But any time I search for "full auto 10/22" or "NFA 10/22", all I get are links to make a regular 10/22 full auto and get my dog shot.

Is there some special term that I'm unaware of the I need to be searching for?

About how much does a registered, full auto 10/22 run?

Transferable.

Don't think there was ever a factory FA 10/22. Everyone I've ever seen was a conversion of some sort.

Norrell trigger pack.

Not sure on price but I would not be surprised if they are 15k or a bit more.

You want to look for "transferable 10/22" like the poster above said. I haven't looked in a while but I imagine a transferable 10/22 is north of $10k. I think there was also a Norrell trigger pack you could buy. Again, you need it to be transferable, which means it was manufactured and registered on or before May 19, 1986.

Get an American 180 for muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun

American 180.  get your pocketbook out.

f that - have you ever loaded an american 180?

full auto ar-22 all day long.

Ian had a video of one. Apparently one was used to kill a bad guy during a chase.

I have a registered Norrell pack in my 10/22, it's always a fan favorite when I haul all my transferables to the range for others

Norrell trigger pack for 10/22
M16 conversion
UZI conversion
AC556 conversion
Thompson conversion
American 180 (purpose built)

Akins Accerlerator for 10/22

Registered receiver.

Starting bid is $16.k and buy it now is $20k @GreatDane Its a double stamp gun.

Gunbroker link. Not my sale. I live in a commie state.

Here's one .............. suppressed ...

$$$$

Buy an M16 instead

Your NFA AR lower + this -> ?

Go be rich some where else

+1

they were like $10k 10 years ago.

I had a norrell for a year or so.  Was very cool and the ROF was amazing.  it will burn through your 22 ammo fast!  I ended up selling it.  If i had the means to acquire a m16 and a mp5 to go with it...id have kept.  But for me a m16 with a 22 and a 9mm upper is more likely.
The norrell i had also came with one of his integral suppressors...was very quiet.

mac 11 with a lage  22 upper?

Yes, I use to have one. While it never worked great when it did it was awesome. I should have sent it out to E&L at the time to have him fix it up.

I have a Norrell pattern 10/22 as well.

There are basically three primary types of full auto 10/22s out there.

1.Open bolt conversions
2.Closed bolt “TEK” conversions
3.Closed bolt “Norrell” conversions

The open bolt guns are pretty rare in transferable form and the cyclic rate is even that much higher given that there is no hammer to retard the rearward bolt travel.  However, most of the post sample guns I have seen seem to be open bolt given how easy the conversion is.

The TEK systems uses a bolt “arrester” to deal with bolt bounce inherent to all closed bolt designs.  TEK had two different bolt arrester patterns, one that engaged toward the front of the bolt and another toward the rear.  The actual sear and selector arrangement is very similar to the Norrell design.  I don’t have any direct personal experience with the TEK system but general consensus is that the arrester design is a bit of a weak point and they can break or get out of tune pretty easy.

The gold standard for 10/22s is the Norrell pattern.   John Norrell came up with the design which is closed bolt and relies upon a sliding anti-bounce weight installed into the bolt to deal with bolt bounce.  There is also a spring loaded detent plunger in the housing designed to tune the rate of fire and also help with bolt bounce.  

Norrell pattern guns come primarily in registered sear and registered housing form.   I believe I have even seen some registered receivers along the way as well.   The reason for the disparity of different registered conversion parts is that John has/will convert older designs (like TEK) to his setup where the gun was a registered receiver or housing and he can swap out the original guns to  his internals.     So the gun may have started as an open bolt or TEK system and subsequently John  converted it to use his systems internal parts.    Many of the registered sears that John actually sold himself were subcontracted out to S&H Arms, so it really common to see Norrell pattern S&H sear conversion guns, with Norrell markings electro-penciled on the housing.

Norrell guns are extremely fun, reliable, and relatively cheap to shoot.  (Although best success is using minimags in my experience)    You can also slow the ROF down by using a tungsten based anti-bounce weight bolt as well.  

Transferable 10/22s are not cheap but are also no nuclear in cost for transferable machinegun pricing, hovering around $20K give or take.

I also have an AM15 “American180 Upper” for one of my M16s and have shot a couple factory AM180s over the years.   My personal take effectively owning both the Norrel 10/22 and American180 platforms is the Norrell 10/22 system is superior.    

The American180 system while allowing for epic 200rd mag dumps (if you can get through the drum without a stoppage) is not as reliable in my experience and as mentioned above the only thing more of a pain in the ass than loading AM180 drums is clearing a jam.   I am also not a huge fan of how the AM180 regularly jams/crushes the last round in the drum as there is no traditional follower in the drum to feed that last round correctly and the winders (especially the geared versions) can be temperamental.

The AM180 is more of one of those guns you load a couple drums at home, take it to the range and shoot those mags, and then shoot other guns for the rest of the afternoon.  

The 10/22 you can take to the range and shoot all afternoon.   The 10/22 has also somewhat closed the gap with the AM180 in terms of mag capacity with the 50rd blackdog and the 110rd GSG mags vs the traditional 10 and 25rd mags.  The blackdogs are bulletproof in terms of reliability and the GSG are about on reliability par with the AM180 drums, but are 100% easier to load and especially clear jams from.

As much fun as a Norrell 10/22 is, I wouldn’t personally spend $20K on one as my first machinegun.   It would be much better to put that money toward an M16 or HK Sear in my estimation.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

This.  He said it so I don't have to.

Obviously a need for some kind of trigger that fires on pull and release...

@jbntex
I'd be interested in your thoughts/experience on the reliability of the open bolt vs. closed bolt/Norrell guns.

20K and in stock

I have been watching that site for about 8 months and this is the first one I have seen pop up.

OP, do this.  At most, get a different machine gun that will take a .22LR conversion.  .22LR in full-auto gets boring pretty quickly.

File down the firing pin

10 years ago my buddy bought a Norell pack at a gun show for 5K.

The open bolt guns can be reliable depending upon how they are setup.  The main limitation is that the handful of open bolt guns I have seen were full auto only and there is no way you are pulling singles with finger control.

The only "issue" I know of is that the cyclic rate on the OB guns is so fast (due to no hammer to retard the rearward momentum of the bolt or delay while the hammer falls) that they can outrun the mags depending upon the mags/ammo/suppressor use.  

I have seen some folks add weighted charging handles and/or drill holes in the bolt and add lead or tungsten weights to try and slow it down.   There was also a pretty refined open bolt conversion gun detailed in Small Arms Review last year where it was open bolt but the original hammer was left in the lower to keep the cyclic rate in check.  (the hammer would just ride back and forth on the bolt)

The open bolt guns also appear to run dirtier as more carbon seems to be blown back into the receiver and magazine (probably again due to no hammer holding the breach closed and bolt bounce off the barrel), which can exacerbate the mag feeding issues as the mag gets dirty its ability to feed a 1500+rd cyclic rate is that much further diminished.

I get why many of the homebrew posties are open bolt, as all you have to do is weld or pin a fixed firing pin on the lower bolt face where the bolt scoops up the round from the magazine and fashion up some really basic internals to hold the bolt open and you are in business.

In contrast it takes a sizeable amount a machining time to just make the Norrell bolt, much less all the other internals (sear, springs, selector lever, etc.)

Overall the Norrell closed bolt guns are just a much more refined design,the cyclic rate while fast isnt close to openbolt fast, they are select fire by design, and have a nicer closed bolt trigger pull.

This.

I have 22lr kits for my Uzi and my SA48.

You quickly realize the limitation is in the mags.

My Norrell that I bought directly from him,,,
Was engraved, S&H Arms.

May be an internet rumor, but I read (here probably) that John Norrell registered a shit ton of his sears prior to 5/86, and sells a very small number a year ever since.

There's plenty of info on how to roll your own, provided you're an SOT.

Well he’s obviously not using Golden Bullets lol

A Norell 10/22 is a freakin' blast! I'd love to have one.

Screw everything posted above this

A Feltman "TommyGun" ("Shoot The Star") and a big air compressor will do you just fine

But seriously folks.........

I had mine at the last shoot, but we never got it out, especially because jbntex had his there too

I shot his. Instantly fell in love.

Wouldnt it be cheaper to be an SOT and make your own FA guns (esp. AR-15 stuff) than to buy anything transferable?

If i spent money on a transferable gun i wouldnt want to wear it out by shooting it.  Homemade sot gun = blast away, no real value, no historical value, etc

M16 lower or DIAS is the only way to roll

Thanks.

Mine is a RR, set up as CB.  But I've also had a Norrell bolt break - one of the two 'rails' the anti-bounce weight rides on broke loose and got lost, so the weight was misaligned with the bolt - thus I've considered going to OB with it. OB always appealed to me as it seemed simpler and probably more reliable than CB since bolt bounce wouldn't be an issue.

I would get a 10/22 AR, Fostech Echo II binary trigger, and call it done.

Less than 1K and will eat ammoe just as fast.

Sort of true from what I've read.  To wit, he eventually sold all that he had made and registered about five years ago after selling a few every year for many years.

I'm of the opinion that an M16 with a .22 conversion is the way to go.  There are several vendors of the Atchisson pattern .22 conversion.  I do have an Uzi and .22 conversion that gets its fair share of range time as well.  I've considered getting a Thompson .22 conversion, but the gun is just too heavy for shooting .22.  I don't have a Ruger KAC556 but I believe JAC still sells a Ruger KAC556 .22 conversion which is also an option.

Best of luck.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

This. Buddy of mine has a .22 kit in his that will run all day.

The 10/22 packs are fine, but the host is a pain in the ass to clean and keep clean enough to run.

I totally get where you are coming from as your experience is not the first account I have heard of Norrell bolts cracking over time.

I suspect it doesn't help that many of the original Norrell anti-bounce bolts are OEM Ruger bolts which are "cast" and the cut for the anti-bounce weight removes a significant amount of material and leave a couple sizable stress risers in the 90 degree angle cutouts   The actual design of the Norrell anti-bounce bolt is somewhat of a weak point in the design IMHO.

The issue really came to light when I made my own personal tungsten anti-bounce bolt and the process taking measurements and seeing how much material was removed was pretty eye-opening. It was enough of a concern that I modified the design mid-stream due to concerns of bolt failure/fracture due to my anti-bounce weight being ~2.5 the heft of a steel block.    I also started out with an aftermarket forged bolt hoping it would be stronger vs a Ruger cast unit.

While I have not done a destructive inspection on a OEM Norrell made bolt, its my suspicion that the two "rails" he uses for the anti-bounce weight to slide one are in no way secured to the font of the bolt, so they provide no structural stability for the anti-bounce weight pocket.

This is what a bolt looks like after being milled for the anti-bounce weight pocket with a standard Norrell bolt behind it.

Attached File


Instead of the Norrell design of two round rails through the center of the anti-bounce weight like John does, I put my rails on the outside edge and TIG welded them to the front and back corners of the anti-bounce pocket to better stabilize the anti-bounce weight pocket in sort of a "cage" configuration in an effort to keep it from failing.

Attached File


I have enough Tungsten to make a second bolt and have another updated idea in mind that will leave a full bridge of material along the bottom and lighten the overall bolt weight as the heavy tungsten bolt above won't run in a short barrel config without a suppressor due to the dramatic weight increase.

Tungsten anti-bounce bolt version 2 I plan to lighten the tungsten anti-bounce weight by maybe 20% and also strengthen the bolt by leaving more original bolt material intact.  If you are interested in the final design and final ROF I am happy to share the specs with you once I get time to complete it.  One side benefit of a heavier tungsten anti-bouce weight is you no longer need to use the housing based plunger lock anymore as the tungsten weight is fully sufficient to keep the bolt bounce in check.

If you do decide to go open bolt route for your transferable, I would get the SAR edition with the OB 10/22 for some good ideas as that one kept the hammer and was also select fire.  I would suspect that Shea has back editions available for sale.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Out of curiosity is the S&H Norrell pattern 10/22 sear cast or milled?

I have questioned why Norrell seemed to so heavily rely upon Curtis to make and register 10/22 sears for him (when it was his design) and wondered if it was due to Curtis relationship with a casting house in OK (that was making him Hk sears blanks) and which allowed the fairly complex geometry 10/22 autosear to be made quickly via a casting.

It seems like there are actually more S&H 10/22 registered sears than actual Norrell registered sears based on what comes up for sale.

There was also a big legal fight about a 15+ years ago between Norrell and S&H over the sears that Seslar had in his posession before he went to prison.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ar-supreme-court/1298956.html

Most of these were FNC sears that Norrell sold off in mass about 12ish years ago with Jim Banks acting as brokering proxy, but I believe some of these were also S&H 10/22 sears that Norrell kept and slowly sold off.

Savage 64F

The fun starts at 3:17.