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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/21/2001 3:27:35 PM EDT
Just got and tried my new Bushy M4. Great rifle. I used ear insert protection but I can't hear a thing after twenty rounds. What do you guys wear for hearing protection? [shotgun]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:31:04 PM EDT
HUH[?] What[?] Oh nevermind [}:D] COLTSHORTY GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:39:15 PM EDT
I use the rubber inserts issued to me by the military, I don't know where to get them elsewhere. I have never heard of hearing protection that did so badly. Word of caution before you buy the hefty mickey mouse ears; they may interfere with your cheek/stock contact and throw off your sight picture. P.S. The squishy yellow ones work.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:40:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:45:50 PM EDT
Before I got silencios with the sound valves, I used to make sure that I went with at least one other person so that the non-shooter could put his fingers in the shooter's ears while firing the gun.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:00:44 PM EDT
I have a doctorate in audiology (hearing measurement and conservation) and I know first hand that 95% of shooters do not use hearing protection properly. Hearing protection products must be labeled with a NRR decibel rating (noise reduction rating) but studies that are performed indicate that the average user only receives about 1/2 of the rated protection due to improper use. Any time you are shooting, you should use a combination of plugs and muffs. I realize that most people will not use protection when hunting but there are electonic devices that allow a small amount of amplification but clip the sound when you shoot. This is the best type of device to use when hunting. Peltor Tactical 7 muffs ($140) are electonic muffs that are low profile and do not hit your gun stock. There are some custom made electonic devices called Sound Scopes made by Starkey Laboratories that work well but you will pay $450+ for these. Many electronic muffs can be purchased through Bass Pro Shop catalog. If you don't use protection, you will eventually pay for your laziness with hearing loss or permanent ringing in your ears or both. Be smart and use adequate hearing protection ANYTIME you shoot!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:04:27 PM EDT
By the way, the "valve" type of hearing protection will not adequately protect your hearing. If there is a hole it in, sound will go through. The valves also stick open over time and you will end up with hearing loss. I would recommend getting a baseline hearing test and having it checked periodically to make sure your hearing protection is working. If you job checks your hearing, that will suffice but be sure that you understand the changes that occur over time. ASK QUESTIONS!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:06:03 PM EDT
I use the foam ear inserts, I find they work really well. On the pistol line, or when I can only get a bench on the rifle line next to Ultra Magnum Man, or Muzzle Brake Man, then I double up with foam inserts and muffs. Word of caution about muffs; the ear hooks on your glasses can break the seal around your ear and decrease the muff performance substantially.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:09:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjimbob: (Snip). Peltor Tactical 7 muffs ($140) are electonic muffs that are low profile and do not hit your gun stock. (Snip)If you don't use protection, you will eventually pay for your laziness with hearing loss or permanent ringing in your ears or both. Be smart and use adequate hearing protection ANYTIME you shoot!
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Please listen to the good Doctor! (while you still can [:D] ) I second the recommendation for the Peltor T-7. I wish I had learned about them many years ago. You have no excuse not to take care of yourself, and please, scrape together the money for at least the Peltors. They don't hit the stock on an AR, Rem700 or shotgun for me, are great for hearing range commands, are cheaper than a hearing aid, and I even use them when hunting. So endeth my add for Peltor, and my monitor-side medical advice. Later, JC
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:13:03 PM EDT
amen dr jim, my father has severe hearing problems due to shooting without protection just one time(even though the wont admit it) if he decides to go to the range (rarely these days) he uses both muffs and plugs and still gets em ringing it only takes once. i personally use either the muff or the plugs either work satisfactory for me but i never leave home without em
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:15:33 PM EDT
Your a wise man Rat 30. Everyone who comes to me after the fact always says "why didn't I use my hearing protection earlier". Hearing loss from noise exposure is gradual and by the time you notice the problem (becauses everyone else notices first) its too late.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:25:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjimbob: I have a doctorate in audiology (hearing measurement and conservation) and I know first hand that 95% of shooters do not use hearing protection properly. Hearing protection products must be labeled with a NRR decibel rating (noise reduction rating) but studies that are performed indicate that the average user only receives about 1/2 of the rated protection due to improper use. Any time you are shooting, you should use a combination of plugs and muffs. I realize that most people will not use protection when hunting but there are electonic devices that allow a small amount of amplification but clip the sound when you shoot. This is the best type of device to use when hunting. Peltor Tactical 7 muffs ($140) are electonic muffs that are low profile and do not hit your gun stock. There are some custom made electonic devices called Sound Scopes made by Starkey Laboratories that work well but you will pay $450+ for these. Many electronic muffs can be purchased through Bass Pro Shop catalog. If you don't use protection, you will eventually pay for your laziness with hearing loss or permanent ringing in your ears or both. Be smart and use adequate hearing protection ANYTIME you shoot!
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even if some homo just broke into your house, and is about to rape you, still put the plugs in, before he puts his plug in??
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:32:20 PM EDT
Get a life Cap'n O
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 4:40:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjimbob: Get a life Cap'n O
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LOL, i had typed "God i need to get a life" in that post, but erased it.. guess i shoulda left it.........
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:06:32 PM EDT
Hey drjimbob, I've already got the crickets in my ears. Have they made any advances in treating tinnitus?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:11:29 PM EDT
How are the dogs able to handle it when hunting? Its gotta hurt them. Any input?
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:13:41 PM EDT
Also If you use the foam plugs and dont think they work very well you may not be using them correctly. Read the instructions on the little box.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:57:31 PM EDT
I have trouble keeping my dog from under my feet while I shoot. I guess those long ears are just natural protectors.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:05:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gwalchmai: Hey drjimbob, I've already got the crickets in my ears. Have they made any advances in treating tinnitus?
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I understand your problem. My ears have been ringing since age 7 when a fire cracker blew up in my hand. When tinnitus is from noise exposure, there not much chance for any type of "cure". If you have hearing loss accompanying the tinnitus, wearing hearing aids will usually cover up the tinnitus. However, as soon as you remove the hearing aids, it comes right back. To cope, most people use some type of masking device like a fan at night to help cover up the tinnitus. Tinnitus in one ear only can be a sign of a medical problem and you would probably need to see an ear, nose and throat physician.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:07:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: How are the dogs able to handle it when hunting? Its gotta hurt them. Any input?
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The dogs are just conditioned to not reacting to the blast but you are right, it does not help their hearing either.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:58:38 PM EDT
I uses new military issue or my Peltors w/ the Glock logo. Never shoot without em'
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 6:58:45 PM EDT
I have the Peltor tactical 6-s ear muffs. I have no problem with obtaining a proper cheek weld on any rifle I've used. Before the Peltor's, I couldnt hear range commands, now I hear the guys on the other range talking. Truly awesome. They're about a buck and a half, and worth every penny IMO. Eric
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 7:48:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2001 7:48:39 PM EDT by Colt_M4_Carbine]
You guys really need to try the Pro-ears muffs. I have both, the Peltors and the Pro-ears. The Pro-ears are, by far, the better choice. They don't completely turn off the sound when there is a shot going off, they compress the sound. [url]http://www.pro-ears.com[/url] For Outdoors, Rifles and Shotguns: [img]http://www.pro-ears.com/E-DSC.jpg[/img] For Indoors and Magnums: [img]http://www.pro-ears.com/E-DPM.jpg[/img] For all other times: [:D] [img]http://www.colt.com/colt/assets/images/a2f27_m203grenade.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 8:58:43 PM EDT
I have been shooting for the past 15 years on & off. I went for a hearing test a few months ago. The doc drew a curve of my hearing of each of my ears, and right away he could tell that I was a shooter. He noticed a definited degradation of my right ear, and said that is typical of a right-handed firearms person. I told him that I use both the foam plugs and an ear muff, and he said that it didn't matter too much because some of the sound is transmitted thru the bones. So now I try to limit my to exposure magnums, and when my friends are shooting magnums in an indoor range, I stand outside of the shooting area. My range supplies hearing protection, but I supply my own because their does not suppress the noise too much.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 9:26:57 PM EDT
I usually just use plugs, but use plugs + muffs when shooting .50s, or when near others who are shooting them or other big guns with muzzle brakes.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 5:05:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Colt M4 Carbine: You guys really need to try the Pro-ears muffs. I have both, the Peltors and the Pro-ears. The Pro-ears are, by far, the better choice. They don't completely turn off the sound when there is a shot going off, they compress the sound. [url]http://www.pro-ears.com[/url] For Outdoors, Rifles and Shotguns: [img]http://www.pro-ears.com/E-DSC.jpg[/img] For Indoors and Magnums: [img]http://www.pro-ears.com/E-DPM.jpg[/img] For all other times: [:D] [img]http://www.colt.com/colt/assets/images/a2f27_m203grenade.gif[/img]
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Unfortunately the compression attack time is too short to cut off before the sound gets to your ear. The true protection comes from what is called peak clipping which is the speaker's ceiling on how loud it will go. It would take an attack time of less than 1 millisecond to actually react fast enough to noise and the circuitry just does not work that fast. I am not familiar with the Pro-ears brand but I sure would like other options to suggest to people.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 8:54:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjimbob: The true protection comes from what is called peak clipping which is the speaker's ceiling on how loud it will go.
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Actually, the clipping is not a function of the speaker, but of the electronics involved. I haven't seen the latest design's, though, the basic concept is, outside sound is amplified in several steps. At some point, in the amplification process, there is a comparator circuit. At the comparator circuit, the signal is compared to a preset voltage level, if the signal is greater than the predetermined signal, then a feedback signal is generated, shutting off or limiting one or more amplifiers. It would seem that the best way to overcome the 1 millisecond reaction time, would be to turn to digital processing and the use of digital delay circuit's and RAM memory. I imagine though the cost of building such a beast would be quite high.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 10:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2001 10:49:31 PM EDT by FrankSquid]
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 11:21:36 PM EDT
I use the foam plugs by E.A.R. and others. I roll 'em up like a booger and reach over my head with my opposite hand and insert them so that they're flush, or nearly so, with the outer ear. Supposed to have a NRR of around 30dB or so. I've been in a hearing conservation program for 13 years now and receive annual audiograms. No threshold shifts and things still look the same as they did for my baseline 13 years ago. Must be doing something right.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 10:50:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim Dandy: I use the foam plugs by E.A.R. and others. I roll 'em up like a booger and reach over my head with my opposite hand and insert them so that they're flush, or nearly so, with the outer ear. Supposed to have a NRR of around 30dB or so. I've been in a hearing conservation program for 13 years now and receive annual audiograms. No threshold shifts and things still look the same as they did for my baseline 13 years ago. Must be doing something right.
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No threshold shifts means you are using adequate hearing protection and using proper insertion technique. However, when using rifles/pistols/shotguns, the sound will actually vibrate your skull and the sound is transmitted through bone conduction so the best form of hearing protection is to use a pair of plugs in combination with muffs.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:27:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GI Brat: I wear these at work, mowing the yard and sleeping during the day (Graveyard Shift)
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Careful about sleeping with earplugs in, with 8 hours of plugged ears, you stand a chance for a lack of drainage of even small amounts of fluids, and can have an increased exposure to ear infections. Ear infections can also lead toward permanent hearing loss.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:40:35 AM EDT
drjimbob - I have used the custom molded earplugs for a few years now, and they seem to be much better at attenuation than the foamies. Any thoughts on those? Also, given that the entire bone mass in the head will resonate, do you truly recommend the muffs and plugs? I understand that for many people that is a preference, as they may not be good at installing the plugs, but...
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:42:53 AM EDT
One other note for everyone: Just as you don't ride motorcycles with your mouth open (unless of course, you like bugs in your teeth)... Sound can definitely enter through your mouth, and some sound can enter that way. Try it out sometime with earplugs and earmuffs on... it's freaky. So when you are shooting, wipe that big cheesy grin off your face! [:)]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 7:00:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: drjimbob - I have used the custom molded earplugs for a few years now, and they seem to be much better at attenuation than the foamies. Any thoughts on those? Also, given that the entire bone mass in the head will resonate, do you truly recommend the muffs and plugs? I understand that for many people that is a preference, as they may not be good at installing the plugs, but...
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Custom molded plugs usually work better because they are easier to insert properly. If you insert foam plugs properly (which most people do not) then there is actually little difference. Custom molded plugs are uncomfortable if not properly inserted so most people take the time to get them in right and they are formed just for your ears and therefore are easier to insert. Doubling up...plugs + muffs is definitely the best form of hearing protection. Just try shooting with plugs only and then put a muff over the plugs. It is pretty obvious which is best.
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 7:10:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IrvineGunNut: One other note for everyone: Just as you don't ride motorcycles with your mouth open (unless of course, you like bugs in your teeth)... Sound can definitely enter through your mouth, and some sound can enter that way. Try it out sometime with earplugs and earmuffs on... it's freaky. So when you are shooting, wipe that big cheesy grin off your face! [:)]
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Funny, i always wondered why i never was hungry after riding for a long time......[smoke]
Link Posted: 5/26/2001 7:22:47 PM EDT
I work around turbine engines most of the day (Flight Engineer, aircraft maintainer) and I have done this for almost 19 years. Unless otherwise required I wear EAR foamies alone. Sometimes I am required to wear foamies and hearing protectors. Whenever I am on the aircraft I wear foamies with my headset. While shooting I wear only foamies. I have been involved with a hearing conservation program from day one in the military, and my hearing has increased since I joined. (probably because I don't go to rock concerts or loud dance bars anymore) I have been looking at the Peltor Tactical 7 muffs since last week when a friend let me borrow his. So where is the cheapest place to buy a set of these on line? The local stores have them for $180+ around here.
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