[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gun Confiscation Task Force (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/7/2008 5:48:54 AM EDT
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New gun-tracking system pays off, advocates say Database helps police separate weapons from disqualified owners By John Simerman, STAFF WRITER Article Created: 03/07/2008 02:39:46 AM PST PINOLE — A heavy afternoon rain blurs the sky as three black sport utility vehicles pull up across from a one-story stucco house on Pinole Valley Road. The man inside just turned 60 and recently was placed under a psychiatric hold as a suicide risk, says one of the five state agents. Records show he owns 15 guns, including two assault weapons. Under state law, he must give them up for five years. He hasn't. "This guy could have a pure disdain for police," Special Agent Supervisor John Marsh says. "It's almost like the boy with the Cracker Jack box. When we get to the door, we never know what surprise is going to be inside." What they find, after he lets them in, are handguns, rifles and shotguns strewn about several rooms, others locked away in a garage gun safe. There are 58 weapons in all, many of them loaded, Marsh says. The man is agitated, but the agents settle him down. An hour later, they shuttle the firearms to their vehicles, barrels up, then drive off. "Pretty typical," Ignatius Chinn, a veteran firearms agent says. Next stop: the home of a Richmond man. "He likes to fight, likes to hit his wife, likes to show off his guns," says one agent as he briefs the others. Such seizures from "armed and prohibited" gun owners are growing more common across the state, officials say, after the launch last year of a new state computer system that links gun ownership records with a database of people who are banned from keeping them. The results of an early sampling were remarkable: Nearly 70,000 people statewide, and more than 15,000 in the Bay Area, either kept their guns in violation of state law, or records of their sale or transfer were never entered properly. With the new Armed and Prohibited Persons System, the number of state investigations has risen nearly fourfold, from about 50 a month to 190, officials say. Its main value has been to identify gun owners just recently barred from keeping their weapons — those most prone to violence, said a firearms researcher who is helping the state agency. "When you're talking about people who've just been served with a restraining order or committed crimes, a person's risk of committing crime No. 2 is highest shortly thereafter," said Dr. Garen Wintemute, an emergency room doctor and head of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis. "These are precisely the kind of people we want to not have guns." Wintemute has helped the agents prioritize which types of barred gun owners they should seek first, since the numbers grow too fast to keep up. State figures show that nearly 800 new people per month are added to the state system. Felony convictions are the top reason, followed by domestic violence restraining orders. The system, created from 2002 legislation, now holds nearly 11,000 names, although the actual number of armed and prohibited people is several times greater, officials say. Federal and state law bans gun ownership for people convicted of a variety of felonies. It also bars drug addicts, those convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors or subject to restraining orders. Those convicted of violent misdemeanors can't own or keep firearms for 10 years. People taken into custody as a danger to themselves or others must give up guns for at least five years. A court process allows gun owners like the Pinole man to appeal. According to a study comparing people who were convicted of violent misdemeanors before and after a gun ban went into effect for them in 1991, those denied the purchases of handguns had a 25 percent to 30 percent lower risk of committing later gun crimes, Wintemute said. "We're seeing solid scientific evidence get translated into public policy," Wintemute said. "This may well be a big part of the solution to a part of the problem." Last December, a six-week statewide sweep netted 541 handguns, rifles and assault weapons. Since last summer, the agents have confiscated nearly 1,800 weapons, including 145 assault weapons, officials say. The sweep last year focused on violent felons. The next big sweep, the agents said, will likely focus on domestic violence cases. Many of the armed and prohibited are belligerent, the agents say. Others are merely ignorant. Among those who have needed educating are some local police departments, agents said. During the summer sweep, suspects often had given up their guns to police, but the agencies failed to log them in the system. Some courts also have lagged in entering data on restraining orders and mental holds, according to state Attorney General Jerry Brown. "We're taking in guns ourselves, but the main idea is to multiply your force by working closely with local government," Brown said. "Citizens have a right to bear arms, but not citizens adjudicated insane, or mentally incompetent, or guilty of a felony. We're aggressively enforcing it." Sam Paredes, executive director of Gun Owners of California, said he hopes the technology puts an end to a nettlesome problem. Too often, he said, people unaware that past convictions barred them from owning guns would buy one and not be stopped, then face state enforcement. Paredes said the group has "no real objection" to the system. "The law has to be obeyed," he said. "If you don't like the law, you work to change it." The 30 agents also stake out guns shows in California and Nevada. Weapons they recover are incinerated. "As soon as we burn'em," said Chinn, "more come in." |
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... Dr. Garen Wintemute, an emergency room doctor and head of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis. "These are precisely the kind of people we want to not have guns." Wintemute has helped the agents prioritize which types of barred gun owners they should seek first, since the numbers grow too fast to keep up. Anyone see a problem here? 
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What I was going to say is completely illegal and would violate CoC, but I think you guys can figure it out. |
Is that a state chapter of the GoA? Because if so, the GOA should be kicking this group's fucking ass right now. |
| Are we just going to stand idly around while this kind of shit happens. Yes, I am a member of the NRA, but they have NOT stopped this. When do we say enough is enough and refuse to allow the government to continually invade our privacy. I am NOT advocating any violent action, but something needs to be done. This is not supposed to happen in America. We are turning into Britain. |
For what? Enforcing the law? It's not a 'confiscation task force'... It's not fucking CAGE from Chicago enforcing a gun ban... They are going after convicts who violate the felon-in-posession law... Not law-abiding citizens still in possession of their civil rights... If it's that hard for convicts to obey the law once they get out, they don't deserve to stay out.... |
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Hey, registration does not lead to confiscation... that is just silly paranoia.. oh, what, you have PARANOIA???? that is a medical condition which makes you someone who can't own guns... Turn them in... Our RECORDS show that you have guns. THIS IS YET ANOTHER REASON I KEEP BITCHING THAT EVERY LAW CHANGE OR ADD IS AGAINST GUNOWNERS AND FREETHINKERS. It is going to get to the point that just BEING married is "too much of a risk of domestic violence" and you will not be able to have guns. Have kids? It will be "too much of a risk of a child getting shot" and you will not be able to have guns. Live on a school bus route? "too much of a risk of a stray bullet hitting a child" Live on a hill? "too much risk of a stray bullet travelling too far" |
So 70-75% of the time, this is totally ineffective. |
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=682174 |
In that case you should be absolutely content with the current gun control laws in place.  Sometimes I wonder whose side you are on. |
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This is just a start of public disarmament. The government begins disarmament on groups of people that are easy targets. The goverment campaigns to tell the public this group is dangerous. Eventually the public will stop objecting to the usurpation of civil and human rights as they become collectivley fearful of the villified group. Then the door is open to pass bad legislation to gather up guns. Once this group is disarmed to some level and the public begins to accept gun comfiscation, the goverment will expand the effort. The logical conclusion, based upon historical observation, is that mission creep will eventually lead to a total public disarmament. I don't like it. Not one bit.  
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Actually Dave, they are going after anyone they have arbitrarily decided can't have firearms. Not just felons, but the guy that had a bout of depression after his wife died and got counseling for it. Or the guy with a boiler plate restraining order from his wife taking off with his best friend in a divorce case. Etc... If you make enough laws, absent any real legitimate authority to do so, you can make anyone a criminal. The difference between you and most of the rest of us, you don't have a problem with any of the above. Damn right and wrong. Damn justice. The hell with anything remotely resembling logic. Just follow the law. |
Seems they were talking about people on "suicide watch," Or with domestic abuse complaints, and restraining orders to me. They are taking guns from people who are having their rights removed without due process by law. You're OKay with that? |
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IGNATIUS CHINN is a giant douche nozzle. He works for CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms. He is quite adamant about making up the law as he goes along. He is a dumbass that should be working Parking Enforcement in some POS town, here in Cali. FWIW, he had a ND and shot his desk with an M4 IN HIS OFFICE AT DOJ! He is known as the "Mahogony Hunter/Killer" in Cali gun circles. Fuck him and Allison M. AND the horse they rode in on. These fucking tards are state employees in cahoots with the Brady Bunch and the VPC. Hell, I believe even AG "Moonbeam" Brown is trying to distance himself from these jackasses. |
I was going to say IBDave_A
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<Nods head> Yep. Douche nozzle. |
 Libtard with an agenda. www.cnn.com/US/9812/31/gun.check/
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Yeah I have a hard time figuring out if I want to get pissed off because they are taking guns from felons and men who beat their wives. The tiny little jury in my head is still out on this one. I know the ARFCOM in me thinks I should be mad about this but.... Someone remind me again why taking guns from illegal/unlawful owners is bad and how this hurts those of us that have managed to not have a felony record or beat the crap out of our wives every weekend? |
Wrong there is no law against having a firearm for depression you have to go through a court for that. The VT shooter is a great example he was severely Effed up was even recognized by the system as being F'd up but there was nothing they could do about it until his issue had been adjudicated. And I didn't see where a boiler plate RO was grounds for this either. If we are going to use examples let's use fact. ETA in reading the second article this winteminute guy or whatever his name is, is clearly a wack job the comments he has made are way out of line like adding a shoplifter to the list. Sorry jury is still out for me not sure I disagree with taking guns from felons they created that situation and they are responsible for their plight. |
Just the accusation of DV sounds like it gives the "Task Force" the right to seize & incinerate your firearms. Are you comfortable with that? The article I posted also wants to extend it to DUI & shoplifting. You comfortable with that? Isn't it really about letting others make arbitrary decisions as to who is and who is not 'suitable' for gun ownership? (I think we all agree on violent felons - everything else starts to get into shades of gray that can be exploited by antis.) |
And Special Agent Supervisor John Marsh could be a cross-dressing transvestite, too. |
Ok so the issue is kinda of confusing I am not sure how this winteminute guy has the right to make these decisions. I have always seen the law as being pretty clear felons no... Adjudicated nut jobs.. no I am not much of a slippery slope type thinker it never seems to get slippery like folks claim. However if this becomes some arbitrary BS as you state (thank you by the way) then I am all for fighting it. ETA: Just to illuminate my thinking on this. I am not sure we as responsible owners should run to the sound of the battle if that battle is protecting felons for example. I am not sure that is a real good idea. If they are going well beyond that fuck em I am in. |
LOL I know huh. What a shit comment to make... SA John Marsh sounds like he needs to cut back on the drama classes. I would hope someone in his command would tell him to knock that shit off but sadly they won't. |
You disgust me. |
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Yea I think we all agree that there are folks out there who have demonstrated by prior actions that they have forfeited their RKBA. That common sense gets taken advantage of by those with a Brady agenda and 'tough guys' like this Chinn character. Funny that he shot his own desk with an M4 - someone needs to email the reporter and have them ask him about that next time... |
Yeah that one sentence is VERY troubling to me. I don't understand frankly how this guy is allowed to be part of this. And did I read this correctly that he is an NRA member? WTF |
Don't give these fucks and their well-armed enforcers any ideas. |
Google up "mopery". Pretty soon, some gun grabbing legislator will make it a disqualifying offense... Sorry... I need to walk away from this thread. It ain't good for my blood pressure... 
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+1. Tnd what about the guys that loose their guns for 5 or ten years. Where are all of the seized guns stored for that length of time? I am sure that they are in a climate controlled facility with proper care and maintenance. 
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WTF?!? Is there a history of people with IE, DUI, or shoplifting shooting someone later? Slippery slope! What about jay walking, moving violations, etc.? |
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"...And we cited the subjects repeated posts on an internet forum in which he seemed overly concerned about the attack of Zombies, which caliber to use and something called SHTF. Therefore, the judge ruled that for his own safety, all weapons must be confiscated..."
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And me too. Guess what? Some people take meds to help them sleep at night. Sometimes the meds they are prescribed are also used to treat depression. So if you are taking prescription medication = Depressed individual. That is all the cops and the conficators/VPC/Brady Bunch wants to hear. PTSD? Turn em in. Got in an argument with someone and the cops are called? Turn em in. Have a neighbor that says you intimidate him? (no proof required) Turn em in. Have a neighbor who says he heard shots fired at your home? (no proof required) Turn em in. Have the cops called after you beat your daughters BF up because he hit her? Turn em in. See a pattern? |
He wont because he is so disallusioned by the government he can no longer distinguish right from wrong. His world revolves around legal/illegal and whatever else the government tells him. |