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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/19/2003 4:26:18 PM EDT
I've got a question in regards to ballistics, and Glocks in particular. I've heard in the past that for some reason Glocks are harder to trace ballistically (the round that is). Someone I know from Miami,FL PD said something about a special "Miami barrel" because the normal barrel doesn't print bullets like other guns do. This sounds like a bunch of crap to me. I tried to find a direct link to Glock to ask them this but couldn't find it. Could someone do the leg work for me? I have limited internet time. The reason I ask is this:
I am in Iraq right now and they (the powers that be) are getting ready to issue a s**t load of Glocks to the Iraqi police. Someone brought up the point that "we'll never be able to trace them because they are Glocks" I don't see how this is possible. I know they already trace the casing right from the factory. What about the bullet? I don't see why it's an issue anyway with the way these people shot their weapons off for no good reason. We just got done issuing a butt load of AK-47 and they didn't seem too worried about those being traced. I think this was just some major trying to impress someone with his pseudo-knowledge of firearms. I don't even think we should be issuing them Glocks to begin with (not because of this imaginary issue) but because they have no weapon safey over here and Glocks are bad for people with bad weapon handling skills. We've had a few AD's by the Iraqi police in "joint patrol" situation. THey routinely carry on "fire" with their finger on the trigger. They are a bunch of bottom feeders! Anyway, any help on this is appreciated. Like I said, sounds like a bunch of crap to me.


Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:29:31 PM EDT
The polygonal " rifling " on the glock barrel is difficuly to trace through traditional ballisitics.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:35:39 PM EDT
As far as I know it's
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:37:13 PM EDT
Total bullshit. I have been told by a police forensic ballistic dude that ALL guns leave lands & groove markings. Based on what I see at the ranges, I have to agree.

Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:50:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2003 5:52:54 PM EDT by warlord]
If it hard to trace I think the BAFT&E would be all over Glock like a cheap suit. I personally don't think so. As an illustration, BAFT&E issued a decree that for black powder pistols, they must have rifling, traditionally before ruling, they were a smooth bore and so it would be hard to trace.

Let me add this is what I heard, may not be true, but I wouldn't put it beyond the BATF&E to put out such a ruling. Double-ck me.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:52:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2003 4:54:35 PM EDT by TNFrank]
And the firing pin mark on the spent primer is also very unique. Also, right now, Dixie Gun Works has some 1836 Paterson copies that have smooth bore bbls. and a bunch of flintlock pistols are smooth bore as well.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 5:39:18 PM EDT
The Desert Eagle also has hexagonal rifling. Instead of cutting grooves in the bullet, The barrel squishes it into a hexagon. You would think each would still have it's own fingerprint, though.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:38:57 PM EDT
so what's the polyagonal rifling? Same like the Desert eagle? My Glock has traditional rifling on it, or so I thought.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:45:40 PM EDT

I have read (though I'm unable to find the source at the moment) that Glock pistols have remarkable uniformity in their barrel manufacturing. This makes bullet identification more difficult, because many guns coming off the production line would produce almost exactly the same rifling marks.

AFAIK this does not hold true for the ejected casing, but it might.

Take it with a grain of salt.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:53:33 PM EDT
My bad. I don't own a glock. Just a Desert Eagle that I just sold. If you recover a bullet from water it is a rounded off hexagon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:28:22 PM EDT
Standard rifling is comprsed of lands and grooves that have square edges. THese edges cut square grooves into the bullet that are very distinct. Glock, and I believe H&K, use a rifling where the lands are hemispherical. THey have no sharp edges. This is supposed to reduce friction and provide a better gas seal. It also reduces the markings on the fired bullet. It doesn't eliminate them in any way. Fornsics uses both the fired bullet and the spent casing if available. Glocks feed, and extract similar to other pistols so those markings will be distinct. If you fire a glock and then fire other handguns and compared the bullet you could see a difference. A trained person can often distinguish the manufacturer of a barrel from the bullet. Because manufactures use different rifling arrangements and size and shape of lands and grooves.

I saw on the discovery chanel over a year ago that some police department was adding a slight score mark to the crown of thier glock barrels because it made them far more easily destinguishable from others. That way they could more easily destinguish which officer had fired where, and if it was one of their officers or some one else. It just made a more distinct marking than the rifling itself.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 9:05:06 PM EDT
If a definitive answer is important to you, you might try contacting Bank Miller, who is the Director of the Sigarms Academy. He is a member of the Association of Firearms and Toolmark Examiners and could probably help you. Be sure and explain who you are and what you are doing.

See: www.sigarmsacademy.com/

If you (or whoever you’re dealing with) are interested in his credentials, see his bio at: www.sigarmsacademy.com/sigarmsacademy/staff.html

You might also try this site: www.afte.org/ They have a public forum.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 10:21:18 PM EDT
Thanks for the fantastic info guys. It was definately helpful. Like I said though, I'm not even sure it makes a difference. Though I think part of it is they don't trust any Iraqi any farther then we can throw one. Trust me, there is good reason. We have detaineed several IZ's in raids that were supposed good guys that help us out. By day..."Mister, Mister Me friend." By night....die American die! I don't trust any of them. This is a f**ked up culture. Can't wait to get home to my wife and kid. 11 months down...5 to go. God bless the U.S.

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 10:50:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:08:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:03:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KBaker:
I have read (though I'm unable to find the source at the moment) that Glock pistols have remarkable uniformity in their barrel manufacturing.

From here?


Lucien C. Haag, Criminalist / Firearms Examiner, Forensic Science Services, Carefree, AZ

It is well known among firearm examiners that bullets fired from any of the various calibers of Glock pistols can seldom be matched back to the firearm from which they were discharged. This appears to be due to the mirror-like finish of the hammer forged polygonal bores in these pistols.

The author gave a presentation on LBT’s "Fire Lapping" compound and procedure at the 1994 AFTE seminar in Indianapolis. This product, designed to polish rough or pitted barrels, is virtually the same as Permatex valve grinding compound. Both contain finely dispersed silicon carbine in a liquid medium. One or two drops of either product placed on the nose of a full metal jacketed bullet and fired in a Glock will produce fine striae the full length of the barrel. Subsequent test fired bullets discharged through treated Glock barrels are easy to match as will be illustrated in this short presentation.

Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:14:33 PM EDT
Here is an admittedly not too great photo showing the difference. (I couldn’t post it yesterday since the photo server was down).

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