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7/8/2020 3:01:36 PM
Posted: 8/30/2015 9:54:18 PM EDT
I am in the process of building my latest shop, and need some suggestions on insulation. Floor plan is 24x32', with 10' walls around the perimeter. Walls are all built with 2x6's on 16" centers, and will be covered with OSB once wired and insulated. Rafters are also 2x6's on 16" centers, each roughly 10.5' in length (rafters run between two 18"x24' beams spaced apart in the center).

I have no intentions of adding continuous heat or A/C, but will likely use either a wood burning stove or propane fired heater for the winter. As far as summer goes, I will likely use 3-4 industrial ceiling fans to circulate air. I know nothing about insulation, but would like to install it myself...any suggestions?
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 9:58:20 PM EDT
Have them spray expanding foam at 1" thickness and call it a day. Insulate the ceiling like a house.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:06:20 PM EDT
If you have the coin do closed cell foam in walls. The R 30-40 in walls, plus the structural strength. If you do that and ceilings, a small window unit AC would keep it comfy in summer.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:14:22 PM EDT
Dense pack cellouse or as close to it as you can get if you are DIY. Thats what i am doing in my addition/shop

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Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:15:39 PM EDT
If you do that and ceilings, a small window unit AC would keep it comfy in summer.
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No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:27:26 PM EDT
With enough insulation you could definitely use a 12,000 BTU unit. We just installed a mini split in a rental. It has heat to -5ºF.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 10:53:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2015 11:02:46 PM EDT by Easy_E]
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.
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Originally Posted By Jason280:
If you do that and ceilings, a small window unit AC would keep it comfy in summer.


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.


I have a 30x40x10 I just insulated and in the heat of the summer a 12000 btu would have no problem keeping it cool. I blew 18" of Cellulose Insulation in the attic with a tin ceiling and the walls have 5.5" of compressed fibreglass with osd .
Its very cheap to heat and stays cool most of the summer days with the door closed .

Edit here's the walls
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:08:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2015 11:09:12 PM EDT by Jason280]
I have a 30x40x10 I just insulated and in the heat of the summer a 12000 btu would have no problem keeping it cool.
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Not sure I'd consider a 12k BTU A/C a "small window unit",  and I don't think they are rated for much over 500 square feet.  

eta:  Wait, don't you live in Michigan??  Not too hard to cool a building to 75* when the average high in July and August is 80-82*.  ;)

I do appreciate the information, though, but I am really not interested in cooling the building.  I think 4-5 52-55" industrial ceiling fans will keep enough air circulating to keep things comfortable.  I will cover the interior walls in OSB like yours, though, and will be building a lot of shelves higher up for storage.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:18:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


Not sure I'd consider a 12k BTU A/C a "small window unit",  and I don't think they are rated for much over 500 square feet.  

eta:  Wait, don't you live in Michigan??  Not too hard to cool a building to 75* when the average high in July and August is 80-82*.  ;)

I do appreciate the information, though, but I am really not interested in cooling the building.  I think 4-5 52-55" industrial ceiling fans will keep enough air circulating to keep things comfortable.  I will cover the interior walls in OSB like yours, though, and will be building a lot of shelves higher up for storage.
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Originally Posted By Jason280:
I have a 30x40x10 I just insulated and in the heat of the summer a 12000 btu would have no problem keeping it cool.


Not sure I'd consider a 12k BTU A/C a "small window unit",  and I don't think they are rated for much over 500 square feet.  

eta:  Wait, don't you live in Michigan??  Not too hard to cool a building to 75* when the average high in July and August is 80-82*.  ;)

I do appreciate the information, though, but I am really not interested in cooling the building.  I think 4-5 52-55" industrial ceiling fans will keep enough air circulating to keep things comfortable.  I will cover the interior walls in OSB like yours, though, and will be building a lot of shelves higher up for storage.


If you put enough insulation in there It wont take much air to keep it cool. The issue is running lathes mills compressors welders it gets hot in there fast. My neighbor has the same size barn and keeps it cool with a window shaker .
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:30:06 PM EDT
I'll primarily be using a 2-post lift in it right now, but a lathe and milling machine may be in the future...
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:31:21 PM EDT
Wouldn't you rather dehumidify the area?
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:36:05 PM EDT
So ceiling fans will keep it cool, but a 12k A/C unit won't? Wouldn't it be helpful at least? Is your building going to be black?

Spray foam is your friend, though probably not D-I-Y.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:36:25 PM EDT
If you are doing it yourself and money is an issue, just use fiberglass batts.

Keep in mind by using OSB you will be creating a pretty dark environment.  Whereas sheetrock will cost you a couple more bucks per sheet it will definitely make it easier to light up.

I built my shop about 15 years ago.  60 x30.  Front is 38x30 with 15 1/2 foot ceilings to accomodate a lift.   Rear is 22x30 with 8 foot ceilings.  Above rear is a second floor.  I rocked the entire shop and painted it an off white.  It creates a nice bright environment in which to work.  
.....just a suggestion for consideration.
Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:45:10 PM EDT
Keep in mind by using OSB you will be creating a pretty dark environment. Whereas sheetrock will cost you a couple more bucks per sheet it will definitely make it easier to light up.
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I am not a fan of sheetrock in a "working" shop, and I like OSB simply because you can pretty much put a screw damn near anywhere and it will hold (without the need of an anchor).  Plus, you can always paint the OSB white....that, and I bought an assload of OSB for this project.  My other 20x34 shop also has OSB walls, and I have been very happy with it thus far.  It has standard roll style fiberglass insulation with paper backing, so I may end up simply using it again.  I didn't install it, but want to do the insulation on this one to save a little money.  

Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2015 11:59:45 PM EDT by dannytor]
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


I am not a fan of sheetrock in a "working" shop, and I like OSB simply because you can pretty much put a screw damn near anywhere and it will hold (without the need of an anchor).  Plus, you can always paint the OSB white....that, and I bought an assload of OSB for this project.  My other 20x34 shop also has OSB walls, and I have been very happy with it thus far.  It has standard roll style fiberglass insulation with paper backing, so I may end up simply using it again.  I didn't install it, but want to do the insulation on this one to save a little money.  

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Originally Posted By Jason280:
Keep in mind by using OSB you will be creating a pretty dark environment. Whereas sheetrock will cost you a couple more bucks per sheet it will definitely make it easier to light up.


I am not a fan of sheetrock in a "working" shop, and I like OSB simply because you can pretty much put a screw damn near anywhere and it will hold (without the need of an anchor).  Plus, you can always paint the OSB white....that, and I bought an assload of OSB for this project.  My other 20x34 shop also has OSB walls, and I have been very happy with it thus far.  It has standard roll style fiberglass insulation with paper backing, so I may end up simply using it again.  I didn't install it, but want to do the insulation on this one to save a little money.  



i hear ya on the screws and since you already have the OSB.  However, don't discount sheetrock as a non "working Shop"...lots of work has been done in here!!! LOL


and of course the rear "clean" room too for assembly

Edit: I cant post an image to save my ass on here  (#*#^&

http://
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Link Posted: 8/30/2015 11:57:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By dannytor:
Keep in mind by using OSB you will be creating a pretty dark environment.
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Apply sheetrock sealer, and then paint it white.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:04:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 12:08:48 AM EDT by w33b8t1]
I have almost the exact build and size as you with OSB interior walls.

I used regular fiberglass.  In the NM summer (100 degrees) it stays reasonable (80 degrees or so) and last winter I had no heat, but it stayed above freezing the whole time.

So IMHO, you don't need to overdo it.  I am planning on a small ceiling heater for this winter just so I don't have to deal with 40 degree temps.  Plus my wife and kiddo don't hang with me when it's cold.




Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:16:13 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Jason280:
Not sure I'd consider a 12k BTU A/C a "small window unit",  and I don't think they are rated for much over 500 square feet.  



eta:  Wait, don't you live in Michigan??  Not too hard to cool a building to 75* when the average high in July and August is 80-82*.  ;)



I do appreciate the information, though, but I am really not interested in cooling the building.  I think 4-5 52-55" industrial ceiling fans will keep enough air circulating to keep things comfortable.  I will cover the interior walls in OSB like yours, though, and will be building a lot of shelves higher up for storage.
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Originally Posted By Jason280:



I have a 30x40x10 I just insulated and in the heat of the summer a 12000 btu would have no problem keeping it cool.




Not sure I'd consider a 12k BTU A/C a "small window unit",  and I don't think they are rated for much over 500 square feet.  



eta:  Wait, don't you live in Michigan??  Not too hard to cool a building to 75* when the average high in July and August is 80-82*.  ;)



I do appreciate the information, though, but I am really not interested in cooling the building.  I think 4-5 52-55" industrial ceiling fans will keep enough air circulating to keep things comfortable.  I will cover the interior walls in OSB like yours, though, and will be building a lot of shelves higher up for storage.
I can cool my 500+ sq ft shop to 60 deg. when it is 95 outside with a 5000 btu  window unit but I don't like it that cool. I have it insulated quite well.

 
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 12:30:44 AM EDT by not_sure]
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.
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Originally Posted By Jason280:
If you do that and ceilings, a small window unit AC would keep it comfy in summer.


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.

The extraction of humidity* would be the issue, but a large window unit could help if your insulation is good and the building is well sealed.  The closed cell foam will do a good job of both and increase the strength of the structure.  It is expensive so you will probably only want to use like a 1" coating and use conventional insulation for the rest.

*For cooling you have sensible and latent loads.  One is the energy to cool the air to the desired temperature, the other is the removal of H20 or humidity from the air.  Lots of humidity means a lot of power to remove the moisture from the air.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:29:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By w33b8t1:
I have almost the exact build and size as you with OSB interior walls.

I used regular fiberglass.  In the NM summer (100 degrees) it stays reasonable (80 degrees or so) and last winter I had no heat, but it stayed above freezing the whole time.

So IMHO, you don't need to overdo it.  I am planning on a small ceiling heater for this winter just so I don't have to deal with 40 degree temps.  Plus my wife and kiddo don't hang with me when it's cold.

<a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/w33b8t1/media/Garage/9285D9B7-18E9-4AF4-BC7A-454FD03FAFB4_zpsm0k38ycq.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/w33b8t1/Garage/9285D9B7-18E9-4AF4-BC7A-454FD03FAFB4_zpsm0k38ycq.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s105.photobucket.com/user/w33b8t1/media/Garage/B328FB9A-5D5A-478C-BE1B-27DEFB9152AB_zpsqstotjg9.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m221/w33b8t1/Garage/B328FB9A-5D5A-478C-BE1B-27DEFB9152AB_zpsqstotjg9.jpg</a>
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That white looks good makes me want to finish my painting .  Just OSB isn't that bad but the white really make the light pop. Here's where I'm at right now need to get things finished up.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:44:35 AM EDT
If your still framing. Caulk cracks, around windows, wires, pipes, going through plates. Caulk the sheeting inside. Tvvec wrap the whole thing and insulate in up.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 12:55:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jason280:


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.
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Originally Posted By Jason280:
If you do that and ceilings, a small window unit AC would keep it comfy in summer.


No chance a "small window unit" would effectively cool (or keep comfortable) a building this size, regardless of the insulation, especially in the summer where 95+ degree temps are the normal.  You are talking about almost 800 square feet of floor space, not to mention an average ceiling height of over 11'.


I find your lack of faith disturbing young padawan....

All kidding aside, an area that sized could be cooled somewhat by a window unit. It will never get to 68 degrees, but it can can be 20 degrees cooler than the outside temps of 95. Closed cell foam is the way to go. I've sprayed attics that went from 120 pre foam to 85 on the hotest days in Texas. Its more complicated than that of course, but spray foam is the best answer.

I can answer any questions you have via pm if you want.
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