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Posted: 8/6/2011 8:09:57 AM EDT
http://www.policestore.com/.aspx/pid=41284/Product/AR_15_M16_GLASS_ASSAULT_TOOL__GAT_trade__#

Is anyone here using this??

If so, feedback please.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:09:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
http://www.policestore.com/.aspx/pid=41284/Product/AR_15_M16_GLASS_ASSAULT_TOOL__GAT_trade__#

Is anyone here using this??

If so, feedback please.

Thanks!


This is the first I've seen of it, but at first blush, I don't like it. It attaches to the flash hider so you can 'punch' a window with your rifle.

So, this seems to have two possible applications in the field. Windows on buildings and windows on cars.

Building windows: depending on your ammo, you may or may not feel confident shooting through glass. We've done testing and we have a pretty good idea how our bullets perform in different kinds of glass (we use Federal TRU 55gr Sierry GameKing BTJHP). At least here, it's highly unusual for an officer with an AR to be alone. We have the luxury of having cover close by, and in large numbers if the SHTF. We also train to use two officer AR teams (shooter, spotter) if we have enough officers. I consider the AR a rifle, not a window breaching tool. If I need to break a building window, my ASP is handy and my AR sling allows quick rifle deployment. If someone is close to the window and they are unfriendly, I will likely seek cover. If I breach the window with the rifle, chances are good the person could grab the muzzle, and now my muzzle is 'inside' the house. I don't know how the glass will break, and I don't want to cut myself. If I have time at a window I want to breach, I can do it with the appropriate tool, not the rifle.

Automobile windows: no fucking way. If there is a bad guy in the car and I breach a window, my muzzle can be grabbed. I will almost surely not have cover from that close and have little or no protection. If I need to shoot, I can rapid fire from close range and be on target 100% of the time (I know this, and have practiced rapid fire from 7-10 yards and know I can do it fairly easily), and I know our ammo will do it's job. If there isn't anyone in the car, why the need to use the rifle? If I don't know what's in the car, why would I risk fighting for control of my rifle by shoving it through the glass.

Overall, I think it's not a good ideal. If you're concerned about breaking glass, keep a glass punch handy (on a lanyard, clipped to your belt) that you can easily deploy if needed.

For patrole purposes, I think a KISS rifle is the way to go. We use A2 carbines, and they are more than adequate. Iron sights are good to well over 100 yards, and can be very quick to target at more common engagement distances with practice, which we do. Optics, lights and maybe a rail w/ VFG is good for patrol, but anything else is bordering on too much IMO
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 9:10:41 AM EDT
[#2]
It works.  Just mounts on an A2 flash hider by tightening it down.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 10:16:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.policestore.com/.aspx/pid=41284/Product/AR_15_M16_GLASS_ASSAULT_TOOL__GAT_trade__#

Is anyone here using this??

If so, feedback please.

Thanks!


This is the first I've seen of it, but at first blush, I don't like it. It attaches to the flash hider so you can 'punch' a window with your rifle.

So, this seems to have two possible applications in the field. Windows on buildings and windows on cars.

Building windows: depending on your ammo, you may or may not feel confident shooting through glass. We've done testing and we have a pretty good idea how our bullets perform in different kinds of glass (we use Federal TRU 55gr Sierry GameKing BTJHP). At least here, it's highly unusual for an officer with an AR to be alone. We have the luxury of having cover close by, and in large numbers if the SHTF. We also train to use two officer AR teams (shooter, spotter) if we have enough officers. I consider the AR a rifle, not a window breaching tool. If I need to break a building window, my ASP is handy and my AR sling allows quick rifle deployment. If someone is close to the window and they are unfriendly, I will likely seek cover. If I breach the window with the rifle, chances are good the person could grab the muzzle, and now my muzzle is 'inside' the house. I don't know how the glass will break, and I don't want to cut myself. If I have time at a window I want to breach, I can do it with the appropriate tool, not the rifle.

Automobile windows: no fucking way. If there is a bad guy in the car and I breach a window, my muzzle can be grabbed. I will almost surely not have cover from that close and have little or no protection. If I need to shoot, I can rapid fire from close range and be on target 100% of the time (I know this, and have practiced rapid fire from 7-10 yards and know I can do it fairly easily), and I know our ammo will do it's job. If there isn't anyone in the car, why the need to use the rifle? If I don't know what's in the car, why would I risk fighting for control of my rifle by shoving it through the glass.

Overall, I think it's not a good ideal. If you're concerned about breaking glass, keep a glass punch handy (on a lanyard, clipped to your belt) that you can easily deploy if needed.

For patrole purposes, I think a KISS rifle is the way to go. We use A2 carbines, and they are more than adequate. Iron sights are good to well over 100 yards, and can be very quick to target at more common engagement distances with practice, which we do. Optics, lights and maybe a rail w/ VFG is good for patrol, but anything else is bordering on too much IMO


I agree on the cons of it.
I would like to know from someone who is using it on the other times it might have come in handy when you don't have an extra hand to deploy the ASP or other normal glass breaker.
I am always looking for anything that can make the job easier.

Thanks

Link Posted: 8/6/2011 10:20:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
It works.  Just mounts on an A2 flash hider by tightening it down.


Are you using this now??
I know how it mounts, just wanted to know how you use it in the field.
Yes it breaks glass, but I wonder how it would come in handy for the other things it wasn't intended for.

Link Posted: 8/6/2011 12:10:34 PM EDT
[#5]
There are a few Chicago PD Swat guys that have them on their guns. I took an armorers class with them a few months ago. They said they work great for vehicle assaults.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 12:31:49 PM EDT
[#6]
i'd be worried about getting glass in the muzzle...
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 8:24:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Having a free floating firing pin on an AR I would be concerned about a possible accident.  Could be quite a liability in an accidental shooting.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 8:28:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Violates basic firearms safety rule - never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy.

Bad for the same reason as using a weapon light as general flashlight
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Paul haule at csat invented the tool. Its intended for vehicle assaults. Its the kind of specialty tool where if you do t know how it works or where or how to utilize it, then you shouldnt have one/be performin vehicle assaults...

And even with your "free floating firing pin" you dont smash the fucking thing full balls head first into a window. You put the carbide tip against the glass and lean forward until the window breaks. The flash hider will keep any glass large enough to cause a barrel obstruction or majorly effect accuracy out of the actual barrel/ off the rifling.

My Sgt tested was one of the testers of the early prototype models and let me mess with it. Ive been to swat school and practiced vehicle assaults enough to know the fundamentals pretty well, i have access to one if i wanted it. All that being said, i would not put one on my carbine or feel comfortable deploying it. I used to carry a window break tool in my pocket when i was a cop and KNEW how to use it, but that was more of a SHTF insurance plan than anything else. These tools are more intended for swat teams doing vehicle assaults, which are super high risk anyway.

ETA: think i misspelled paul haules name, never met him personally.
Link Posted: 8/6/2011 8:59:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Violates basic firearms safety rule - never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy.

Bad for the same reason as using a weapon light as general flashlight


I dont actually cover suspects on felony traffic stops with my weapon as a personal rule/preferance but abut every other cop in the world does.
Link Posted: 8/7/2011 4:26:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Paul haule at csat invented the tool. Its intended for vehicle assaults. Its the kind of specialty tool where if you do t know how it works or where or how to utilize it, then you shouldnt have one/be performin vehicle assaults...

And even with your "free floating firing pin" you dont smash the fucking thing full balls head first into a window. You put the carbide tip against the glass and lean forward until the window breaks. The flash hider will keep any glass large enough to cause a barrel obstruction or majorly effect accuracy out of the actual barrel/ off the rifling.

My Sgt tested was one of the testers of the early prototype models and let me mess with it. Ive been to swat school and practiced vehicle assaults enough to know the fundamentals pretty well, i have access to one if i wanted it. All that being said, i would not put one on my carbine or feel comfortable deploying it. I used to carry a window break tool in my pocket when i was a cop and KNEW how to use it, but that was more of a SHTF insurance plan than anything else. These tools are more intended for swat teams doing vehicle assaults, which are super high risk anyway.

ETA: think i misspelled paul haules name, never met him personally.


Good info.....Thanks!!



Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:20:52 PM EDT
[#12]
It's MSG Paul Howe.  If you google CSAT or Panteao productions he has a lot of good training info and equipment reviews. Former Delta and saw action at Mogidishu during the operation depicted in "Blackhawk Down".
Link Posted: 8/11/2011 5:59:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
There are a few Chicago PD Swat guys that have them on their guns. I took an armorers class with them a few months ago. They said they work great for vehicle assaults.



We ordered 25 of them last year and we all have them on our rifles.  They are actually a brilliant idea.  On auto glass you tap it and its gone.  It's not like you are winding up and punching through the glass, your muzzle wont even be close to getting grabbed.  Works great on most residential glass as well but does require a little extra punch.  Laminated glass is the only thing we found that it wont work on.  But hell neither will our explosives.  Honestly unless you have used it you would think its a gimmick but its a great tool to have and does not effect your weapon in any way.

Link Posted: 8/13/2011 5:48:45 PM EDT
[#14]
i have one, and im in agreement about the merits of it- but it does tear up the inside of a rifle case.
Link Posted: 8/14/2011 11:17:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
i have one, and im in agreement about the merits of it- but it does tear up the inside of a rifle case.


I just put a platic cup type cover over it.  cheap and efficient

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