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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:55:40 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:


Obviously. I'm not talking about violations on the part of the employer.
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There is no other one involved than the employee. Employer/employee interviews are just that. I think you are reading to far into what I said. The .gov can't violate the rights of the person when they are not involved and neither party is acting as an agent of.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:55:43 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By StarJumper:


When you ship a lot of items, it isn't your thought process that you need to get a receipt. You're assuming that sooner or later the item will get scanned because every other time, the item gets scanned at the facility or by the processor when they get a moment.

Even if neither the guy at the UPS store nor the driver scans the item, the item will get scanned at the facility. 99.99% of the time, this really isn't a big deal.

I've done that a million times and you don't know until you know, that stupid shit does occasionally happen. It may be months/weeks later but even then the item will show up in some conveyor belt.
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Originally Posted By StarJumper:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:


He fucked up and dropped it off at FedEx when it was labeled for UPS. There would be no scan in this situation. The guy should've paid more attention to what he was doing, dropped it off at the right place, and gotten a receipt for the drop-off. The point is he didn't steal it. It kind of seems like he was set up due to the fact that it was supposedly missing for two weeks and then miraculously shows up minutes after GBRS has him arrested.


When you ship a lot of items, it isn't your thought process that you need to get a receipt. You're assuming that sooner or later the item will get scanned because every other time, the item gets scanned at the facility or by the processor when they get a moment.

Even if neither the guy at the UPS store nor the driver scans the item, the item will get scanned at the facility. 99.99% of the time, this really isn't a big deal.

I've done that a million times and you don't know until you know, that stupid shit does occasionally happen. It may be months/weeks later but even then the item will show up in some conveyor belt.


I ship a lot of packages and ALWAYS get a drop-off receipt. This is especially true if the package contains a firearm, which it did in this case.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:57:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By UV18:



They should. But remember this is GD where you never talk to the cops

They should have interviewed him WAY before handcuffs. This is a guy that probably has a clean background and is somewhat normal. It should have been an interview LONG before cuffs go on. But, this goes back to the GD theory of never talk to the police no matter what.

Everyone should get burned in this but it is the business that has the real culpability in it. They should have already done their internal investigation about it and not relied solely on LE to come save the day. The employee interview can be used by LE for the criminal case and there is no worries about rights violations.
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Could the guy have been any more cooperative and understanding with the cops?
Even after them royally fucking up, he doesn't even blame them for fucking up...
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:58:47 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By UV18:



There is no other one involved than the employee. Employer/employee interviews are just that. I think you are reading to far into what I said. The .gov can't violate the rights of the person when they are not involved and neither party is acting as an agent of.
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:


Obviously. I'm not talking about violations on the part of the employer.



There is no other one involved than the employee. Employer/employee interviews are just that. I think you are reading to far into what I said. The .gov can't violate the rights of the person when they are not involved and neither party is acting as an agent of.


I was responding to this quote:

"The employee interview can be used by LE for the criminal case and there is no worries about rights violations."

The other one involved is law enforcement, which is who I took the above quote to be in reference to. Rights violations wouldn't come from the business, but from the government/police.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 1:59:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: OCW] [#5]
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Originally Posted By StarJumper:


Could the guy have been any more cooperative and understanding with the cops?
Even after them royally fucking up, he doesn't even blame them for fucking up...
View Quote


The kid demonstrated more integrity, through the entire ordeal, than that POS cop ever will. How he conducted himself, is who he is.

Every report he has ever filed should immediately come under heavy scrutiny.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:01:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ] [#6]
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Originally Posted By OCW:


The kid demonstrated more integrity, through the entire ordeal, than that POS cop ever will. How he conducted himself, is who he is.
View Quote


Very true. He's a slimeball, which is unfortunate. That's not the type of man we need serving our communities. Guess he fits in with the GBRS slogan of "loyalty over integrity". Don't do the right thing when you and your buddies fuck up, just do everything you can to protect them instead of whatever you can to accept responsibility and make it right.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:02:59 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:


Very true. He's a slimeball, which is unfortunate. That's not the type of man we need serving our communities. Guess he fits in with the GBRS slogan of "loyalty over integrity".
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By OCW:


The kid demonstrated more integrity, through the entire ordeal, than that POS cop ever will. How he conducted himself, is who he is.


Very true. He's a slimeball, which is unfortunate. That's not the type of man we need serving our communities. Guess he fits in with the GBRS slogan of "loyalty over integrity".


How many lies are in all of his previous reports?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:03:04 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By StarJumper:


Could the guy have been any more cooperative and understanding with the cops?
Even after them royally fucking up, he doesn't even blame them for fucking up...
View Quote


The guy is too cool with the whole thing. I would be upset. All the signs of not being guilty, which 1 of the 3 cops should have caught onto.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:03:28 PM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By UV18:



Easily an arrest. The business is the one that claimed the theft. They are the ones offering the evidence of the theft and witnesses to it. It is on the business for the arrest. They offered the crime, evidence, and the story to support it.

I also question the stolen item returning so quickly. It just doesn't make sense. Something is seriously off with it and it looks more like they are trying to save face and fix their screw-up. Cops will be viewed as acting in good faith in regards to investigating the theft. Just think if this guy followed your advice and never said a word to try and fix his name. Just shut up and sat there pleading the 5th.

The business will pay, as they should. They should also have video of that package showing up, right?

I am curious as to where he went with the package. We have a UPS box I used ONCE! I went to drop an item and the line was 30 people long (during the labor negotiations). Worker said to use the box outside, so I did. My package never was scanned. So, I started the claim and redid the package. When I went back I noticed the box was sitting there. I pulled open the unlocked door and my item was still there along with a bunch of other ones. I took pics and sent them to the local area manager. I threw all the packages on the counter and told them how incompetent they were, since it was the same person that told me to drop it working the counter. I left the door wide open so no one else would drop it in there.
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


I had to make my video by piecing together clips the dude posted on instagram. I reached out to both sides, but nobody responded. So there's footage I did not have available. I see now that someone has now tried to call me. So maybe I can get the rest of the video/story.

If it happened to come in 10 minutes later, then why was the guy held for 5 fucking hours? Was the fan girl cop really talking with his boy for 5 hours before they could release this guy? And to claim that he wasn't arrested after being hauled off in handcuffs and then returned 5 hours later.... lol

That's why I put this more on the cop than the company. I don't know all the facts. But I do know the Constitution. The company isn't capable of violating this guy's 4A rights. But the cops sure as hell did. Because they're tripping over themselves to slobber all over these guys' knobs. It's also weird that all these guys look like clones of each other. They should probably pick at least one nerdy business guy to join their club, to make important decisions.

eta: in full disclosure I'd probably join their club, if they'd let me. They probably need a lawyer too. Just saying... I do have a beard now.



Easily an arrest. The business is the one that claimed the theft. They are the ones offering the evidence of the theft and witnesses to it. It is on the business for the arrest. They offered the crime, evidence, and the story to support it.

I also question the stolen item returning so quickly. It just doesn't make sense. Something is seriously off with it and it looks more like they are trying to save face and fix their screw-up. Cops will be viewed as acting in good faith in regards to investigating the theft. Just think if this guy followed your advice and never said a word to try and fix his name. Just shut up and sat there pleading the 5th.

The business will pay, as they should. They should also have video of that package showing up, right?

I am curious as to where he went with the package. We have a UPS box I used ONCE! I went to drop an item and the line was 30 people long (during the labor negotiations). Worker said to use the box outside, so I did. My package never was scanned. So, I started the claim and redid the package. When I went back I noticed the box was sitting there. I pulled open the unlocked door and my item was still there along with a bunch of other ones. I took pics and sent them to the local area manager. I threw all the packages on the counter and told them how incompetent they were, since it was the same person that told me to drop it working the counter. I left the door wide open so no one else would drop it in there.


When did I give that advice? Of course he should have explained that he did nothing wrong, which he did.

I know that it was an arrest. It shouldn't have been, which is the whole point.

They admit up front they didn't have probable cause to make a warrantless arrest (which is also important, because an arrest warrant should/could be obtained prior to arresting him, which is better for everyone, for many reasons), that they were going to conduct an investigatory detention. Those are legal if supported by reasonable suspicion, which certainly existed. Those must be reasonable under the circumstances. That would have been questioning the guy for something less than 5 hours in leg shackles, I would imagine...

As of the point they grabbed him, they did not have enough evidence to even obtain an arrest warrant. They were told things. They hadn't verified them and secured the evidence. Most importantly, they hadn't even bothered to question the witness.

Probable cause isn't a terribly difficult standard to meet. But I don't think they met it here. Add in the footage showing this personal relationship and what was said inside, and in particular the admission they supposedly found the item 10 minutes later....

I've actually defended people charged with felony crimes, including taking cash from stores and never showing up to deposit at the bank. There's a reason most actual companies that deal with these sorts of things from time to time don't generally go full retard right from the get go and send their employee to some black site in leg shackles.  FFS... This is some swampy government shit here.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:05:07 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:


I was responding to this quote:

"The employee interview can be used by LE for the criminal case and there is no worries about rights violations."

The other one involved is law enforcement, which is who I took the above quote to be in reference to. Rights violations wouldn't come from the business, but from the government/police.

View Quote


There is no LE during an employer/employee interview. Can they be present? Yes. I prefer they are done away from any LE influence at all. You don't want the agent aspect to come up.

Employer/employee interviews are compulsory per the employment. Either they cooperate or they are fired for it. There is no .gov action as part of it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:06:07 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By OCW:


How many lies are in all of his previous reports?
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The defense attorneys are lining up already.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:06:30 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


When did I give that advice? Of course he should have explained that he did nothing wrong, which he did.

I know that it was an arrest. It shouldn't have been, which is the whole point.

They admit up front they didn't have probable cause to make a warrantless arrest (which is also important, because an arrest warrant should/could be obtained prior to arresting him, which is better for everyone, for many reasons), that they were going to conduct an investigatory detention. Those are legal if supported by reasonable suspicion, which certainly existed. Those must be reasonable under the circumstances. That would have been questioning the guy for something less than 5 hours in leg shackles, I would imagine...

As of the point they grabbed him, they did not have enough evidence to even obtain an arrest warrant. They were told things. They hadn't verified them and secured the evidence. Most importantly, they hadn't even bothered to question the witness.

Probable cause isn't a terribly difficult standard to meet. But I don't think they met it here. Add in the footage showing this personal relationship and what was said inside, and in particular the admission they supposedly found the item 10 minutes later....

I've actually defended people charged with felony crimes, including taking cash from stores and never showing up to deposit at the bank. There's a reason most actual companies that deal with these sorts of things from time to time don't generally go full retard right from the get go and send their employee to some black site in leg shackles.  FFS... This is some swampy government shit here.
View Quote


This is all true and should be blatantly obvious to @UV18. Regarding this as a good arrest is way off base.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:09:28 PM EDT
[#13]
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:


@joker581

How does a CBD pen make him a prohibited possesser? It's a federally (and state of VA) legal substance.
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By joker581:


Okay. Again, Virginia’s state law has absolutely nothing to do with what I’m talking about, which is the issue of him being a prohibited possessor of firearms under federal law, and the impact that may potentially have on his employment at a company with an FFL where part of his job entails possessing firearms.


@joker581

How does a CBD pen make him a prohibited possesser? It's a federally (and state of VA) legal substance.


Well, if it was illegal then it would make him a prohibited person.

Or if they made a mistake looking at the calendar and thought it said 1824 then that would work too.  

Gotta really focus on the what ifs instead of the shown on camera stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:13:19 PM EDT
[#14]
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Originally Posted By Urbdok:


Well, if it was illegal then it would make him a prohibited person.

Or if they made a mistake looking at the calendar and thought it said 1824 then that would work too.  

Gotta really focus on the what ifs instead of the shown on camera stuff.
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Originally Posted By Urbdok:
Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By joker581:


Okay. Again, Virginia’s state law has absolutely nothing to do with what I’m talking about, which is the issue of him being a prohibited possessor of firearms under federal law, and the impact that may potentially have on his employment at a company with an FFL where part of his job entails possessing firearms.


@joker581

How does a CBD pen make him a prohibited possesser? It's a federally (and state of VA) legal substance.


Well, if it was illegal then it would make him a prohibited person.

Or if they made a mistake looking at the calendar and thought it said 1824 then that would work too.  

Gotta really focus on the what ifs instead of the shown on camera stuff.


Or they could could just keep their hands out of the pockets of an innocent and free American citizen. It's none of their fucking business in the first place.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:14:35 PM EDT
[#15]
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:


So the police shouldn't perform any investigation beyond taking the word of the business before arresting him and charging him with a felony? It wouldn't help in many situations to speak with the accused (hear both sides of the story) prior to going straight to an arrest?

They arrested him because he left with a package and returned without it, even though he's in charge of shipping. The police were completely incompetent and shouldn't have made the arrest in this situation without substantial investigation beyond what they had, nor should they have told the business they would do everything they could "with the paperwork" to remove any culpability from them (GBRS). Crooked behavior because he's their buddy.
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By UV18:



Easily an arrest. The business is the one that claimed the theft. They are the ones offering the evidence of the theft and witnesses to it. It is on the business for the arrest. They offered the crime, evidence, and the story to support it.

I also question the stolen item returning so quickly. It just doesn't make sense. Something is seriously off with it and it looks more like they are trying to save face and fix their screw-up. Cops will be viewed as acting in good faith in regards to investigating the theft. Just think if this guy followed your advice and never said a word to try and fix his name. Just shut up and sat there pleading the 5th.

The business will pay, as they should. They should also have video of that package showing up, right?

I am curious as to where he went with the package. We have a UPS box I used ONCE! I went to drop an item and the line was 30 people long (during the labor negotiations). Worker said to use the box outside, so I did. My package never was scanned. So, I started the claim and redid the package. When I went back I noticed the box was sitting there. I pulled open the unlocked door and my item was still there along with a bunch of other ones. I took pics and sent them to the local area manager. I threw all the packages on the counter and told them how incompetent they were, since it was the same person that told me to drop it working the counter. I left the door wide open so no one else would drop it in there.


So the police shouldn't perform any investigation beyond taking the word of the business before arresting him and charging him with a felony? It wouldn't help in many situations to speak with the accused (hear both sides of the story) prior to going straight to an arrest?

They arrested him because he left with a package and returned without it, even though he's in charge of shipping. The police were completely incompetent and shouldn't have made the arrest in this situation without substantial investigation beyond what they had, nor should they have told the business they would do everything they could "with the paperwork" to remove any culpability from them (GBRS). Crooked behavior because he's their buddy.


If gbrs accused one, or all, of the responding officers of stealing while inside the building the arrest(s) would have occurred immediately too.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:15:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


When did I give that advice? Of course he should have explained that he did nothing wrong, which he did.

I know that it was an arrest. It shouldn't have been, which is the whole point.

They admit up front they didn't have probable cause to make a warrantless arrest (which is also important, because an arrest warrant should/could be obtained prior to arresting him, which is better for everyone, for many reasons), that they were going to conduct an investigatory detention. Those are legal if supported by reasonable suspicion, which certainly existed. Those must be reasonable under the circumstances. That would have been questioning the guy for something less than 5 hours in leg shackles, I would imagine...

As of the point they grabbed him, they did not have enough evidence to even obtain an arrest warrant. They were told things. They hadn't verified them and secured the evidence. Most importantly, they hadn't even bothered to question the witness.

Probable cause isn't a terribly difficult standard to meet. But I don't think they met it here. Add in the footage showing this personal relationship and what was said inside, and in particular the admission they supposedly found the item 10 minutes later....

I've actually defended people charged with felony crimes, including taking cash from stores and never showing up to deposit at the bank. There's a reason most actual companies that deal with these sorts of things from time to time don't generally go full retard right from the get go and send their employee to some black site in leg shackles.  FFS... This is some swampy government shit here.
View Quote


Wait? You are saying you never said "don't talk to the police"? I don't want to re-watch your videos but I am betting money it is there

A warrant offers no more protection to the process than the arrest. The same set of circumstances and information is used for both. Either it is there or it isn't.

They had the PC they needed. Was it weak? Absolutely. You have witnesses accusing someone of a crime. Evidence is their records showing it was supposed to be shipped, he left with it, and the item was never shipped. PC is a weak threshold and they met it. Now, procedural and due diligence should have everything else you said. But we are talking PC and not case ready. An AW will usually be case ready where a PC arrest will not. With the PC they had, there was enough for the arrest and further investigation. There is so much wrong here though that should have been done from the beginning. The cops are horrible investigators and/or corrupt and willing to let a personal relationship alter their investigation process.

And you can't use the hindsight for the PC issue. I agree this is horrible all the way around and don't support what occurred. But the PC side was there. The investigation was non-existent beyond what the alleged victims provided. That is a HUGE problem for me, as I have long practiced and taught guys to actually investigate. The interview aspect is critical to this but this suspect showed no sign of actually being guilty, which should have been some huge red flags for any cop that is even mediocre at his job.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:21:30 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't have time to argue this endlessly, but there is a big difference b/w a warrantless arrest and a warrant. A warrant presumes probable cause, the decision having been made by the judge. Now the cop can't violate the Constitution unless false misleading information was given to the judge. And the judge can't be sued of course. To sue under 1983 for a warrantless arrest simply requires proving the absence of probable cause, which is generally a jury issue. So if you're a cop, one method insulates you from liability; and the other gets you a jury trial, assuming you were wrong and someone has made an issue of it.

Likewise, a warrant arrest is much stronger in criminal prosecutions. Moreover, it requires work to have been done first, rather than just arresting first and then asking the questions.

Here, all of this could have very easily been avoided. Had these same cops been called to Home Depot about a missing toilet that never arrived at its destination, they wouldn't have grabbed Joe Blow and performed an extraordinary rendition in order to impress the local store managers....
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:21:34 PM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By FunYun1983:



Whats weird is that the shipping manager is hand delivering packages to the shipper instead having them picked up, but maybe this was some late NDA package they were sending out.  Still weird that it apparently sat at the wrong shipper with a good return address for so long, maybe they had contacted GBRS and expected them to pick it back up?
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Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By kc-coyote:


This really left me wondering WTF is going on at that business.


That raises a pretty big WTF flag with me as well. Aside from the obviously weird timing, where the hell was it for two weeks?

Are the shipping rules any different for FFLs than for the rest of us? I haven't shipped a gun in quite a while, but last time I did, you were required to notify the carrier that it was a firearm. Do FFLs have to do that too?



Whats weird is that the shipping manager is hand delivering packages to the shipper instead having them picked up, but maybe this was some late NDA package they were sending out.  Still weird that it apparently sat at the wrong shipper with a good return address for so long, maybe they had contacted GBRS and expected them to pick it back up?

I've seen plenty of shipping managers drop off a package that needed to go out by the end of the day if the pickup had already been made or if there wasn't going to be one that day.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:21:46 PM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By UV18:


Wait? You are saying you never said "don't talk to the police"? I don't want to re-watch your videos but I am betting money it is there

A warrant offers no more protection to the process than the arrest. The same set of circumstances and information is used for both. Either it is there or it isn't.

They had the PC they needed. Was it weak? Absolutely. You have witnesses accusing someone of a crime. Evidence is their records showing it was supposed to be shipped, he left with it, and the item was never shipped. PC is a weak threshold and they met it. Now, procedural and due diligence should have everything else you said. But we are talking PC and not case ready. An AW will usually be case ready where a PC arrest will not. With the PC they had, there was enough for the arrest and further investigation. There is so much wrong here though that should have been done from the beginning. The cops are horrible investigators and/or corrupt and willing to let a personal relationship alter their investigation process.

And you can't use the hindsight for the PC issue. I agree this is horrible all the way around and don't support what occurred. But the PC side was there. The investigation was non-existent beyond what the alleged victims provided. That is a HUGE problem for me, as I have long practiced and taught guys to actually investigate. The interview aspect is critical to this but this suspect showed no sign of actually being guilty, which should have been some huge red flags for any cop that is even mediocre at his job.
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


When did I give that advice? Of course he should have explained that he did nothing wrong, which he did.

I know that it was an arrest. It shouldn't have been, which is the whole point.

They admit up front they didn't have probable cause to make a warrantless arrest (which is also important, because an arrest warrant should/could be obtained prior to arresting him, which is better for everyone, for many reasons), that they were going to conduct an investigatory detention. Those are legal if supported by reasonable suspicion, which certainly existed. Those must be reasonable under the circumstances. That would have been questioning the guy for something less than 5 hours in leg shackles, I would imagine...

As of the point they grabbed him, they did not have enough evidence to even obtain an arrest warrant. They were told things. They hadn't verified them and secured the evidence. Most importantly, they hadn't even bothered to question the witness.

Probable cause isn't a terribly difficult standard to meet. But I don't think they met it here. Add in the footage showing this personal relationship and what was said inside, and in particular the admission they supposedly found the item 10 minutes later....

I've actually defended people charged with felony crimes, including taking cash from stores and never showing up to deposit at the bank. There's a reason most actual companies that deal with these sorts of things from time to time don't generally go full retard right from the get go and send their employee to some black site in leg shackles.  FFS... This is some swampy government shit here.


Wait? You are saying you never said "don't talk to the police"? I don't want to re-watch your videos but I am betting money it is there

A warrant offers no more protection to the process than the arrest. The same set of circumstances and information is used for both. Either it is there or it isn't.

They had the PC they needed. Was it weak? Absolutely. You have witnesses accusing someone of a crime. Evidence is their records showing it was supposed to be shipped, he left with it, and the item was never shipped. PC is a weak threshold and they met it. Now, procedural and due diligence should have everything else you said. But we are talking PC and not case ready. An AW will usually be case ready where a PC arrest will not. With the PC they had, there was enough for the arrest and further investigation. There is so much wrong here though that should have been done from the beginning. The cops are horrible investigators and/or corrupt and willing to let a personal relationship alter their investigation process.

And you can't use the hindsight for the PC issue. I agree this is horrible all the way around and don't support what occurred. But the PC side was there. The investigation was non-existent beyond what the alleged victims provided. That is a HUGE problem for me, as I have long practiced and taught guys to actually investigate. The interview aspect is critical to this but this suspect showed no sign of actually being guilty, which should have been some huge red flags for any cop that is even mediocre at his job.


Now do the part where he mentioned the report write up.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:22:26 PM EDT
[#20]
I noticed Youtube comments have been turned off from GBRS. Obviously business has been drastically affected.

The little lying cop needs fired.


GBRS needs fired from Virginia Beach.


Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:24:24 PM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By Carpangler:
I noticed Youtube comments have been turned off from GBRS. Obviously business has been drastically affected.

The little lying cop needs fired.


GBRS needs fired from Virginia Beach.


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Not sure why, all of this has to be appealing to a huge percentage of their target market.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:26:44 PM EDT
[#22]
I need to go... but if you look at the prior allegations, which I didn't really know about when I made the video.... it starts to make more sense. Using law enforcement for what should be private or political disputes.... what could go wrong. This really is why we can't have nice things.

https://imgur.com/a/lP4WxCJ
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:28:51 PM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By UV18:


The defense attorneys are lining up already.
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Originally Posted By OCW:


How many lies are in all of his previous reports?


The defense attorneys are lining up already.


I’m curious what the evidence was that you claim made this an easy arrest.

He leaves with the package and returns without it. (Something he presumably does daily, since in his video he claims he shipped hundreds of packages in the two weeks subsequent to the day he shipped the package in question.)

The package doesn’t show it was scanned on the douchebag’s phone.

No investigation beyond that and that’s enough evidence for an immediate arrest?



Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:35:44 PM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By Urbdok:


Now do the part where he mentioned the report write up.
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Already did. If he did it, it is time to prosecute.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:43:34 PM EDT
[#25]
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Originally Posted By LawyerUp:
I don't have time to argue this endlessly, but there is a big difference b/w a warrantless arrest and a warrant. A warrant presumes probable cause, the decision having been made by the judge. Now the cop can't violate the Constitution unless false misleading information was given to the judge. And the judge can't be sued of course. To sue under 1983 for a warrantless arrest simply requires proving the absence of probable cause, which is generally a jury issue. So if you're a cop, one method insulates you from liability; and the other gets you a jury trial, assuming you were wrong and someone has made an issue of it.

Likewise, a warrant arrest is much stronger in criminal prosecutions. Moreover, it requires work to have been done first, rather than just arresting first and then asking the questions.

Here, all of this could have very easily been avoided. Had these same cops been called to Home Depot about a missing toilet that never arrived at its destination, they wouldn't have grabbed Joe Blow and performed an extraordinary rendition in order to impress the local store managers....
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There is NO difference between a warrant arrest or a PC for criminal prosecutions. Difference is a judicial review PRIOR to the arrest. The prosecution of the case does not change at all. Judges toss warrants for lack of PC all the time and there is no different process once it comes to court time. I have NEVER seen a jury look at a PC or a warrant arrest. In fact, it rarely comes up. Never had a defense attorney say a word either.

The liability insulation is a fallacy. The same evidence YOU present is there for both. If you are truthful, the insulation is already there. I argue this all the time during classes where guys will say the judge review is insulation. It is the same information either way. You are going to use the same PC for the warrant as the arrest. The difference is weeks to months of the warrant being approved and how much more crime will that person be doing. The AUSA hates our PC arrests but they just have to deal with it.

The grand jury side is where it gets wishy washy and there is no real review.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:45:23 PM EDT
[#26]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-SEAL-mad-at-Dino-boy-for-pooping-on-Goobers-group/5-2603067/?page=1 from the rabbit hole.

Also, in before, "Have you ever ordered from gbrs? My lower is taking forever."

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:49:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DogtownTom] [#27]
1. The package being returned ten minutes after? Bullshit.
2. Whatever video they have of him "leaving w/package, returning six minutes later"....doesn't prove what package it was.
3. FedEx/UPS/USPS packages being dropped off with the wrong carrier? Happens thousands of times per day. Usually its caught when the carrier scans it in, but if you don't hang around to get a receipt, you dont know you messed up. Which isn't a problem because...
4. FedEx/UPS/USPS will correct the screwup on their own. It may add a day or two but it will be fixed. They just hand off to the correct carrier.
5. When such a drop off error occurs, UPS/FedEx/USPS DO NOT RETURN the package to the sender....they deliver according to the address on the label. Which is why the "it just got returned ten minutes later" is 100% bullshit.
6. Mini cop can look forward to his new career as office cuck shipping manager for his boy.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:51:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stretchman] [#28]
Eta doubletap
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 2:59:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stretchman:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-SEAL-mad-at-Dino-boy-for-pooping-on-Goobers-group/5-2603067/?page=1 from the rabbit hole.

Also, in before, "Have you ever ordered from gbrs? My lower is taking forever."

View Quote


Wow!!  These GBRS dudes are something else.  Plenty of evidence to reveal the type of people they are....
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:04:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
1. The package being returned ten minutes after? Bullshit.
2. Whatever video they have of him "leaving w/package, returning six minutes later"....doesn't prove what package it was.
3. FedEx/UPS/USPS packages being dropped off with the wrong carrier? Happens thousands of times per day. Usually its caught when the carrier scans it in, but if you don't hang around to get a receipt, you dont know you messed up. Which isn't a problem because...
4. FedEx/UPS/USPS will correct the screwup on their own. It may add a day or two but it will be fixed.
5. When such a drop off error occurs, UPS/FedEx/USPS DO NOT RETURN the package to the sender....they deliver according to the address on the label. Which is why the "it just got returned ten minutes later" is 100% bullshit.
6. Mini cop can look forward to his new career as office cuck shipping manager for his boy.
View Quote


Thanks for adding this. I was going to add much of it if uv18 replied to my last post. I ship a lot of packages and mistakes are occasionally made by employees and shippers.

If a package not showing as scanned on your douchebag boss’s phone reaches the threshold for enough PC to immediately arrest you and put you in shackles, without any further investigation, we are completely fucked.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:08:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UV18:


There is NO difference between a warrant arrest or a PC for criminal prosecutions. Difference is a judicial review PRIOR to the arrest. The prosecution of the case does not change at all. Judges toss warrants for lack of PC all the time and there is no different process once it comes to court time. I have NEVER seen a jury look at a PC or a warrant arrest. In fact, it rarely comes up. Never had a defense attorney say a word either.

The liability insulation is a fallacy. The same evidence YOU present is there for both. If you are truthful, the insulation is already there. I argue this all the time during classes where guys will say the judge review is insulation. It is the same information either way. You are going to use the same PC for the warrant as the arrest. The difference is weeks to months of the warrant being approved and how much more crime will that person be doing. The AUSA hates our PC arrests but they just have to deal with it.

The grand jury side is where it gets wishy washy and there is no real review.
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Originally Posted By UV18:
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:
I don't have time to argue this endlessly, but there is a big difference b/w a warrantless arrest and a warrant. A warrant presumes probable cause, the decision having been made by the judge. Now the cop can't violate the Constitution unless false misleading information was given to the judge. And the judge can't be sued of course. To sue under 1983 for a warrantless arrest simply requires proving the absence of probable cause, which is generally a jury issue. So if you're a cop, one method insulates you from liability; and the other gets you a jury trial, assuming you were wrong and someone has made an issue of it.

Likewise, a warrant arrest is much stronger in criminal prosecutions. Moreover, it requires work to have been done first, rather than just arresting first and then asking the questions.

Here, all of this could have very easily been avoided. Had these same cops been called to Home Depot about a missing toilet that never arrived at its destination, they wouldn't have grabbed Joe Blow and performed an extraordinary rendition in order to impress the local store managers....


There is NO difference between a warrant arrest or a PC for criminal prosecutions. Difference is a judicial review PRIOR to the arrest. The prosecution of the case does not change at all. Judges toss warrants for lack of PC all the time and there is no different process once it comes to court time. I have NEVER seen a jury look at a PC or a warrant arrest. In fact, it rarely comes up. Never had a defense attorney say a word either.

The liability insulation is a fallacy. The same evidence YOU present is there for both. If you are truthful, the insulation is already there. I argue this all the time during classes where guys will say the judge review is insulation. It is the same information either way. You are going to use the same PC for the warrant as the arrest. The difference is weeks to months of the warrant being approved and how much more crime will that person be doing. The AUSA hates our PC arrests but they just have to deal with it.

The grand jury side is where it gets wishy washy and there is no real review.


Well, whether you've seen it or not doesn't mean I'm wrong. Start looking at cases all over the country and you'll see it. It may be that you personally never experience the difference - especially if you actually try to do the right thing, which it sounds like you do.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:08:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Unfortunately the law and the legal system protects bad actors so stuff like this keeps happening.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:16:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OCW:


Thanks for adding this. I was going to add much of it if uv18 replied to my last post. I ship a lot of packages and mistakes are occasionally made by employees and shippers.

If a package not showing as scanned on your douchebag boss’s phone reaches the threshold for enough PC to immediately arrest you and put you in shackles, without any further investigation, we are completely fucked.
View Quote


This is why it makes no sense to me that someone here called this an easy arrest. IMO, an "easy arrest" is one that's also a good arrest, not one predicated on some bullshit information provided to you by your buddy, combined with footage of the accused doing exactly what their job calls for. Judging by how this arrest ended up turning out, I would be correct in saying that this was the opposite of an easy arrest. It was a terrible arrest, and one that shouldn't have occurred, even without the benefit of hindsight.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:24:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Are all seals type A personalities?
The seals I seen in public are all overachievers be it at being motivational speakers and doers, charity and community work or being a grade a blue falcon buddy fucker. They do it REALLY well and excel at it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:27:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OCW:


Thanks for adding this. I was going to add much of it if uv18 replied to my last post. I ship a lot of packages and mistakes are occasionally made by employees and shippers.

If a package not showing as scanned on your douchebag boss’s phone reaches the threshold for enough PC to immediately arrest you and put you in shackles, without any further investigation, we are completely fucked.
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Originally Posted By OCW:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
1. The package being returned ten minutes after? Bullshit.
2. Whatever video they have of him "leaving w/package, returning six minutes later"....doesn't prove what package it was.
3. FedEx/UPS/USPS packages being dropped off with the wrong carrier? Happens thousands of times per day. Usually its caught when the carrier scans it in, but if you don't hang around to get a receipt, you dont know you messed up. Which isn't a problem because...
4. FedEx/UPS/USPS will correct the screwup on their own. It may add a day or two but it will be fixed.
5. When such a drop off error occurs, UPS/FedEx/USPS DO NOT RETURN the package to the sender....they deliver according to the address on the label. Which is why the "it just got returned ten minutes later" is 100% bullshit.
6. Mini cop can look forward to his new career as office cuck shipping manager for his boy.


Thanks for adding this. I was going to add much of it if uv18 replied to my last post. I ship a lot of packages and mistakes are occasionally made by employees and shippers.

If a package not showing as scanned on your douchebag boss’s phone reaches the threshold for enough PC to immediately arrest you and put you in shackles, without any further investigation, we are completely fucked.


Agreed. It also seems like no one even considered that it may have been "stolen" by someone at FEDEX or UPS. Jumping straight to accusing the employee makes it look like they had it out for him.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:34:48 PM EDT
[#36]
I heard from the guy. He's terrified. Imagine if your local cops and also a bunch of ex seal team 6 guys wanted to make you go away... It's like an episode of blacklist or something.

No wonder he was thanking them, etc. in the video. He was afraid and just wanted GTFO. He didn't tell me this, but probably going public was the safest thing he could have done.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:40:39 PM EDT
[#38]
I don't have a company that ships products but I've shipped enough crap to know that I'd trust some guy I hired well before I'd trust a shipping company, shipping company scan or missed scan.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:42:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:


Agreed. It also seems like no one even considered that it may have been "stolen" by someone at FEDEX or UPS. Jumping straight to accusing the employee makes it look like they had it out for him.
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Originally Posted By StevieJ309:
Originally Posted By OCW:
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
1. The package being returned ten minutes after? Bullshit.
2. Whatever video they have of him "leaving w/package, returning six minutes later"....doesn't prove what package it was.
3. FedEx/UPS/USPS packages being dropped off with the wrong carrier? Happens thousands of times per day. Usually its caught when the carrier scans it in, but if you don't hang around to get a receipt, you dont know you messed up. Which isn't a problem because...
4. FedEx/UPS/USPS will correct the screwup on their own. It may add a day or two but it will be fixed.
5. When such a drop off error occurs, UPS/FedEx/USPS DO NOT RETURN the package to the sender....they deliver according to the address on the label. Which is why the "it just got returned ten minutes later" is 100% bullshit.
6. Mini cop can look forward to his new career as office cuck shipping manager for his boy.


Thanks for adding this. I was going to add much of it if uv18 replied to my last post. I ship a lot of packages and mistakes are occasionally made by employees and shippers.

If a package not showing as scanned on your douchebag boss’s phone reaches the threshold for enough PC to immediately arrest you and put you in shackles, without any further investigation, we are completely fucked.


Agreed. It also seems like no one even considered that it may have been "stolen" by someone at FEDEX or UPS. Jumping straight to accusing the employee makes it look like they had it out for him.


All of a sudden, out of the blue, the shipping manager decides he’s going to steal something and it’s a BCM lower? Now tell me what really happened.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:44:31 PM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By joker581:

Also a good point.
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Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By StevieJ309:


Agreed. It also seems like no one even considered that it may have been "stolen" by someone at FEDEX or UPS. Jumping straight to accusing the employee makes it look like they had it out for him.

Also a good point.


They also jumped straight to, he may be "trafficking".... .

Another thing they did was mention that employees are allowed to conceal carry, so now you have a trafficker, likely armed inside the building. I'm frankly surprised they didn't bring the swat team in there. Just to be safe. Thankfully no acorns fell during this incident.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:50:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:
I heard from the guy. He's terrified. Imagine if your local cops and also a bunch of ex seal team 6 guys wanted to make you go away... It's like an episode of blacklist or something.

No wonder he was thanking them, etc. in the video. He was afraid and just wanted GTFO. He didn't tell me this, but probably going public was the safest thing he could have done.
View Quote


Maybe they need to focus more on that integrity thing they claim to not give a shit about. Try being humble by realizing they're the ones who fucked up, and do what they can to make it right. That would certainly be a better approach than doubling down on stupidity and blaming their employee for the situation they created and the negative attention its brought their way.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 3:54:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


They also jumped straight to, he may be "trafficking".... .

Another thing they did was mention that employees are allowed to conceal carry, so now you have a trafficker, likely armed inside the building. I'm frankly surprised they didn't bring the swat team in there. Just to be safe. Thankfully no acorns fell during this incident.
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I must have missed the bit about trafficking. That's hilarious over one missing lower, but more so, it's disgusting that they would try putting that out there about the guy. A guy who appears to be in his thirties, is potentially a veteran (based on who they supposedly employ), and obviously has no criminal history if he works for a company within the firearms/training industry and is legally carrying a firearm. Not sure why, but they certainly had it out for this dude.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:01:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 871JZ:


I must have missed the bit about trafficking. That's hilarious, but more so, it's disgusting that they would say that about him. A guy who appears to be in his thirties, is potentially a veteran (based on who they supposedly employ), and obviously has no criminal history if he works for a company within the firearms/training industry and is legally carrying a firearm. Not sure why, but they certainly had it out for this dude.
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


They also jumped straight to, he may be "trafficking".... .

Another thing they did was mention that employees are allowed to conceal carry, so now you have a trafficker, likely armed inside the building. I'm frankly surprised they didn't bring the swat team in there. Just to be safe. Thankfully no acorns fell during this incident.


I must have missed the bit about trafficking. That's hilarious, but more so, it's disgusting that they would say that about him. A guy who appears to be in his thirties, is potentially a veteran (based on who they supposedly employ), and obviously has no criminal history if he works for a company within the firearms/training industry and is legally carrying a firearm. Not sure why, but they certainly had it out for this dude.


The difference b/w commies and the big government statists is that before they throw you out of the helicopter, the statists get together and make sure they're on the same page first w/ their code words. Like "trafficking," but could also be "insurrection." Then they kill you or hurt you and then write up nice matching reports using all the right key words. Sure, they support the 2A... you can be armed.... unless you're a criminal. Then you're armed and dangerous. And they get to decide who is a criminal, of course.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:15:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 871JZ:


@S-1

You need to spend less time defending GBRS and more time paying attention. Watch the BWC footage. Both DJ and Cole were directly involved/responsible for the massively stupid decision to have their shipping manager arrested and charged with at least one felony for a lost package.

ETA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na00ri5z7X0
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Originally Posted By 871JZ:
Originally Posted By S-1:


You know this wasn't handled by the owners, DJ and Cole, right? They have over 30 employees or some shit. Some middle man in the company called LE on the dude.


@S-1

You need to spend less time defending GBRS and more time paying attention. Watch the BWC footage. Both DJ and Cole were directly involved/responsible for the massively stupid decision to have their shipping manager arrested and charged with at least one felony for a lost package.

ETA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na00ri5z7X0


Finally got around to skim through it....

Honestly, VBPD has some explaining to do. They didn't "investigate" anything, or have PC for the arrest, IMO. Sounds like the other gbrs employee jumped the gun on calling LE, pointing fingers and blaming without doing his own due diligence.

What is making me laugh though are the people saying "gbrs had him arrested". GBRS doesn't have the authority to make that decision, it is up to the responding/investigating officer. You know how many times a week a leo hears "he needs to be arrested" by the general public? I put most of the blame for the fiasco on the responding officer(s) not doing their job.

It is a shit sandwich for everyone involved and could have been avoided. With that being said, I think there is more to the story and we have only heard one side. Why was the dude fired 2 days after the incident?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:16:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HK_FTW:


What in the actual fuck is going on in that pic?


Yeah fuck that company and their dumb ass lifestyle.
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Originally Posted By HK_FTW:
Originally Posted By S-1:


Lifestyle gear...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYqTNQbXwAIhMsP.jpg

*Have no use for their mount, but their sling is the best one that I have used.


What in the actual fuck is going on in that pic?


Yeah fuck that company and their dumb ass lifestyle.


Dunno... it's an LVAW that belongs to a CAG dude.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:46:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stretchman:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-SEAL-mad-at-Dino-boy-for-pooping-on-Goobers-group/5-2603067/?page=1 from the rabbit hole.

Also, in before, "Have you ever ordered from gbrs? My lower is taking forever."

View Quote


Yep, the bogus arrest and all associated details will only increase the money coming in from their target market.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:50:16 PM EDT
[#47]
That company needs to be selling blue falcon patches and shirts as part of their lifestyle brand.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 4:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 871JZ] [#48]
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:


The difference b/w commies and the big government statists is that before they throw you out of the helicopter, the statists get together and make sure they're on the same page first w/ their code words. Like "trafficking," but could also be "insurrection." Then they kill you or hurt you and then write up nice matching reports using all the right key words. Sure, they support the 2A... you can be armed.... unless you're a criminal. Then you're armed and dangerous. And they get to decide who is a criminal, of course.
View Quote


Sad, but true.

Originally Posted By S-1:


Finally got around to skim through it....

Honestly, VBPD has some explaining to do. They didn't "investigate" anything, or have PC for the arrest, IMO. Sounds like the other gbrs employee jumped the gun on calling LE, pointing fingers and blaming without doing his own due diligence.

What is making me laugh though are the people saying "gbrs had him arrested". GBRS doesn't have the authority to make that decision, it is up to the responding/investigating officer. You know how many times a week a leo hears "he needs to be arrested" by the general public? I put most of the blame for the fiasco on the responding officer(s) not doing their job.

It is a shit sandwich for everyone involved and could have been avoided. With that being said, I think there is more to the story and we have only heard one side. Why was the dude fired 2 days after the incident?
View Quote


You're right. The business doesn't have the authority to make that decision. Unless, of course, they're buddies with the responding officer, who just so happens to ride their nuts. Then they can make sure things go exactly the way they want them to, and even when that turns out to be a mistake, that same officer will still do whatever he can to throw the employee he arrested in bad faith under the bus, on top of wording his reports in such a way that it's favorable for the business.

The decisions made by the employee and the owners of GBRS were piss-poor, and the same goes for the officers involved, especially the guy in charge. Total ineptitude all the way around. It still seems like a potential setup, IMO. The terrible arrest, the package miraculously reappearing minutes after the arrest, the fact the dude was held in cuffs and shackles for several hours even after that, the package supposedly being opened and then resealed, then hidden in the guys drawer, the response after he was brought back, etc. None of it adds up to any kind of sense.

As for him being fired two days later, it seems that decision was made immediately. When the police brought him back and "unarrested" him, whatever that means, GBRS already had all his shit packed up in a box and wouldn't even let him back in the building. No apology or anything.

There's gotta be way more to this story than what's known here because none of the actions taken by anyone involved make any sense, and certainly don't shine a positive light on either party (the police or the company). Not surprised the dude has received nearly $55k through his GoFundMe thing. People realize this is screwed up.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:13:32 PM EDT
[#49]
I just got off the phone w/ the company's lawyer. I've offered them an interview to explain their side of the story in a follow up video.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:14:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LawyerUp:
I just got off the phone w/ the company's lawyer. I've offered them an interview to explain their side of the story in a follow up video.
View Quote


Interesting. Think they'll take advantage of the opportunity?
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