[b]let's replace them with us.[/b]

Think about it, people.

We all know where the Homeland Security Act is going to lead us...more "informers", more "security", bigger "police state" etc., etc., etc.

What kind of people do you want to have in these positions?  Are we going to sit back and type bullshit rants and complaints to each other over the internet, and think we're accomplishing or stopping something?  I hate to tell you - but all we're doing is venting frustrations and making ourselves, for a short time, feel better about a degrading situation.

Get fricking [b]involved[/b] people.  If you've got a bunch of power-abusing cops in your area, and you can't stand the way they're conducting themselves - go to an academy, earn the necessary credentials and [b]replace their asses![/b]  It's the only way to fix things.  If we're really [b]that[/b] sure that we would do a better job than they are doing - WTH aren't we taking their jobs?

Is it because it's easier to sit & bitch than get up & fix?  Come on, ladies & gentleman - let's put some action behind our words - the liberals sure as hell aren't afraid to!


(And yes - I am planning to enroll in an Ohio Peace Officer's Training Academy in September - so don't bother telling me to "go first".  The question is - "Who's with me?")

Thoughts?

Many of "[b]us[/b]" on this site believe in Gun Free Zones, bans on certain weapons, waiting periods, mandatory instruction, etc....

Coupled with the old axiom, [i]Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely[/i], I'm not sure this group would be much better Brown Shirts than anyone else.

Heck no.
I will never take a government gig.  I like making money.  
I say kick the bums onto the street and let them get a real job, like a mall ninja.  

Allow vermont style carry in all 50 states.
c-rock

I too looked into the State Police biz- I too found I wouldn't be able to feed my family. At their payscales I would need to work another job just to make ends meet...
Oh well. I still believe in right and wrong.

[8D]

I'm thinking more along the lines of [b]local[/b] law enforcement.  Deputy Sheriff is the goal.

I happen to know you are a talented engineer.  Are you telling us that you're willing to throw away a career and five years of hard work earning that degree to chase bad guys?  What about your chosen profession?

Just wondering?

I think you know which "us" I was referring to.  Your example is the exact scenario I don't want to see.

[url]http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?id=110259[/url]

Nothing has changed.

I'll put down 10 bucks that says that being "medically disqualified from military service" would keep me out of a police force.

I might take that bet.
It depends on your disqualification.

And even if one agency says no, doesn't mean another won't say yes.

Jay
[img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]

I think we should shut down every "publicly" funded (i.e. funded with stolen tax money) police force. Get rid of all the city cops, county sheriffs, state police, federal marshalls, every variety of armed federal goon, all of 'em.

As a free person, one of your responsibilities is security for yourself and your family. In such a world there will be plenty of private security firms that you can contract with if you need better security than you're willing to provide for yourself with the help of Mr. Colt. Insurance companies will pay for lots of it. Good security will improve their bottom line.

No, I don't know how well it will work relative to the status quo, but it beats the growing Amerikan police state hands down.

Of course, with no way to enforce political edicts, all the laws against victimless crimes (prostitution, gambling, drugs, gun possession) will go to the well-deserved trash heap. And true criminals will meet their well-deserved ends at the hands of their intended victims at the scene of their intended crimes.

A pipe dream? I don't think so.

We had the same exact program in the south after the War of Northern Agression and it  successfully accomplished its goals. It was started by retired General Nathan Bedford Forrest. It even had a cool sounding name, the KKK. Get it? Vigilantes suck. They become the bad cops. Better to have a few scumbags that we can sit on than a rampant abuse of everything decent by mobs. But I could be wrong.

As posted By BillStClair: "I think we should shut down every "publicly" funded (i.e. funded with stolen tax money) police force. Get rid of all the city cops, county sheriffs, state police, federal marshalls, every variety of armed federal goon, all of 'em."

Hmmm....  No form of state or local law enforcement...  Self enforcement...  Street judges... Tribal law... Highway bandits... Warlords... Taliban...  Sounds like the what Somalia and Afghanistan have been using for quite some time.  Most people have to leave home to work and can't watch over their family and property all the time.  Even in rural areas where response times are slow, established professional law enforcement is needed to keep this country from turning into a third world crap hole that we commonly have to send family members off to act as peacekeepers in.

 As citizens, it is our job to make our voices heard during primaries, elections, and especially city and township meetings.  Once it is established that the people disapprove and will not tolerate unprofessional behavior, it will dry up.

Did you notice BillStClair has only 21 posts? is it Andreausan? But under the the concept of 'a free person' the County sheriff and Federal Marshals are the true law enforcement.

Hey if necessary I have a $10 to help get BillSC a ticket to Somalia.

Eyes. You wear thick glasses and everbody thinks your fucking blind, no matter how well you shoot.

You can have my LE job and all the BS that goes with it and just think you will get to endure a public that doesn't like you or think they need you until they are the victim, a vast grey are in all you do , tons of politically motivated department policy, supervision that cares more about there ass then doing the right thing or your well being, out of date equipment, I could go on for days and I almost forgot you get to protect and serve while just surviving at low middle class.

So have at it.

There is such a thing as a "problem department", and it starts at the top.

In California, the easiest way to spot trouble is to look at issuance patterns in CCW permits.

Classic examples:

[url]http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/oaklandzen.html[/url] - hilariously annoying :).

[url]http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/sactoletter.html[/url] - just plain annoying :(.

[url]http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/fresnobee.html[/url] - just plain wrong.

Lots more in the "Expose Project" files:

[url]http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/expose.html[/url]

Some alaska state troopers that have been with the department for a few years are making 70 thousand or more.

Dont believe me? look it up.

Anchorage police officers *start* at 42 thousand a year, with a raise to 48K after the first 6 months.

Want to work in law enforcement and make good money?  MOVE TO ALASKA.
We need more good cops.  

Im only 19, but im a sophmore in college workn on criminal justice, and Im a reserve MP in the Army.  I plan on working as a police officer here, and I would encourage any qualified persons to do the same.

Go visit a 3rd world country for a while and get back to us on that.  Thats pretty much the system they use.  I've got another $10 for that Afhgan Air ticket.

And why stop with spending your "stolen" tax money on cops?  We don't need schools, libraries, public utilities, highways or anything either do we [:K]?

Sorry, I'll never be a cop.  

I can't kick down doors of people who like taboo chemicals.

I can't beat up minorities for being out of place.

I can't steal people's money because they park in a forbidden spot.

I won't fight your drug war, or your terror war.

My concience will not allow it.

We used to have peace officers. Guys with badges whose job it was to [i]help[/i] preserve the peace. They responded to citizen complaints about crimes.

Now we have Law Enforcement Officers. Military guys whose job it is to enforce a multitude of political laws with no right to be. Yes, many of today's men in blue are still peace officers. But a lot of them aren't. And the good ones support the bad ones. 42 bullets for a cell phone. Broom up your ass for God knows what. Bullet in the head while holding your baby. Women and children fried. And noone held responsible. Sorry, this is NOT OK. If the good cops would crucify the bad ones when they do bad, you could keep your good name. As it is, it's too late. You've lost me and a lot more like me.

Used to be I felt safer walking down the street if I saw a cop. Now I worry that he'll come after me, arrest me for breaking some crazy law I never even heard of.

America will never be Somalia. We didn't grow from a country full of warring tribes. The American west worked fine with very little organized law enforcement. It could work fine again.

And Glock31 heard me right. I don't want schools, libraries, public utilities, highways or anything else paid for with extorted money. Fee for service from private enterprises everywhere. Private schools, private libraries, private highways, private utilities, private security. Service contracts for things that you use every day, like roads.

Government doesn't work. Never did. Never will.

I wouldn't take that bet.

We may need them, but that doesn't mean that the government should provide them. Public Schools suck, so to utilities and highways. In fact, almost anything the government does ends up failing.

I think a lot of you are missing the point of this thread. Being an LEO is about serving the public. Many people don't get into it for the money, they get into it to HELP. Unfortunatly, some go into it for the power. These are the people that DON'T deserve the badge they wear. These are the people that should be booted out of police forces, but there is a political structure in place that forbids it.

I guess most of the people on this board really don't know many LEO's because 99% of the ones that I know are the nicest people in the world, UNLESS YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL. So I bet you think I know about 3 cops. WRONG!!! My grandfather retired a Captain from the Minneapolis police force, my father was a detective for a suburban police force for 20 years before getting the dream job of a Special Agent for the MN Bureau of Criminal Apprehension. So what am I saying????? I'm saying I know a lot of cops and the vast majority of them are decent people.

I'm with ya' a3kid, if people want to make a difference, they should get off their a$$e$ and doo something about it rather than saying that all cops suck. (I also rethought my career choice and went back to school last year, pursuing an LEO degree

Rant mode off.

I'll kick in 10 bucks. Billy's read one too many L. Neil Smith novels. This society has some real problems, but it's still the best thing going, hands down. If Billy dislikes it so much, let's all chip in and help him.

a3kid, supurb idea. Thanks for being willing to stand up instead of bitch.

There are very, very few bad cops out there. The problem is that the vast majority,the good cops, tolerate them out of some misguided sense of "brotherhood". It's seemingly getting worse with the militarization of the police and all that will come to pass is that a lot of good people all around are going to get very hurt. To the bad cops out there, "Get out while you can with your hide intact". Lots of opportunities to be a malignant orifice in other lines of work. To the good cops out there, " If you lay down with dogs, you are going to get up with fleas." Run the bad eggs out of your departments before you get tarred with same brush.

Hey, guys. I was just telling you my vision of the perfect society. I doubt we're gonna get there in my lifetime, but I'm gonna continue to hold it up as a goal.

The problem with the system we have now is that it rewards liars and cheats. Those are the people who rise to the top in a democracy. That's why democracy is a really bad idea. Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Democracy is three nineteen year-old boys and your seventeen year-old daughter voting on what they're going to do tonight.

But guess what? America is [i]not[/i] a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. The difference is very important. In a democracy, the mob can vote for anything they want. Whatever the majority says is imposed on the minority, whether they like it or not. In a constitutional republic, the constitution severely restricts the domain of government power. We happen to have a democratic republic, where we use majority vote to make decisions within the tiny domain carved out by the Constitution. How we make those decisions hardly matters. We could use unanimous consent or let the tallest man decide. The important part is the tiny domain. That means that for 99% of the things the majority might want to impose, they're not allowed to because it's unconstitutional.

Unfortunately, people have lost sight of this. Our local, county, state, and federal government bodies routinely pass unconstitutional laws, and the police routinely enforce them. Though I would prefer anarcho-capitalism to our constitutional republic, I'm willing to live with what we have, if the constitution is narrowly interpreted and rabidly enforced. L. Neil Smith, Aaron Zelman, and company call this "Bill of Rights Enforcement". That means any congressman who voted for Klinton's so-called "assault weapons" ban is a criminal. He should be jailed for at least five years and forever forbidden from government service. The same goes for any BATF agent who enforces it. And any cop who searches your car without a warrant, or steals it (er... seizes your assets) without a trial because he finds a marijuana seed on the floor. And don't get me started on campaign finance "reform": blatant violation of the first amendment. And don't even mention the USA PATRIOT act: high treason.

So go ahead and think of my anarcho-capitalist society as Billy's pipe dream. But help me to establish a Bill of Rights culture, a society that lets those elected or appointed to office know, in no uncertain terms, that if they violate their oath of office to protect and defend the constitution, they will pay dearly.

===============

Reread that pesky first clause of the Second Amendment. It doesn't say what [i]any[/i] of us thought it said. What it says is that infringing the right of the people to keep and bears arms is [i]treason[/i]. What else do you call an act that endangers "the security of a free state"? And if it's treason,then it's punishable by death.

I suggest due process, speedy trials, and public hangings.

-- L. Neil Smith

Thanks for your responses.

poikilotrm,
 What a revelation you give us all regarding your own beliefs and character!  If those of us who bitch & whine about the "horrible, abusive, power-tripping cops" were to gain the credentials necessary, and take over their jobs, we'd be just like the KKK?  YOU maybe, not me.  ROTFLMAO!!!!  You're killing me!!  Maybe you should stick your nose back in your [beer]

DOCPIG,
 Thanks for your response too - although it reeks of negativism & self despair, like most of your posts do.  
 Lemme tell ya something...
 I don't like your bitter ass at all - and it's got nothing to do with the fact that you're a LEO - got it?  It's your shitty attitude that I can't stand.  

QBit,
 At least you attempted to be polite with your criticisms.  I do have one question though.  How in the hell did you arrive at the position that your conscience won't allow you to fight [b]my terror war?[/b]?  WTF did you pull that one from?

Eagle_19er & tommytrauma,
 I'll be damned!  Newbies - [b]Two frickin' newbies[/b] had sense enough to read my post and understand what I was trying to say to everybody!  Pay attention people - these two guys have got what it takes to put the USA back where it needs to be to survive.

 I'm tired of hearing the bitching, whining and complaining without seeing anything done to try to change things.  I'm ready to move - ready to do [b]something[/b].  Right or wrong, I'm taking a proactive stand here...

 

I think there's not that many people out there that enter law enforcement to be a thug or a bully.  They're probably out there, but that's not the majority.  I think the majority has a sense of civic duty and wish to make a difference.  I had a releative that was in the NYPD then later worked for the attorney general's office in the late 70's.  In the early 60's there was still alot of respect for an officer, and he joined to "make a difference."  In 1969 a woman with a young boy walked by him, he smiled, and the kid spit at him, and said, "I hate pigs."  Little kids don't form opinions on their own, they repeat what their parents say.  That was one of the few times he felt he was losing his belief of making a difference.  I think alot cops encounter that in some form or the other and some drive on and some become very bitter about who they are supposed to protect and serve.

Sounds to me like you're just a "wanna be" cop that couldn't get hired anywhere else and you get stopped by the police often.  You must fit the "profile" of being a guy that needs to be stopped and questioned etc...

Also, If a police agency were to hire you, they'd probably put you through a real academy and pay you for it.  

I'm willing to be that you can't get hired because you have some psychological problems AND YOU BELIEVE THE WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE!  You don't have a brain or the experience of law enforcement yourself, so you "bash" cops because you saw a handful of videos from around the country.

Go back to watching "COPS" on T.V. and believing the news media that because of a few bad cops (like .001%), you think all cops suck.  Or at least most cops do in your opinion.

You are a looser!  Have fun putting yourself through "community college police academy".  

Problem is, nearly everything is illegal. We need to get back to "peace officers", not "law enforcement".......it's a mindset.

Why the hostility?  I set my goals on an engineering career 15 years ago.  I've accomplished that, and ready to look for a new challenge.  After 9/11 I've been wanting to do something - anything - to serve my country.  I'm too old (37) for any branch of the armed forces, too old for the Ohio State Patrol, and too young to be a greeter at Wally World. [:D]

The only thing left, that I could find, was Deputy Sheriff in the county where I reside.  And BTW - the County Sheriff [b]told[/b] me to attend [b]that[/b] academy.  So get off your high horse, tay?



No, wrong.  I've rarely been stopped by LEO's for anything.  Couple of speeding tickets in the last 18 years.  Nice try though.

Lemme tell ya what - I'll refrain from telling you what "profile" you appear to fit for now.  



That ain't the way it works here.  I've already addressed your "real academy" remark once.  In Ohio, [b]I[/b] have to pay for the academy, and then I get reimbursed in full once hired.  



Psychological problems?  Judging from the attitude you're sharing right now I'd be more inclined to believe that....never mind.

Where the hell did you come to the assumption that I believe everything the media has to say?



Now your just bein' an ass.... [moon]



Go back and re-read my first post.  I never said all cops were bad.  My point is, if people aren't willing to ruck up & help out, they hadn't oughta be bitchin, get it?  (Or maybe even lacking a brain, I'm talking over your head?)



What are you, about 17 years old?  Better make sure your bed is made, if your mom finds out you've been on the computer before your chores are done you'll be in trouble.  (No cookies & milk or bedtime story for [b]you[/b] tonight.)



Thank you very much.  I believe I will.

I like this plan.  My only problem is the 55% disability I'm drawing for my blown knee, and the recurrent trouble I have after tearing my erectors about 10 years ago - I won't make the physical to be a cop...

That doesn't mean, of course, that I can't be a trainer!  Which is exactly what I'm trying to do at the moment.  If I can't be ONE cop on the street trying to straighten things out, why can't I be one TRAINER helping straighten out many cops?  We don't all have to be beat cops to make a difference in police activities...

FFZ

LASIK.

Good luck, wear your vest


If some of you think the nation as a whole would be better off with out police take a look at Africa or one of the third world Stan countries, is that what you want. If you think peace and love would keep of together LOL.

If you think your a badass and can protect your house and family when you leave for work or the store in a lawless society your dreaming. Somebody always wants what you have and sooner or later will try to take it. But your a badass tough guy you can handle anything that comes you way.

Can your MOM,WIFE,LITTLE SISTER or Grandfather handle a dirtbag intent on doing harm. Were will YOU be ? [?]

Being a leo is a thankless job as noted on this board. How long could you do that job with out lashing out at times ?  [?]

I would turn into a " Bad Cop " after a couple of months if it took that long.

I could not even begin to picture myself with the self control needed to put up with the bullshit from  people who just dont care, let alone the dirtbags who are out to do others harm.

I will say it THANKS to all the COPS who risk their life everyday.

Treat everybody how you want to be treated!

I don't think there is anything wrong with Law Enforcement as a second or third career, and I wish A3Kid luck.

Several of our officers are "non-standard" hire, folks who have retired from a completely unrelated civilian job and decided to come into law enforcement. The are far more mature than your aveage 20-something and bring a wealth of experience. They have all made excellent officers, and I think we need more of them. Here are some of our recent candidates along those lines:
-Retired grocery store manager (and AR15 master/home gunsmith);
-Rocket Scientist (no, really);
-Retired Army Aviator;
-Environmental activist (He is now further to the right and than a Texas Republican and owns lots of evil black rifles);
-Lots of medical folks;
-Retried cops from other jurisdictions.

These folks all make excellent additions to our Department and bring skills that we would never have otherwise. As long as they are physically capable of doing the job and meet our strict qualifications, they are welcome here. If you really want to make a difference, quit making excuses and help out. We have lots of community volunteers as well, and they do a lot of good and make our jobs easier.

What these "other diseases" are nobody will tell me, and my eye doctor has no idea what the hell they are talking about.

Since I don't have to follow military rules, I'm waiting for more data back on intracorneal rings rather than LASIK.

[b]a3kid writes

Thanks for your responses.

About -  poikilotrm,
You're killing me!! Maybe you should stick your nose back in your

About - DOCPIG,
Thanks for your response too - although it reeks of negativism & self despair, like most of your posts do.
Lemme tell ya something...
I don't like your bitter ass at all - and it's got nothing to do with the fact that you're a LEO - got it? It's your shitty attitude that I can't stand.[/B]


A literate, cogent debater always brings out the good points.

Bill

[B]hk45USP said - You don't have a brain



a3kid said - Now your just bein' an ass....[/B]

Literate, cogent debate -- just like Assaultweb.

Bill

Hk45USP;
If you're going to call someone a "looser", at least spell it correctly. What you posted speaks volumes about you and your life, none of it good. Seek help.

Since I have flamed a couple of posters for the lack of literacy and cogency in their debate. I should give my take on what would improve the Law Enforcement Hero/Heel debate.

The unfortunate thing about positions of power, and authority, is that the position is attractive to low life people (JBT'S)that like to have control and authority over their fellow man.

The solution is simple -- Have a public service requirement for all of the physically fit members of our society. Make it so that every one has to serve a period of public service. It can be either in the military or with Law Enforcement.

And you must live in the area you serve. No service in South Central, while living in the Simi Valley.

Do you have something positive to add to this discussion, or are you going to be content sitting on the sidelines and sniping?

Then go back to Assaultweb!  I'm more than willing & able to carry on a good debate with anybody.  If someone wants to take the discussion to a shitty level, I can compete there too.  What's your problem with that?

Lack of literacy?  Perhaps you should review the meaning of the phrase "complete sentence".



The bad thing about internet discussion boards is that they seem to attract people who are more willing to use stereotypes and generalities to describe groups of people from the safety of their computer, than they would in a face to face environment.



Regardless of their background, or history of criminal activity?  I've got to hand it to you - you're really thinking now!  [b]NOT![/b]



I understand that Switzerland has had some success using this approach.  Not a bad idea....



I think you mean, "You must serve in the area you live."

I work for a small california LE agency, about 2,500 sworn and 7,500 non-sworn.

Everyone claims they got into it to "help people", cause that's the answer they want to hear in the oral board.

With the exception of the Female officer, and some rather sensitive men it's BS.

Most cops are curious by nature, adrenaline junkies, and have a serious competive drive. They enjoy the chase just like a hunter enjoys bagging a deer or a football player enjoys scoring a touchdown.