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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/31/2004 7:19:19 AM EST
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.

Thanks for any ideas,
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:23:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By DOHC:
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.

Thanks for any ideas,



well if you were speeding there is nothing to go to court about.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:27:44 AM EST
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:30:31 AM EST
Are there any points included in the ticket?

If so, you may want to make a court appearance and tell the judge that you're responsible but ask if he will waive the points.

I've done that in the past & still had to pay the fine ($100 or so) but at least didn't have to worry about points screwing with my insurance for the next few years.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:32:45 AM EST
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:39:51 AM EST
Well, at least in MD, if you stand for the ticket (ie. before a judge) you might get PBJ and court costs or you might luck out and get a noshow from the cop. Hopefully you'll get a decent judge and you won't get points. I've had it happen both ways before. Whatever you do don't just pay the money 'cause you'll get both the points and the fine.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:15:36 AM EST
So you can politly ask the Judge to wave the points? That would help.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:20:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.



Misconception. Big time. I actually asked our traffic commisiontioner about this. In my county, officer non-appearances are about 5%. I just love the look on people's faces when I walk into court.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:25:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 8:28:12 AM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.



Do you ralized that traffic cops get trained, certified, and recertified on visual speed estimation? During our last certification one of our traffic cops could visually estimate the speed of a vehicle withen .5 MPH, 100% of the time. Most guys only certify for + or - 2MPH

In our agrency we write ticket based on visula speed estimation. Laser or pacing only serve to confirm the officers initial observation.

I ALWAYS show up in court. Win or Lose it's $200.00 in overtime for me. Additioanly, if i wrote the ticket, its becuase the driver did something to really deserve it, above and beyond a mere technical violation. So there is no way I'm not going to follow up to ensure he is convicted.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:29:11 AM EST
On I-10 south of Tucson?

What, were you going 90-95?

I'm down there on a pretty regular basis-I'll likely be down there this weekend-and I get passed all the time by DPS guys while I'm doing 80 and sometimes even 85. I've been passed by Tucson cops while I was doing 75 in their 65 zone.

They don't even look at me. Maybe you got a ticket because you were looking a gift horse in the mouth. (Sorry if I sound harsh)

Take the other's advice: Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:32:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.



Not this shit again!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:34:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:26:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By DOHC:
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.




I know this isn't what you were looking for, but my SERIOUS advice is that if the ticket is accurate (i.e. you were going that fast) - then PAY THE TICKET !!


If you were man enough to break the law, be man enough to pay the fine. (although if you have a good record, you should definitely investigate options for keeping the points off your record - like traffic school or other things - no harm in asking).
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:58:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 9:59:31 AM EST by dmuldrew]
If he paced you in a police cruiser with a certified correct speedometer you are screwed. If he paced you in any other vehicle ask for documentation that their speedo is more correct than yours. With the mass production of motor vehicles and the number of break downs, recalls, etc every year it is not beyond belief that either speedometer could be wrong. Hell even changing out the tires to another size can make the speedo incorrect (either car!) My brother got a ticket from a cop when he was in college, the officer paced him in his own private car. This was the defense my brother used in court before a judge and the case was dismissed. Ask for a trial date if you think you have a case, then get in touch with the prosecuters office and request all the documentation you can about the vehicle that was used to pace you, as well as the training of the officer. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a judge whose car broke down on the way to work, maybe you'll get bent over and taken like a bitch. Life is a gamble, YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:00:35 AM EST
WHy not try the argument that since he was speeding also, you thought it was OK?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:04:21 AM EST
Just pay your tax like a good peasant.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:27:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."



If I show up, I get overtime. If I don't show up I get fined $100.00. You do the math. If I write a ticket, I'm going to stand by it in court. That's what a ticket is: A court complaint.
Good luck.
SK
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:31:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50).... "eye-balled", jesus.


As part of our RADAR certification I have to be able to visually estimate speed of vehicles within a couple MPH." Eyeballing" as you call it is quite accurate once you do it a while.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:31:30 PM EST
Were you speeding? If so, pay the fine; you don't have a right to put others at risk.
If you were not, then go to court and fight it.
And BTW, the cop wil show up.

If you decide to to pay or fight and lose; and its been 2 years since you last attended traffic school, take/ask for that option. Its a pain in the ass but you don't have your insurance go up and you might even learn something.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:32:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.



Worst advice I have heard in a long time.
The officer will get a subpoena and will show up 999 out of 1000.

If you are guilty my advice would be to admit it and ask the judge politely to reduce the fine.
This just worked for a massage therapist I know.
She got a red light camera ticket. The standard fine is $381.00 and she had it reduced to $200.00

If you set it for a hearing, you will most likely be found guilty and the judge will give you the maximum fine for wasting court time.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:42:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By MR09:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."



If I show up, I get overtime. If I don't show up I get fined $100.00. You do the math. If I write a ticket, I'm going to stand by it in court. That's what a ticket is: A court complaint.
Good luck.
SK




Who needs quotas, when you get paid overtime for writing tickets.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:09:52 PM EST
Don't try to outgun the court.. They take that shit personal

My girlfriend (a cute blonde nurse w/ scrubs and badge) showed up to court for a failure to present docs (she forgot her license and was involved in an accident). Fines in that township were pretty high.. Like $150 or so AFTER you showed up and presented your documents to whoever wanted to see them. She just kept her mouth shut and the prosecutor dropped the whole shebang and assessed $30 court costs. You might not get off that easy, but if you go in there with a modicum of respect and don't try to sleaze your way out of the ticket, you might get off a little easier.

Of course there's the buddy who sleazed his way out of a ticket or two.. Minor paperwork oversights here and there, and he went in like a brazen armchair lawyer. Let me assure you every cop in that town guns for that little black Acura now, and they make _no_ mistakes writing him up.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:12:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.

That is legal in some states believe it or not --- Ca is one.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:14:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By DOHC:
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.

Thanks for any ideas,



Make them issue a warrant for you
go to jail and make them feed you , clothe you - hell get your teeth fixed while your in
that costs them money and will show them --- the bastards.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:17:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:

Originally Posted By MR09:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."



If I show up, I get overtime. If I don't show up I get fined $100.00. You do the math. If I write a ticket, I'm going to stand by it in court. That's what a ticket is: A court complaint.
Good luck.
SK



Who needs quotas, when you get paid overtime for writing tickets.



The OT isn't for writing tickets. It's for appearing in court (whatever the case) outside of your regular working hours or on your day off. We get a minimum 4 hours on our days off, 3 hours on a scheduled work day. and 2 hours for every "stand by". That's per subpeona. But don't let that stop you from contesting a ticket.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:33:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:

Originally Posted By MR09:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."



If I show up, I get overtime. If I don't show up I get fined $100.00. You do the math. If I write a ticket, I'm going to stand by it in court. That's what a ticket is: A court complaint.
Good luck.
SK




Who needs quotas, when you get paid overtime for writing tickets.



I've been writing tickets for 5 years at two departments. I have only had to go to court one time. The lady who went to court stated in open court that she ran the stop sign, but didn't feel she deserved the ticket.

We don't get overtime for writing tickets. Sometimes we get forced into court for writing tickets. And we get fined if we don't show up.

We don't have "quotas", we are allowed to write as many as we want.

SK
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:38:20 PM EST
Well, regardless of some folks' advice, I always go to court for tickets, and I'm 5 for 5 at this point on no-show LEOs. All have been dismissed.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:42:47 PM EST
Look into a defferal, or a mitigation hearing. unless you show up high and covered in blood, the judge will cut you a break on the fine--and often the speed--just for caring enough to show up.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:43:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By MR09:

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:

Originally Posted By MR09:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Go to court. It's a hassle for an LEO to show up.



It's the officers job to show up. If court is on his day off, it's overtime, usually 4 hours worth for 20 minutes of "work."



If I show up, I get overtime. If I don't show up I get fined $100.00. You do the math. If I write a ticket, I'm going to stand by it in court. That's what a ticket is: A court complaint.
Good luck.
SK




Who needs quotas, when you get paid overtime for writing tickets.



I've been writing tickets for 5 years at two departments. I have only had to go to court one time. The lady who went to court stated in open court that she ran the stop sign, but didn't feel she deserved the ticket.

We don't get overtime for writing tickets. Sometimes we get forced into court for writing tickets. And we get fined if we don't show up.

We don't have "quotas", we are allowed to write as many as we want.

SK




Why would you need a quota?


If I could do something at work to get me OT(min. 4 hours for 20 minutes work) I would do it as much as I could.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:55:08 PM EST
Thanks for all your replys, especially the LEO's. I am an honest citizen, so I'll do what I think is right.

Thanks again,
Shannon
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:57:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:59:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 9:03:08 PM EST by Hoppy]

Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.




I don't think this flys any more.

If you know you're quilty either pay the whole fine by mail, go to court expecting to pay the fine and hope the judge cuts ya a little slack or go for traffic school if available.


Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.



I'd be surprised if he doesn't get the "trained observer" speech.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:15:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.



Do you ralized that traffic cops get trained, certified, and recertified on visual speed estimation? During our last certification one of our traffic cops could visually estimate the speed of a vehicle withen .5 MPH, 100% of the time. Most guys only certify for + or - 2MPH

In our agrency we write ticket based on visula speed estimation. Laser or pacing only serve to confirm the officers initial observation.

I ALWAYS show up in court. Win or Lose it's $200.00 in overtime for me. Additioanly, if i wrote the ticket, its becuase the driver did something to really deserve it, above and beyond a mere technical violation. So there is no way I'm not going to follow up to ensure he is convicted.



HALLELUJAH!

Saved me all that typing!

Hunter out...
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:18:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By DOHC:
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.

Thanks for any ideas,



well if you were speeding there is nothing to go to court about.



ding, fries are done!!!!! we have awinner.
pay the f@ckin ticket , and own up to it like a man, rather than trying to weasel out of it like a Kerry relative.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:23:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By FNGSniper:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By DOHC:
The officer paced me to determine my speed. If I go to court do I have any chance of reducing my fine? What questions should I ask him? I got the ticket on I-10 south of Tucson.

Thanks for any ideas,



well if you were speeding there is nothing to go to court about.



ding, fries are done!!!!! we have awinner.
pay the f@ckin ticket , and own up to it like a man, rather than trying to weasel out of it like a Kerry relative.



WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:36:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.



It's called personal responsibility. Look it up if you aren't familiar with the term.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:39:11 PM EST
I dont write that many traffic tickets. In 11 years I have only had to appear in traffic court 6 or 7 times. In each of those instances the defendant was found guilty.

Something that might work is requesting a trial by written declaration. You fill out some papers, the court sends the cop some paperwork to fill out, the judge reads them both and makes his ruling. I hat paperwork, and th trial by written declaration is like 4 pages of paperwork, complete with scene diagrams. I dont get paid extra to do it, and am supposed to find time to fill it our during my normal shift. So if I write you a ticket, and you request a trial by written declaration, you will probubly get off. becuase i hate filling out the damn things.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:44:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.



It's called personal responsibility. Look it up if you aren't familiar with the term.



If you sped and were not caught would you mail the state a check?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:52:21 PM EST
That's a load of crap.
Ask any of the JBT's...errr police officers here on the board if they skip out on court appearances for traffic tickets.


Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:34:31 PM EST
if its allowed in your state I would plead not guilty and request a trial by jury.

It is allowed in Texas.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:23:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.



It's called personal responsibility. Look it up if you aren't familiar with the term.



If you sped and were not caught would you mail the state a check?


Pointless comparison; if you ARE caught, step up to the plate, take responsibility for your actions and pay the fine. And yes, I appear in court.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:41:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.



It's called personal responsibility. Look it up if you aren't familiar with the term.



If you sped and were not caught would you mail the state a check?



It's all about choice. I can choose to obey the speed limit or not. If I choose not to obey the law I accept the consequences of my actions.

The time to worry about fines and insurance rates is before you push that peddle down not when the man gets you fair and square.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:59:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
WTF would you take it in the ass with insurance rates if you didnt have to? I swear, some of the people here like to fuck themselves over.



It's called personal responsibility. Look it up if you aren't familiar with the term.



If you sped and were not caught would you mail the state a check?



It's all about choice. I can choose to obey the speed limit or not. If I choose not to obey the law I accept the consequences of my actions.

The time to worry about fines and insurance rates is before you push that peddle down not when the man gets you fair and square.



Wow. Some of you guys don't get (or don't care to get) the difference between malum prohibitum and malum in se.

Stealing something? Immoral.
Screwing the state out of removing money from you by force? Moral.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:50:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 7:52:44 AM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
That's a load of crap.
Ask any of the JBT's...errr police officers here on the board if they skip out on court appearances for traffic tickets.


Originally Posted By spectr:
schedule it for a trial, 9 times out of ten the officer doesnt show up and you'll be fine.




Not anyone in our department did

we showed up spoke for 20 - 30 min. got 4 hours / time and a half pay went home smiling about how we were going to spend our mad money ................. that is so outdated a concept.


It is easier to beat a murder charge than a traffic ticket.

I lost maybe 5-10 traffic cases in almost thirty years .
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:02:45 AM EST
Does anyone know if AZ has trial by written declaration? Its a valid point for me because I live 200+ miles from the court I'm supposed to appear at.

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:41:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Screwing the state out of removing money from you by force? Moral.



Speeding and intentionally putting other peoples lives at risk is immoral. If you don't believe that, take a ride along with your state police/highway patrol sometime.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 10:23:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Screwing the state out of removing money from you by force? Moral.



Speeding and intentionally putting other peoples lives at risk is immoral. If you don't believe that, take a ride along with your state police/highway patrol sometime.



Big difference between 85mph weaving through traffic and 85mph on an empty stretch of road, but neither the judge nor the cop normally care much about that. 65mph (the limit in this state) can be pretty darn risky too for that matter. Simple fact is sometimes cops write tickets because the ticketee is doing something dangerous or unsafe or unneighborly. Sometimes they write tickets to beef up the town's finances. A lot of people would agree that the latter is dirty and underhanded, but it is what it is.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:08:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tim_McBride:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Screwing the state out of removing money from you by force? Moral.



Speeding and intentionally putting other peoples lives at risk is immoral. If you don't believe that, take a ride along with your state police/highway patrol sometime.




So we can see how they drive?

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:14:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By MindHunter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.



Do you ralized that traffic cops get trained, certified, and recertified on visual speed estimation? During our last certification one of our traffic cops could visually estimate the speed of a vehicle withen .5 MPH, 100% of the time. Most guys only certify for + or - 2MPH

In our agrency we write ticket based on visula speed estimation. Laser or pacing only serve to confirm the officers initial observation.

I ALWAYS show up in court. Win or Lose it's $200.00 in overtime for me. Additioanly, if i wrote the ticket, its becuase the driver did something to really deserve it, above and beyond a mere technical violation. So there is no way I'm not going to follow up to ensure he is convicted.





oh yeah, and since the speeding thing was obviously bullshit, the ticket was for reckless driving. id don't buy the eyeball method, too subjective. just another bullshit tax collecting method.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 3:21:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:

Originally Posted By MindHunter:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
i was with a buddy one time when we were approached by a copper in a parking lot while exiting the vehicle. the copper said that he'd been following us and that he "eye-balled" (no radar/laser) us going 60 in a 45 (no way we were above 50). my bud's definitely taking that one to court. don't let coppers rip you off, go to court. it's exactly what they don't want you to do. "eye-balled", jesus.



Do you ralized that traffic cops get trained, certified, and recertified on visual speed estimation? During our last certification one of our traffic cops could visually estimate the speed of a vehicle withen .5 MPH, 100% of the time. Most guys only certify for + or - 2MPH

In our agrency we write ticket based on visula speed estimation. Laser or pacing only serve to confirm the officers initial observation.

I ALWAYS show up in court. Win or Lose it's $200.00 in overtime for me. Additioanly, if i wrote the ticket, its becuase the driver did something to really deserve it, above and beyond a mere technical violation. So there is no way I'm not going to follow up to ensure he is convicted.





oh yeah, and since the speeding thing was obviously bullshit, the ticket was for reckless driving. id don't buy the eyeball method, too subjective. just another bullshit tax collecting method.



So how do you propose to correct peoples bad driving habits? Maybe we could just ask eh?

I figure it like this, talking about a problem is fine, bring up the problem and at least one good solution. Hey I am all for that. But if all you want to do is bitch about the problem.

STFU!!!!


Hunter out....
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