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Want to see some really cool shit..
Well can't see exactly as the true designs are rather closely guarded. Explosive lensing. Using two different explosives detonating at different rates to focus the shock wave into the subcritical mass in a nuclear implosion type weapon. There are a very small number of vids out there showing how different shapes and detonation rates can cause two small shock waves propagating through the explosive material to meet at what would be the outer surface of the nuclear pit. Some ultra high speed x-ray photography used to image the shock waves. Have to find it.. Was really cool and interesting. Of course the exact design and details would be worth billions along with the method to detonate all the explosives simotinusuly. Implosion type weapons have always fascinated me.. Just a cool way to archive critical mass.. |
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I saw a picture of an M1 that was hit by an RPG -
The RPG hit the barrel toward the end at a low angle, and the shaped charge cut right through it all down the length of the barrel, hit the turret and after fucking some things up in there got deflected down into the engine. I don't think anyone got killed, thankfully, but that one $4k weapon completely fucked up a $4M+ tank. Wish I had the picture, but our S2 was showing us while we were deployed, and couldn't find it on the interwebz. |
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Quoted:
I saw a picture of an M1 that was hit by an RPG - The RPG hit the barrel toward the end at a low angle, and the shaped charge cut right through it all down the length of the barrel, hit the turret and after fucking some things up in there got deflected down into the engine. I don't think anyone got killed, thankfully, but that one $4k weapon completely fucked up a $4M+ tank. Wish I had the picture, but our S2 was showing us while we were deployed, and couldn't find it on the interwebz. The Russians went the "Cheap, plentiful, simple" route with RPGs. One launcher, multiple reloads. The RPG-7 really is a remarkable, innovative AT weapon. |
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It doesn't invert the cone. Did they use the wrong terminology, or is the animation wrong? Everything I know about shaped charges I learned from discovery channel and TLC 
snip I can't remember if it inverts the cone completely, but I've sat through hours of instruction on shaped charges, especially EFP-type IEDs. My unit ran the TFICA (Task Force Iron Claw Academy) while we were in Baghdad from 07-08, teaching other units about IEDs (spotting, reacting to them, everything there is to know about them, etc...). My unit (107th ENG out of Ishpeming, MI) was route clearance, so that was their bread 'n butter. So while I can't say for certain that an RPG's shaped charge inverts in the literal sense of the word, I do know that the copper bowl on an EFP does invert, and the rule of thumb is that the projectile is ~1/2 the diameter of the original bowl. So a 12" EFP leaves a 6" hole through anything in its path. RPGs go further (the explosion) with more force and heat because the shape of the projectile is sharper (Force/surface area). AFAIK, they work much the same, just way more focused than a regular EFP. |
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Quoted: Snip. Cool. Our ied training was pretty cool/quick. They had a bunch set up on this little course, and a table with examples. I still remember the brand saneo, had super long range for a cordless phone. Our brief was, "this is a common ied, don't shoot it...when you shoot it and it doesn't go off call us" |
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Pretty poor demonstration. In the first instance the charge is just sitting there. In the second, they shape it AND put it in a tube, AND include a shaped piece of copper. Would have been a more effective demonstration had they put a non-shaped charge into the same tube (with say a flat copper piece). |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw a picture of an M1 that was hit by an RPG - The RPG hit the barrel toward the end at a low angle, and the shaped charge cut right through it all down the length of the barrel, hit the turret and after fucking some things up in there got deflected down into the engine. I don't think anyone got killed, thankfully, but that one $4k weapon completely fucked up a $4M+ tank. Wish I had the picture, but our S2 was showing us while we were deployed, and couldn't find it on the interwebz. The Russians went the "Cheap, plentiful, simple" route with RPGs. One launcher, multiple reloads. The RPG-7 really is a remarkable, innovative AT weapon. Based on the German Panzerfaust design, wasn't it? |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw a picture of an M1 that was hit by an RPG - The RPG hit the barrel toward the end at a low angle, and the shaped charge cut right through it all down the length of the barrel, hit the turret and after fucking some things up in there got deflected down into the engine. I don't think anyone got killed, thankfully, but that one $4k weapon completely fucked up a $4M+ tank. Wish I had the picture, but our S2 was showing us while we were deployed, and couldn't find it on the interwebz. The Russians went the "Cheap, plentiful, simple" route with RPGs. One launcher, multiple reloads. The RPG-7 really is a remarkable, innovative AT weapon. Based on the German Panzerfaust design, wasn't it? Yup. It's basically a reloadable Panzerfaust with a rocket to propel the round further. The Germans did the same thing with the current Panzerfaust 3. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't invert the cone. Did they use the wrong terminology, or is the animation wrong? Everything I know about shaped charges I learned from discovery channel and TLC snip I can't remember if it inverts the cone completely, but I've sat through hours of instruction on shaped charges, especially EFP-type IEDs. My unit ran the TFICA (Task Force Iron Claw Academy) while we were in Baghdad from 07-08, teaching other units about IEDs (spotting, reacting to them, everything there is to know about them, etc...). My unit (107th ENG out of Ishpeming, MI) was route clearance, so that was their bread 'n butter. So while I can't say for certain that an RPG's shaped charge inverts in the literal sense of the word, I do know that the copper bowl on an EFP does invert, and the rule of thumb is that the projectile is ~1/2 the diameter of the original bowl. So a 12" EFP leaves a 6" hole through anything in its path. RPGs go further (the explosion) with more force and heat because the shape of the projectile is sharper (Force/surface area). AFAIK, they work much the same, just way more focused than a regular EFP. Munroe effect shaped charge does not equal Misznay-Schardin effect EFP. They're 2 different concepts.
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Munroe effect shaped charge does not equal Misznay-Schardin effect EFP. They're 2 different concepts. I see what you're saying, and the animation above helps too: The blast from the Monroe-type explosion collapses the shaped charge in on the central axis but does not invert it. That actually does make more sense when I think about it, somehow I had always envisioned the cone inverting, which would create another cone. The sharp "needle" of the shaped charge from an RPG is created by the pressure collapsing the cone not inverting it. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It doesn't invert the cone. Did they use the wrong terminology, or is the animation wrong? Everything I know about shaped charges I learned from discovery channel and TLC
snip I can't remember if it inverts the cone completely, but I've sat through hours of instruction on shaped charges, especially EFP-type IEDs. My unit ran the TFICA (Task Force Iron Claw Academy) while we were in Baghdad from 07-08, teaching other units about IEDs (spotting, reacting to them, everything there is to know about them, etc...). My unit (107th ENG out of Ishpeming, MI) was route clearance, so that was their bread 'n butter. So while I can't say for certain that an RPG's shaped charge inverts in the literal sense of the word, I do know that the copper bowl on an EFP does invert, and the rule of thumb is that the projectile is ~1/2 the diameter of the original bowl. So a 12" EFP leaves a 6" hole through anything in its path. RPGs go further (the explosion) with more force and heat because the shape of the projectile is sharper (Force/surface area). AFAIK, they work much the same, just way more focused than a regular EFP. The liner gets squeezed, and does end up inverted. Also, the liner does not turn molten, they only heat up to around 500c, it flows plasticly. This is an xray image of a liner being formed in. 
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Quoted:
I saw a picture of an M1 that was hit by an RPG - The RPG hit the barrel toward the end at a low angle, and the shaped charge cut right through it all down the length of the barrel, hit the turret and after fucking some things up in there got deflected down into the engine. I don't think anyone got killed, thankfully, but that one $4k weapon completely fucked up a $4M+ tank. Wish I had the picture, but our S2 was showing us while we were deployed, and couldn't find it on the interwebz. 
Even the best RPG can only penetrate around 30 inches of RHA, not going through an M1 from front to back. |
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Waaaaaaaaay back in 1992 I attended Centre Entrainment de Commando No 10, Berlin Germany. We had a quick and dirty 3 day class on explosives and 1 day covered improvised shaped charges.
Even though the school was French  I had a great time there and really learned a lot. The French learned, held onto, and keep passing on some dirty tricks from their WWII occupation and they build on modern tactics, techniques, and weapons. 
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Parabolics and hemispherical shape charges are where it's at. I've shot a hemisperical shape charge through 78 inches of concrete and 2 earth mound magazines in new mexico. The best shape charges are now days are made out of IHE.
It really depends on what you want to do though you can fire an EFP down an alley and still have enough energy to knock the dog snot out of what your aiming at, it won't have the penetration power of a Jet from a shape charge but your still delivering a shit ton of kinetic energy and can put a baseball size hole through anything short of a tank. I've seen EFPs in Iraq as big as 24 inches that were probably there to try and defeat M-1s but never used. It takes a greater level of sophistication to deliver an EFP close to a target with a launcher compared to shaped charge in a PG-22 or something. |
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Parabolics and hemispherical shape charges are where it's at. I've shot a hemisperical shape charge through 78 inches of concrete and 2 earth mound magazines in new mexico. The best shape charges are now days are made out of IHE. It really depends on what you want to do though you can fire an EFP down an alley and still have enough energy to knock the dog snot out of what your aiming at, it won't have the penetration power of a Jet from a shape charge but your still delivering a shit ton of kinetic energy and can put a baseball size hole through anything short of a tank. I've seen EFPs in Iraq as big as 24 inches that were probably there to try and defeat M-1s but never used. It takes a greater level of sophistication to deliver an EFP close to a target with a launcher compared to shaped charge in a PG-22 or something. Some things cannot be penetrated. 
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