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Posted: 1/13/2005 9:19:49 AM EDT
I have a friend who has a gun that he might want to sell to me. The gun was his dad's, but his dad moved to the Philippines and left the gun behind. He's talked with his dad and he has no interest in the gun anymore and doesn't care if he sells it. BUT, he doesn't know where any of the paper work is. So, basically, it's just a gun w/no paper work.

I don't know how old the gun is, or when they first bought it. I'm assuming it fairly old... maybe 10 years, maybe less. The gun is in great condition, and wasn't shot much. It's a Smith and Wesson .357 with a 6" barrel.

How does one go about selling this gun in a legal manner?
What happens if he sells it to me and we don't go through a FFL or anything like that? Are we committing a crime?

thanks

Justin
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:21:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 9:22:12 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
Depends on the state. In VA, you could just buy it as long as your friend also lived in VA.

In CA, they will probably give you a life sentence and kill your dog for selling a gun with no paperwork.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:21:36 AM EDT
As long as your of age, not a felon and dont do an interstate sale your Ok. m-dc
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:22:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m-dc:
As long as your of age, not a felon and dont do an interstate sale your Ok. m-dc



Even with PRKs gun laws?

I seriously dont know.
CH
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:25:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 9:27:51 AM EDT by m-dc]
Rpk? Edit Calf. got cha missed that one, unsure I guess a quick call to any gun store should end any debate. Whats it worth? J/k inside joke
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:30:48 AM EDT
I wonder as it seems they have every other half assed anti gun law down there.
CH
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:30:54 AM EDT
PRK = Peoples Republic of Kalifornia

It sucks here.

Ok, so theres not gonna be a problem since it was his dads gun? He can go down there with me and do the exhange? I figure yes because he is a blood relative. And blood relatives can buy guns for each other... why not sell them too. I hope that logic works out.

And dang, this board moves fast! :p
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:35:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justang:
PRK = Peoples Republic of Kalifornia

It sucks here.

Ok, so theres not gonna be a problem since it was his dads gun? He can go down there with me and do the exhange? I figure yes because he is a blood relative. And blood relatives can buy guns for each other... why not sell them too. I hope that logic works out.

And dang, this board moves fast! :p


Just call a FFL you might not even have to do that much.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:40:04 AM EDT
I'm bordering on Democratic these days with my superstitious response to the words "gun", "law" and "California" in the same sentence. I'd second (or third or whatever) checking with a local FFL but, if you want to stick with The Wisdom of ARFCom, you might check in with the CA Hometown forum.

Here in CO, you'd be fine as long as you're of legal age. Of course, if you're in CA now, it's just a matter of time before you move to CO, so....
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:52:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justang:
PRK = Peoples Republic of Kalifornia

It sucks here.

Ok, so theres not gonna be a problem since it was his dads gun? He can go down there with me and do the exhange? I figure yes because he is a blood relative. And blood relatives can buy guns for each other... why not sell them too. I hope that logic works out.

And dang, this board moves fast! :p





----Your friend is the "legal" owner by possession

----If both of you are 21yo and have no disqualifying arrests

----Both are Calif residents and have Calif DL's. The buyer has to have a HGSC or exemption.

You can do a "Private Party Transfer" at any dealer/ffL. Both need to be there to do paper work. The dealer holds gun for 10 days. Dros is $25 and by law the dealer can only charge you $10 to do the transfer.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:55:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
...
----Your friend is the "legal" owner by possession

----If both of you are 21yo and have no disqualifying arrests

----Both are Calif residents and have Calif DL's. The buyer has to have a HGSC or exemption.

You can do a "Private Party Transfer" at any dealer/ffL. Both need to be there to do paper work. The dealer holds gun for 10 days. Dros is $25 and by law the dealer can only charge you $10 to do the transfer.



I believe the DROS fee is now $30. That's what I got charged last Saturday when I bought a handgun from a private party. Dealer added $15 so the total damage was $45.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 9:56:49 AM EDT
god damn quite being a little pussy, give your friend a couple of bucks and take the gun. There was no law that says your pistol must be registered.

as long as its not stolen your cool.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:02:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 10:04:37 AM EDT by California_Kid]

Originally Posted By mike45acp:
god damn quite being a little pussy, give your friend a couple of bucks and take the gun. There was no law that says your pistol must be registered.

as long as its not stolen your cool.



If the gun was originally sold in California before 1968 AND has not been transferred through a dealer as described above or been transferred through an FFL holder (including a C&R collector) in any state since it was originally sold, you can get away with this but it's not legal to do so. You will have to forever lie and say you personally acquired the gun before 1968.

If you are less than 36 years old, fuggeddaboudit.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:05:50 AM EDT
Nope, I'm 25. Just missed that one.

I need to go look at the gun again, then we'll just take it to an FFL. It shouldn't cost more than $50 to transfer it.

Thanks for the help.


Now about getting out of Commiefornia. :(
[whispers]help, they're holding me hostage.[/whispers]
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:22:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Justang:
PRK = Peoples Republic of Kalifornia

It sucks here.

Ok, so theres not gonna be a problem since it was his dads gun? He can go down there with me and do the exhange? I figure yes because he is a blood relative. And blood relatives can buy guns for each other... why not sell them too. I hope that logic works out.

And dang, this board moves fast! :p



WHAT are you worried about the ATF raiding you guys while you are doing the transfer?
A father is allowed to give his son a pistol, no cop would ever care about registration but if it ever came up you could just say my father brought this gun into this state many years ago and gave it to me.

once again cops dont run guns for registration unless they are AW's they are just checking to make sure they aren't stolen.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:23:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:

----Your friend is the "legal" owner by possession

----If both of you are 21yo and have no disqualifying arrests

----Both are Calif residents and have Calif DL's. The buyer has to have a HGSC or exemption.

You can do a "Private Party Transfer" at any dealer/ffL. Both need to be there to do paper work. The dealer holds gun for 10 days. Dros is $25 and by law the dealer can only charge you $10 to do the transfer.



by the way its a big pain in the ass what a great state where you have to pay someone to hold your gun for 10 days and good luck finding a dealer for 10bucks your looking at 25 or 30 in most areas.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:24:19 AM EDT
I want to stay legal. Especially where I live.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 10:33:51 AM EDT
Gee, it's amazing how willing people are to get other people in trouble. If you're not prohibited from owning a handgun, you can buy it from him with little problem.

Do the FFL transfer between you and your friend. Any other method is illegal.

Your friend can receive the gun from his dad but the correct CA DOJ form has to be filed.

Go here to get all the info you need:

CA DOJ FAQ page


Link Posted: 1/13/2005 11:02:49 AM EDT
"There is no firearm registration requirement in California except for assault weapon owners and personal handgun importers. However, you may submit a Firearm Ownership Record to the DOJ for any firearm you own. Having a Firearm Ownership Record on file with the DOJ may help in the return of your firearm if it is lost or stolen. With very few and specific exceptions, all firearm transactions must be conducted through a firearms dealer."

read the page, there is no law that says your gun has to be registered, unless you import it from out of state. How you get it is the key.

Link Posted: 1/13/2005 11:02:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:40:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 12:40:39 PM EDT by California_Kid]

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
...
read the page, there is no law that says your gun has to be registered, unless you import it from out of state. How you get it is the key.



Yes, how you get it AND FROM WHOM is the key.

From the same page:

3. What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?

All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process....


ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#7

The only exception on handgun transfers is gifts to an adult child or spouse, and THAT has to be reported (i.e. registered).

ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#20
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By California_Kid:

Originally Posted By Noname:
...
----Your friend is the "legal" owner by possession

----If both of you are 21yo and have no disqualifying arrests

----Both are Calif residents and have Calif DL's. The buyer has to have a HGSC or exemption.

You can do a "Private Party Transfer" at any dealer/ffL. Both need to be there to do paper work. The dealer holds gun for 10 days. Dros is $25 and by law the dealer can only charge you $10 to do the transfer.



I believe the DROS fee is now $30. That's what I got charged last Saturday when I bought a handgun from a private party. Dealer added $15 so the total damage was $45.




Note the following from DOJ site...


13. How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)




The only other charges a dealer can make (by law) is "storage fee's" after the 10 day wait is up and they have to notify you of these additional charges. The DOJ can and will bust them otherwise.


Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:43:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 12:44:56 PM EDT by California_Kid]
Well I guess I got charged an extra $15 by the dealer, but I got such a good deal on the Dan Wesson revolver I bought from a biker it doesn't make a hoot of difference. It's a drop in a bucket.

Link Posted: 1/13/2005 12:51:05 PM EDT
ummmmmmmmm
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