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Posted: 6/14/2022 8:47:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: MagPaul]
So after writing to my congress critters regarding the recent spate of gun legislation, I got this response back, which is full of exaggerations, emotional pleas,  and falsehoods, but I can't quite recall the proper sources for evidence that refutes many of these specious claims.

I fully intend to write back and refute his letter.
What I don't need is, "Second Amendment, enough said".   While the sentiment is technically correct, that is not enough; the falsehoods must not go unanswered.
Naturally I would reply respectfully as he did to me but with facts on my side and not trumped up stats.

Any sites, reports, links, et al that anyone can provide to refute any of the falsehoods here would be much appreciated, and since I'm fairly sure many congress critters will be using similar verbiage to their own constituents, sharing this would arm us with proper refutation and let them know we aren't stupid and aren't just buying it.

To wit:

Thank you for taking the time to write to me about our nation's gun laws. I rely on the input of engaged citizens like you when making decisions, and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
The proliferation of firearms is a grave threat to our nation and to our communities. As a U.S. Senator, I continue to advocate for common sense laws designed to reduce gun violence and end needless deaths.
View Quote

Just my own 2 here that won't go in the letter, but I for one am sick and tired of hearing about "gun" violence as though knife violence, beating/bludgeon violence, vehicular violence, and every other form of violence doesn't exist or pales by comparison when it doesn't. The issue isn't "gun" violence, it's violence, period, and it's brought on by horrible polices that hurt the family, damage the upbringing of our youth, and enable mental illness and anger to run unchecked.
Okay, so maybe some of this will go in the letter.

Our country is in the midst of an ongoing epidemic of gun violence. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2020, gun deaths in the United States reached the highest number ever recorded. And, alarmingly, gun homicides increased by 35 percent from the year before.
Since December 2012, when a gunman murdered 20 first graders and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School, there have been more than 3,500 mass shootings  defined as four or more people shot or killed in one. In fact, a mass shooting happens in our country nearly every day, and the 692 mass shooting incidents in 2021 represent a more than 45 percent increase in mass shootings from 2019.
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In one what?  One incident?  One week? He didn't even finish the sentence. Seems convenient.
He just spouts a slew of bloated stats and doesn't actually back up any of it with links or sources.
692 "mass" shootings in one year?  Just no. This needs to be set straight.

Among the 267 mass shootings that have already occurred in 2022,
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Here we go again.   267 in the past 6 months? We know they play with the numbers and definitions but holy cow that's disingenuous.

..two especially horrific acts of violence and hate were perpetrated in May 2022. In Buffalo, NY, a teenager fueled by white supremacist hatred drove 200 miles to a supermarket in a predominantly Black neighborhood, killed an armed former police officer, and opened fire with an AR-15-style automatic rifle.
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AR-15s aren't "automatic".  It's understood that if it isn't prefaced with "semi", it's understood to mean "fully", yes?
Also, these shooters were known to the FBI, who did nothing but could have with the laws already on the books.

He killed 10 Black people and injured two others. Just a week later, another teenager used a weapon of war in a Uvalde, TX elementary school to murder 19 fourth graders, two teachers, and injure 17 other people.
A great deal of research shows that gun violence is closely related to the increase in gun purchases, and 2021 was no exception.
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Not a weapon of war.
I also believe his "research" to be a load of manure, but can't recall the source of refutation I saw recently. If anything, "gun" violence in ratio to the number of guns owned is down, not up.

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) data shows that 19.9 million guns were sold last year, down from the record high of 2020, but still well above pre-pandemic highs. The FBI also reports that in 2019, 10,258 of the 13,927 homicides committed in the United States involved the use of a firearm. In 2019, murder rates in large urban areas were four times more common than in suburban areas. Even in cities with strong firearm safety laws like Chicago, IL, gun violence is still prevalent if the surrounding states have few restrictions. In recent years, 60 percent of guns recovered in crimes perpetrated in Chicago were purchased outside Illinois.

The answer to the gun violence crisis is not increasing levels of gun ownership, it is not arming teachers and it certainly is not to turn schools into prisons. Even in Buffalo and in Uvalde, armed good-Samaritans were unable to stop a shooter who had a weapon made for the battlefield  a weapon designed to quickly kill a large number of people. We cannot afford to waste time entertaining these ideas that are meant to distract and avoid the real issue, access to these weapons. We must instead focus on proven solutions that will actually halt gun violence.

My Senate colleagues and I have introduced multiple bills that will have a significant impact on keeping our communities safe from gun violence. I support Senator Bob Menendez's (D-NJ) Keep Americans Safe Act, a commonsense public safety bill that would ban high-capacity magazines that allow mass shooters to fire hundreds of rounds in minutes reducing the need to stop and reload. I am also a cosponsor of the Assault Weapons Ban, introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA). Among other provisions dedicated to stopping gun violence, this bill bans over 200 military-style assault weapons  the kinds of weapons used in many of the country's deadliest mass shootings.  
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We know the vast majority of shootings are with handguns and that his assault "weapons" fingerpointing is a red herring.
Not sure if there's a site with a breakdown though.
(Also AR-15s are not used on the battlefield, I would chalk it up to firearm ignorance but I suspect he knows and claims it anyway)
The comment about large capacity magazines is pure tripe, unless he's talking about 100 rnd drums, and even then with a SEMI auto that'd be a feat.

I am also a cosponsor of Senator Feinstein's Age 21 Act, a bill that would raise the minimum age to purchase assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines from 18 to 21.

I am proud to be a cosponsor of the Background Check Expansion Act, a bill introduced by Senator Chris Murphy (D-CT). This bill requires a background check for every firearm sale. Under current law, unlicensed or private sellers are not required to conduct a background check before selling a firearm. This bill closes that significant and dangerous loophole. Ninety-seven percent of Americans support universal background checks, and I hope that the bill will move forward in the 117th Congress.
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97%, eh?   Well, 92% of statistics are just made up on the spot.

In 2019, I introduced the Break the Cycle of Violence Act, an evidence-based approach to reducing urban gun violence in American cities. This legislation would provide federal funding to communities for evidenced-based gun violence intervention and prevention programs designed to interrupt cycles of violence. We cannot only deal with the effects of gun violence on the back end. We must also invest in intervention and prevention programs that will steer individuals away from violent conflict before they even occur. In order to truly tackle gun violence, we must take a holistic approach that attacks the problem from all angles. In 2022, I introduced the Preventing Pretrial Gun Purchases Act, which would close a critical loophole in the background check system and ensure that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) denies gun sales to any person subject to a pretrial release order from a court that specifically prohibits the person from purchasing, possessing, or receiving firearms.

In May 2022, I introduced the Federal Firearm Licensing Act. This bill is based on the simple premise that if you need a license to drive a car, you should need a license to purchase and own a gun.
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The premise is broken, driving is not a constitutional right. Firearms are explicitly protected by the Constitution, as the right to freedom from tyranny and self defense cannot be violated.  This trumps personal transportation.

It would create a national firearm licensing program, requiring everyone purchasing a gun to undergo a criminal history background check, present certification of completed firearm safety training, and show proof of identity. The bill is modeled after a similar law in New Jersey, which ranks near the bottom in the number of gun deaths per capita each year.

Each of these solutions clearly conform with the Second Amendment's guarantee of a right to bear arms as part of a well-regulated militia.  The federal government regulates cars, food, prescription drugs, alcohol, roads, airplanes, livestock, water quality, air quality, and thousands of other everyday items that would be a danger to our lives if left unregulated. It is long past time to add firearms to this list.
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Except they don't. He doesn't apply the concept of "regulation" equally to these points, and also again none of them are enumerated in the Constitution. Apples and Oranges.  The term here "well regulated" doesn't mean the guns are to be regulated.

https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/rethinking-the-second-amendment?utm_source=%2Fprofile%2F28216063-dr-naomi-wolf&utm_medium=reader2&s=r
In June 2022, a bipartisan group of 20 Senators came to an agreement in principle on an outline of firearm safety legislation. The legislation will incentivize states to pass red flag laws, invest billions of dollars in mental healthcare, ensure domestic abusers cannot access firearms, improve evidence-based student safety, criminalize firearm trafficking and straw purchasing, and put new safeguards in place for gun purchasers younger than 21 years old. While this bill does not include nearly enough to end the crisis of gun violence in America, it is our duty to come together and get something done to begin to restore a sense of safety and security for children and their families. I hope that my colleagues will finally recognize that children's lives depend on swift and courageous action, and I look forward to working with them to move this legislation in the coming days.

Again, thank you for writing to me. I am honored to represent you in the United States Senate..etc..

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Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/14/2022 9:05:50 PM EST
[#1]
No offense.. but sending a response to his cookie cutter letter is not going to do anything. You're farting into a hurricane.

Instead.. Post the letter on facebook and twitter, and with short concise sentences, debunk the emotional BS talking points with real facts.

And the easiest fact is... No one advocating for gun control, plans on turning in their guns. Just yours. If gun control works.. you first. If you aren't willing to go first, then that is the end of your argument.
Link Posted: 6/14/2022 9:06:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: GrizzlyAdams] [#2]
Just link them to Colion Noir or some other YouTuber who debunks all this drivel for a living. The senator won’t read your response, or believe anything you say. They HATE people like you and me.

I will say Mo Brooks had a good response to the message I sent him. I think he must be a member here.
Link Posted: 6/14/2022 9:52:58 PM EST
[#3]
The rhetoric of "common sense gun laws"... but never a specific as to examples of what "common sense" would be!
Link Posted: 6/14/2022 10:04:06 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
Just link them to Colion Noir or some other YouTuber who debunks all this drivel for a living. The senator won't read your response, or believe anything you say. They HATE people like you and me.

I will say Mo Brooks had a good response to the message I sent him. I think he must be a member here.
View Quote
To be fair though, they probably wouldn't read or watch that either then.

You're probably right,  but I just feel like if constituents don't write back and say "I know this isn't true" then they get away with it harder, maybe even begin to believe their own BS.
Link Posted: 6/14/2022 10:23:38 PM EST
[#5]
if you havent realized these are automated responses from assistant bots then i dont know wtf to tell ya. Stop wastibf your time. The time has passed
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 1:42:27 AM EST
[#6]
Evil people aren't moved by good arguments. God damn I wish people would wake up to that fact. These people aren't misinformed, they're agenda-driven.
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 1:51:54 AM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MagPaul:
To be fair though, they probably wouldn't read or watch that either then.

You're probably right,  but I just feel like if constituents don't write back and say "I know this isn't true" then they get away with it harder, maybe even begin to believe their own BS.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MagPaul:
Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams:
Just link them to Colion Noir or some other YouTuber who debunks all this drivel for a living. The senator won't read your response, or believe anything you say. They HATE people like you and me.

I will say Mo Brooks had a good response to the message I sent him. I think he must be a member here.
To be fair though, they probably wouldn't read or watch that either then.

You're probably right,  but I just feel like if constituents don't write back and say "I know this isn't true" then they get away with it harder, maybe even begin to believe their own BS.



Post the letter, and refute on social media for CONSTITUENTS to see.
Educate the public... and let them know where their senator stands.
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 1:53:59 AM EST
[#8]
Which senator is this?
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 3:45:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: eracer] [#9]
- Law-abiding gun owners outnumber criminals who use guns to commit murder more than 100,000 to 1. (Gun control only limits the freedom of law-abiding citizens.)
- A CDC commission reported that an estimated 300,000 to 1 million crimes are stopped by good people with guns. (Good people with guns stop bad people with guns.)
- Mass shootings are almost always perpetrated by mentally ill psychopaths or gang members. (Focus on the real problem.)
- Cell phone use (distracted driving) results in more deaths than mass shootings. (Both cell phones and guns are tools, sometimes used for bad, mostly used for good.)
- The odds of being killed in a mass shooting are statistically insignificant. ("If it saves just one child" ignores the real threats to children.)

Gun control is an emotional agenda driven by a false narrative.
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 4:09:33 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
The rhetoric of "common sense gun laws"... but never a specific as to examples of what "common sense" would be!
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The "common sense" is that the constitution irrelevant to them. They certainly can't stomach a historical analysis of what was said about it, nor the relative contextual meaning & use of the terms in the 2-A.

This is about what they want. Nothing else. Nobody cares about tyranny or having arms to stop it. Hell, the slaver party is engaging in tyranny right now, & it's adherents are applauding them for it. They want it. Freedom? Pfffft.

The only true legal recourse to repealing the 2-A would ve to go through the amendment process. But that takes a long time, & 3/4 of the states must sign on to it, which isn't in the cards. So instead, they simply ignore it & get away with it because all of govt & a lot of people let them.
Link Posted: 6/18/2022 8:45:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: Oldgold] [#11]
Attachment Attached File


Send this.
Link Posted: 6/20/2022 7:14:56 PM EST
[#12]
Since 2/3 of "gun violence" deaths are suicides, why don't they focus on actual solutions like suicide prevention, access to mental health care, stop promoting gender fluidity where people do really stupid shit to their bodies and later regret it, etc?

I also think it would help if the "gun safety" movement actually promoted gun safety like sponsored firearms handling seminars, CCW classes, etc...
Link Posted: 6/21/2022 4:03:28 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BDA:
No offense.. but sending a response to his cookie cutter letter is not going to do anything. You're farting into a hurricane.

Instead.. Post the letter on facebook and twitter, and with short concise sentences, debunk the emotional BS talking points with real facts.

And the easiest fact is... No one advocating for gun control, plans on turning in their guns. Just yours. If gun control works.. you first. If you aren't willing to go first, then that is the end of your argument.
View Quote


It's true, that a well crafted letter  from a constituent will probably have little impact. What might have impact is 10,000 letters from constituents. The effort put into changing one man's mind is best spent convincing others to speak theirs. The quality of the message is less important as it will likely never be actually heard.
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