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Posted: 3/29/2006 2:06:57 PM EST
How hard or easy is it for profession thief to break into a gun safe?

I heard that Stack-On safe with key can be opened with a pen or something but what about those heavy duty Winchester, Remington, Liberty kind of safe? My wife's uncle had a 500 pound Remington safe with electronic lock in his house to keep his professional camera equipments in it along with his gun (he only had one revolver) and personal papers. Two weeks ago he went on a vacation for 10 days and when he came back he found his safe had been opened and the safe emptied out. Nobody knows how long it took the thief to open the safe (had 10 days) but it was opened.

Now I'm worried that a thief will be able to open my safe and steal all my porn in it

Is it usual for thief to be able to open those safe given sufficient time?



Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:09:56 PM EST
I just passed up one of those tall bank safes today. They were going to give it to me but the damn thing weighs 7,000 pounds. Nobody is going to get in that one or pack it off.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:11:33 PM EST
Any safe can be opened if given enough time. The Liberty, FT Knox etc safes are good against the average neighborhood criminals. If you spend more money you can get a TL15 or TL30 safe. I believe they are at least 3-5k for those. The TL15 means a professional with the proper tools can open the safe in 15 minutes. TL30 = 30 minutes....

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:12:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By 7:
Any safe can be opened if given enough time. The Liberty, FT Knox etc safes are good against the average neighborhood criminals. If you spend more money you can get a TL15 or TL30 safe. I believe they are at least 3-5k for those. The TL15 means a professional with the proper tools can open the safe in 15 minutes. TL30 = 30 minutes....




How much for TL1440?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:22:15 PM EST
the cheapo safes used to use round keys and yes they can be opened with a bic pen tube

as for a real gun safe, the way they typically get opened is called smack and peel ( in some circles ). basicly what is done is to hit the corner with a sledge hammer till the welds crack enough to get a crow bar in the gap. then using the crow bar to peel the side away from the front or rear. it takes a little time from what i understand. the week point is the weld, when they grind the out side for looks they are grinding off most of the weld. if you want to make one more secure build it in to the room so the sides and back are difficult to get to. another feature would be to remove the fire lining and get a good welder to weld in some 1 inch angle iron in the corners. or go buy a good walmart gun safe, they dont have a fire lining and get that reinforced. at this point they are more secure as your standard name brand gun safe but with no fire lining.

if you want to give them some fire resistance put 2 one gallon water jugs in the top of the safe. the interior of the safe would have to boil off all 2 gallons of water before the temp could get much above 212
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:34:58 PM EST
I have always wondered about safes with external hinge pins. I would think that a safe that only had locking lugs on one side of the door and external hinges could be opened by wailing the external hinges with a sledge hammer and the door would just fall off. Thats why I bought a Liberty over a Browning,,,, Any thoughts on this?
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:32:10 AM EST
I believe the safes that have the external hinges do have the locking bars on either side of the door, quite possibly top and or bottom also.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:44:27 AM EST
Unless it is a Vault then it only buys you time. To bridge the gap of "time" in this case you need a monitored alarm system that notifies the local PD (when away from home).
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:44:42 AM EST
You could always place a charge inside the door that when opened by a thief.... nevermind....
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:46:24 AM EST
Did it look like they hacked the electronic keypad or was it forced open?
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:52:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By apf383:
I believe the safes that have the external hinges do have the locking bars on either side of the door, quite possibly top and or bottom also.



Yep. Removing the hinges does two things for you:


(1) Jack

and

(2) Sh*t


Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:55:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 7:56:00 AM EST by yobo]

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:
Did it look like they hacked the electronic keypad or was it forced open?



I didn't see it but I was told they "took off" the key pad.
I'm not sure what that means.
He also had a home alarm system but it was the kind that didn't have monitoring system... it just make a lot of noise when set off. When the alarm went off thives just cut the wires to the power supply and the emergency battery. Neighbor said he heard the alarm for about 30 seconds before it went off so he thought it was accidently set off by the home owner.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:56:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By yobo:
he only had one revolver



It sucks that he got cleaned out but I would have loved to have seen the look on the thief's face when he opened the safe and only found ONE gun.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:00:18 AM EST
Home alarm system that calls the police type?

Place a sign on the front of the safe that rreads:

WARNING!

This enclosure is protected with a high explosive, frangible, anti personel device. Should unauthorized access occur, serious injury or death may result.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:01:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Unless it is a Vault then it only buys you time. To bridge the gap of "time" in this case you need a monitored alarm system that notifies the local PD (when away from home).



+1

A safe is only one part of a comprehensive security system.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:04:58 AM EST
Friend has his Amsec (a good one, not the cheapest model) beaten on by the people who broke into his house, they didn't get in, but neither could he. Took the locksmith 3hrs to get into it.

As someone mentioned, they are pretty much only for fire protection and to slow down theives... You want a monitored alarm w/ cell back up, also try to put the safe someplace that doesn't make it easy for someone to move or work on (ie: just up against a wall.) I have mine in the most PITA room to get it into and it's in the closet, it took time and a lot of bitching to get it in there... I also replaced the room's foor with a solid core door, tougher strike plate, and better frame, plus added one of those punch code lcoks (like you see in office/industrical buildings.) The point is to really slow people down.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:05:45 AM EST
I'm wondering if they dusted the lock for prints? If you only have to punch in 4 #s to unlock, that's only 16 different variables to try before opening the safe. I'm no expert but the newer keypads for access control have scrambled pads - each pad represents a different # each time the pad is used. While the access code doesn't change, the pads do.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:11:44 AM EST
I would say that 95% of home burglaries are done by punks, junkies, or opportunists. I don't think most professional thiefs would spend the time in a home required to crack or bust open a good safe, unless they had inside info that the occupants would be gone for a period of time. Most good professional thieves are in and out in minutes.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:35:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By 4v50:
I'm wondering if they dusted the lock for prints? If you only have to punch in 4 #s to unlock, that's only 16 different variables to try before opening the safe.



It's 16 if the numbers are binary. (2^4) Not likely.
It's 10000 if the numbers are decimal. (10^4)
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 8:42:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By bnorman:

Originally Posted By 4v50:
I'm wondering if they dusted the lock for prints? If you only have to punch in 4 #s to unlock, that's only 16 different variables to try before opening the safe.



It's 16 if the numbers are binary. (2^4) Not likely.
It's 10000 if the numbers are decimal. (10^4)



1,000,000 for mine. It depends on the combination. 3 numbers from 0-99 (xx-xx-xx) = 100^3=1,000,000
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:07:41 AM EST
NO safe is impervious to cracking. Some just take a bit longer. The idea is to make it as difficult as possible and reasonable WRT cost.

I bought a big Liberty safe and put it in a special vault room we built when we finished out our basement. Heavy steel door, special wall "treatments" and some other stuff. A pro would be in the room and in the safe in a matter of minutes...but it damn well keeps amateurs and kids out. A real pro wouldn't be wasting his/her time on my cheesy collection anyway.

Hopefully, the increased difficulty will deter potential thieves.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:25:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Unless it is a Vault then it only buys you time. To bridge the gap of "time" in this case you need a monitored alarm system that notifies the local PD (when away from home).




Liberty safe.....check
ADT alarm.......check

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 9:41:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
Unless it is a Vault then it only buys you time. To bridge the gap of "time" in this case you need a monitored alarm system that notifies the local PD (when away from home).



+1

A safe is only one part of a comprehensive security system.




Can't stress enough that security of your person/personal effects is NOT single layered.
Read: Have a Plan. Have a Back-Up Plan.
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