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Posted: 8/2/2005 3:03:55 PM EDT

Other threads got me thinking.

In a total SHTF scenario meaning no electricity, no phone, no gas, no functioning city/municipal water supply, store shelves emptied and absolutely no indication of where or when any would be restored. How long would you last before you'd have to either trek out in search of food/water/medicine OR head out in search of the nearest "refugee camp"?

Sadly, if the SHTF right now I think I'm prepared for only about a week before I'd have to bug out. For me, probably the first thing I'd run out of would be fresh water. Living in the burbs makes it hard to get water supply anywhere but through the city's teet.

You?



Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:06:22 PM EDT
Water would be the main problem, week or 2, then a long walk to nearest water source
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:08:06 PM EDT
screw you guys, I'm ready for anything
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:08:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
Other threads got me thinking.

In a total SHTF scenario meaning no electricity, no phone, no gas, no functioning city/municipal water supply, store shelves emptied and absolutely no indication of where or when any would be restored. How long would you last before you'd have to either trek out in search of food/water/medicine OR head out in search of the nearest "refugee camp"?

Sadly, if the SHTF right now I think I'm prepared for only about a week before I'd have to bug out. For me, probably the first thing I'd run out of would be fresh water. Living in the burbs makes it hard to get water supply anywhere but through the city's teet.

You?






You mean like if a mysterious germ-warfare plague turned many people into vampire-zombie mutants?
(Note that my screen name is the title of the book that the movie your screen name is from was based on)

Water would definitely be my weak point. I’ve only got two 55 gallon plastic barrels with crappy rain water or topped off with the hose sometimes.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:11:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
You mean like if a mysterious germ-warfare plague turned many people into vampire-zombie mutants?
(Note that my screen name is the title of the book that the movie your screen name is from was based on)

LOL.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:12:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
screw you guys, I'm ready for anything
www.vault52.net/screenshots/geck.jpg



You still need water, its powered by cold fusion
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:12:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
You mean like if a mysterious germ-warfare plague turned many people into vampire-zombie mutants?
(Note that my screen name is the title of the book that the movie your screen name is from was based on)

LOL.




Hey, man...I love the book and the movies!

Have you seen 'The Last Man on Earth' with Vincent Price? It was the first screen adaptation of I Am Legend way before they did The Omega Man.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:12:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
screw you guys, I'm ready for anything
www.vault52.net/screenshots/geck.jpg



You still need water, its powered by cold fusion



but out site has water
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:12:34 PM EDT
This thread should seriously be moved to the survival forum...you will get some good honest answers.

Food wouldnt be my concern....water would be. Depending on the scenerio, I would probably scout out a local water supply and start filling drums. Between boiling and chemical treatment, it would be safe enough to drink.

I think I would want to get my hands on fual for my truck, at least enough to get around the immediate area....a full tank, and a 55 gallon drum would do the trick for the immediate time until the future plan became clear.

The basics such as shelter, clothing, food, fire, etc would still exist. Could always hunt game, so as I said, food wouldnt be much of a concern. I think that as long as I could get enough water to get me through a week or two, the remaining plans would come naturally over time.

I am thinking the first month would be the hardest, but after that, time would start to pick up again.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:13:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:

Originally Posted By Taxman:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
screw you guys, I'm ready for anything
www.vault52.net/screenshots/geck.jpg



You still need water, its powered by cold fusion



but out site has water



- The Butt-Out site. That's where you go when SHTF and other people can just butt-out.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:14:55 PM EDT
I think I could last a long time (think of course being the key word here), as I live in a pretty rural area, so plenty of access to fresh fish and game. As far as water, there are several sources, including a spring nearby.

It's a nice piece of mind not living in the city......
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:15:40 PM EDT
Water is indeed the problem. I'm good for 20, maybe 25 days then I gotta
make some radical decisions. The kind no one wants to talk about but we
all know why you need thousands of rounds of ammo and it ain't for zombies.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:16:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:16:45 PM EDT
Get thee to the survival forum!

I could last a while. Food would become an issue after 45-60 days. Water is available but would require some labor and conservation. I live in a mild climate so winter is not a problem.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:20:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
have an onsite artesian well

generator

fuel

food­

ammo

guns

i have no doubt that without ALL outside help we could easily go 2-3 months.



+1, except for the artesian well...mine are just regualr old wells and I have 2 instead of one.

3 months easy.

Diesel is what I am short on atm....need more long-term storage.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:25:56 PM EDT
We are into hurricane season now so I have enough food, water, medicine, fuel, etc. for 2 weeks but I'm sure it can be stretched out to 4 weeks if necessary.

There is only me, my wife and 2 dogs so I figure 2 gal of water per day but I have a lake out in the back yard. The limiting factor is the drinking water and I keep between 30-40 gal of bottled water in the closet at all times. I would like to have a system to filter the lake water into drinkable water.

I also keep my eyes open when walking around the neighborhood to see who has what in their garage. You never know...
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:25:59 PM EDT
Water is cheap. Everyone should have enough to last a month for each member of the family.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:26:35 PM EDT
Many city and county parks have the old hand pump wells around here.

GM
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:28:41 PM EDT
When the in-laws lived here it was a little better. Had a well and a gas pump. First the pump went cause they didn't need it for the farm, and then when the wife's mother died, the easement on the well expired and we lost the well.

We still have a generator, though it's at our cousin's a few miles away. He has a lot of fruit trees etc. I'm armed, he isn't.

We have spa full of water.

Garden's still going.

Ocean's a mile away.

Two cats....

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:29:26 PM EDT
Working on getting a well dug, then I'm adding a few cows and a bigger garden.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:29:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:31:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Water is cheap. Everyone should have enough to last a month for each member of the family.



True, but it takes up a HELL of a lot of room. In the more suburban areas, that's a problem
as much as money.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:32:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
How long would you last?



till the end
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:35:20 PM EDT


First of all, based on recent experience I think the specialty forums have much less viewership and input. That's why I didn't post there. I posted a question a few days ago in the Business forum and only got two members giving advice.

Now on with the discussion.

I see that the most important aspect IS a water supply. One of the other considerations is that a lot of folks have medical conditions (diabetes, blood pressure, psychiatric, ect) that require daily medicines. Luckily I don't have that but I can see that as being even more important than stocking up on water.

I appreciate the discussion of the GD forum and hope this doesn't get buried in a specialty forum. I do peruse the Survival forum occasionally for good info, but I was hoping for more open-ended discussion rather than answers to specific questions.



Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
have an onsite artesian well

generator

fuel

food­

ammo

guns

i have no doubt that without ALL outside help we could easily go 2-3 months.



+1, except for the artesian well...mine are just regualr old wells and I have 2 instead of one.

3 months easy.

Diesel is what I am short on atm....need more long-term storage.


Sheep



i also have a major river less than 1/2 mile from my house



My river is more of a gulch....a DRY gulch.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:36:47 PM EDT
Would normally clean water from local streams and rivers be safe to drink in your SHTF scenario?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:38:13 PM EDT
I'd do the best I could. I have enough for a week. Worse comes to worse, I'd start hunting/eating squirrels and trying to distill my own water before trying to find a refugee camp. I'd be concerned about looters and my own security a little too much to bug out easily. Then again, different situations require different measures.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:38:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By super64:
Would normally clean water from local streams and rivers be safe to drink in your SHTF scenario?



With proper filtration, sure. Table top water filters are cheap, around $250 and will filter several gallons daily.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:39:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Water is cheap. Everyone should have enough to last a month for each member of the family.



True, but it takes up a HELL of a lot of room. In the more suburban areas, that's a problem
as much as money.



Not really.
I buy spring waters by cartons containing 3 bottles of 1 gal from Walmart for $1.79 per carton ($0.60 per bottle). I keep 10-15 cases (30-45 gals) in my closet and they don't take ups much room since they can be stacked 6 high.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Water is cheap. Everyone should have enough to last a month for each member of the family.



True, but it takes up a HELL of a lot of room. In the more suburban areas, that's a problem
as much as money.



Not really.
I buy spring waters by cartons containing 3 bottles of 1 gal from Walmart for $1.79 per carton ($0.60 per bottle). I keep 10-15 cases (30-45 gals) in my closet and they don't take ups much room since they can be stacked 6 high.



One month supply for a family of 3. That's a lot more than 45 gallons.
I have 4 55 gallon drums in the garage, and that's iffy for a month by my estimation.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:41:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By super64:
Would normally clean water from local streams and rivers be safe to drink in your SHTF scenario?



No. You'll get sick very quickly and get the runs that won't stop.
You'll just shit your brain out for days.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:42:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
Other threads got me thinking.

In a total SHTF scenario meaning no electricity, no phone, no gas, no functioning city/municipal water supply, store shelves emptied and absolutely no indication of where or when any would be restored. How long would you last before you'd have to either trek out in search of food/water/medicine OR head out in search of the nearest "refugee camp"?

Sadly, if the SHTF right now I think I'm prepared for only about a week before I'd have to bug out. For me, probably the first thing I'd run out of would be fresh water. Living in the burbs makes it hard to get water supply anywhere but through the city's teet.

You?






This is why everyone should have a rainwater collection system so you are completely independent of city water. Before people chime in to say that would only last a little while - that is incorrect as little as 1500 square feet of roof space is plenty for a family of 4 indefinitely even during a Texas drought. Solar panels also last a long time even if they only supply enough power for essential items. A fairly small garden can go a long way as well.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 3:44:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 3:48:42 PM EDT by yobo]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Water is cheap. Everyone should have enough to last a month for each member of the family.



True, but it takes up a HELL of a lot of room. In the more suburban areas, that's a problem
as much as money.



Not really.
I buy spring waters by cartons containing 3 bottles of 1 gal from Walmart for $1.79 per carton ($0.60 per bottle). I keep 10-15 cases (30-45 gals) in my closet and they don't take ups much room since they can be stacked 6 high.



One month supply for a family of 3. That's a lot more than 45 gallons.
I have 4 55 gallon drums in the garage, and that's iffy for a month by my estimation.



Almost 2.5 Gal per day?
I guess if you have to bath, brush your teeth, wash dishs, etc. you are right.

I believe the rule for basic survival is 1 gal per person per day but you can stretch that down to just over 1/2 gal per day.
Dogs will drink lake or rain water.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:25:19 PM EDT
A long time. I plan on bugging in at home.

Cows, pigs, chickens and garden. Year round creek on property. Stored gas and diesel. Woods with deer, hogs and turkeys. Fish and turtles in the creek.

Somewhere around 3 months of stored staple foodstuffs.

Water filter and bleach for treating water.

Solar and wind power is next on the list when I can afford it.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:35:09 PM EDT
I'd be good for a year.

After I drove into town and took all the food.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:46:11 PM EDT
Hard to tell for me.

Spring is about 200 yards from where I'm sitting. Artesian well is less than 1 mile away.

I can count about 3 deer in the back field just about anytime of day. Plenty of canned food.

Plenty of gunz and ammo for game, zombies and aholes who want what I got.

Vehicles and generators full of fuel, several propane bottles right here and a few rolls of toilet paper.

Danny
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:51:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
have an onsite artesian well

generator

fuel

food­

ammo

guns

i have no doubt that without ALL outside help we could easily go 2-3 months.



Same as above the 12,000watt generator runs on Natural gas but I have a bottle gas conversion back-up, two wells, one has a wind powered pump, small pond, woods, very few nieghbors. I live on 4 acres at the end of a dead end road next to a 6000 acre fish & wildlife area.

2-3 months or more.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:08:20 PM EDT
Quite a while, 40-45 deer in the back every night, river behind me with Artesian well. Generator, 150-200 gal of gas [you don't need it running all the time] 2 wells, garden, canning supplies, canned goods, lots of SALT, lots of ammo, alt source of heat, lots of wood out back, several lakes close by. Lots of repair odds and ends and spare parts and such. Seed and such put aside. We could go awhile.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:11:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By super64:
Would normally clean water from local streams and rivers be safe to drink in your SHTF scenario?



No. You'll get sick very quickly and get the runs that won't stop.
You'll just shit your brain out for days.



Giardia lamblia

www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/giardia.html

&

Entamoeba histolytica

www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~parasite/ehistolytica.html

& a myriad of other little buggers. But filter, boil, bleach, etc. can make it safe to drink.

I have a year-round trout brook on my property. Lots of food. But TexasSIG hit the nail on the head:


The kind no one wants to talk about but we
all know why you need thousands of rounds of ammo and it ain't for zombies.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:17:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 5:20:43 PM EDT by MachinegunManiac]

Originally Posted By OmegaMan:
Other threads got me thinking.

In a total SHTF scenario meaning no electricity, no phone, no gas, no functioning city/municipal water supply, store shelves emptied and absolutely no indication of where or when any would be restored. How long would you last before you'd have to either trek out in search of food/water/medicine OR head out in search of the nearest "refugee camp"?

Sadly, if the SHTF right now I think I'm prepared for only about a week before I'd have to bug out. For me, probably the first thing I'd run out of would be fresh water. Living in the burbs makes it hard to get water supply anywhere but through the city's teet.

You?





Come again?

We're not all in your situation and as dependent on a local government for everything. I have my own water supply. The electricity goes out frequently during winters here(including Christmas). I can easily get food if I really needed it from the wildlife. I often snack on the wild blueberries, strawberries, wintergreen, etc. because it's bettewr than the crap grown on a farm. I know which creatures to hunt and where to hunt them for a good meal. I really wouldn't have that problem but... in a real SHTF scenario I would be activated anyway.

Oh, I've read your second paragraph, I got ya. Metro life sucks. They try to force you to be so dependent.

I've got a large lake less than a 1/4 mile from me and plenty of ponds and streams. I'd just boil, filter, and drink.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:18:15 PM EDT
...most everyone has 50 gallons potable in their water heater
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:24:25 PM EDT
A quick look around the "Rabidfox's den" (and a strange look of WTF from the wife) shows I can hold out for about a month. Generator, non perishable food, ammo, weapons, water, ect. Steel storm panels to keep the "newly risen" out. House would be/is very secure. I considered hurricane Charley a "test run" and we were 5 by 5 through that (in our old condo). The house is 1000 times better than the old place.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:25:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By super64:
Would normally clean water from local streams and rivers be safe to drink in your SHTF scenario?



With proper filtration, sure. Table top water filters are cheap, around $250 and will filter several gallons daily.



That reminds me, I have a PuR Hiker hand pump filter but I discovered I need a new cartrige for it. Better get a couple.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:45:14 PM EDT
My parents live on two acres of land (whch had a fence until a month ago- oh well, less secure now, but the fenceing is rolled up for re-use). They are near farmland where wildlife is abundant, fuit trees in the yard, a small garden, have their own electric powered well, a small generator IIRC, and a second hand-pump well that needs some repairs but could be fixed given time and enough motivation. The house even has a natural gas powered fridge from the 30's in the basement along with the freestanding wood burning stove that we removed from the upstairs when I was a teenager.

My dad can fix anything or jury rig just about anything know to man (he once turned the clothes washer into a sump pump when we had 2 feet of standing water in the basement- the man is a genius) and he has an entire garage full of tools for woodworking, welding, house repair, and car repair. The loft of the garage has tons of wood stored in it, and there are several large stacks of firewood next to the garage.

When I was a kid my mom used to can all sorts of fruit and still has all the equipment for that stored away in the basement.

My brother lives there and is armed, I live 2 miles away and could arm a small army. If I had 20 minutes warning I could be over there with all my vital stuff.

Short term they would do fine, and with some work the place would be as good as you are going to get in the area I live.

The only thing that could be a problem is that they live less than 2 miles from an tertiary Soviet nuclear target. Well, at least it would be bright and fast!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:47:20 PM EDT
Water....most everyone has abottle of bleach sitting in their laundry room. If you don't know how to make water safe to drink....please find out. You can drink water out of mud puddles if you have bleach.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:47:52 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 7:03:50 PM EDT by Andreuha]
On water, which seems to be the biggest issue here due to volume.
Ask someone who lived atleast some of their adult life in the old Soviet Union!

How to live on one tub of water:

An entire (large) family could cook, bathe, and clean with only a little of the same water (cook with some of it (don't drink that nasty shit, maybe make tea with it. It's why we had vodka! disinfectant ), then bathe in the remainder, then wash clothes in it, then mop the floors with it, and finally you're left with a tub of water perfectly good (hey, smells better than shit!) for flushing the toilet with).

I hope none of you ever find this useful, but I do think it's worth remembering.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:11:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 7:14:08 PM EDT by PhilipPeake]
This is going off-topic a little .. but ...

I live about 600' up on the side of a 1200' hill.
I have a much deeper well than is really needed (the builder was trying to be cheap and use one well to feed several houses, but no matter how deep he went, the flow rate didn't pick up enough), so I have a big 240v pump down there. I have a generator which will drive it, but don't store enough gas to be along term solution - just running the generator to fill the water tank I could last a few weeks.

However, it occured to me: people living above me on the hill have wells ~ 100' deep, which provide them with all the water they need. So, inside the hill, there is obviously water ABOVE the level of my house.

So, if I were to drill horizontally into the hill, or even angle upwards slightly, I would hit this same water source they are drawing from - and water would (should) just rush out of this "well" under its own power.

All I would need to do would be find a decent way to cap the well.

Does this make sense?

Any idea of the legality of boring a hole which ends up underneath someone elses property ( a few hundred feet down?

Would the ever even know?

How feasible is it to find someone to drill a horizontal well???
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:15:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Water....most everyone has abottle of bleach sitting in their laundry room. If you don't know how to make water safe to drink....please find out. You can drink water out of mud puddles if you have bleach.



Hell, Texas in August, good luck finding even a mudhole.....
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:17:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Almost 2.5 Gal per day?
I guess if you have to bath, brush your teeth, wash dishs, etc. you are right.

I believe the rule for basic survival is 1 gal per person per day but you can stretch that down to just over 1/2 gal per day.
Dogs will drink lake or rain water.



No, I agree with you, but I'm in Texas in August. I have to store water for EVERYTHING. There isn't even a river or spring to get gray water for dishes etc. That's why I've been researching using pool water for different things.

There is the very real possibility that every single drop I would need for ANY purpose I will have to store
ahead of time. Envy those living where there are rivers and wells.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:22:21 PM EDT
I'm going to eat my neighbors and drink rainwater.

I can last practically forever.
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