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Posted: 2/5/2006 7:42:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 3:00:53 PM EDT by gsd-Rocky]
Ok, just so there is no confusion, I will start off by declaring that this is my brothers account, he is a 11b in the army awaiting deployment.

Now, I have a serious problem. My Libery Safe with a S&G Dail lock will not open. Before I went to the fun show yesterday I opened it up to retrieve some tender with no problems whatsoever. In fact, in the 3 short months that I have had this safe I have never had a problem. When I returned home last night I attempted to gain access again. nope, nada, nothing. At first I thought I was being an idiot, and not precicely turning the dail. Negative. I have tried it probably 50 times now to no avail. Has anyone else with a S&G dail lock had this problem, and how did you eventually resolve it? Oh, I should probably note that this safe was used when I aquired it. It was purchased from a reputable safe dealer that deals in Liberty safes. I will be contacting them tomorrow as they are not open on Sundays. Please ARFCOM safe gurus, let me know that this is a common problem that can be resolved without drastic measures. I appreciate any and all help in theis matter.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:46:16 AM EDT
I would say call a locksmith if you cant get it open.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:48:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 9:13:35 AM EDT by EOD_Guy]
Try changing one of the numbers you are using by one half of a digit. In other words, if the number is 22, try 21.5. Go through each of the numbers this way, one at a time. In my experience, when the discs in the lock slip, it is usually down. If that doesn't work, try moving up one half a digit.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:49:05 AM EDT
how about contacting the manufacturer first. Then a locksmith
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:58:31 AM EDT
Now is the perect time to test just how reliable your safe will be in the event of a break in...

Got a couple screw drivers? How about a tire tool or crow bar? we all have heard how un reliable these Liberty safes are...

Lets see how long it takes you to break in.

Post pic....
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:59:25 AM EDT
Thank you for the replies.

I am hoping that the locksmith is a last resort.

EOD_Guy: Thnak you kindly for the informative post, I will try this method. Are 1/2 digit increments the way to go, more precicely, "between" the number indexes? Thanks

twonami: I contacted Liberty (the manufacturer), they requested that I contact the seller/retailer. They are closed today and I was hoping that someone else had gone through this. Thanks
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:02:01 AM EDT
Best idea yet! What a great opportunity to test that plasma cutter.

"we all have heard how un reliable these Liberty safes are" really?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:12:33 AM EDT
I had a safe with that type of lock. What might of happen is what happened to mine. The internals of the dial have probably come loose. Go throught the combination again, but on the last digit, "giggle" the dial back and forth over the last number ( if the number is 5, for instance, lightly go to 3 then to 9, back to three etc.) You may feel it catch eventually. The old safe I had for 12 years changed last numbers several times before I replaced it. Give that a try! It worked on mine!

Good luck!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:13:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 8:27:07 AM EDT by 1shott]

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
Best idea yet! What a great opportunity to test that plasma cutter.

"we all have heard how un reliable these Liberty safes are" really?





Some people say that, but the thing is, any safe can be broke into.


edit for the spelling nazis.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:17:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1shott:
any safe can be broke inot.



inot?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:17:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
Thank you for the replies.

I am hoping that the locksmith is a last resort.

EOD_Guy: Thnak you kindly for the informative post, I will try this method. Are 1/2 digit increments the way to go, more precicely, "between" the number indexes? Thanks

twonami: I contacted Liberty (the manufacturer), they requested that I contact the seller/retailer. They are closed today and I was hoping that someone else had gone through this. Thanks



Yes, between the index lines. When my S&G lock slipped, it was on the second number.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:19:31 AM EDT
I'll send my 9 year old over. He can break into anything.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By 1shott:
any safe can be broke inot.



inot?


I'm still stuck on "diget" vice digit.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:21:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheGunny:
I had a safe with that type of lock. What might of happen is what happened to mine. The internals of the dial have probably come loose. Go throught the combination again, but on the last digit, "giggle" the dial back and forth over the last number ( if the number is 5, for instance, lightly go to 3 then to 9, back to three etc.) You may feel it catch eventually. The old safe I had for 12 years changed last numbers several times before I replaced it. Give that a try! It worked on mine!

Good luck!



Thank you. I will attempt this method as well. I have being playing around with EOD_Guy's method to no avail.

"Some people say that, but the thing is, any safe can be broke inot." 1shott

I couldnt agree more. I am of the thought that a determined and skilled thief could rob me blind. But i think that the probablility of that type of assault is highly unlikely. I am most concerned with opportunistic burglers who would have neither the time or resources available to crack any well made safe. This does not include "cabinets" which are a total joke and should be called steal me boxes.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:26:07 AM EDT
mine did exactly the same thing,...dont panic!...when you get done with the combo, pound the safe door just above the dial, there is a little brass lever inside the dial housing that can hang up a little . you really gotta hit it like you mean it too, no limpy stuff. after opening it, change the combo just to be sure. it worked for me. forget the locksmith, you'll really be pissed when he shows up and does the exact same manuever and hands you a bill for 200
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:27:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By 1shott:
any safe can be broke inot.



inot?




Fixed it......happy?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:32:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
Best idea yet! What a great opportunity to test that plasma cutter.

"we all have heard how un reliable these Liberty safes are" really?



Liberty Safe thread
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:37:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 8:38:14 AM EDT by Doucheatron3000]
Just buy a new gun and shoot the lock out.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:38:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
This does not include "cabinets" which are a total joke and should be called steal me boxes.



I've got 2 of the "steal me" boxes, once about 20 years a 16 year old kid tried to break into one of them and steal my guns. He had an hour and all the hand tools in my garage and he couldn't break one open. He sure beat the hell out of it though, but the way they're made there's just no way to get a pry bar far enough in to force the door open. He bent the crap out of it, but he couldn't open it. Given time, a torch or power tools, he would have opened it, but the average kid with a pry bar isn't getting into one of them. And if they're lag bolted to a wall he's not stealing the whole thing either.

Good luck getting into your safe. Sounds like it's locksmith time to me.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:46:02 AM EDT
Damn.

Is there a web page that compares gun safes side by side?

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:47:18 AM EDT
tannerite

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:58:15 AM EDT
an aside, I find it easier to open the safe by spinning the dial with my left hand, my first number requires counter clockwise spin, just comes naturally when using the left hand instead of the right, maybe becaue I open door knobs with my right hand and you turn them clockwise to open. I thought I forgot my combination one time, just had the starting clockwise vs counterclockwise thing wrong
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:58:32 AM EDT
Man, that is a nightmare for all gun safe owners. Hope you succeed in getting it open. If those combo locks lose digits, switch to a push button S&G lock. My combo doesn' change on its own.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:59:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 3rdpig:

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
This does not include "cabinets" which are a total joke and should be called steal me boxes.



I've got 2 of the "steal me" boxes, once about 20 years a 16 year old kid tried to break into one of them and steal my guns. He had an hour and all the hand tools in my garage and he couldn't break one open. He sure beat the hell out of it though, but the way they're made there's just no way to get a pry bar far enough in to force the door open. He bent the crap out of it, but he couldn't open it. Given time, a torch or power tools, he would have opened it, but the average kid with a pry bar isn't getting into one of them. And if they're lag bolted to a wall he's not stealing the whole thing either.

Good luck getting into your safe. Sounds like it's locksmith time to me.



Thanks for the reply. Interesting story, it leads me to believe that either this particular 16yo was a noodle arm choirboy, increadibly stupid, or the "cabinet" that you have was increadibly more robust than the one I had experiance with. My father had one for years and then lost the key. The locksmith he contacted quoted him a price to make a new key that was greater than purchasing a new "cabinet". It took me, um, about 60 seconds to open it with a pry bar. The locks simply popped right off. There were four metal plates that secured the door. After that incident I swore that I would only put things in one of those that I wanted to get stolen. YMMV


"mine did exactly the same thing,...dont panic!...when you get done with the combo, pound the safe door just above the dial, there is a little brass lever inside the dial housing that can hang up a little . you really gotta hit it like you mean it too, no limpy stuff. after opening it, change the combo just to be sure. it worked for me. forget the locksmith, you'll really be pissed when he shows up and does the exact same manuever and hands you a bill for 200" Nirvana

Ok, I have tried this as well. I am using a rubber headed hammer to strike the door. I am not getting ape-ish with hit but striking it fairly hard. Harder? I also notice that the dial moves when I strike the door. Should I hold it in place?

EOD_Guy's method seems to be the most plausable way for me to re-access my safe. I will continue on this path. Thanks

Thanks for the link to the Liberty Safe thread from earlier in the month. Interesting to know, not sure if I buy the whole screwdriver in 20 minutes bit. But not really applicable to my current conundrum. unless I choose to get out my scredriver and pop 'er open.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:17:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 7:
Man, that is a nightmare for all gun safe owners. Hope you succeed in getting it open. If those combo locks lose digits, switch to a push button S&G lock. My combo doesn' change on its own.



I plan on replacing the lock when I get the door open. I always thought that a mechanical lock would be more reliable. It now seems that electronic is the way to go.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:52:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 9:53:57 AM EDT by nirvana]
when i contacted the manufacturer of my safe regarding the problem, he advised that i try going through the numbers of the combo ,then going off of each number by one , back and forth one at a time for instance, if the first number is say, 50 then go 51.then proceed as normal, then 52 then 53....then 47 ,48 49 and so on....then do the same with the second number as well,...this is provided that the combo is off by one of your three numbers...if if two of your combo numbers ,...this will be far more difficult to do. it took me a couple of hours unsuccesfully to do this, after calling back, he advised i try the POUND IT method, i tried this too, unsuccesfully. then he came to my house and tried both methods, when he banged the door the first time...it opened, when he dissassembled the lock mechanism i inspected it and we discovered that the trip lever was sticking...it wasnt the combo numbers at all per say, but the catch lever that actually opens the lock, kinda hard to explain unless you see it. but after completing the combo process, and just before getting to that point where the dial would normally go into its opening position, WHACK, then move slowly toward the position some more. whack it as close to the dial as possible...keep trying
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:13:18 AM EDT
Thank you for sharing your experiance. I will have to keep trying. This is inflaming my ulcer like nothing else. Quite frustrating. Thanks again for your advice.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:17:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:23:10 AM EDT
DO NOT BEAT ON THE LOCK, you might engage the lockout pins(spring loaded security pins in the door whick will drop if an attempt to drill or beat the lock off). Make sure before you run through the combo to turn the dial at least 4-5 times in a COUNTER-clockwise motion to zero the tumblers. You mentioned that the lock was loose??? Try holding it still while running the combo. I have also seen the S&G lock slip and throw the combo off by a couple of numbers. If you can't get it open leave it alone. Don't make it worse on the technition who will be opening it in the future.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:25:40 AM EDT
Wait until someone post an article from a newspaper tomorrow, titled

" Man breaks into house and opens gun safe with help from the internet"
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:31:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBang:
Wait until someone post an article from a newspaper tomorrow, titled

" Man breaks into house and opens gun safe with help from the internet"



ummm, yea. That is kind of funny. But not very feasible considering that no one has the combo, however "off" it may be.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:47:07 AM EDT
Dang it 9245 beat me to it
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:53:22 AM EDT
Ok. Hours later and still no progress. A quick question though. After you go through your combo sequence and land on the 3rd number, do you have to back it off to open the safe? For example, say my combo is 11-35-69 (not the actual combo). when I reach 69 I would have to back it off to about 20 to disengage the mechanism. It stops, not allowing me to turn it further when this is done. Is this common to all safes?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:57:26 AM EDT
I guess someone has to ask the obvious. To whom does the safe belong?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:58:17 AM EDT
My S&G lock requires me to go back to 0 after the final number.

Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:58:47 AM EDT
pretty much, but on S&G units, my experiance is that it opens at about zero. that is after tuning it back clockwise
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:02:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I guess someone has to ask the obvious. To whom does the safe belong?




Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:02:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1shott:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I guess someone has to ask the obvious. To whom does the safe belong?







Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:04:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I guess someone has to ask the obvious. To whom does the safe belong?



The safe belongs to me. Am I missing something implicit in your post?

Thanks for the clarification nirvana. Just wanted to make sure that my lock wasnt a lemon when I first got it.

Now for the meat and taters: I will continue to try the posted methods to gain entry, but it looks like I will have to call a locksmith. Will they destroy the safe/or lock to gain access? I will be replacing the lock, advice on what type to use?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:09:03 PM EDT
Once you land on the last number you will need to turn the dial CLOCKWISE until it stops. No they will not damage your safe if you have to use a locksmith. IF you go through the dealer or Liberty themselves. If you call Liberty they will take care of everything for you. Plus they will know if the safe is yours or not.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:09:40 PM EDT
ok..ok, I guess I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I surmise that ARDOC's implication is that I stole the safe, somehow have the combo, but cant seem to get it open. A valid concern I guess.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:09:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I guess someone has to ask the obvious. To whom does the safe belong?



The safe belongs to me. Am I missing something implicit in your post?

Thanks for the clarification nirvana. Just wanted to make sure that my lock wasnt a lemon when I first got it.

Now for the meat and taters: I will continue to try the posted methods to gain entry, but it looks like I will have to call a locksmith. Will they destroy the safe/or lock to gain access? I will be replacing the lock, advice on what type to use?



I think he meant it as a joke, I wouldnt take too much offense
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:11:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
ok..ok, I guess I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I surmise that ARDOC's implication is that I stole the safe, somehow have the combo, but cant seem to get it open. A valid concern I guess.



lighten up francis...
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:12:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zipper:
Once you land on the last number you will need to turn the dial CLOCKWISE until it stops. No they will not damage your safe if you have to use a locksmith. IF you go through the dealer or Liberty themselves. If you call Liberty they will take care of everything for you. Plus they will know if the safe is yours or not.



Well I may be screwed in this regard. Like I said in my first post, I aquired this safe second-hand (used/pre-owned) How would liberty know if I was the rightful owner? Oh, and liberty told me to speak with the retailer.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:13:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 12:15:01 PM EDT by zipper]

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
ok..ok, I guess I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I surmise that ARDOC's implication is that I stole the safe, somehow have the combo, but cant seem to get it open. A valid concern I guess.



This is going to get very interesting. Contact the dealer/person you purchased it from.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:15:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By gsd-Rocky:
ok..ok, I guess I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I surmise that ARDOC's implication is that I stole the safe, somehow have the combo, but cant seem to get it open. A valid concern I guess.



lighten up francis...



sorry guys, no ill will intended. I just missed his intent at first. Granted I am at wits end with this thing. Sorry if it materialized as seemingly taking offense to ARDOC's comment. I did not, and appreciate all comments, even the sarcastic. The levity has definately helped.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:24:15 PM EDT
IBTL opens!

Good luck, sir.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:32:58 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:33:12 PM EDT
Do you have a stethoscope? You might can hear the mechanism click into place as the combo is entered.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:43:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
Do you have a stethoscope? You might can hear the mechanism click into place as the combo is entered.



Nope. I have tried putting my ear to it. You can hear it clicking, but I dont know what the clicks mean. I thought I was on to something last night while trying to listen to the clicks. Nope. There is a slight difference in pressure while approaching the last number in the combo. I had noticed this when I first got the safe. I have seen that in the movies but am skeptical about its validity. But, what the hell do I know.

As an aside, I am usually very apprehensive about purchasing anything used. When I first got into the gun hobby/ebr disease seriously I bought a couple of used guns. Never again. While I enjoyed working on that particular 1911, and the process taught me alot, I ended up spending more for the same thing. More to the point I would not have normally bought a safe used. But, It was from an official Liberty dealer here in town, that has been here for quite awhile, so I figured that the safe would be in good/working condition. It was, in fact not a single problem untill last night when it would inexplicably not open. I guess I will have to chalk this one up to a stupid buy. I tried to save a little, but in the end this ordeal will probably cost me more than if I bought a brand new one instead.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 4:23:55 PM EDT
I feel for you. I have a Browning with a S&G lock. I lived in a very dusty location for a while and the lock started to stick, sooo I sprayed some super lubes into the lock. It's really sticky now. I have to use the put the dial on the correct number and tap the door before going to the next number. Some times it opens easy, some times I have to try several times. DO NOT TRY SPRAYING LUBE INTO THE LOCK!

I swear the lock knows when I am getting a rifle out for a match, because it really makes me work to get the door open.

I was told it would be a lot cheaper to call a lock smith out to clean the lock before it fails to open, but I can always think of something else to spend my $ on today.
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