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Posted: 6/2/2008 4:02:11 AM EST
Will we get to that point? Im sure we will, give the direction things are going.

But I do know that I will not give up my guns. Never.

Im just curious as to what people will actually do in this country. cower to the politicians and open their safes, closets and unholster their rights. Or actually do something about it. if anything.

Just curious about your thoughts.

Im sure that this has been covered many times.

Scott
Nashville, TN
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:03:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:04:37 AM EST by Bob1984]
I have no intention of surrendering my weapons. I paid good money for them. I know I am within my rights in owning them, and rights are non-negotiable.

The Constitution is a contract between the people and the government, specifically intended to bind the government. A 4th grader can read and understand the Constitution.

So what the hell is wrong with our elected critters ?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:04:04 AM EST
dupe.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:06:31 AM EST
Well I suppose once I run out of ammo, they won't do me much good
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:07:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
Well I suppose once I run out of ammo, they won't do me much good


"One day, someone may kill you with your own gun. But they should have to beat you to death with it, because it is empty."



Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:09:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:10:57 AM EST by driver5]
I agree. Nicely put

Not with my dying with my own gun, but with being empty.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:12:06 AM EST
... and what did we learn today kids?

­

<­BR>





Stack it deep.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:13:29 AM EST
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:13:56 AM EST
The prisons are full of drug offenders. Our overloards will gladly double their size with Gun offenders. Hopefully it will not be a peaceful surrender.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:17:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:17:18 AM EST by Bob1984]

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:20:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...



I dunno, they've proven they'll beat on an old lady to rip away her antique pistol in N'awlins.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:23:50 AM EST
"from my cold dead hands"
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:24:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...



I dunno, they've proven they'll beat on an old lady to rip away her antique pistol in N'awlins.




now, you know that was for the officers' safety
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:26:42 AM EST
Cold dead hands and all that.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:29:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By blcouch:

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...



I dunno, they've proven they'll beat on an old lady to rip away her antique pistol in N'awlins.




now, you know that was for the officers' safety



And left the poor ol' woman defenseless. (and likely bruised too)

What kind of a cop leads, or leaves, sheep for slaughter?
What kind of MAN would do that?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:30:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By twistergixxer:
"from my cold dead hands"


He will be missed
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:30:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:31:14 AM EST
I would ultimately do what the law said, but it would be a tearful moment. Some of my guns are family heirlooms. Others I have had great times with and lots of good memories. And some, like the AR, are just badass to have.

Best thing we gun owners can do is stay educated, involved and keep making good money to hold power over the politicians who make these decisions.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:40:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:41:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...


Unless they were stupid they wouldn't ban & confiscate them. They don't need to. They would
1) Make gun ownership a fringe thing which isn't quite right.
2) Make it difficult to buy a gun
3) Make ammo expensive and make as much paperwork as possible.
4) Make it difficult & expensive to find a place to shoot
5) Don't allow anyone under the age of 18 shoot. (It's for the kids!)
6) Require registration of the guns
7) Don't let anyone but the registered owner possess them
8) Don't allow transfers. When the registered owner dies, they destroy them

It would be slow. There wouldn't be any one place where people could agree this is where we fight. Within a generation or two they could kill gun ownership in our country w/o a physical fight. Assuming we let them pass the laws.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:45:51 AM EST
What guns?

No one knows if I even own any guns, now do they?

sold it, traded it, sold it, lost it in a boating accident, gave it away, hadn't had that one in years. Sorry.


Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:45:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By jhereg:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...


Unless they were stupid they wouldn't ban & confiscate them. They don't need to. They would
1) Make gun ownership a fringe thing which isn't quite right.
2) Make it difficult to buy a gun
3) Make ammo expensive and make as much paperwork as possible.
4) Make it difficult & expensive to find a place to shoot
5) Don't allow anyone under the age of 18 shoot. (It's for the kids!)
6) Require registration of the guns
7) Don't let anyone but the registered owner possess them
8) Don't allow transfers. When the registered owner dies, they destroy them

It would be slow. There wouldn't be any one place where people could agree this is where we fight. Within a generation or two they could kill gun ownership in our country w/o a physical fight. Assuming we let them pass the laws.



That is what they would do. If they completely banned all firearms over night "turn them in or go to prison", you very well might see people take up arms against the government. To avoid that, they will just constantly make it more and more difficult to buy, own, or shoot a gun, until hardly anyone does any more.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:52:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:53:17 AM EST by CletusRoundbelly]
Vaseline + watermelon!


ETA: will Dave_A be wearing a name tag?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:52:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By ScrinMaster:

Originally Posted By jhereg:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...


Unless they were stupid they wouldn't ban & confiscate them. They don't need to. They would
1) Make gun ownership a fringe thing which isn't quite right.
2) Make it difficult to buy a gun
3) Make ammo expensive and make as much paperwork as possible.
4) Make it difficult & expensive to find a place to shoot
5) Don't allow anyone under the age of 18 shoot. (It's for the kids!)
6) Require registration of the guns
7) Don't let anyone but the registered owner possess them
8) Don't allow transfers. When the registered owner dies, they destroy them

It would be slow. There wouldn't be any one place where people could agree this is where we fight. Within a generation or two they could kill gun ownership in our country w/o a physical fight. Assuming we let them pass the laws.



That is what they would do. If they completely banned all firearms over night "turn them in or go to prison", you very well might see people take up arms against the government. To avoid that, they will just constantly make it more and more difficult to buy, own, or shoot a gun, until hardly anyone does any more.


They are already doing it slowly.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:55:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 4:58:11 AM EST by poliscifan]

Originally Posted By jhereg:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Someone would have to be suicidal, or just plain stupid on a Darwinian level to think they can go around confiscating guns without catching lead.

Might as well try to walk into a tiger cage with a pair of pliers, with the intention of removing the tiger's teeth...


Unless they were stupid they wouldn't ban & confiscate them. They don't need to. They would
1) Make gun ownership a fringe thing which isn't quite right.
2) Make it difficult to buy a gun
3) Make ammo expensive and make as much paperwork as possible.
4) Make it difficult & expensive to find a place to shoot
5) Don't allow anyone under the age of 18 shoot. (It's for the kids!)
6) Require registration of the guns
7) Don't let anyone but the registered owner possess them
8) Don't allow transfers. When the registered owner dies, they destroy them

It would be slow. There wouldn't be any one place where people could agree this is where we fight. Within a generation or two they could kill gun ownership in our country w/o a physical fight. Assuming we let them pass the laws.



Then eventualy they simply declare those few remaining gun owners "terrorists" and round them up. By that time they will be a fractured group, who is capable of putting up no resistance to the full brunt of the goverments power. If they fail to comply they will simply be slaughtered.

ETA: I have read some posts on here which would lead me to believe that there are some people who would have no problem disarming the people.....as long as a law was passed.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:58:22 AM EST
Yeah, right. Most here will turn them in as required. A few brave souls will bury them someplace. If a couple of isolated nutjobs do decide to go out in a blaze of glory, they will be killed by JBT swat entry teams or snipers (including by some of the JBTs on this board).

Extreme gun control in being implemented in Kali, and there are no insurgent revolutions over there.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:01:43 AM EST
No
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:04:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By zeke013:
No


Yes you will, just like everyone else here.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:04:59 AM EST
Let me picture this on a personal level. I'm going about my business, at home or out and about. A representative of the government walks up to me, knocks on the door, traffic stop, whatever:
Sir, We show that you posess firearm(s), etc.,. You must surrender them immediately. What if I don't? We will take them by force, including shooting you dead, to get them, turn around and submit to a frisk.
There may, or may not, come a time when the talking has been done and its decision making time. The OP is right about that.
I'm a free man, an American citizen. I did my time in service to my country. I fulfill my responsibilities as a citizen. I know whats right and whats not. I will no more submit to injustice than I would follow an illegal order while serving in the military forces.
There are MANY like me.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:06:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By ferretray:
Let me picture this on a personal level. I'm going about my business, at home or out and about. A representative of the government walks up to me, knocks on the door, traffic stop, whatever:
Sir, We show that you posess firearm(s), etc.,. You must surrender them immediately. What if I don't? We will take them by force, including shooting you dead, to get them, turn around and submit to a frisk.
There may, or may not, come a time when the talking has been done and its decision making time. The OP is right about that.
I'm a free man, an American citizen. I did my time in service to my country. I fulfill my responsibilities as a citizen. I know whats right and whats not. I will no more submit to injustice than I would follow an illegal order while serving in the military forces.
There are MANY like me.


you will be given a certain period of time to urrender your weapons.

if you fail to surrender them, the stormtroopers will not set their blasters to stun...
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:08:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By ferretray:
Let me picture this on a personal level. I'm going about my business, at home or out and about. A representative of the government walks up to me, knocks on the door, traffic stop, whatever:
Sir, We show that you posess firearm(s), etc.,. You must surrender them immediately. What if I don't? We will take them by force, including shooting you dead, to get them, turn around and submit to a frisk.
There may, or may not, come a time when the talking has been done and its decision making time. The OP is right about that.
I'm a free man, an American citizen. I did my time in service to my country. I fulfill my responsibilities as a citizen. I know whats right and whats not. I will no more submit to injustice than I would follow an illegal order while serving in the military forces.
There are MANY like me.


you will be given a certain period of time to urrender your weapons.

if you fail to surrender them, the stormtroopers will not set their blasters to stun...


Yeah, they don't come up to you and ask you to give them what they want. They kick in your door at 4 am and shoot anything that moves.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:12:35 AM EST
They already made them illegal in England and Australia and I don't remember reading about any mass riots or shootouts with police. Everyone will turn them in, when they are ordered to do so.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:13:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By FlyingIllini:
Yeah, right. Most here will turn them in as required. A few brave souls will bury them someplace. If a couple of isolated nutjobs do decide to go out in a blaze of glory, they will be killed by JBT swat entry teams or snipers (including by some of the JBTs on this board).

Extreme gun control in being implemented in Kali, and there are no insurgent revolutions over there.



I like how you call someone who buries them a brave soul but, someone who actually stands up for himself, and dies for what he believes is a nut job. Gee, I wonder where you stand.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:20:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 5:33:00 AM EST by 57Strat]
It's already happened in Massachusetts and what did Mass. residents do about it? Nothing! Mass. residents cannot own any firearm unless they get a state-issued firearms permit, which in most cases is issued at the discretion of the local police authority, with criteria set by the local police authority. Some of the requirements that police authorities require are a letter from the applicants personal physician stating the applicant is of sound mind and without mental issues (hardly any doctor would sign this for fear of liability), 2 or 3 letters of reference, membership in a firearms club etc.

Wash DC and NYC also have heavily restricted ownership of firearms, and residents did nothing.

What did New Orleans residents do when police and the National Guard confiscated their firearms? Nothing!

The fact is the vast majority of Americans will not risk death or prison as their gun rights are stripped away. Even on AR15.com, the vast majority of posters condemn anyone that violates NFA laws, because it's the law. Well, it would also be "the law" if congress passed a law that you must register all semi-auto weapons. Following the same logic, anyone that did not register their guns, would also be condemned by the vast majority of AR15.com posters. At what point will AR15.com members unify and say "I don't care what the law says, I am not surrendering to this violation of my rights"? Because if AR15.com can't unify on these issues, you can bet your ass the other 99.99999% of Americans won't fight it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:23:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By FAL:
They already made them illegal in England and Australia and I don't remember reading about any mass riots or shootouts with police. Everyone will turn them in, when they are ordered to do so.




We were not raised in either of those two countries nor do we all live in IL.

Cultural differences do apply.

As does our form of government which guarantees individual liberties; we are free citizens rather than subjects.

I'm sick of all that gloom and doom bullshit that compares our Constitution and form of government with that in other countries.

So speak for yourself.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:24:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
The Constitution is a contract between the people and the government, specifically intended to bind the government. A 4th grader can read and understand the Constitution.


There are many members here that believe the constitution gives you rights, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:25:24 AM EST
I am a man of law. Will obey the law.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:26:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2008 5:27:05 AM EST by Bob1984]

Originally Posted By 72826:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
The Constitution is a contract between the people and the government, specifically intended to bind the government. A 4th grader can read and understand the Constitution.


There are many members here that believe the constitution gives you rights, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.




True. The people who think that recognizing pre-existing inherent rights is the same thing as being "granted" rights. Permitted rights can be taken away. Inherent rights can't.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:27:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By warhound:

Originally Posted By FlyingIllini:
Yeah, right. Most here will turn them in as required. A few brave souls will bury them someplace. If a couple of isolated nutjobs do decide to go out in a blaze of glory, they will be killed by JBT swat entry teams or snipers (including by some of the JBTs on this board).

Extreme gun control in being implemented in Kali, and there are no insurgent revolutions over there.



I like how you call someone who buries them a brave soul but, someone who actually stands up for himself, and dies for what he believes is a nut job. Gee, I wonder where you stand.



QFT
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:27:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By FlyingIllini:
Extreme gun control in being implemented in Kali, and there are no insurgent revolutions over there.


Yet we in California are still better off than some other states. We put a stop to a lot of anti-gun bills, a few get through and even one is too many, but at least we're fighting.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:29:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By America-first:

Originally Posted By FAL:
They already made them illegal in England and Australia and I don't remember reading about any mass riots or shootouts with police. Everyone will turn them in, when they are ordered to do so.




We were not raised in either of those two countries nor do we all live in IL.

Cultural differences do apply.

As does our form of government which guarantees individual liberties; we are free citizens rather than subjects.

I'm sick of all that gloom and doom bullshit that compares our Constitution and form of government with that in other countries.

So speak for yourself.


Okay, closer to home, it already happened in California. Where were the mass riots and police shootouts when they came for the registered SKSs that were suddenly illegal? Didn't happen then, won't happen in the future.

PS: And just because I currently live in IL doesn't mean I'm from here, so your "cultural differences" argument doesn't hold water with me.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:30:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By FAL:
They already made them illegal in England and Australia and I don't remember reading about any mass riots or shootouts with police. Everyone will turn them in, when they are ordered to do so.


People in those countries are conditioned a little more to believe that their rights are given by the government and therefore can be taken away by the government - much like liberals here are trying to indoctrinate people to believe - so the situation is a little different. But even so, are you sure everyone there turned them in?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:32:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By FlyingIllini:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:

Originally Posted By ferretray:
Let me picture this on a personal level. I'm going about my business, at home or out and about. A representative of the government walks up to me, knocks on the door, traffic stop, whatever:
Sir, We show that you posess firearm(s), etc.,. You must surrender them immediately. What if I don't? We will take them by force, including shooting you dead, to get them, turn around and submit to a frisk.
There may, or may not, come a time when the talking has been done and its decision making time. The OP is right about that.
I'm a free man, an American citizen. I did my time in service to my country. I fulfill my responsibilities as a citizen. I know whats right and whats not. I will no more submit to injustice than I would follow an illegal order while serving in the military forces.
There are MANY like me.


you will be given a certain period of time to urrender your weapons.

if you fail to surrender them, the stormtroopers will not set their blasters to stun...


Yeah, they don't come up to you and ask you to give them what they want. They kick in your door at 4 am and shoot anything that moves.

You girls can draw your own conclusions. I'm a former Marine living in Texas. The situation the OP described probably won't come to pass here. I know MANY who will not submit to this injustice, including LEO's. Waco, etc.,. were a wake up call.
The armed citizens in Texas outnumber the "Authorities" by a WIDE margin.
The scum who would disarm the American citizen fear us. That is why they try to pick, pick, pick away at our freedoms. It ain't gonna work here!
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:36:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By blackascoal:
I am a man of law. Will obey the law.



Did the founding fathers obey the laws of England?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:38:13 AM EST
I would like to know what you mean by the direction we are going? I think things are not great but I feel better about the long term 2A issue than I have in awhile.

Clinton and Obama were forced to publicly discuss more support for the 2A then I have heard in a long time out of the left.

DC case is being debated. And will likely have a very positive impact on our rights.

Our right to keep and bear arms is a Constitutional issue there would be a massive battle were they ever to reach the point of an outright ban.

Right now we have to be smart in our defense of 2A we have to stick together and that means Fudds need to get their shit together. And we need to continue to portray ourselves as intelligent law abiding citizens.

Were I to be the head of the NRA I would go after California, Mass. and NYC. I would do everything in my power to fight the unconstitutional gun laws of those states and I'd bring it to the national debate in a calm, rational way.

I think it is a huge mistake to for lack of a better term admit defeat in several states regarding 2A. When Gays pressed hard for their Constitutional rights I'd piggy back on to that and point out how unconstitutional California is with gun laws.

If we as a nation can have a national debate on sam sex partners we sure as hell can have an open and vocal debate on 2A.

And no I am not giving up my guns. I refuse to be left with zero ability to protect my family. I would literally go all the way before I would let them (whoever them is) take away my 2A and leave me defenseless while criminals have access to weapons of any kind.

Invent a 100% way to ensure no bad guy could have even a butter knife or any other means of doing me harm. Invent a way to reduce crime to the point it no longer exists. Invent a way to ensure we are 100% protected from violence or oppression from our government. Invent a hobby that my wife and I both enjoy that would fill the gap left by our shooting and then get back to me. I'll have an answer for you once all of that is completed.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:43:35 AM EST
The Heller decision will be coming out in a couple weeks and we will see how the tone is set for the 2A in the future.....
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:47:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By FAL:

Originally Posted By America-first:

Originally Posted By FAL:
They already made them illegal in England and Australia and I don't remember reading about any mass riots or shootouts with police. Everyone will turn them in, when they are ordered to do so.




We were not raised in either of those two countries nor do we all live in IL.

Cultural differences do apply.

As does our form of government which guarantees individual liberties; we are free citizens rather than subjects.

I'm sick of all that gloom and doom bullshit that compares our Constitution and form of government with that in other countries.

So speak for yourself.


Okay, closer to home, it already happened in California. Where were the mass riots and police shootouts when they came for the registered SKSs that were suddenly illegal? Didn't happen then, won't happen in the future.

PS: And just because I currently live in IL doesn't mean I'm from here, so your "cultural differences" argument doesn't hold water with me.




So you moved to a locale where gun rights currently aren't being upheld?

Obviously your rights aren't all that important to you so you're projecting what you would do onto others.

FACT: More and more states are supporting the RTKBA especially in the area of CCW.

You're just stamping your feet and repeating yourself; an argument that doesn't hold water.

Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:47:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By CletusRoundbelly:
Vaseline + watermelon!


ETA: will Dave_A be wearing a name tag?


Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:51:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Ultimately, UN troops from other countries will enforce that law.

5sub
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:53:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By VBC:
I would ultimately do what the law said, but it would be a tearful moment. Some of my guns are family heirlooms. Others I have had great times with and lots of good memories. And some, like the AR, are just badass to have.

Best thing we gun owners can do is stay educated, involved and keep making good money to hold power over the politicians who make these decisions.




I would ultimately do what the law said


And so will about 96% of all gun owners.

5sub
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 5:54:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By RetroRevolver77:
I honestly don't know who would enforce such a law.


Ultimately, UN troops from other countries Israel will enforce that law.

5sub


I apologize; I just couldn't fucking help it.
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