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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/19/2002 10:44:10 AM EST
Ok heres the deal, I was driving home from work last night about 5:30 It was rush hour so there was fairly heavy traffic, I looked in my rearview mirror and I saw flashing lights about 8 cars back. All of the sudden I see this motorcycle cop dart around cars very dangerously on a double line road and he pulls right behind me. Im thinking "what the hell did I do" I wasnt speeding, I was in heavy traffic and there were cars right in front of me. Anyway I start to pull over in a spot I think is perfectly fine, and he pulls up next to me and motions for me to keep going, after a few miles he finnaly lets me pull over. Now I figured I had a taillight out or somthing, because I most definatly was'nt speeding, the flow of traffic was barely going the speed limit. Plus I have a really nice Radar/Lazer detector that I keep on all the time and it did not go off, he did not hit me with radar. So he comes up to the window, and tells me I was going 61 in a 45. I told him I wasnt but the asshole wouldnt even let me talk. To make a long story short I got a ticket. now its only $66 and 2 points, and I would gladly accept a ticket if I deserved one, but I really wasnt speeding! I was driving a red mitsu 3000GT VR4, so Im sure thats part of the reason. Some questions: Should I take this to court, do you think I can win? Should I bring my lawyer? Should I tell the judge I was using a lazer/radar detector, and I didnt get hit? any advice? And yes my spedometer is fine, and no I really wasnt speeding.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 10:56:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:08:29 AM EST
Are you POSITIVELY telling the whole story? You didn't pull anything a minute before that? He has to have some type of proof. He either has to radar/laser you or pace you. If he says 61 and it's during heavy traffic, he HAD to of radar you! If he didn't he's lying, had a senor moment, or mistaked your car with someone else's. (3000 VR4 doesn't look like anything else to me!)
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:16:49 AM EST
You've been targetted by the revenue trolls, please pull over, don't argue, pay your fine, take it up the ass, have a nice day. No matter what happens you'll be paying somebody, it's just a matter of whom. Do those 2 pts affect your insurance? If so, renting a lawyer might be cheaper than higher insurance premiums.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:20:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By MurderSHO45: Are you POSITIVELY telling the whole story? You didn't pull anything a minute before that? He has to have some type of proof. He either has to radar/laser you or pace you. If he says 61 and it's during heavy traffic, he HAD to of radar you! If he didn't he's lying, had a senor moment, or mistaked your car with someone else's. (3000 VR4 doesn't look like anything else to me!)
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Positively! He couldnt have been pacing me, he was too far back, he could have hit another car with the radar I guess. but my detector would have still gone off. (its saved me from tickets many times, but this time I was going the speed limit) I check my speedo all the time when Im driving. I dont know, it suprised the hell out of me.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:28:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2002 11:29:13 AM EST by SJSAMPLE]
Fight it. You can win, if you make up your mind that you were in the right. Make a quick, factual assessment of the situation and [i]put it on paper[/i]. Review it backwards and forwards, because [i]this is your story[/i]. Memorize it. Get a court date and go in there ready to explain yourself. You have several chances for success: 1. The cop doesn't show. In many cases, this is enough to get you off. 2. The cop shows and the judge likes your story better. That's why you need to be prepared. States are hurting for money right now. Here in Indiana, the cops are patrolling the freeways HEAVILY. I used to drive 20mi to work without seeing a cop. Now, every morning I see at least five traffic stops. Hopefully, the judges there aren't part of the revenue system and will see this for what you claim it to be, a mistake.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:46:01 AM EST
I fight every ticket I get. Make them work as hard as possible to get any money out of you. Of the last 3, 2 were dismissed when the cop didn't show up, and I talked my way out of the third. It is important to look the prosecutor and judge directly in the eye when you say you were not speeding. People who are lieing don't usually do that; ask any cop. If your record is clean, point out that there is "no pattern of misbehavior"; they will check (it will be in front of them) and if you are correct, that will lend you a little credence. Do NOT mention the radar detector; they are often seen as a tool of the habitual speeder. Tell your story about how you know you were not speeding (don't make the mistake of trying to get fancy and say you were not going 61--this may be seen as an admission of guilt) and take your chances. Be pleasant and dress nicely, but don't wear a suit; you don't want to look slick. Make sure to look them in the eye as you do this. Ask to be found not guilty or not responsible or whatever they call it in CO. Good luck!
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 11:54:54 AM EST
I drive the same no matter what vehicle I am in, a little fast and a little(for me) aggressively. I have gotten exactly zero tickets in my trucks or sedans. I got three the first month I had my Corvette. They target specific vehicles so that may have led to the ticket. Most cops have small minds and think "If I can't have it, I am going to make you suffer." I believe most cops were picked on horribly in school as a child. That being said, fight that sucker. Make them work for the money. Give your side of the story and make the cop prove that his radar was certifiesd and current and that his speedometer was the same. You have nothing additional to lose by fighting those extortionist scumbags, so do it. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 12:13:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2002 12:15:26 PM EST by ChrisLe]
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: I drive the same no matter what vehicle I am in, a little fast and a little(for me) aggressively. I have gotten exactly zero tickets in my trucks or sedans. I got three the first month I had my Corvette. They target specific vehicles so that may have led to the ticket. Most cops have small minds and think "If I can't have it, I am going to make you suffer." I believe most cops were picked on horribly in school as a child.
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I don't think they intentionally target fast cars. Here's what an NYPD Highway cop told me once. The typical highway cop will pull off the road, set up his radar gun and set it to alert him when a predetermined speed is reached (lets say 75 mph). He won't always keep his eye on the road. He'll be doing paperwork, reading, snoozing, etc...The radar detector will be on and operating. As soon as a car is clocked at the predetermined speed or above, the radar gun will alert. Mind you, the radar gun will not tell the officer which car is speeding, just that a car was speeding. Its up to the officer to decide which car was speeding. So, the radar unit alerts, the cop looks up from his paperwork, and now has to decide which car on the road was speeding. By virtue of human nature the officer is prone to predispositions. First, he'll lean towards picking those cars in the left hand lane (after all, thats where most speeders are theoretically). Second, he's going to look for the carsthat 'look' like they're going fast (sports cars). Bottom line, if there's a Suburban in the center lane speeding at 75 mph and you're in the left hand lane in a vette doing 55mph just as the cop looks up, who do you think he's going to bag for speeding? It's human nature....not necessarily intentional
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 12:16:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By ChrisLe: It's human nature....not necessarily intentional
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Well that certainly is comforting. I have been pulled over by cops who then ask me how fast I was going. Not to see if I know, but because they don't and want me to incriminate myself. Pretty lame.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 12:19:58 PM EST
Ive delt with my share of polite officers, but this guy was a real asshole!! The ticket is not even a big deal, its just the principle of the thing. If I had deserved the ticket, I would gladly pay it. (well not gladly, but I would pay it never the less.)
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 12:42:56 PM EST
Yea the jails are full of innocent people. Everyone almost is innocent just ask them. That is why he did not care to discuss the ticket with you. Take it to court and present you expert testimony, then he will presemt his expert testimony and then you will loose. He is a trained profesional in judging peoples speed. The court knows that, the court knows that criminals lie. So your opinion of your speed if not going to count for anything. You need a fact. He will have a fact, you will loose without a fact.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 5:12:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By TommyBrown: Yea the jails are full of innocent people. Everyone almost is innocent just ask them. That is why he did not care to discuss the ticket with you. Take it to court and present you expert testimony, then he will presemt his expert testimony and then you will loose. He is a trained profesional in judging peoples speed. The court knows that, the court knows that criminals lie. So your opinion of your speed if not going to count for anything. You need a fact. He will have a fact, you will loose without a fact.
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Wew. what a relief, that makes me feel better, Ill let you know when I win.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 5:50:37 PM EST
How about a little more info off the ticket. The cite will show how he was able to confirm your speed (RADAR/LIDAR/VASCAR). If it says VASCAR, he used a Robic stopwatch or VASCAR unit to clock your speed, and even a V1 is useless. Where did you get clocked? If your in the Denver area, I 25, 70, 225 and 270 are chock full of VASCAR lines layed across the traffic lanes. Santa Fe Blvd has a few VASCAR areas as well. C. Springs has it's share of them too. I'm presenting this as a possible explanation of his justification to stop you. If the cite says visual, he's full of crap, but,,,, Colorado has that law that allows you to plea out for less fine and fewer points. I suspect if you fight and loose, your fine and points will double, so be aware. It's crappy, but 2 points are better than 4 and 66 dollar fine is better that 130. Look into that, and make it one of your deciding factors. One more thing: LIDAR, if targeted at the rear doesn't always set off detectors, even V1's (I know because I have 2 V1's, and I experiment all the time). If it was LIDAR, email me, and I'll give you a few legal ideas on how to reduce the effects of LIDAR, one of which is to get rid of that bright red car that reflects LIDAR like nothing in this world. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 6:28:29 PM EST
My father was a truck drive for 20 plus years. He taught me a few thing that have helped me avoid several tickets. 1) Don't drive it the passing lane. (See the comments above) 2) Slow down near rest areas. 3) Slow down near the insection of major interstates. 4) If you travel a route frequently observe were the police/trooper stop speeders. 5) If you follow a speeding car follow from a distance don't tailgate. I usually let them get about a 1/2 to mile in front of me. 6) Watch traffic ahead. If the cars ahead of you are hitting there brakes at the top of a hill, they may have a good reason.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 6:36:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By AZCOP:I suspect if you fight and loose, your fine and points will double, so be aware.
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that sounds like a reasonable law another straw
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:00:41 PM EST
A $66 ticket and you want to take a lawyer with you to court! The lawyer will cost you more money that the ticket will.
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:04:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By anti-gov-tinfoil-man:
Originally Posted By AZCOP:I suspect if you fight and loose, your fine and points will double, so be aware.
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that sounds like a reasonable law another straw
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I have never heard of that before your points double. You have a right to contest your ticket in a court of law
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:05:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:13:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By MAHABALI:
Originally Posted By TommyBrown: Yea the jails are full of innocent people. Everyone almost is innocent just ask them. That is why he did not care to discuss the ticket with you. Take it to court and present you expert testimony, then he will presemt his expert testimony and then you will loose. He is a trained profesional in judging peoples speed. The court knows that, the court knows that criminals lie. So your opinion of your speed if not going to count for anything. You need a fact. He will have a fact, you will loose without a fact.
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Wew. what a relief, that makes me feel better, Ill let you know when I win.
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As a Limey, living in Mexico, I can offer you no constructive advice. But, maybe the following may encourage you: Some time in the 60's (in the U.K.), a guy was caught in a radar trap and given a ticket. He represented himself in court and asked the cop to list his qualifications and knowledge of radar detection etc. The cop spouted-off about his 2-week course, blah, blah, blah. The guy then told the court that although his license did not show it, he was Sir (Whatever) and in conjunction with Sir (Whatever) he invented radar! He also said that because of a corrugated fence in the area, radar readings would be unreliable. However, if the cop would like to argue the point... Not Guilty Good luck amigo!
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:52:50 PM EST
if you are serious that you didn't do ANYTHING to deserve the ticket... then when you go to court inform the judge (do not let the case be tried by a commisioner, wait for the judge) then ask to be tried by your peers... you want a jury trial. If it's 2 points then it's considered a misdemeanor and you have every right to demand a jury trial. Don't let them get a 2 point ticket on your record.... they suck. [spank]
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 7:55:22 PM EST
I just went to court for a ticket and got it thrown out by the judge before I even tesified. I was shocked,but the day I went 6 outta the 8 people(including me)got the charges dropped,and the other two had there fines and charges reduced.The reason i was shocked is that these were tickets given out by state troopers and not some Barny outta the sheriffs department.Troopers are supposed to be the best. Anyhow,I'm in Washington state so I don't know how much will apply.First off,if you wan't the officer to be there in this state you have to supeona him,he just doesn't "show up".But if you show up with a totally clean record IMO the least that will happen is you will have your charge and fine reduced. Second there are alot of specific things the cop has got to fill out properly (not on just the ticket,but his statement to the court also)and from what I saw this doesn't happen all the time.Mine was thrown out cause on the ticket he stated I was going 60+ in a 40 zone ,but on his statement he didn't give a specific speed or readout from the radar.Judge said insufficiant evidence and threw it out.Another fella had his thrown out casuse the cops statement was not complete also. Two guys had a lawyer and he pointed out that the speed was paced,but that the officer hadn't given any info on whether HIS speedo had been calibrated or was accurate.Thrown out.Another guy that was paced,his cop had paper work that a speedo was calibrated and functioning properly,but the officers evidence of this was not notorized and did not indicate what actual cruiser or the date of testing-thrown out. Seems in this state whether radar or pacing the police have to state and prove (with dates)that they have been to school to operate the equipment,they are experienced and knowledgable in its operation,and the equipment has been tested and certified, by the proper entitiy ,to be in good working order,at a recent date.This,along with their statement of events leaves lots of room for error,so i would definatly go. Don't mention the radar detector. Also another option on the back of my arraingment schedule was a "dimissal with court costs".Seems if you havn't had any moving violations within 7 years you can pay court costs,then go on a probation for one year,if clean throughout ,you will have no violation on your record.Maybe your state offers something similar?
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 9:05:00 PM EST
This is exactly the thing Prepaid Legal is for. My girl has gotten out of two tickets, and cops treat you a lot better when they see the membership card. (in my case my Guard ID works just as well---it just so happens I keep my license under it). All you do is call the lawyers and tell them where and when to show up in court (you don't even have to go, even in a different state) James www.prepaidlegal.com/go/j_andrews
Link Posted: 7/19/2002 9:51:35 PM EST
[url]www.ticketassassin.com/[/url] They have some good tips.
Link Posted: 7/20/2002 5:56:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By OKLA_LAWMAN: I have never heard of that before your points double. You have a right to contest your ticket in a court of law
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Let me explain a bit more: In Colorado (maybe it's only Denver: I don't recall), if you get a non criminal speeding ticket, and fight it in court, and you loose, you will get hit with the maximum fine and points, but if you don't fight it, they will cut you a break on the fine and points. You can contest the cite all you want, but you run the risk of getting hit with maximum penalties. I didn't say I liked it, I was just pointing it out. I'm only the messenger. Jay [img]http://www.commspeed.net/jmurray/images/iroc-cop.gif[/img]
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