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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/28/2006 11:55:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:06:56 PM EDT by Burkey]
First off, I'm not 13th warrior.


Ok, I have a poster presentation due this week. I chose the topic of gun control for my group to work on. I then divided the project into several catagories: "assualt weapons" and crime, CCW and its effects on crime, gun related deaths compared to other causes of death, the effects of gun control in other countires, the so called gunshow "loophole", and a timeline of firearms legislation.

I am considering adding a sectiuon to debunk gun control as being entirely unconstitutional. My teacher, although a moderate liberal, claims to be "pro-2nd amendment", however I believe this only if the 2nd is meant for duck hunting.

The assualt weapons section will debunk some myths that the guns are more deadly, blah blah, and then show that they are useful, enjoyable, and are rarely used in crime.

The CCW will show that more states adopting CCW have low crime rates.

Gun related deaths is not going so well, the group member in charge is aperantly fascinated by the amount of gun related deaths in the US and compared to foreign countries. I urged him to take a look at the overall crime rate, not gun crime, as well as motor vehicle deaths for a good comparison, lets hope that works.

The gun control in other countries should prove that although gun crime is down, crime overall has skyrocketed, mostly due to an open population of recently disarmed victims.

The gunshow loophole section should dispel the myth, we have heard this/ been over it 1000's of times before.

The legislative history for a rough draft includes the 1934 NFA, '68 GCA, '86 FOPA, '94 AWB, my homestate's adoption of CCW, '04 AWB sunset (and the absence of a flood of ak's from ice cream trucks), NOLA and its gun confiscations, and the SF handgun ban.

Any comments?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:57:49 AM EDT
Throw in the true definition of an assault weapon (selectable rate of fire), and that other than appearance, semi-auto AR-15s and AK-47s function like semi-auto conventional hunting rifles.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:01:30 PM EDT
One cannot examine "gun deaths" without looking at South America. Everyone always wants to compare the US to Canada or European countries, like France or Germany or England (who had low gun death numbers even before their gun control laws were enacted). Check out Brazil. They have the highest murder rate in the world, and guess what - no legal guns in the country. Check out the gun laws of the top ten most murderous/dangerous countries in the world. I'll give you ten guesses what they all have in common...

Your point needs to be that gun control laws have no effect on gun deaths. The fact that America has more gun deaths has to do with various and complex sociological factors, not the 2nd Amendment.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:04:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:04:19 PM EDT
Use this informaiton


Gun Facts 4.0
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:05:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 12:06:52 PM EDT by s32]
You can use these sites for some good crime stats.

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystatelist.cfm
Look at the U.S. murder rate. It was 9.5 murders per 100,000 people back in 1991 when only 10 states were right to carry. Today their are 39 right to carry states and the murder rate is 5.5.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb1203.pdf
British Home Office report. On Page 17 they have the results of UN criminal victim's survey, you can see that the US has a low violent crime rate compared to most indutrialized countries. Look at the murder rates too on Page 10. You can point out pro-gun countires like Switzerland and Finland have low murder rates.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm
CDC report basically saying there is no evidence that gun control works.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1786945,00.html
Article about the UN International Criminal Victim's Survey. Scotland is the most violent country in the world.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:05:56 PM EDT
I'm giving a persuasive speech in my last class EVER in college (as an undergrad at least) guess what the topic will be. I hope to bring in my AR as a visual aid (going to do it legit, and clear it with the cops)

check out www.gunfacts.info there's a lot of info debunking a lot of the bogus myths that swirl around about guns, and is all cited, often using studies orignially commissioned by gun control groups in the first place (they disowned the studies when their desired results were not found)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:09:41 PM EDT

Gun related deaths is not going so well, the group member in charge is aperantly fascinated by the amount of gun related deaths in the US and compared to foreign countries. I urged him to take a look at the overall crime rate, not gun crime, as well as motor vehicle deaths for a good comparison, lets hope that works.


The United States has always been more violent that Great Britain, et al. But, Britain has more gun deaths today with strict gun control than it did 30 years ago with relatively lax gun control. Do a time series comparison of several gun control states in Europe and compare the gun crime rate over time as stronger and stronger controls have been passed.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:23:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beleg:
One cannot examine "gun deaths" without looking at South America. Everyone always wants to compare the US to Canada or European countries, like France or Germany or England (who had low gun death numbers even before their gun control laws were enacted). Check out Brazil. They have the highest murder rate in the world, and guess what - no legal guns in the country. Check out the gun laws of the top ten most murderous/dangerous countries in the world. I'll give you ten guesses what they all have in common...

Your point needs to be that gun control laws have no effect on gun deaths. The fact that America has more gun deaths has to do with various and complex sociological factors, not the 2nd Amendment.



Says who? Not the Brazilians on the other side of the room from me.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:28:14 PM EDT
And remember kids there not called "Assault Rifles" there called "Homeland Defense Rifles". You do have a homeland defense rife don't you? That would just be downright un-American to not support homeland defense rifles.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:46:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 1:20:18 PM EDT by Gamma762]
You're submitting to the arguments of the anti-freedom types by trying to argue their points exclusively. Yes, it's ok to spend time refuting their nonsense but make sure you make the crucial points - RKBA and personal defense is a bedrock HUMAN RIGHT, just like freedom of speech or of religion. And that a healthy, armed population is required to avoid tyranny and genocide. That right wasn't given to us by the Constitution (and why I avoid using the "2nd Amendment" mantra), it is a natural right of mankind from the Creator.

Lots of good info on this site, and lots of other links as well.

Another good page from that site


This site is an excellent read as well

This page in particular


For reference, this article is a detailed psychological examination of the "gun control" mindset.

I know that's a lot of info for a presentation due this week.

ETA: minor changes and spelling
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:51:47 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:41:10 PM EDT
In the county in which I work, we have a few illeagal homicides in an average year that involve firearms. Lets say 3.
We also have 60 suicides a year, about 20 involve firearms.

Based upon this, my county has 23 deaths involving firearms in a year. That is what is reported in the crime figures.

this county is in PA
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:46:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CasualObserver:

Originally Posted By Beleg:
One cannot examine "gun deaths" without looking at South America. Everyone always wants to compare the US to Canada or European countries, like France or Germany or England (who had low gun death numbers even before their gun control laws were enacted). Check out Brazil. They have the highest murder rate in the world, and guess what - no legal guns in the country. Check out the gun laws of the top ten most murderous/dangerous countries in the world. I'll give you ten guesses what they all have in common...

Your point needs to be that gun control laws have no effect on gun deaths. The fact that America has more gun deaths has to do with various and complex sociological factors, not the 2nd Amendment.



Says who? Not the Brazilians on the other side of the room from me.



You're right - they can own guns. The proposition to confiscate the few remaining guns was defeated. My error. However, they still have very strong GC laws and one of the highest firearms death rates in the world.

www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/rk0405/

Good article with works cited.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:54:02 PM EDT
99% of the sheeple think our ARs are selectfire.Educate some.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:22:53 PM EDT
Look at countries where gun control has been used to make the citizens defenseless, and easier for govt to kill..

Zimbabwe-Rhodesia is a prime example.

Examine how gun control (registration) made it easier for the Nazis to have the Vichy govt seize privately owned arms, and how those laws were initially put in place with support of the Nazis before WWII. Look at Norway, a man named Quisling. Read all about how he, while supported with Nazi money, caused gun control laws to be passed in Norway, which made the Nazi invasion easier.

Gun Control causes Genocide. Google "Gun Control Genocide".

Remember, governments kill far more people than criminals. Gun Control is not about crime prevention, it is just about control... period.

OK, I gave you enough ideas... go!!!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:14:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
I hope to bring in my AR as a visual aid (going to do it legit, and clear it with the cops))



Do us all a huge favor and leave the bolt at home. That way there is NO WAY there can be a "GLOCK FOH TAY" incident. That's what those dumbass's should have done. Took a non-functional weapon to the school. You can even buy bbls for the glock that won't accept a cartridge but those 'professionals' were too stupid to do that.

rj
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:06:20 PM EDT
*update*

Here is my portion dealing with assualt weapons, I hope to update it with my timeline and CCW facts list. Keep in mind that I am keeping it simple as most of my classmates really have no clue like most americans.

The Myth of “Assault Weapons”

What the anti-gun lobby frequently calls “Assualt Weapons” are really just semi-automatic rifles that are even less powerful than an average hunting rifle, standing in contrast to their depiction as military machine guns. But first, what exactly is semi automatic, or even an assault rifle? An assault rifle is defined by being able to fire fully automatically, meaning that if the trigger is held down, the weapon will continue to fire until the magazine is empty, or the trigger is released. Civilian look-alike guns cannot shoot this fast, although they may look nearly identical, civilian guns can only shoot one round each time the trigger is pressed. To shoot another round, the trigger must be released and then pressed again. It is impossible to wield the same level of firepower as a real military assault rifle with these guns. Yet, for many recreational shooters, these guns are growing in popularity. This is probably due to the fact that these guns are accurate, reliable, and just plain fun to shoot. When used properly, these rifles are great recreational tools as well as excellent personal defense weapons.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:31:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
*update*

Here is my portion dealing with assualt weapons, I hope to update it with my timeline and CCW facts list. Keep in mind that I am keeping it simple as most of my classmates really have no clue like most americans.

What the anti-gun lobby frequently calls “Assualt Weapons” are really just semi-automatic rifles that are even less powerful than an average hunting rifle, standing in contrast to their depiction as military machine guns. But first, what exactly is semi automatic.....Yet, for many recreational shooters, these guns are growing in popularity. This is probably due to the fact that these guns are accurate, reliable, and just plain fun to shoot...................



Trying to do tech descriptions will lose an audience fast since none of them care in the first place and don't have a clue. The argument that they're great for sport falls right into the antis hands. That's how the British got screwed so easily because for years they tried to show that guns were great for "sport". That argument falls apart after a school shooting or similar massacre.

Don't try to find other reasons for ownership besides the important ones (personal protection, final check on .gov and civil breakdown). Read these arguments/talking points by John Ross

Good luck
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:34:12 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:36:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 5:40:32 PM EDT by Burkey]

Originally Posted By Lomshek:

Originally Posted By Burkey:
*update*

Here is my portion dealing with assualt weapons, I hope to update it with my timeline and CCW facts list. Keep in mind that I am keeping it simple as most of my classmates really have no clue like most americans.

What the anti-gun lobby frequently calls “Assualt Weapons” are really just semi-automatic rifles that are even less powerful than an average hunting rifle, standing in contrast to their depiction as military machine guns. But first, what exactly is semi automatic.....Yet, for many recreational shooters, these guns are growing in popularity. This is probably due to the fact that these guns are accurate, reliable, and just plain fun to shoot...................



Trying to do tech descriptions will lose an audience fast since none of them care in the first place and don't have a clue. The argument that they're great for sport falls right into the antis hands. That's how the British got screwed so easily because for years they tried to show that guns were great for "sport". That argument falls apart after a school shooting or similar massacre.

Don't try to find other reasons for ownership besides the important ones (personal protection, final check on .gov and civil breakdown). Read these arguments/talking points by John Ross

Good luck



I would argue that but I think the significance of personal liberty is lost on the audience, not to mention even saying that an armed citizenry could even make the government think twice will cause my entire arguement to fail completely.(You know, "Waco nutjob", "al-quaeda sypathiser") And to be honest most people only remmber the gun use at NOLA as being done by "roving gangs trying to shoot down helicopters".
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