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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/11/2001 11:01:35 PM EDT
Don't really know when I would ever need too? It is the G17 that can fire underwater? Does it need something special to do so?
Link Posted: 10/11/2001 11:38:59 PM EDT
Glock has special setup for it I think, but I would most definately not fire one under water! Load roar of gun going off would be real is bad under water without any ear protection!, that is if the water pressure or water density does not cause the gun to go kaboom!
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 1:08:02 AM EDT
I bet the nine under water would be as effective as it is on land.[:D] .45ACP Go big or go home.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 2:51:28 AM EDT
Just talked about this with a couple guys, one guy said he knew someone who did this. Walked into the local lake waist deep, put the gun under water and fired. Not sure of the model. The concussion reportedly at least bruised his nuts bad, may have caused some internal damage as well. he bled for at least a couple days as I understood. Makes sense to me. Look how the fish float up when something goes boom under water.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 2:55:24 AM EDT
Glocks for underwater firing are fitted w/ a fluted firing pin and are in use by Navy Seals and other Special Forces. Believe these are restricted sale items. Mike
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 3:58:37 AM EDT
This stuff is real. The [b]firing pin spring cups[/b] must be replaced, the modified ones have vents to let the water out of the way when the weapon fires. Otherwise the firing pin woiuld move forward too slow to ignite the primer. The concusion is much worse underwater, but the Glock17 will work underwater.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 4:03:00 AM EDT
I think it goes without saying FMJ ammo only, JHP would expand in the barrel and squib...
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 4:12:41 AM EDT
Virtually any handgun that uses cartridge ammo (leaves out muzzleloaders and cap n' ball revolvers) will fire underwater.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 4:28:17 AM EDT
I hear the effective range of a firearm fired underwater is about 5 FEET (due to huge resistance, ie water). does anyone have any ballistic info on that?
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 4:33:25 AM EDT
Okay, this was reported on some few months ago in Handguns magazine... One of their guys has fired the Glock after having subjected it to everything.. Sand, being buried, left under water in the ocean for a few months, and yes, under water. I'll dig up the mag around the house here and post any pertinent points he made.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 8:15:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Glocks for underwater firing are fitted w/ a fluted firing pin and are in use by Navy Seals and other Special Forces. Believe these are restricted sale items. Mike
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Not true. Glock is not issued in the US military and is not use by SF or the SEALs. Main reason is it's striker fired... the requirements state that you must be able to hit the hammer with a second trigger pull in case of misfire. The pin is not a restricted ssale item. -SARguy
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 8:16:12 AM EDT
Ahhhhh... The Famous Underwater Glock Hoax has surfaced again!! Sorry guys, this is a hoax that circulates around the internet with alarming frequency. But it's just that - a hoax.
Originally Posted By rabbit: I bet the nine under water would be as effective as it is on land.[:D] .45ACP Go big or go home.
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Now here's the funny part, rabbit - this hoax actually started out with a .45 Auto!!! Here's the story: Probably 15 or 20 years ago when the now-defunct Randal Firearms company in Sun Valley, CA, introduced the first stainless steel .45 Auto on the market (made completely from 17-4 PH - what a piece of crap!), Guns & Ammo decided for some unknown reason to see if this new rust-resistant pistol would fire underwater. I wish I would've kept that issue, but I remember the article vividly - the gun writer donned his most fashionable XXXL Hawaiian print trunks, and using weights to counteract his copious natural buoyancy, he sat on the bottom of a swimming pool and proceeded to fire the Randal, making sure to purge the barrel of all air first. thud. It did technically discharge, and the bullet actually left the muzzle at a pedestrian pace, only to drop to the bottom less than 3 feet in front of the shooter. Plus, the action didn't even try to cycle, and the slide had to be racked by hand for each shot. The muzzle report was almost non-existant - just a weak thud. Subsequent shots all produced the same results. After I was done with this little "Randal sales blurb disguised as an article" I realized two important points: 1. Pistols [b][i]can[/i][/b] fire underwater, but why would you want to? 2. Gun writers should [b][i]not[/i][/b] be photographed wearing bathing suits!! [shock] For a long time the idea of underwater pistols was as dead as the Randal, until Glock introduced their "submarine spring cups," along with rumors of Navy Seals carrying Glocks so they could shoot enemies, sharks, agents of T.H.R.U.S.H. and KAOS, etc., while scuba diving. While I do have a set of these on my Glock 17, I didn't do it so I could bust a cap in the guy who had the nerve to bring a wine glass into the Jacuzzi using the bubbles as cover. Rather, if you do swim or wade through a stream or river, when you get out they allow the water to drain from around the striker - otherwise you could have a misfire because hydraulic lock-up retards the firing pin. So the answer is no, I have not tried to fire my Glock in the pool. But I *do* have a really nice pair of Hawaiian swim trunks! [:D]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 8:20:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattimeo: Okay, this was reported on some few months ago in Handguns magazine... One of their guys has fired the Glock after having subjected it to everything.. Sand, being buried, left under water in the ocean for a few months, and yes, under water. I'll dig up the mag around the house here and post any pertinent points he made.
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Second that. I read the article also. This is a glock that the author has been torture testing for over a decade I thing and has well over 100,000 rounds through it. He stated that he fired it underwater and the magazine published it. He's a respected gun writer. I can't remember his name but it didn't strike me as a hoax. Sherm
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 8:35:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sherm8404:
Originally Posted By mattimeo: Okay, this was reported on some few months ago in Handguns magazine... One of their guys has fired the Glock after having subjected it to everything.. Sand, being buried, left under water in the ocean for a few months, and yes, under water. I'll dig up the mag around the house here and post any pertinent points he made.
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Second that. I read the article also. This is a glock that the author has been torture testing for over a decade I thing and has well over 100,000 rounds through it. He stated that he fired it underwater and the magazine published it. He's a respected gun writer. I can't remember his name but it didn't strike me as a hoax. Sherm
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I read that article also. If you look closely at the pictures you'll notice that the serial number on the slide (if I remember right) changes.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 8:48:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steel_Rat: Ahhhhh... The Famous Underwater Glock Hoax has surfaced again!! Sorry guys, this is a hoax that circulates around the internet with alarming frequency. But it's just that - a hoax.
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Steel_Rat, are you saying that the Glock being designed to be shot underwater is a hoax? If you are, I have to disagree with you. From [url]http://www.glockfaq.com/generalinfo.htm[/url]
The Glock 17 may be equipped with an optional set of maritime spring cups for use in water environments. Maritime spring cups are not intended for submerged firing, but for surface use by special ops teams who operate in and around water. The maritime spring cups are two small parts within the firing pin assembly and are not included on any Model 17 sold by Glock (civilians can only get them through 3rd parties). They insure that water can pass by the firing pin within the firing pin channel, thus preventing the creation of hydraulic force within the firing pin channel -- which would slow the firing pin down, causing light primer strikes. With the special cups, the action will cycle reliably while submersed, if a little bit slower. NATO specification ammunition (such as Winchester's Ranger RA9124N) with waterproof sealed primers and case mouths is recommended. Although you may install the maritime spring cups on any Glock model, [b]*only* the Glock 17[/b] was designed and intended to use the modified spring cups for aquatic firing -- and only then using 9mm ball ammunition to remain within acceptable pressure limits. The foolhardy who insist on living dangerously must keep several things in mind: The Glock 17 must be fully submersed underwater. There must not be any air left within the pistol as the muzzle is pointed towards the surface of the water after submersion to allow the air in the barrel to escape. Use only full metal jacket, ball-type ammunition because the water within the barrel can spread a hollow point out within the barrel upon firing. This increases the bearing surface of the bullet to the barrel and could catastrophically increase pressures. Even if the barrel doesn't burst, the expanded bullet would get even bigger upon exiting into the water and would slow down very quickly while tumbling. Accuracy would be terrible. The marinized Glock 17 is primarily for use by various Special Warfare units operating in aquatic environments. At least one specialized Scuba diving group regularly uses G17's to dispatch sharks where they dive. The Glock 17 using NATO specification ball ammunition will completely penetrate a minimum of one 1/2" pine board at a distance of ten feet from the muzzle when fired underwater.
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Actual photos of a Glock being shot underwater can be found at [url]http://glock.missouri.edu/glock/glock2.shtml[/url]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:17:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Guzzler: Steel_Rat, are you saying that the Glock being designed to be shot underwater is a hoax? If you are, I have to disagree with you.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. - contrary to the myth, [b]this is not what they were designed to do[/b], and pistols work very poorly underwater with ranges measured in a few feet instead of hundreds of yards. The "submarine spring cups" were made so [b]when you get out of the water[/b] your Glock will function correctly. Now, I didn't say that no one has never done it. They have. The again, I'm sure you've all seen people do stupid things on the internet. [:)] I ran across a picture of a guy with a flashlight stuck up his ass, but I don't recommend you do that either. [:P] (Of course the fact that this Glock fired a bullet almost 11 feet underwater as opposed to only 3 feet with the Randall further demonstrates the superiority of 9mm over .45. [:P] ) If you want to see some [b]real underwater guns[/b], go here - http://[url]http://www.rusarm.ru[/url] and look under "Export Products" and "Special Forces." Still, these specially designed underwater guns aren't really much more than novelties.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 9:26:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steel_Rat: That's exactly what I'm saying. - contrary to the myth, [b]this is not what they were designed to do[/b], and pistols work very poorly underwater with ranges measured in a few feet instead of hundreds of yards. The "submarine spring cups" were made so [b]when you get out of the water[/b] your Glock will function correctly.
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Aaaaaaa.... thank you for your clarification. Now I do agree with you. The Glock [i]can[/i] be fired underwater, poorly. But it was designed to help when you [i]leave[/i] the water. That makes more sense. Although thinking about it, it can be a alternative to a divers bang stick (not a smart alternative, but could be).
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:20:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Steel_Rat: Ahhhhh... The Famous Underwater Glock Hoax has surfaced again!! Sorry guys, this is a hoax that circulates around the internet with alarming frequency. But it's just that - a hoax.
Originally Posted By rabbit: I bet the nine under water would be as effective as it is on land.[:D] .45ACP Go big or go home.
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Now here's the funny part, rabbit - this hoax actually started out with a .45 Auto!!! Here's the story: Probably 15 or 20 years ago when the now-defunct Randal Firearms company in Sun Valley, CA, introduced the first stainless steel .45 Auto on the market (made completely from 17-4 PH - what a piece of crap!), Guns & Ammo decided for some unknown reason to see if this new rust-resistant pistol would fire underwater. I wish I would've kept that issue, but I remember the article vividly - the gun writer donned his most fashionable XXXL Hawaiian print trunks, and using weights to counteract his copious natural buoyancy, he sat on the bottom of a swimming pool and proceeded to fire the Randal, making sure to purge the barrel of all air first. thud. It did technically discharge, and the bullet actually left the muzzle at a pedestrian pace, only to drop to the bottom less than 3 feet in front of the shooter. Plus, the action didn't even try to cycle, and the slide had to be racked by hand for each shot. The muzzle report was almost non-existant - just a weak thud. Subsequent shots all produced the same results. After I was done with this little "Randal sales blurb disguised as an article" I realized two important points: 1. Pistols [b][i]can[/i][/b] fire underwater, but why would you want to? 2. Gun writers should [b][i]not[/i][/b] be photographed wearing bathing suits!! [shock] For a long time the idea of underwater pistols was as dead as the Randal, until Glock introduced their "submarine spring cups," along with rumors of Navy Seals carrying Glocks so they could shoot enemies, sharks, agents of T.H.R.U.S.H. and KAOS, etc., while scuba diving. While I do have a set of these on my Glock 17, I didn't do it so I could bust a cap in the guy who had the nerve to bring a wine glass into the Jacuzzi using the bubbles as cover. Rather, if you do swim or wade through a stream or river, when you get out they allow the water to drain from around the striker - otherwise you could have a misfire because hydraulic lock-up retards the firing pin. So the answer is no, I have not tried to fire my Glock in the pool. But I *do* have a really nice pair of Hawaiian swim trunks! [:D]
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Now I know.. the rest of the story...[:D]
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:31:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2001 11:33:19 AM EDT by sopmodm4]
Glock 17(only the G17 9mm)will fire underwater without the underwater springcups but the underwater springcups make it more reliable.I have shot mine in the pool(at first just my arm and then getting in the pool myself) with no ill effects to weapon or user.I had a telephone book wrapped in duct tape as a back stop and at 10 feet the round that missed took a golf ball diameter and about 3/4" as deep chunk out of my gunite.I was using a Glock 17C model with the ported slide but I assume it would be the same as a regular G17.I know that the other calibers won't hold up as well as the G17 for underwater use and could KABOOM if you tried it but then again the G17 had 7 years of engineering behind it while the other models had a couple months worth before they went into production.I don't know if I'd use anything really hot underwater but USGI ball seemed to work just fine.I think I might have to try some shots out of the pool and onto a target on dry land next to see how that works. BTW:The range is about 10 feet.As I tried it at greater distances it started bouncing off of the phone book.I don't know how lethal it would be but it would beat the hell out of trying to use your own paws or a knife.I am going to do some penetration tests on various objects as well if the weather warms up a bit.If this think will penetrate some wood,fiberglass or sheetmetal it might be useful someday.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:33:23 AM EDT
Chuck Taylor ..was the gun writer in question..former US Army Ranger ..Capt. If I remember correctly ..couple of tours in Viet Nam..Wrote for Soldier of Fortune when it first came out...been a gun mag writer, trainer, etc for many years..generally an honest guy..Maritime spring cups..are the addition needed for firing underwater...Russian Spetznatz troops have allegedly had a working pistol that fired effectively under water ...someone mention a guy wading out waist deep and suffering from internal damage ...kinda hard to believe generally compressable organs would be most likely damaged ear drums...eyeballs...as only gas is compressable...if he was waist deep how did he get his eardrums damaged?...never mind...I dont wanna know :)
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 11:48:41 AM EDT
Guzzler,that was a great link!I guess I'm kinda reinventing the wheel as far as my testing goes but it's fun anyway.That guy says that it will penetrate a 1/2 inch pine board at 11 feet underwater.This is pretty close to what I'm getting out of mine as well. Glocks Rule!!
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 1:35:13 PM EDT
This is no hoax, I have a Glock 17 with the maritime spring cup that I carry when I am scuba diving. I have fired it underwater many times, with no ill effects to myself or to the gun. It cycles just fine underwater, just slower than normal. Effective range is about 10 feet or so, better than a knife in case of shark attacks. What is a hoax is that it doesn't exist and it doesn't work (which it does) or that you'll bruise your nuts or there is a huge roar that'll blow your eardrums or some other such nonsense.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 1:54:29 PM EDT
Doesn't someone make a 12ga anti shark weapon? I don't think the concussion will be a big deal. The energy will dissipate quickly from the high frequency to lower. We are not talking about much powder. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 2:45:21 PM EDT
Well since we're talking about Glocks... I've been contemplating getting a compact 9mm Glock for concealed carry. The reason I choose Glock was because of the "Fire Underwater" option. Do you think the compact 9mm is just as reliable underwater as the fullsize? Key words there, "just as reliable". I'm not asking if it will fire underwater. I'm sure like someone said before, just about any modern handgun will fire underwater. But I'm just curious on the reliability factor.
Link Posted: 10/12/2001 3:57:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Planerench: Doesn't someone make a 12ga anti shark weapon? I don't think the concussion will be a big deal. The energy will dissipate quickly from the high frequency to lower. We are not talking about much powder. Planerench out.
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Yes they do. It is called a "Bang Stick". Basically a 12ga shell (slug if my memory is right) on the end of a stick. When a shark gets to close to you, you jam the shell end of the stick in the shark and it goes BANG. Dead shark. I don't know the actual firing mechanism, pressure as the shell hits the shark forces it onto a firing pin, or a trigger on the other end of the stick. I just know that they are really cool to watch on the Discovery Channel (Man, I spend way to much time in front of the boob tube).
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 12:24:43 PM EDT
The Glock is more useful than a bang stick if one is attacked by a polar bear while scubadiving in the arctic. While struggling with the bear, you won't always be able to make a perfect first shot (which you would have to do with the bang stick), so the ability to make followup shots is important. Plus, the Glock won't go off when the bear shoves it up your ass, unlike the bang stick.
Link Posted: 10/14/2001 12:59:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: The Glock is more useful than a bang stick if one is attacked by a polar bear while scubadiving in the arctic. While struggling with the bear, you won't always be able to make a perfect first shot (which you would have to do with the bang stick), so the ability to make followup shots is important. Plus, the Glock won't go off when the bear shoves it up your ass, unlike the bang stick.
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Now, that's funny!!
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