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Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:01:03 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....



Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"



The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.



The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.
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German law is so fucktarded that military style firearms can't even transit through Frankfurt airport without a permit.



 
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:05:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By crurifragium:

German law is so fucktarded that military style firearms can't even transit through Frankfurt airport without a permit.
 
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Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.

German law is so fucktarded that military style firearms can't even transit through Frankfurt airport without a permit.
 


I checked four M-16s and two M-9s in one crate at Frankfurt and they didn't bat an eye.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:10:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.
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They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:12:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.
View Quote


They have a factory here, you know.

If they're too stupid to make good use of it, that's their own damn fault.


Let's get back to:

Shitty customer service and warranty support.

Designs stuck in the early 1980s.

An reluctance to expand their manufacturing into the American market, which is a giant cash cow.


They would do well to learn some lessons from FN.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:13:31 PM EDT
They don't make anything that I really want to buy over something else.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:13:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadMonkey:


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.
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Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:15:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 4:16:23 PM EDT by Razoreye]
People love what they can't have.

An MP5 was cool when it came out. Still a nice sub gun. I believe there's better technology out but then I don't think many are into pistol caliber submachine guns anymore since ballistically you might as well step it up to a small rifle caliber machine gun. Even then, semi-automatic seems to reign king. I would much rather have the P90 if I were going SMG (with the good ammo, obviously.)

The rifles are all meh. I still don't see anything better than the ol' AR-15 pattern rifle. That's just me. That's to include conversions like the 416 as I don't see the point of an extra oprod either. DI for me.

ETA: I love my P30L and will likely get a HK45 at some point.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:15:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.
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Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:17:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Razoreye:
People love what they can't have.

An MP5 was cool when it came out. Still a nice sub gun. I believe there's better technology out but then I don't think many are into pistol caliber submachine guns anymore since ballistically you might as well step it up to a rifle caliber machine gun. Even then, semi-automatic seems to reign king. I would much rather have the P90 if I were going SMG (with the good ammo, obviously.)

The rifles are all meh. I still don't see anything better than the ol' AR-15 pattern rifle. That's just me. That's to include conversions like the 416 as I don't see the point of an extra oprod either. DI for me.
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Yoikes.  

If I have to step down to PDW caliber/weaponry, I'd MUCH prefer the MP7 to the P90.  By a considerable margin.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:17:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By krpind:
LOL

You have to be a special kind of stupid ass business person to not be making money in the gun business since obama has been President.
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Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:19:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Razoreye:
People love what they can't have.

An MP5 was cool when it came out. Still a nice sub gun. I believe there's better technology out but then I don't think many are into pistol caliber submachine guns anymore since ballistically you might as well step it up to a small rifle caliber machine gun. Even then, semi-automatic seems to reign king. I would much rather have the P90 if I were going SMG (with the good ammo, obviously.)

The rifles are all meh. I still don't see anything better than the ol' AR-15 pattern rifle. That's just me. That's to include conversions like the 416 as I don't see the point of an extra oprod either. DI for me.

ETA: I love my P30L and will likely get a HK45 at some point.
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My issue with the 416 is not the gas system, but rather the massive parts incompatibility with real ARs because of the near total redesign. Basically, if you see something cool for an AR, there's a 90% chance it doesn't work on the 416.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:23:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

Yoikes.  

If I have to step down to PDW caliber/weaponry, I'd MUCH prefer the MP7 to the P90.  By a considerable margin.
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By Razoreye:
People love what they can't have.

An MP5 was cool when it came out. Still a nice sub gun. I believe there's better technology out but then I don't think many are into pistol caliber submachine guns anymore since ballistically you might as well step it up to a rifle caliber machine gun. Even then, semi-automatic seems to reign king. I would much rather have the P90 if I were going SMG (with the good ammo, obviously.)

The rifles are all meh. I still don't see anything better than the ol' AR-15 pattern rifle. That's just me. That's to include conversions like the 416 as I don't see the point of an extra oprod either. DI for me.

Yoikes.  

If I have to step down to PDW caliber/weaponry, I'd MUCH prefer the MP7 to the P90.  By a considerable margin.

I forgot about that little guy. I've never shot it so I cannot comment on it. Though that one DOES look nifty. I can say shooting the P90 full auto with suppressor was the fucking tits.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:24:48 PM EDT
Germany has signed on to a lot of international treaties that highly restrict the sale of firearms by defense contractors to other nations.  It's a very hostile atmosphere there for their business frankly.  

I believe HK has to have those who purchase firearms from them (talking military sales here) sign "end-user" agreements to conform to Germany law.  I remember reading years ago that Blackwater had apparently used some HK 416's overseas, the German government flipped out, and HK had to complain to Blackwater and end future sales to them. Again, long time ago, but I remember there was a big controversy along those lines.

In terms of the handguns and civilian sales I just think they're not paying attention to market trends. People in the USA want more compact, more slim, and striker fired DAO pistols.  Their triggers also leave a lot to be desired for the American consumer. The HK P30 has awesome ergos and I know a lot of guys would buy an HK416, BUT they charge a lot for their firearms compared to other similarly situated foreign companies like FNH, Beretta, and so forth.

Their marketing and public relations are HORRIBLE as well and in the age of social media you can't do business like that.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:24:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:26:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By MadMonkey:


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.
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Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:26:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Chairborne:


I checked four M-16s and two M-9s in one crate at Frankfurt and they didn't bat an eye.
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Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.

German law is so fucktarded that military style firearms can't even transit through Frankfurt airport without a permit.
 


I checked four M-16s and two M-9s in one crate at Frankfurt and they didn't bat an eye.


State owned firearms are no issue.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:29:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!


It doesn't even look cool in my opinion. It looks like a cheap piece of shit.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:30:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:


My sentiments exactly.  If a gun manufacture can't make money hand over fist these past 5 years then it is run by idiots.

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Originally Posted By Hunter-Killer:
Originally Posted By krpind:
LOL

You have to be a special kind of stupid ass business person to not be making money in the gun business since obama has been President.


My sentiments exactly.  If a gun manufacture can't make money hand over fist these past 5 years then it is run by idiots.



The rifles are a niche market (and a bit over priced) which require some major 3rd party modifications to make legal here unless you want those ugly stocks and 10 round mags. Aside from pistols they were not exporting much here.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:34:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.


i want the 551r as well. no clue on the price though
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:36:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 4:40:47 PM EDT by Flogger23m]
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!



A few different stocks out there:


There is another one out there as well. No idea how much better that will make them, but there are some options.

I don't get the HK hate either. The MR223 has been sold for many years. It was American import law that made if difficult to import. Likewise, we would have complained that the upper/lower were not compatible with original AR-15s because that is illegal under German law. The HK556 is made here (took a while to set up the factory I would think) so we can get it here without dealing with the incompatibility or 922r issues. I am sure they would sell us MP7s and whatnot if they could, but good luck getting them to import a full auto SMG.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:37:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 4:45:48 PM EDT by buck19delta]
i cant say pistol caliber smg's have advanced past me.. since i will probably never see even a real 9mm smg in my safe. much less a mp-7 etc. i would be extremely happy with a 10mm  ( or even 9mm )mp-5 sbr.


i know i can buy a mp-5 sbr, i would just rather pay $1500-$2000 for a new one.... instead of $4500.00.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:38:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By buck19delta:


i want the 551r as well. no clue on the price though
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Originally Posted By buck19delta:
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.


i want the 551r as well. no clue on the price though


Poston driven ARs.  
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:43:15 PM EDT
if they want to make huge obscene profits, bring back the SP89 and make HK 94, 91, 93's. And SBR semi auto versions of the MP5, would have to have a US made receiver of course, BFD.  Sig did it with the 550 series rifle
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:43:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:49:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
HK is not really any better to government agencies or police depts either...My dept is almost done with the transition from USP's to Glocks. The MP5s and G36 will be fazed out during FY2014. Why? No parts availability and shitty customer service from HK. We were an completely HK department, now it will be Glocks and AR's of a to-be-determined manufacture. The 'You suck and we hate you" is limitless.


And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.
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So much for the BS about their customer service having been upgraded. As I said in an earlier post this was the reason one of the LE armorer's gave for his dept dumping all their MP5s and related HK gear, complete lack of product support from HK. That was in 2006, and now you are saying they are still acting like a bag of dicks with the clap.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:51:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.


Because all European countries have the same firearm laws right?

HK has to deal with Germany's and the USA's laws. HK has been exporting the MR223 (HK416, semi auto, different lower/upper location) for years. Getting it into the USA was more problematic as they had to set up a plant here. I doubt they could have exported an upper only as German law requires them to be incompatible with full auto military weapons. With MR223 they did this. So an MR223 upper will not fit on a standard AR lower. I am going to assume that would have been a bad business decision. Selling an upper that did not work on any lower can be problematic. Or selling a complete rifle, complaint with 922r, that was not compatible with regular AR upper/lowers.

In Europe that was okay seeing as there were not many AR makers or ARs in the first place. I believe in Norway (or the Netherlands) the MR223 is the only AR type rifle legal to buy as an example.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:53:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


So much for the BS about their customer service having been upgraded. As I said in an earlier post this was the reason one of the LE armorer's gave for his dept dumping all their MP5s and related HK gear, complete lack of product support from HK. That was in 2006, and now you are saying they are still acting like a bag of dicks with the clap.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
HK is not really any better to government agencies or police depts either...My dept is almost done with the transition from USP's to Glocks. The MP5s and G36 will be fazed out during FY2014. Why? No parts availability and shitty customer service from HK. We were an completely HK department, now it will be Glocks and AR's of a to-be-determined manufacture. The 'You suck and we hate you" is limitless.


And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


So much for the BS about their customer service having been upgraded. As I said in an earlier post this was the reason one of the LE armorer's gave for his dept dumping all their MP5s and related HK gear, complete lack of product support from HK. That was in 2006, and now you are saying they are still acting like a bag of dicks with the clap.


Two of my friends are ATF SRT agents, they use 416 uppers (10 in) on Colt lowers, and are likely going to be shifting over to an all-HK entry long gun soon.

They seem to have no problem with them, performance or service wise.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:57:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:


The UMP is in the running for the worst firearm on the planet.  The only thing they are good at is looking cool in movies.

A Hi-point 995 is a better carbine than a UMP and I am saying that with absolute sincerity.
 
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Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:
Originally Posted By CaribouLou45:
HK MP7 pistol/factory SBR and UMP that takes HK45 mags please!


The UMP is in the running for the worst firearm on the planet.  The only thing they are good at is looking cool in movies.

A Hi-point 995 is a better carbine than a UMP and I am saying that with absolute sincerity.
 

I know the UMP is not well received but when I said UMP that takes HK45 I meant loosely based. Basically, I'd just like to see bigger HK45 mags and a carbine that works and uses them.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 4:58:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.


Other European companies did not have their product specifically banned from import by the Clinton Administration.  
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:08:25 PM EDT


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Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:
The UMP is in the running for the worst firearm on the planet. The only thing they are good at is looking cool in movies.



A Hi-point 995 is a better carbine than a UMP and I am saying that with absolute sincerity.

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Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:



Originally Posted By CaribouLou45:

HK MP7 pistol/factory SBR and UMP that takes HK45 mags please!




The UMP is in the running for the worst firearm on the planet. The only thing they are good at is looking cool in movies.



A Hi-point 995 is a better carbine than a UMP and I am saying that with absolute sincerity.



I've been issued a UMP45 for the last 4 years.  I don't think they are THAT bad.



Some of them absolutely shit the bed when they fire frangible ammo though.  They are a pain to clean, and forget about getting spare parts at a reasonable price.  The bolts develope stress fractures over time.



So yeah, I guess maybe you're on to the something.

Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:14:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2013 5:15:41 PM EDT by buck19delta]
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:


Other European companies did not have their product specifically banned from import by the Clinton Administration.  
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.


Other European companies did not have their product specifically banned from import by the Clinton Administration.  



sure.. clinton banned the import of the sp-89..... just like the ar-15...during the ban.. but they didnt ban the colt- hbar...... so the h&k sp-98, should be legal !

they could probably import parts kits, and manufacture the hk receiver here, and assemble it and be legally fine.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:19:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:22:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:
So 4+ pages of people guessing what the problem is and coming to the wrong conclusions. Typical. I read the article in German, and here's my rough summary:

  • Big losses in 2011 (20 million Euro) and 2012
  • Expecting profits to return soon
  • Economic outlook for H&K means they won't have to declare bankruptcy
  • Annual revenue 202.7 Million Euros
  • 199 Million Euros in debt
  • Reasons cited: High interest rate on debt, corrections/write downs worth millions on some complex financial transactions
  • New contract from the Bundeswehr for 12700 new MG5s worth 140 Million Euros
  • Owned by Andreas Heeschen, his brother-in-law Alfred Schefenacker and Brit Keith Halsey
  • Heeschen was sued in 2010 for using loan money to buy private luxury items by some hedge fonts, but the suit was turned down in NY
  • Moody's has classified their bonds as Caa2 which is basically junk bond status
  • Profits from current business revenues are just enough to pay the 28 Million interest on the bonds
  • 80% of profits come from export business, principally GB and US.
  • They can usually rely on their excellent reputation, but there have been issues with an increasing number of reports of malfunctions and defects
  • They are also under investigation for illegal exports to Mexico 2005
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alot of good info,, BUT...i really think its all boils down to HK's inability to read the US market, they only sell stuff the US market is saturated with.

there pistols are great, but are no better than sig, glock, FN at lower price points,
the MR556 line is great, but are no better than or outclassed by other tier one mfg's like knights, lmt, colt, ect

there are tons of choices in the pistol and AR carbine market.

Mp5's and the rest of the 90 series weapons
Mp7's
G36's

are all weapons that are greatly desired in the US. no shifting production from Germany to the US or at the very least setting expanding current plants to produce desirable weapons that are not produced by dozens of competitors




Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:32:11 PM EDT
Their US operations should be able to keep the company afloat, especially in the current political climate
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:38:39 PM EDT
Good, maybe now they will pay attention to the civilian market.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 5:51:13 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:
At that price point it would out sell the SCAR 16...I would buy one and I already have a SCAR

 
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Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:



Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

At what price point would a civie G36 be a decent seller?





$1800?




At that price point it would out sell the SCAR 16...I would buy one and I already have a SCAR

 




 
And the H&K wundersturmgewehr has a plastic barrel trunnion - so when it gets hot the barrel wanders - and so do your shots.




What an awesome design concept.  Kein problem when the Bundeswehr just hung around Deutschland and didn't actually do any fighting.  When they actually have to shoot people, not so good.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:08:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:08:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!
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Originally Posted By GTHKTX:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Have you 'handled' one? Because they handle like shit. Grip shape/size, stock length of pull, handguard geometry, etc. Combine that with crappy mags that have breakable connector points (useless) a breakable stock, zero shift under rapid fire, etc etc etc

Butttt but but it looks cool!


No, I've never handled one. That's why I said it handles well

I don't have any of your complaints. They're very comfortable to me but I haven't messed with the compacts or MG variants. Perfect? Far from it. But not bad.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:34:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Digitalpower:
funny i couldnt find a USP45 for the life of me a few months ago, maybe they should... make more guns that civi's can buy
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Nope we are not good enough for them.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:44:36 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
State owned firearms are no issue.
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:



Originally Posted By Chairborne:


Originally Posted By crurifragium:


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....



Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"



The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.



The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


German law is so fucktarded that military style firearms can't even transit through Frankfurt airport without a permit.

 




I checked four M-16s and two M-9s in one crate at Frankfurt and they didn't bat an eye.




State owned firearms are no issue.


In my case, I was handling shipping for a whiz bang US manufacturer of SMGs and ammo doing a demo in UAE and couldn't ship them with Lufthansa because they'd transit German soil.



 
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 6:52:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Alien:
I want a REAL semi-auto HK416, not the bastardized MR556.
 
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Originally Posted By Alien:
Originally Posted By S-1:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By ContrarianIndicator:
G36 please. And not that sl8 nonsense.

If you build it they will come.


If it wasn't exotic no one would care about it. Shit.


Yep, the G36 is crap.

I would take a 416 though...
I want a REAL semi-auto HK416, not the bastardized MR556.
 




http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk417-hq/148788-comparison-mr556-hk416-pics.html
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:12:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By AFARR:
Say you win the Powerball....about $60mil after taxes.

Could you 'buy' H & K (or sufficient stock to control it) and change the way they do business?  

How much of that $60mil would it take?

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Your joking right?


It would take many many times that.  I'm still lolin
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:16:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bushmaster1:



old HK advertisement with rounds in backwards- dupe
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Originally Posted By bushmaster1:
Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
i would love an MP5K for $2k  

ETA: never owned HK's until last month and last week - bought two of them




old HK advertisement with rounds in backwards- dupe




In your rush to call dupe I guess you didn't notice it's his own picture he did that on purpose too.


Nice try sweetheart.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:48:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jeff4187:
Considering how strictly the german government regulates their arms industry (exports in particular) they may not be allowed to build export assault weapons for civilian markets.
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Sounds like they need to do what other guns companies do when constricted by shitty Govermental regulations: MOVE!

I give zero fucks what happens to HK. They are big boys who can pull up their big boy pants and pick themselves up by the bootstraps. They are more than capable of making money with new and innovative product but choose to go for the low hanging fruit of military contracts.

If Kel-Tec can make guns as a sideline, and do well at it, by making guns that people want to buy, then H-God-Almighty-K can do it to.

Sink or swim, that's the new normal. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 7:51:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
Originally Posted By MadMonkey:
Originally Posted By SHIFT_OneOffS14:
And to the guys talking about giving up their nuts/cocks/first born for a G36...You is crazy. They are not that cool. I guess if you've never handled/fired one you don't know, but they don't do anything a quality piston AR won't do. Save your wedding tackle and just trust me that the G36 isn't worth that.


They handle very nicely and look very good IMHO. Not all of us want one out of practicality though... they're unique and rare. I'm sure a lot of us have redundant weapons because we just want them.


Yeah, I've got a thing for Sig 550 series rifles. Just none worth the ol' wedding tackle though.

Fuck, I'd love a 556R.  That's what my next bonus is buying.

I'd REALLY love a 551R, but that'll never ever ever happen.




The Walmart by me gets a similiar rifle in occasionally for 1000 bucks. Not sure of the exact model.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:03:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:


Other European companies did not have their product specifically banned from import by the Clinton Administration.  
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Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
I see ignorance rampages unimpeded....

Folks, there's a lot more going on here than "YOU SUCK AND WE HATE YOU!!!"

The German government does not make life easy for those who manufacture weapons. Neither does the EU in general. H&K has also been significantly screwed over by US gun laws in the past like the 1989 import ban.

The idea that they don't sell guns because they are "elitist" is bullshit.


This.  There is so much red tape for HK to cut through let alone the costs


Funny other European based companies seem to have found a way to make it happen.


Other European companies did not have their product specifically banned from import by the Clinton Administration.  



Explain how Sig Sauer A GERMAN COMPANY is doing it and HK can't. SIG SAUER being the company that was formed because SIG was facing even worse restrictions on firearms exports in Switzerland than HK is in Germany. SIG had the desire to be a player in firearms business both on the civilian side and in .gov sales and has done whatever was necessary to sell their products. HK just wants to play at being in the firearms business and mainly supply governments, their security apparatus and their military arms.
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:12:15 PM EDT
HK could manufacture the model 94 in the US if they wanted to, correct?

Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:14:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Explain how Sig Sauer A GERMAN COMPANY is doing it and HK can't. SIG SAUER being the company that was formed because SIG was facing even worse restrictions on firearms exports in Switzerland than HK is in Germany. SIG had the desire to be a player in firearms business both on the civilian side and in .gov sales and has done whatever was necessary to sell their products. HK just wants to play at being in the firearms business and mainly supply governments, their security apparatus and their military arms.
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They already had a decent US presence before. They were assembling various models and producing them here in US, IIRC. On the other hand HK was really slow to open their factory here. Of course it also helps that SIG started to cut corners which cuts cost and increase margin.(and of course subsequent problem with SIG pistols)
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:14:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2013 8:18:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
Good.

They suck and I hate them.  
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Boom!
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