the United States.

Another is to wall up the southern border of the US and kick every last illegal alien out of the US. More people means more resources used up.

There is a list as long as your imagination of things to do that will help us out.

In addition to mitigaing the effects of PO, all of these things address security issues in the US. Seal the southern border, no more Al Q members slipping through the cracks. Stop sending money to the Middle East... it's impossible to think of something that would make America safer. End our dependance on resources that do not exist within the national territory of the United States... this is nothing but good for us. Why do you want to get tied up in the internal politics of Bolivia and Venezuela and the Congo and places like that? Leave those weirdos alone and DEVELOP AMERICAN BUSINESS. This is what makes us and our families safe.

Every time you pump gas into your personal vehicle, you are sending money to Islamic fundamentalists that hate you. Remember this! There is no reason to send money to Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East that want nothing more than to blow themselves up in your presence, or to kill our boys that are deployed in that region. Stop sending them money. There is another way, it's by using American know-how and scientific advancement to figure out how to solve our own problems here at home, and by employing Americans to take care of us.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:39:22 PM EDT
Ok, conserve energy and find alternate sources. How long do you think we have before oil runs out?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:39:53 PM EDT
this has got to be either peak oil talking to himself or his roomie or something.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:49:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
this has got to be either peak oil talking to himself or his roomie or something.



No, I'm not peak oil and not his roommate. If you know of this guy, how long does he think we have before all the oil runs out?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:49:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Ok, conserve energy and find alternate sources. How long do you think we have before oil runs out?



The early 70s oil shocks were caused by 5% of world oil production going offline. We will see a decrease in oil production by an order of magnitude within seven years of oil production peaking.

I think oil production is pretty much peaking now, but we won't see a decrease in production til '08 at the earliest, '10 at tha latest. So, the first halving comes by 2015 on the early side and 2017 at the latest. Industrial civilization will have ceased completely by that time.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:52:21 PM EDT
So if we have 10 years, we're screwed anyway. How can we do this changeover to alternative energy in 10 years?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:55:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
this has got to be either peak oil talking to himself or his roomie or something.



No, I'm not peak oil and not his roommate. If you know of this guy, how long does he think we have before all the oil runs out?



We will never run out of oil. It will just get really expensive. A 10% depletion rate means a halving time of 7 years, give or take. I don't know what that means with regards to price. Oil production drops by 50%, I suppose that means that the bottom 50% of oil users are priced out of the market. And in another seven years another 50% are priced out. And in 21 years, another 50% are priced out, leaving only the richest 12.5% to drive their cars to work in the morning and to the store on the weekends.

Effectively, I think we might as well see ourselves as out of oil some time after the eighth halving time when only the richest 1% (roughly) can drive a car to work in the morning. At that point, I figure that the price of plastics, fertilizer, and medicine will be astronomically expensive as well, though I have no idea what the market for those things will look like at that time.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:58:26 PM EDT
There are some scientists that are challenging the idea of peak oil. The following is an article about this.
WND BOOKS
Forget everything you think you know about oil
'Black Gold Stranglehold' explodes common myths
Posted: October 18, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

If you believe that oil is a fossil fuel, be prepared to have your thoughts turned upside down.

If you believe that the U.S. has no choice but to rely on foreign oil until we ultimately run out of the precious resource, prepare to be challenged by new views that "have the opportunity to help give birth to a new generation of oil politics and economics."


WND Books' newest release, "Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil," by Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith, explores and debunks some of the popular myths surrounding the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption to provide Americans with beneficial information while being held in a virtual stranglehold at the gas-pumps.

In "Black Gold Stranglehold," Corsi and Smith expose the fraudulent science and irresponsible politics that have been sold to American people in order to enslave them. By debunking several myths, Corsi and Smith provide an outline for progress that would help to establish America as energy-independent.

Be prepared to be challenged by:

* The myth of fossil fuels: Corsi and Smith argue that the deep abiotic theory of oil is a more reliable theory than the fossil fuel theory. It rejects the contention that oil was formed from the remains of plant and animal life that died millions of years ago. Instead, they believe in Thomas Gold's argument that oil is abiotic: "a primordial material that the earth forms and exudes on a continual basis" and is "pushed upward toward the earth's surface by the intense pressures of the earth's core and the influence of the centrifugal force that the earth exerted upon the specific gravity of oil as a fluid substance."

* The running-out-of-oil myth: The 1970s scientific study known as Hubbert's Peak, predicting we would exhaust oil reserves by 2003, has been proven false. We are currently sitting on "more proven petroleum reserves than ever before despite the increasing rate at which we are consuming petroleum products. New and gigantic oil fields are being discovered at an increasing rate, in places the fossil fuel theory would never have been predicted as possible.

* The global warming hoax and other environmental myths: Corsi and Smith present compelling evidence that "burning fossil fuels does not release into the air chlorofluorocarbons or halon compounds, the types of chemicals identified as the culprits causing holes in the ozone." Instead, "human beings breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide" while "plants absorb carbon dioxide and throw out oxygen."

* The folly of oil conservation: "Black Gold Stranglehold" presents and documents how no alternative energy option has been able to provide enough energy and how each alternative has been deemed uneconomical.

* Oil playing a part in the illegal-immigration problem: Mexico has the third largest proven reservoirs of crude oil in the Western Hemisphere behind Venezuela and the U.S. As a result, the United States imports virtually all the oil Mexico exports. Consequently, "the U.S. government finds it difficult to take a systematic, hard look at the nearly free flow of illegal immigrants coming across our southern border. As a hedge against instability in the Middle East, the U.S. government has to calculate our oil needs when considering any steps we take regarding Mexico or illegal immigrants.

* The value of the dollar and its effect on terrorism: "In recent years the buying power of the dollar has decreased 40 percent on the average against all major foreign currencies. Since dollars can no longer be exchanged for gold, no hard, fixed commodity stands behind the U.S. international payments, including oil purchases. Osama bin Laden's "war against America was fueled by his belief that the U.S. has stolen the oil of Muslim countries. At the core of the issue is bin Laden's perception that America has paid for oil, a hard commodity, with paper dollars that are no longer backed as they once were by the hard commodity of gold."

* How high the price of oil?: "Today, the U.S. oil industry is sitting on a quantity of oil reserves that has never been higher. Still, we have built no new refineries, and the refineries in operation are producing at or near capacity. The picture that emerges is one of industry conglomerates simply sitting on large reserves and waiting for oil prices to go even higher. At some point, increased gasoline prices become an inevitable drag on the economy."

* Terrorism and Its Threat to Oil: Terrorists are "willing to bet that the U.S. will not be able to afford politically or economically a protracted global war against radical Islamic terrorism. Terrorists, like governments determined to impose price controls on oil, act to disrupt free markets. In doing so, they clearly understand the economic harm they can inflict."

Corsi and Smith believe that America can and will become energy independent if some steps are taken to correct the aforementioned problems. In addition, they not only meticulously lay out the problems facing American oil interests, but have developed a seven-step action toward U.S. Oil Independence by:

Promoting scientific research to investigate alternative theories.

* Expediting leases offshore and in Alaska to encourage oil exploration.

* Providing tax credits for deep-drilling oil exploration.

* Creating an oil research institute to serve as a clearinghouse of oil industry information.

* Developing a public broadcasting television series devoted to the oil industry.

* Reestablishing a gold-backed international trade dollar.

* Establishing tax incentives for opening new refineries in the U.S.

In the end, "Black Gold Stranglehold" not only provides solutions, but it will empower consumers and oil industry professionals to drastically change the debate about oil. This book is sure to cause thoughtful people to reconsider the U.S. dependence on foreign oil and its effects on our economy.

"Black Gold Stranglehold: The Myth of Scarcity and the Politics of Oil" is available at ShopNetDaily.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:02:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
So if we have 10 years, we're screwed anyway. How can we do this changeover to alternative energy in 10 years?



You will not sleepwalk your way into infinite energy. Consider that idea to be dead. You're going to have to think about your energy consumption.

Spend your money on alternative energy sources or do without. It is going to be more expensive, but what's the alternative? Reduce your usage of energy. A kilowatt saved is a kilowatt EARNED.

Turn off the lights when you leave the room. Turn off your hot water heater when you're not using it. You think natural gas is infinite? Think again.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:05:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
We will never run out of oil. It will just get really expensive. A 10% depletion rate means a halving time of 7 years, give or take. I don't know what that means with regards to price. Oil production drops by 50%, I suppose that means that the bottom 50% of oil users are priced out of the market. And in another seven years another 50% are priced out. And in 21 years, another 50% are priced out, leaving only the richest 12.5% to drive their cars to work in the morning and to the store on the weekends.

Effectively, I think we might as well see ourselves as out of oil some time after the eighth halving time when only the richest 1% (roughly) can drive a car to work in the morning. At that point, I figure that the price of plastics, fertilizer, and medicine will be astronomically expensive as well, though I have no idea what the market for those things will look like at that time.



Well if everything else goes to hell, we can still be jealous of rich people. I don't see any solutions here, just a lot of fear mongering used to push an environmentalist agenda. Real concern for our environment is a noble thing, but too often it seems to be just a vehicle to increase the size of government and control people's lives. You can't promote this idea of a huge environmental and economic problem with no solution and then in turn offer a solution that won't work. Especially if that solution conveniently fits a political agenda. People will see through it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:06:44 PM EDT
More things to do! Develop battery technology so that personal vehicles can travel 100 miles in a day. Conserve energy at least a little bit in your own personal lives. Turn off the TV when you're not watching it. Try to combine your trips so that you can get more done with less driving. Use power at night when power plants can't shut down to charge batteries that you can use during the day. Turn off your air conditioning when it's hot outside. This is a HUGE use of energy.

Also, I'd like to introduce the Rule of 72 to this conversation. Most stock market investors should know this one. Take your rate of return and divide it into 72, and that gives you your doubling time. An 8% rate of return doubles your investment in nine years. An annual 8% loss cuts your investment in half in the same amount of time, nine years.

According to the best information I'm aware of, once the peak of oil production is reached and we are in terminal decline, oil production will drop by somewhere between 10 and 18% per year. Check this site for the information. He is a credible source, I would be inclined to trust him. He's a member of Cheney's energy committee as well as CEO of the largest energy bank in the United States. And a personal friend of George Bush.

If oil production drops by 10% per year, then oil production will drop by 50% in seven years.

That means that your personal consumption of oil will drop by 50% within seven years whether you like it or not. Also, in the following seven years, your consumption will drop by 50% again. And in the following seven years, your consumption of oil will drop by another 50%. Leaving you with 12.5% of the oil you consumed in 2006. Seeing as how this is going to happen anyway, it only makes sense to plan for it and decide to go ahead and deal with reality before reality decides to deal with you.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:07:20 PM EDT
Bla, bla, bla. Anyone who thinks this is an issue has no clue how business works. They are the same type of people who tried to get everybody worked up about the "Y2K" bug because 1) They didn't bother to actually learn about it and 2) They think business owners are so stupid that they won't devote resources to solve problems that might cause the end of said business.

When it becomes feasible to do so, we will have alternative energy sources. We are already seeing more hybrid vehicles. Other crap is being researched. While you are trying to get everyone to pee their pants people getting paid good money are planning in corporate board rooms you will never see and will never hear about.

Do you really think all the auto companies are sitting around saying "well, looks like we have about 10 years to keep selling cars until everything goes tits up. My bugout bag is ready!"

There is currently no "magic" energy source, so what the hell is your plan anyway? If we run out of oil, we run out of oil. No amount of wetting your bed will change whether that will or will not happen. So what is your point? So eventually we'll either pay more for alternative energy sources or someone will have come up with something we don't know about yet. The beauty of it is whoever does that stands to gain a lot of money, so there is a huge incentive to try to do so.

I know this won't change anybody's mind, because even though I'm a software dev I couldn't get any Y2K freaks to listen to me. That was easy though, I just said "Fine, wait until the year 2000 and we'll talk again". So, if the whole world grinds to a halt someday Peak_oil you can say you told us so OK?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:07:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
They transferred me to a guy whose job it is to answer questions from the general public. Here's what that guy said to me.

He said that the DoE is aware of the issue of peak oil. They are of the opinion that it is inevitable that oil production will peak. They have read Matthew Simmons' book Twilight in the Desert and have no comment on the conclusions it comes to. They paid for the Hersch Report and have no reason to dispute its conclusions.

This is what they are doing as a result of their awareness. They are monitoring global oil supplies. That's it. Also, I asked if there is any plan B. The Department of Energy reply is that there is no plan B. Specifically, ethanol and biodiesel are NOT plan B. Nuclear and solar and wind are not plan B. ANWR is also not plan B. Increasing our oil production within the national territory of the United States is not on their radar, they said that we will not be increasing production here at home.

They said very specifically that there is no plan B for providing the US with energy once oil production peaks and begins to drop off.





None of that worries me in the slightest.

The invisible hand will provide. Adam Smith or God, either is good.



+1
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:09:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
You will not sleepwalk your way into infinite energy. Consider that idea to be dead. You're going to have to think about your energy consumption.

Spend your money on alternative energy sources or do without. It is going to be more expensive, but what's the alternative? Reduce your usage of energy. A kilowatt saved is a kilowatt EARNED.

Turn off the lights when you leave the room. Turn off your hot water heater when you're not using it. You think natural gas is infinite? Think again.



No, in fact when I said I thought oil must be finite that's what I meant. But you yourself said we have 11 years before the end of industrial civilization. If that's true, then that's it. Either the peak oil boogeyman is real or it isn't. It can't exist when you want to push your agenda, but then not exist anymore when you get your way.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:14:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:15:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarryStone:

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
You will not sleepwalk your way into infinite energy. Consider that idea to be dead. You're going to have to think about your energy consumption.

Spend your money on alternative energy sources or do without. It is going to be more expensive, but what's the alternative? Reduce your usage of energy. A kilowatt saved is a kilowatt EARNED.

Turn off the lights when you leave the room. Turn off your hot water heater when you're not using it. You think natural gas is infinite? Think again.



No, in fact when I said I thought oil must be finite that's what I meant. But you yourself said we have 11 years before the end of industrial civilization. If that's true, then that's it. Either the peak oil boogeyman is real or it isn't. It can't exist when you want to push your agenda, but then not exist anymore when you get your way.



It is real.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:16:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 11:21:18 PM EDT by SNorman]

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
bla bla bla bla bla bla

In addition to mitigaing the effects of PO, all of these things address security issues in the US. Seal the southern border, no more Al Q members slipping through the cracks. Stop sending money to the Middle East... it's impossible to think of something that would make America safer. End our dependance on resources that do not exist within the national territory of the United States... this is nothing but good for us. Why do you want to get tied up in the internal politics of Bolivia and Venezuela and the Congo and places like that? Leave those weirdos alone and DEVELOP AMERICAN BUSINESS. This is what makes us and our families safe.



So, your agenda really has nothing to do with "peak oil" at all does it?



Every time you pump gas into your personal vehicle, you are sending money to Islamic fundamentalists that hate you. Remember this! There is no reason to send money to Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East that want nothing more than to blow themselves up in your presence, or to kill our boys that are deployed in that region. Stop sending them money. There is another way, it's by using American know-how and scientific advancement to figure out how to solve our own problems here at home, and by employing Americans to take care of us.





OK, it's either all or nothing. If you believe this, then you should use ZERO gasoline. Do not drive a car. Do not use electricity if your local power company burns petroleum products. Do not ride on a bus that uses gas or diesel. Do not order anything from UPS. Do not send any mail.

Otherwise, you're no different than the guy who says "That damn crack dealer across the street is driving me crazy!!! Look at all those jackasses buying loads of crack from him. I only buy a *little* crack from him. <puffff> ahhhhh"


How about this: The more oil we use, the more we suck every other oil-producing country dry. If you *really* believe in "peak oil" then you believe we will, in fact, use up all of their oil right? And after that happens, won't those countries be pretty fucked? Hmm sounds like a good plan to me. Better than sucking our own oil resources dry right now. After we suck everyone else dry who's gonna be the man? We'll probably have alternative technology *and* a bunch of our own oil to mine too that we haven't been touching. I can't wait.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:17:40 PM EDT
This is what happens when you give a retard a drum.

BANG BANG BANG THE DRUM! BANG THE DRUM! YAY!! BANG BANG BANG BANG THE DRUM! YAAAAAYYY!!!

It's almost as bad as the daily dose of Mexican stuff from 22bad. Or Evolution threads with Garandman from a while back.

Obsess much?

I would think if things are as dire as you say, we're all fucked and there's nothing you can do about it. So you might as well bend over and kiss your ass goodbye...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:19:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
It is real.



Ok, it's real. I believe you. We have 11 years and then it's all over. I'll conserve all the energy I can and hopefully other people will too. Then we'll have 11 years and six months. What's the point?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By HarryStone:
If the peak oil people are right, what can anyone do about it?



I think there are several things we can do about it. One is to push for the construction of light rail. Light rail uses 10% of the energy that trucks use to move goods from point A to point B. Light rail is good, more highways is bad.

Another is to push for the manufacture of solar cells for businesses and homes in the southwestern United States. The SW is the Solar Saudi Arabia, and we should make good use of our deserts as energy farms. This is possible and should be done immediately if not sooner.

Another is to push for plug-in hybrids and fully electric vehicles for personal transportation.

Another is to push for high speed maglev trains to connect major cities. Another is to plant a garden at home and reduce the need to bring fresh produce from New Zealand to the United States.

Another is to wall up the southern border of the US and kick every last illegal alien out of the US. More people means more resources used up.

There is a list as long as your imagination of things to do that will help us out.



And we'll start doing all of them as soon as oil is expensive enough. There's no incentive to invest heavily in rail infrastructure with oil as cheap as it is.

When will I consider an electric or hybrid car? When gas is expensive.

When will I consider solar panels on my roof? When the cost of solar panels vs the cost of heating oil makes it worthwhile.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
This is what happens when you give a retard a drum.

BANG BANG BANG THE DRUM! BANG THE DRUM! YAY!! BANG BANG BANG BANG THE DRUM! YAAAAAYYY!!!




It's funny because it's true.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:34:16 PM EDT
I'm off to bed tonight.

Remember to call your Senators and make sure to say the words "peak oil" to them, make sure they understand. Call the mayor of your city, call the members of your state legislature, call the DoE, call everyone you can think of and demand action. You have nothing to lose and the world to gain.

Also, do not be an asshole to your friends and neighbors. If they want to talk about it then fine, otherwise just be a thorn in the side of your legislators.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:15:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:
Remember to call your Senators and make sure to say the words "peak oil" to them, make sure they understand. Call the mayor of your city, call the members of your state legislature, call the DoE, call everyone you can think of and demand action. You have nothing to lose and the world to gain.



How about, no?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:19:47 AM EDT

I'm not too worried about it, most of my vehicles, especially my daily driver is running on Biodiesel.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:23:43 AM EDT
Oil is renewable. There's no way there were enough dinosaurs and plants around to turn into so much oil. If there were enough, how did they get so far underground? We need to start drilling in the US and tell the enviro-whackos to eat shit and die. Maybe there will be enough of them to turn into oil in a few million years.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:25:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 9:51:00 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Have you oil trolls ever heard of Capitalism?
Right now, it is not profitable to invest in alternative fuels, otherwise Halibuton would be building home-use nuclear reactors for houses and vehicles.
When oil reserves and exploration starts to decline, it will become very profitable and the good ol' USA and its evil corporations will lead the way for the rest of the world.
Just like every time previous for the past 300 years or so.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:37:13 AM EDT
Here's what I'm going to do about it personally:

1: Buy a big ass Dodge diesel truck.
2: Buy a new car with a V8 in a couple of years.
3: Not worry for one second about it.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:42:35 AM EDT
Oil prices will steadily rise until shale oil becomes financially viable. And there is a SHITLOAD of it -- more in the US alone than there is crude in the whole Middle East. At that point, oil prices will stabilize. Then as the technology to harvest shale oil improves, prices will decline. Probably not back to current levels, but low enough to keep us from worrying about doom and gloom.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:47:44 AM EDT
Every theory posted on the internet is TRUE!!!!!!!!!! Run for your lives!!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:04:30 AM EDT
This 'Peak Oil Disaster In Waiting' ain't gonna happen.

Long before that, this country will be brought to its knees by illegal immigration, terrorists, or another attacking nation.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:15:33 AM EDT
the idea of abiotic oil is junk science. the evidence for it is so spare and so easily refuted, it is really little more than wishful thinking.

as a geophysics student who has studied the issue for quite some time, i predict that oil production will peak very soon if it is not doing so now, but it will be a decade or more until we see serious production declines due to massively increased investment. nations will cope and economies will muddle along and even grow slightly due to conservation and cutting a lot of waste and inefficiency. ultimately, however, an alternative MUST be found. the best option is to begin a massive project of constructing many new nuclear power stations, and converting the nation's automobile fleet to hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and ultimately all electric cars. in addition, coal will become an even more important fuel, and more efficient methods of mining it will have to be found.

peak oil is very real. even fortune magazine recently ran a large article discussing it. you would be ill-advised to just dismiss it as "another internet conspiracy theroy".
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:16:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:31:08 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:16:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
Every theory posted on the internet is TRUE!!!!!!!!!! Run for your lives!!



you ought to take it much more seriously than that. peak oil has been discussed in fortune magazine, the wall street journal, and the halls of congress.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:23:08 AM EDT
wont matter after 2012...
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