Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/8/2002 10:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2002 10:56:21 PM EDT by 1GUNRUNNER]
Atlas Shrugged It's the second most read book in the world besides the bible. According to Benjamin0001
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:09:20 PM EDT
yeah, Ayn Rand is pretty famous. She also wrote the fountainhead among some other books. Her books are like a bible to its own, they have quite a following.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:18:21 PM EDT
Well if they are read second only to the bible, I would sat they should have quite a following! I like to think of myself as not the dullest drill in the index but, I have never heard of any of this.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:19:49 PM EDT
I've read The Foutainhead but never taken the time to read Atlas Shrugged She was an interesting gal to say the least.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:24:39 PM EDT
Not the second most read book, but came in #2 behind the Big B. in a poll asking the question: "Which book most influenced your life?" or something to that effect.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:26:57 PM EDT
Ayn Rand is the founder of the philosophy of Objectivism. There's an institute that bears her name.
Link Posted: 2/8/2002 11:48:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 12:49:10 AM EDT by flashman]
Ayn Rand is the patron saint of libertarians. They worship at her feet. I was the first to answer the nsfjojo thread. Took me five mins. to find the answer. Before I looked, I had no idea who Nathaniel what’s his name was. Mike
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 12:55:04 AM EDT
Never heard of it. Never read it. What's it about? Who are the characters? Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 1:25:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:23:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 4:29:02 AM EDT by raven]
Yeah, The Bible for people who don't like The Bible. It's about a group of industrials who get tired of the government getting in their way and trying to assert control over their lives. So they basically go on strike to show the world how beneficial their self-interested efforts are to the world(they are the "Atlas" of the title). There's a really good bit by a bureaucrat who tells what the score is and what government's aims are. It could have been written by Hillary Clinton. I'll find it an post it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:31:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 4:32:29 AM EDT by raven]
Says the bureaucrat Floyd Ferris: "You honest men are such a problem and such a headache. But we knew you'd slip sooner or later . . . [and break one of our regulations] . . . this is just what we wanted." Rearden: "You seem to be pleased about it." Bureaucrat Ferris: "Don't I have good reason to be?" Rearden: "But, after all, I did break one of your laws." Bureaucrat Ferris: "Well, what do you think they're there for?" Continues bureaucrat Ferris: [b]"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against . . . We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."[/b]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:41:19 AM EDT
Sure, Ann R. was a personal friend of the Texan Dog in question over at Dunguses' place. Made great chili too. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong here guys--> Ann R. actually was the one who finally found and rescued ole Dung and the Texan dog holed up in some mine in south Arkansas, that was at least a couple of weeks after after the kidanpping of the police dog from the cruiser at the hospital...Jeezus, What a mess. The whole thing hinged on Dungie [soapbox]getting more sleep and when that didn't happen, well, lets just say...the SHTF quick.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:44:53 AM EDT
Great book. You'll really like it if you happen to believe---as I do---that individual liberties are important, and that the less govenment, the better.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 5:54:18 AM EDT
All true, the least government [b]is[/b] the best government. But there is still a need for that 'least' government! Otherwise I might be tempted to put out a shingle - 'brain surgery done dirt cheap!' And if anyone's stupid enough to take me up on my offer of neurosurgery, Hey! that's just a matter between the two of us! Butt out![:D] The value of AR's classic work is that it goes against human government's steady march toward totalitarianism! Eric The(LibertarianRepublican)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:12:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven: "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against . . . We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
View Quote
There is no way on God's green earth that you'd get one of the Schumer-Clinton-Boxer-Feinstein-Jackson-Byrd-Daschle crowd to admit to the truth like this. It's a nice flight of fancy, though.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:17:46 AM EDT
I've read "Atlas Shrugged" four times, and I just started the fifth time (in over 12 years). It's a LOOOOOOOOOONG read, but definitely worth it. You don't have to go away feeling transformed, but there is A LOT of truth in there.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:29:37 AM EDT
I've heard of most/several/some of her books. But I've never read any of them.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:33:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 6:41:13 AM EDT by KBaker]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: All true, the least government [b]is[/b] the best government. But there is still a need for that 'least' government! Eric The(LibertarianRepublican)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Government is a necessary evil. Unfortunately in an elective government, the electorate tends to ignore or forget that government [i]is[/i] evil. Thus the Alexander Tytler quote:
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of govermnent. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most from the public treasury with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship.
View Quote
Our Founding Fathers tried their best to set up a constrained "least" government, but from [i]day one[/i] it started getting bigger. As a lawyer, Eric, your livelyhood is [i]dependent[/i] on a bloated government - you are a high-priest of the modern religion: Interpreter of the Books of Law. The non-anointed need your guidance through the labrynth of obscure, conflicting, esoteric and extensively cross-referenced verbiage that fills law libraries to the rafters. Words written not to help make men more free, but more constrained. Ayn Rand was right. (Edited to add: That's an observation, Mr. Hun, not a flame. You either work with the system as it is, or get run over by it. Were I in a position to need a lawyer in your area, you'd be on the top of my list.)
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:36:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 6:38:05 AM EDT by Spearweasel]
Originally Posted By flashman: Ayn Rand is the patron saint of libertarians. They worship at her feet. I was the first to answer the nsfjojo thread. Took me five mins. to find the answer. Before I looked, I had no idea who Nathaniel what’s his name was. Mike
View Quote
Not quite. Some do. Others find her to be a callous old windbag. I'm somewhere in the middle... she had interesting ideas. But to be honest, the few people I've known that claimed to be actual Objectivists were usually insufferable assholes that I really didn't want much to do with.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:39:56 AM EDT
Good book. Quite the watershed and definitive book on Objectivism. (my puny attention span caused me to take nearly a month to read it!) I also like [u]Anthem[/u]. It's a very short read and very anti-collectivist. from [u]Anthem[/u]: " Our name is Equality 7-2521, as it is written on the iron bracelet which all men wear on their left wrists with their names upon it. We are twenty-one years old. We are six feet tall, and this is a burden, for there are not many men who are six feet tall. Ever have the Teachers and the Leaders pointed to us and frowned and said: 'There is evil in your bones, Equality 7-2521, for your body has grown beyond the bodies of your brothers.' But we cannot change our bones nor our body. We were born with a curse. It has always driven us to thoughts which are forbidden. It has always given us wishes which men may not wish. We know that we are evil, but there is no will in us and no power to resist it. This is our wonder and our secret fear, that we know and do not resist. We strive to be like all our brother men, for all men must be alike. Over the portals of the Palace of the World Council, there are words cut in the marble, which we repeat to ourselves whenever we are tempted: 'We are one in all and all in one. There are no men but only the great WE, One, indivisible and forever.' "
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 8:26:28 AM EDT
Tried to read "AS", but gave up after about 20 pages. Drove me nuts. "What are you trying to say?" It's supposed to be the bible of libertarianism, but as it is, Ayn Rand was born in Russia, and her native language _is_ Russian, and it seems her style of writing was heavily influenced by her Russian colleagues in writing....long-winded, depressing, loquacious, all monologue....makes Dickens a pleasant read. "Anthem" is way shorter, and says about the same on a tenth of the pages.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 8:36:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: Atlas Shrugged It's the second most read book in the world besides the bible. According to Benjamin0001
View Quote
Where does the Koran fit in?
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 8:42:37 AM EDT
Funny you brought this up... I just bought the book the other day. I'm going to have to set some time aside for it though, it looks like a heavy read. Now I've got three books on deck and dunno which I should read first; The Bear and the Dragon, Black Hawk Down or Atlas Shrugged. Any suggestions? But it doesn't really matter, I'll read them all eventually. This thread's got me more interested in AS now.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 9:07:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 9:10:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: ....makes Dickens a pleasant read.
View Quote
LOL
"Anthem" is way shorter, and says about the same on a tenth of the pages.
View Quote
Absolutely!
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 10:07:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 10:10:43 AM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By Gunbert: and dunno which I should read first; The Bear and the Dragon, Black Hawk Down or Atlas Shrugged.
View Quote
Black hawk Down , it's a fast read & it'll get you going. I always develop momentum when I'm reading a good book & that makes it easier to get going on the next one, especially if it's a more "substantial" volume. [:)>]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 10:53:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: All true, the least government [b]is[/b] the best government. But there is still a need for that 'least' government!
View Quote
Ok, I'm with you so far.
Otherwise I might be tempted to put out a shingle - 'brain surgery done dirt cheap!' And if anyone's stupid enough to take me up on my offer of neurosurgery, Hey! that's just a matter between the two of us! Butt out![:D]
View Quote
The main remedy against such practices in libertarian philosophy is tort law. You would be sued into oblivion after your first patient. Alternately, your heirs could sue your first patient's family for wrongful death, after the patient's family converged upon you and tore you apart. I sincerely doubt that your heirs would be able to get any sort of judgement in their favor in a libertarian society, however.
The value of AR's classic work is that it goes against human government's steady march toward totalitarianism! Eric The(LibertarianRepublican)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
If you're a "Libertarian Republican", that must mean that Hillary Clinton is a True Conservative Republican.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 12:29:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: Eric The(LibertarianRepublican)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
Good call, bro. Same here.[:D] Tyler(AnotherLibertarianRepublican)Durden
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 1:51:39 PM EDT
So who want's to send me a copy of the book; so I can be enlightened.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:05:42 PM EDT
I'll read a thousand page Clancy novel in a week, but it took me over a year to hobble through Atlas Shrugged. When I say "hobble" I'm talking about the kind of pain when you put a piece of timber between your ankles and someone takes a sledgehammer and breaks your ankles. I'm glad I read it, and glad I finally finished it, but it's not for the faint of heart.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:27:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Texason: I'll read a thousand page Clancy novel in a week, but it took me over a year to hobble through Atlas Shrugged. When I say "hobble" I'm talking about the kind of pain when you put a piece of timber between your ankles and someone takes a sledgehammer and breaks your ankles. I'm glad I read it, and glad I finally finished it, but it's not for the faint of heart.
View Quote
So, you're saying Rand's prose isn't exactly scintillating? I was afraid of that. I prefer to [i]read[/i] a book rather than slog through it.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:35:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia: Never heard of it. Never read it. What's it about? Who are the characters?
View Quote
I feel ignored; nobody said a thing.[}:D]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 2:50:56 PM EDT
Funny that this should come up, I just finished reading Atlas Shrugged a couple of weeks ago. The book is 50 years old, so it's a little dated. Not in concept, but in the delivery. The overbearing, socialist government entities are too transparent and obvious to be believable today. After a lifetime of experience with subtle, crafty, and very devious government, Rands characters came across a bit cartoonish. It's very eerie though to read this book written half a century ago, and find that the government today behaves in exactly the manner Rand described then. Every bit as self serving to the people in power, condescending and believing that govt has the answers better than private individuals, decrying personal achievement and ambition as selfish and evil. Mostly deals with economic issues of industry, but it's a pretty good read.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:00:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2002 3:01:40 PM EDT by KBaker]
They made a film of [i][u]The Fountainhead[/i][/u]. It starred Gary Cooper. Has anyone seen it?
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 3:17:18 PM EDT
Guess I've led a sheltered life [:I]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:31:33 PM EDT
Objectivists, including Rand, believed the libertarians plagerized Objectivist philiosphy and I quote from one of Rands speeches "..or the sundry libertarians, who subsitute anarchy for capitalism..." I've even picked up that the hardcore objectivists threatened to throw out some libetarian sympathizers from their elite clique. Even talking to them might get you banned. And Fransico, I thought it was so subtle I chuckled for the rest of the thread. Good post. 1GUNRUNNER, be careful with this book, you will rage, you'll laugh, cheer, cry and feel an awful lot of other emotions while reading it. Don't skip Galts long speach as it holds so much knowledge, keep with it. To those that are soon to read it, please, read it with attention to detail and conceptualize (analytical thinking) the points made during some of the characters speeches. You'll transform your mind, I guarantee it. [):)] NSF
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:36:59 PM EDT
"Atlas Shrugged" is on my list of things to read. But right now I'm in the middle of "Unintended Consequences" and plan on reading "Black Hawk Down" after that, so I may not get to it for a while. As other posters suggested, you should also read "Anthem". It's only 100 pages and I finished it in about 3 days. It is a very easy read. After I finished it, I thought "Holy crap! She wrote exactly what I was thinking!!" "Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds"-Anthem
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:47:14 PM EDT
A. Rand = AR Coincidence... I don't think so!
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 4:52:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KBaker: They made a film of [i][u]The Fountainhead[/i][/u]. It starred Gary Cooper. Has anyone seen it?
View Quote
You just missed it. It was on AMC yesterday.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 6:13:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NSFJojo: 1GUNRUNNER, be careful with this book, you will rage, you'll laugh, cheer, cry and feel an awful lot of other emotions while reading it. Don't skip Galts long speach as it holds so much knowledge, keep with it.
View Quote
[img]http://www.attackcartoons.com/lmvigilant.GIF[/img]
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 7:06:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 7:54:21 PM EDT
I would really recommend the book. I also liked the book she wrote about a woman like her living in the Soviet Union."We, The Living"? I find the book even more true nowdays than when she wrote it half a century ago. Europe keeps getting more & more socialist. America is still holding on but swings back and forth with each administration.
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 8:13:19 PM EDT
I was told that the book "WE" has connection with the Rush song "Tom Sawyer"
Link Posted: 2/9/2002 10:42:13 PM EDT
Thanks NSFJoJo. I was really hoping to get someone to copy-paste the CliffNotes version into their post without thinking long enough. I am plenty happy that you at least got a chuckle out of it though. On other matters... I concur with those who recommend Anthem as an addition or alternate to reading Atlas Shrugged. It is short and easy to read, but contains much of the philosophical content. Texason, if you found Atlas Shrugged to be that "painful", do not ever read Moby Dick.
Top Top