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9/16/2019 10:09:13 PM
Posted: 3/8/2009 5:10:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2009 5:12:53 PM EDT by 22bad]
How difficult would it be to build a shower with a recirculated\filtered system(heated)

Like for a camper or a mobile home at a secluded location(without a discharge or a septic tank)


IOW, the water would be recycled, filtered, heated and reused WHILE you are taking the shower


I'm thinking it would take at least three filters to get the water clean enough

it doesn't need to be drinkable, just good enough to wash with

OTOH, I might want to use it for washing dishes also

keep in mind a 12v system will probably be used

Wouldn't one micron be good enough?
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:13:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2009 5:16:17 PM EDT by burns117]
Have you ever seen shower water discharge

it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers.
You are whistling in the wind .

edit

you could maybe use some kind of settling tank and then take off the gray water on top and filter it
but that would not be a fast operation as I think you are wanting
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:15:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By burns117:
Have you ever seen shower water discharge

it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers.
You are whistling in the wind .


Surely there are filters(kind of like a pre-filter)that would be able to reduce the initial "volume" of (larger)contaminates
(obviously they would need to be VERY easy to clean, since it would probably need to be done every day)

Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:16:41 PM EDT
sorry my edit was a little late
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:17:52 PM EDT
that's nasty
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:18:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By burns117:
sorry my edit was a little late



No sweat, and thanks for the input
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 5:19:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
that's nasty



Depends on the filtration, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 7:40:10 PM EDT
Why not store it, filter it, and use it to water the lawn instead. You can even have the rain drainoff go into the same system. I have seen GREEN houses that employ somthing like this.
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 7:48:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2009 7:54:51 PM EDT by GotSig556]
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 7:49:38 PM EDT
NASA does it
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 7:51:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2009 7:52:04 PM EDT by AllserviceBilliards]
ETA no point NM.
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 8:08:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GotSig556:
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm


Size, weight, expense, volume processed before mandatory stoppage of system for cleaning?
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 8:09:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFloater:
Why not store it, filter it, and use it to water the lawn instead. You can even have the rain drainoff go into the same system. I have seen GREEN houses that employ somthing like this.


That's a really good idea, unfortunately it doesn't fit with either of the two applications that I have in mind

Link Posted: 3/8/2009 8:11:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:
NASA does it


Yeah, but I don't need it clean enough to drink

I'll probably use a slightly different system to purify rainwater for drinking
(and that one might also have to be used to wash the dishes\hands, etc)
Link Posted: 3/8/2009 8:12:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:
ETA no point NM.


I can't believe I missed this, I believe I checked this thread at a three minute interval outside of your posts

How about at least giving me a hint?

Link Posted: 3/9/2009 3:24:59 PM EDT
Evening bump
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 10:39:18 PM EDT
Can't filter out the soap and other dissolve minerals. You can filter out hair and skin cells etc.
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 10:45:00 PM EDT
What about Urine? I pee in the shower all the time.
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 10:46:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kidney:
What about Urine? I pee in the shower all the time.


I'd just pee on a tree(before I took the shower)so I wouldn't have to worry about it "coming back to me"
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 10:55:23 PM EDT
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 11:23:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors



It's about time you showed up, I was about to page you with a thread title edit

How about if I use "ecologically friendly" soaps and shampoos?

Is there no way to create an "on the fly" purification system?
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 11:26:50 PM EDT


Unless your on the space station I'd say its cheaper to increase your water storage system.

Link Posted: 3/19/2009 11:33:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markl32:

Unless your on the space station I'd say its cheaper to increase your water storage system.


That is only possible with one of the two intended applications
(and, that is not the one that I am intending to develop first)
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 12:02:17 AM EDT
You could buy a lot of moist towlettes for the money it would take.
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 12:06:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Only_Hits_Count:
You could buy a lot of moist towlettes for the money it would take.


Yeah, and I guess I didn't mention before that I would be willing to do a "sponge bath" before entering into the closed system, recirculated, hot water shower
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 12:39:00 AM EDT
NASA has it because they have millions of dollars to develop one.

Personally, I think large baby wipes would be most cost-effective. During oEF/OIF that is what the US military used, essentially large baby-wipes.
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 4:33:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Why? I can see grey water storage and treatment for non-contact use (irrigation, toilets) but even that would need a lot of processing. Forget filters, you want a settling tank with coagulant, then some method of seperation of the flocs from the water. That would get the soap out but not detergents (sodium laurel sulfate etc in shampoo). That can only be removed via bacterial action, combination of anaerobic and aerobic. A constructed wetland would be great, if you can get county approval. These systems can effectively treat effluents from a septic system in difficult soil conditions. But in such situations, a commercial anaerobic/aerobic system is more realistic. They rely on chlorine final treatment to reduce odors


While not practical for recirculating the water, how about a solar still setup to concentrate the gunk in an output stream, and at least get some water back?
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 4:36:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 22bad:
Originally Posted By burns117:
Have you ever seen shower water discharge

it is full of hair and dead skin along with dirt. Any filter would clog fast. I have had drains with rodent covers clog after just a few showers.
You are whistling in the wind .


Surely there are filters(kind of like a pre-filter)that would be able to reduce the initial "volume" of (larger)contaminates
(obviously they would need to be VERY easy to clean, since it would probably need to be done every day)



You'd have to have a series of screens before the filters, and they have to be cleaned pretty much every time you used it. You'd have to be careful of what type of soap/shampoo you used, and the water would be pretty foul after a few uses. NASA does it. They'd surely sell you a setup similar to the one on the ISS for a few hundred thou.
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 5:10:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 6:24:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Drill a well or buy a water trailer for occasional use. A dry well in most of Texas will handle gray water disposal easily, and a septic system can be small for your proposed use.

A couple of years ago in the DIY forum we discussed using ganged plastic 55 gallon drums for low cost septic treatment at a place in the desert, and the member already had a metric butt load of drums. The good percolation in the desert means that very short leach lines are needed.

Your proposed idea requires a step that positively disinfects the water before use.


Maybe I could use chlorine tablets in part of the system like they use for swimming pools
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 8:41:35 PM EDT
actually the solar still might not be a bad idea.
IF you could heat the water fast enough and maintain a large enough heat source to it, you could boil a lot of water quickly and then condense it back for the "hot" water in your shower.

This solves the disinfect and removal of the soap and such since it should have a higher boiling point.

However I think there are a few draw backs as the water in the still will be very nasty and you would only be able to recover maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the water you used each time.

Additionally, it would still make more sense to have a settling tank to get the big nasties out of the water first.

The other choices are RO DI units, but again you need a settling tank and good filters prior to hitting the RO unit. Again you only get a 1 out of 4 recovery. But better than nothing.
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 9:16:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 22bad:
How difficult would it be to build a shower with a recirculated\filtered system(heated)

Like for a camper or a mobile home at a secluded location(without a discharge or a septic tank)


IOW, the water would be recycled, filtered, heated and reused WHILE you are taking the shower


I'm thinking it would take at least three filters to get the water clean enough

it doesn't need to be drinkable, just good enough to wash with

OTOH, I might want to use it for washing dishes also

keep in mind a 12v system will probably be used

Wouldn't one micron be good enough?


1. That's nasty

2. It's probably not practical. If you have enough money to buy all the the equipment to filter it properly, then you have enough money to just expand your water supply. Build a Cistern.

3. If your water is that really limited, you should be taking sponge baths
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 11:01:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VectorTX:
3. If your water is that really limited, you should be taking sponge baths


It's not about having limited water, it's about limiting water intake\discharge for multiple reasons

and still getting to take a long hot shower, in many ways I prefer long hot showers to using a hot tub
(although, it is starting to sound like it would be easier to just go ahead and get a hot tub)
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 11:07:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2009 11:10:07 PM EDT by Russm]
Originally Posted By GotSig556:
You could probably use a centrifuge filter to get that done. I was meddling with them in making biodis.....ahem, filtered vegetable oil.
http://www.mtasales.com/CentrifugalFiltration/CentrifugalFiltration.htm


Here is one that I was considering for my workplace:
http://www.nbsc.com/cepa.aspx

The little benchtop one will run you about $40,000 (no i'm not kidding). Add $10,000 increments for the next larger sizes.

eta hot link now
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:16:29 PM EDT
We bought a 5gpm unit for 800 bucks if i remember correctly, and it was filtering down to 2 micron. it was about the size of a bowling ball.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:26:32 PM EDT
This guy wants to set up a system in his Bug Out Vehicle so he can take an endless hot shower while the zombies eat everybody else. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:17:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
This guy wants to set up a system in his Bug Out Vehicle so he can take an endless hot shower while the zombies eat everybody else. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.


Not endless, just looonnnggg

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:21:47 PM EDT
There has to be a better answer.

Carry more water.
Shower less often.
Use paper plates.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:32:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TerribleTom:
There has to be a better answer.

Carry more water.
Shower less often.
Use paper plates.


I'm gonna go bounce some ideas off a friend of mine, hopefully next week

he should be able to help me determine flow rates\equipment availability\cost

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:54:29 PM EDT
The other choices are RO DI units, but again you need a settling tank and good filters prior to hitting the RO unit. Again you only get a 1 out of 4 recovery. But better than nothing.

for this type of application you are going to need carbon tank and mixed bed tanks to filter out everything. depending on usage (daily, weekly, gal used etc) that would last you about 3-6 weeks, before needing to repalce. real bulky to hump around.
one of these
http://www.cabelas.com/ssubcat-1/cat20097.shtml

then through a water filtration system
http://www.espwaterproducts.com/portable-water-filtration.htm

baby wipes have been mentioned. try them and pack 1-2 bottles of witch hazel. that will decrease external body temp combined with the baby wipes to clean.
how often do you think you'll need to shower? .
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:15:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jim:
[span style='text-decoration: underline;']
how often do you think you'll need to shower? .


It could vary from five times a week(max) to once a month, or less

probably somewhere between twice a week to twice a month
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