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Posted: 5/24/2005 4:48:42 PM EDT
Yes last week it was United's AMFA mechs taking it in the shorts......

Northwest Seeks to Cut Mechanic Work Force

By JOSHUA FREED, AP Business Writer 2 hours, 5 minutes ago

MINNEAPOLIS - Northwest Airlines is seeking to cut its work force of mechanics by more than half and reduce base pay for the remaining positions by 25 percent, the union said.
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Savings from the pay cuts alone would total $176 million, according to an Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association memo posted on its Web site. AMFA contract coordinator Jeff Mathews wrote in the memo that the figure is based on written proposals given to the union by Northwest negotiators last week.

Negotiators told the union the $176 million figure is "the actual amount of money they want from you," Mathews said. He also said the proposals showed Northwest wants to lay off 2,840 mechanics in addition to the 669 it has already announced. The locations for the new layoffs weren't specified. Northwest officials declined to comment on the plans.

With losses topping $34 billion since January 2001, the nation's six largest carriers have wrung concessions from most of their workers. But at Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines Corp., only the pilots have agreed to a pay cut. The nation's fourth-largest airline is seeking $1.1 billion in annual labor savings after losing $458 million in the last quarter alone.

An ad running on several jobs Web sites says
FAA-certified mechanics "with heavy commercial aircraft overhaul experience are desperately needed for a high profile contract in Minneapolis. This will be working for a major commercial Airline and these positions will allow you to work on multiple types of commercial aircraft."

The ad, placed by AvTech USA INC., promises $32 per hour, a $2,000 bonus, and says housing and tools will be provided. AvTech placed a similar ad in the Star Tribune newspaper on Sunday, although it described the job only as an "Airline Assignment."

A man answering the phone at AvTech declined to give his name or say who hired the company.

Northwest responded to questions about the ad with a written statement: "Northwest's goal is to resolve labor negotiations through a voluntary consensual agreement. In order to ensure smooth operations should those efforts fail, however, Northwest has developed contingency plans to be prepared for any eventuality."

The ad isn't surprising, considering the state of relations between Northwest and AMFA, said Local 5 president Bob Rose, who represents mechanics in Detroit, Northwest's largest hub.

"It bothers the hell out of me, really, that they would have the audacity to put it in the paper while it was still at the negotiating table," Rose said.

Shares of Northwest fell 11 cents to close at $5.35 Tuesday on the Nasdaq Stock Market, near their 52-week low of $4.20.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:30:01 PM EDT
InHouse maintenance costs and the union has done it for the mechanic, the carriers can't compete with outsourcing maintenance and especially the repair stations overseas. I hope to see less jobs going overseas!
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:36:30 PM EDT
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"



Isn't that sad as hell? Seriously think about that for a minute or two.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:11:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"



Isn't that sad as hell? Seriously think about that for a minute or two.



Exactly. I have heard stories of FAA inspectors stateside finding some scary shit after "maintenance" was done in a Mexico facility.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"



Isn't that sad as hell? Seriously think about that for a minute or two.



Exactly. I have heard stories of FAA inspectors stateside finding some scary shit after "maintenance" was done in a Mexico facility.



Like a sombrero left in the highspeed compressor bleed valve?
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:20:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 7:31:38 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
Exactly. I have heard stories of FAA inspectors stateside finding some scary shit after "maintenance" was done in a Mexico facility.



Like a sombrero left in the highspeed compressor bleed valve?



Or really, really, really hot taco sauce as a substitute for Skydrol.......
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:21:04 PM EDT
Union mechs=Jobs go overseas.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:29:02 PM EDT
A&P?

Damn, I thought this was going to be about the supermarket chain.

Did I just give away my age?
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:43:56 PM EDT
It's a sad state of affairs when most car mechanics make more than airframe and poweplant guys
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:49:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 7:51:59 PM EDT by CFII]
United is trying not to go Chapter 7 and disappear. So everyone gets fucked in the process. Northwest is not far behind.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:51:09 PM EDT
tag.


just tag.

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 8:00:47 PM EDT
You A&P's want a really, really good paying job?


www.blackwaterusa.com/aviation/employment.html

I see these guys all the time here.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 10:59:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AirframeMech:
InHouse maintenance costs and the union has done it for the mechanic, the carriers can't compete with outsourcing maintenance and especially the repair stations overseas. I hope to see less jobs going overseas!




I do on-call line maint for several airlines, including two who have outsourced their maint overseas.
And it aint pretty. About half the time it’s a clusterfluck because they want me to do something shady, or the maint chief has little wrenching experience, and all he can do is read thru the manual in broken english, mispronouncing many words, and leaving out the ones he cannot pronounce. End result is a jet full of irate pax delayed many hours longer than necessary because of idiots trying to shave maint $$$.


Sooner or later, a few hundred passengers are gonna get BBR due to this crap, the airlines will get sued within an inch of their lives, and then the feds will tighten up on outsourced maint. It’ll probably take more than one crash.



Link Posted: 5/24/2005 11:14:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:

Originally Posted By AirframeMech:
InHouse maintenance costs and the union has done it for the mechanic, the carriers can't compete with outsourcing maintenance and especially the repair stations overseas. I hope to see less jobs going overseas!




I do on-call line maint for several airlines, including two who have outsourced their maint overseas.
And it aint pretty. About half the time it’s a clusterfluck because they want me to do something shady, or the maint chief has little wrenching experience, and all he can do is read thru the manual in broken english, mispronouncing many words, and leaving out the ones he cannot pronounce. End result is a jet full of irate pax delayed many hours longer than necessary because of idiots trying to shave maint $$$.


Sooner or later, a few hundred passengers are gonna get BBR due to this crap, the airlines will get sued within an inch of their lives, and then the feds will tighten up on outsourced maint. It’ll probably take more than one crash.








That's been said for the past two years around here at Delta.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 12:02:39 AM EDT
What does "BBR" mean?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 2:09:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
What does "BBR" mean?



Burned beyond recognition.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 2:17:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"



Isn't that sad as hell? Seriously think about that for a minute or two.



Exactly. I have heard stories of FAA inspectors stateside finding some scary shit after "maintenance" was done in a Mexico facility.



I have seen some scary shit stateside. Imagine a seat cusion left in a fuel tank after a c-check. Amongst other things.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 4:41:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARChoo:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Cross the border to Me-hee-co as an illegal and get a job at one of the "FAA" approved aircraft "facilities"



Isn't that sad as hell? Seriously think about that for a minute or two.



Exactly. I have heard stories of FAA inspectors stateside finding some scary shit after "maintenance" was done in a Mexico facility.



I have seen some scary shit stateside. Imagine a seat cusion left in a fuel tank after a c-check. Amongst other things.




I won't refute that fucked up shit happens stateside. Honestly, we're all human. However, even though the facilites in Mexico, Thailand, China, Panama, and other places are "FAA" approved repair stations, that really doesn't mean that they have the same oversight as a repair station stateside. Think about it, if we started regularly sending FAA inspectors overseas on suprise unscheduled inspections, people would decry about the misuse of federal funds. Yet this goes on stateside, and really the reaction by the general flying public is, "As long as I can fly to Florida for $99, I don't care if it was last maintained at Miguel's Aircraft Repair/Burro Sales/Coffee Farm down in Bogota, Columbia." Also sadly I think that the flying public has quickly forgotten about the 40 something undocumented illegals picked up by the INS at TIMCO in GSO. Of which several were of questionable nationalities. I don't care where someone comes from to work in this country as long as they do the legal route, have everything in order, and do their fair share of work.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 7:33:30 AM EDT

"As long as I can fly to Florida for $99, I don't care if it was last maintained at Miguel's Aircraft Repair/Burro Sales/Coffee Farm down in Bogota, Columbia."


That's the heart of the problem right there. I fly for NWA and feel for our mechanics. The were pissed before this latest news, I can't wait to see what their attitude is now. But as long as our competition is doing this I don't see many other answers for management. The "low cost carriers" outsource just about everything and the public loves them. They don't give a flying F*ck who's doing the work as long as they get their cheap tickets. How long did it take for them to forget the Value Jet disaster in FL?

Its a shame but the public, by voting with their wallets, have turned the domestic airline industry into a bunch of flying Greyhound busses. No service, no class, just get me from point A to point B for cheaper and faster than I can drive.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 7:38:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 7:41:11 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]
.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 7:40:18 AM EDT
Where will the jobs go if the airline can't get any concessions and goes out of business (it will happen to one of them soon)?

I ain't saying any of it is right, it just is. There's a lot more fixing that needs to be done besides mechanics' concerns.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 7:54:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 7:58:49 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By Fingers:

"As long as I can fly to Florida for $99, I don't care if it was last maintained at Miguel's Aircraft Repair/Burro Sales/Coffee Farm down in Bogota, Columbia."


That's the heart of the problem right there. I fly for NWA and feel for our mechanics. The were pissed before this latest news, I can't wait to see what their attitude is now. But as long as our competition is doing this I don't see many other answers for management. The "low cost carriers" outsource just about everything and the public loves them. They don't give a flying F*ck who's doing the work as long as they get their cheap tickets. How long did it take for them to forget the Value Jet disaster in FL?

Its a shame but the public, by voting with their wallets, have turned the domestic airline industry into a bunch of flying Greyhound busses. No service, no class, just get me from point A to point B for cheaper and faster than I can drive.



Man, you better get some HUGE wings if you want that turd to fly. The flying public has not caused the airlines' troubles. That's part of their problem, in itself, the attitude. They were flying high (pun intended) and no one gave a second thought to salaries, executive pay, benefits, etc. They just spent, spent, spent. Then competition (oh no, not free-market competition) started eating at their little cash cow. But instead of adapting to it they kept spending the money, the unions kept demanding more, and they relied on the American taxpayer to bail them all out. They have never learned to do otherwise and had little incentive to try. Why save money or really cut costs when you can dump your pension plan on the American public? The union drives the airline into bankruptcy? Big deal, the bosses still get paid and they just milk the taxpayers again.

And somehow it's my fault because I buy the cheapest ticket I can find? Give me a break.

ETA: and yeah, it was so much nicer when you got a bigger bag of peanuts...

Women's lib drove the biggest stake in the heart of the airlines. Remember when you got excited to fly because the STEWARDESSES were so damn hot? Now you never know if they're even gonna be able to fit down the aisle to bring you a drink, or if they're gonna try to give you a big, gay schlong with it.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 8:44:48 AM EDT
Armed Aggie - you're not too bright are you? Let me break it down to you. In order to fly or work on commercial aircraft it takes schooling whic is expensive. If there isn't a good paying job or even the opportunity to find one, no one goes to school and there becomes a shortage of talent in that pool. Of course you can go your route and hire illegals and out source more of it to foreign nations, which you seem all too happy to accept. When more aircraft are lost carrying 300 passengers due to faulty maintenance like Value Jet and Air Alaska thank people like yourself. Obviously you have little to none actual experience in the avaition industry otherwise you wouldn't be making it out to sound like any jackass garbage man can do either job.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 4:42:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:


Man, you better get some HUGE wings if you want that turd to fly. The flying public has not caused the airlines' troubles. That's part of their problem, in itself, the attitude. They were flying high (pun intended) and no one gave a second thought to salaries, executive pay, benefits, etc. They just spent, spent, spent. Then competition (oh no, not free-market competition) started eating at their little cash cow. But instead of adapting to it they kept spending the money, the unions kept demanding more, and they relied on the American taxpayer to bail them all out. They have never learned to do otherwise and had little incentive to try. Why save money or really cut costs when you can dump your pension plan on the American public? The union drives the airline into bankruptcy? Big deal, the bosses still get paid and they just milk the taxpayers again.

And somehow it's my fault because I buy the cheapest ticket I can find? Give me a break.

ETA: and yeah, it was so much nicer when you got a bigger bag of peanuts...

Women's lib drove the biggest stake in the heart of the airlines. Remember when you got excited to fly because the STEWARDESSES were so damn hot? Now you never know if they're even gonna be able to fit down the aisle to bring you a drink, or if they're gonna try to give you a big, gay schlong with it.




Hey Armed Aggie, what would you pay the guy who look at the aircraft and finds a loose panel that need secured so it doesn't fall off on the runway during the take off roll, just to have the next plane cut a tire down, and puncture a fuel tank to crash in a big ball of flame (Concorde)

Or even since Valujet has been mentioned, I'd be suprised if you knew where Daniel Gonzales is. He was the director of Maintenance for Sabre-Tech. The company that placed the oxygen cylinders in the cargo bin of that DC-9. Currently Daniel is hiding in South America somewhere, because the govt. would love to drop some murder charges on him.


Oh by the way it seems like you are just like the rest of the flying public, that assumes everyone is on the Southwest model where every employee is union.



Delta (proud to be non union mechanic) Air423
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 5:07:45 PM EDT
Do you know Kevin Hardt?


Originally Posted By DeltaAir423:
Delta (proud to be non union mechanic) Air423

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 5:11:23 PM EDT
I have friends who used to work for Tracor out of Santa Barbara in the mid to late 80's.
They used to hire bums off the street to work on the aircraft for the C and D checks.


Originally Posted By VTwin60:
In order to fly or work on commercial aircraft it takes schooling whic is expensive.

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 5:20:33 PM EDT
Good to see those non-union Enron employees did so much better than the unionized thugs. To lay down in the warm arms of one's manager, safe from all harm. Yep.

[maynard]
Pay no mind what other voices say
They don't care about you, like I do, like I do
Safe from pain and truth and choice and other poison devils,
See, they don't give a fuck about you, like I do.

Just stay with me, safe and ignorant,
Go back to sleep
[/maynardl
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