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Posted: 12/17/2009 5:39:10 AM EDT
Things are only going to continue getting worse.  You cannot believe the news reports that things are getting better.  The best way to pad yourself and your family is to get out of debt.  Put everything on hold until you are out of debt.  Even if you feel like everything is just fine and your job is secure that can change instantly.  Get out of debt!



I'm working to get out of debt myself.  Christmas will be minimal.  My wife and I are getting the title to one of our vehicles as a present.



Oh yeah, and while you're working to get out of debt put some extra food in the cupborad.  Hit the numorous coupon sites on the internet and put them to work.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 5:45:45 AM EDT
One of the greatest posts in AR15.com history!!
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 5:47:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 5:48:08 AM EDT by sHockz]
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Things are only going to continue getting worse.  You cannot believe the news reports that things are getting better.  The best way to pad yourself and your family is to get out of debt.  Put everything on hold until you are out of debt.  Even if you feel like everything is just fine and your job is secure that can change instantly.  Get out of debt!

I'm working to get out of debt myself.  Christmas will be minimal.  My wife and I are getting the title to one of our vehicles as a present.

Oh yeah, and while you're working to get out of debt put some extra food in the cupborad.  Hit the numorous coupon sites on the internet and put them to work.


3 grand left of my $25k debt in 1.5 years and i still was about to buy an AR
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 5:59:06 AM EDT
$25k debt here all in student loans.  .gov told me that i will pay a 24% penalty on paying my student loans off early.  
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:02:35 AM EDT
If you happen to be making more money in interest on money in your investments than you are spending in interest on borrowed money, you should keep the "debt."  If not... pay it off.  Personally, until recently, it made sense for my money to be doing work for me.  Unfortunately, those good times have come to an end, I think.  

There are also different kinds of debt.  If you were to buy land using a loan in today's market, land that could work for you (grow trees on it or something with similarly minimal  maintenance), you would probably see a return on your investment.  Having a loan on a car right now (unless that car is generating income for you by being used for a business), that is probably a bad idea.  

Long story short:  If you can make money with the borrowed money (over and above the interest you pay for borrowing the money), do it.  If you can't, don't.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:04:21 AM EDT
Everything's paid for except the house.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:05:33 AM EDT
I am agree with you 100%. Having suffered during the recessions of the 1970's and the 1990's, I have always operated on the principle of "7 fat years, 7 lean years," I learned by reading the story of Joseph in the Bible. During the last 7 years, I paid off my 15 year mortgage in less than 5 years, paid off two cars notes, paid off most of my credit cards. The era of 2002-2007 was too good to last, and I feared an economic storm was coming.

It came.  However, I don't see American society doing too much to punish the deadbeats and gluttons.  

I view people who buy "too much house" on wacky loan terms and then can't pay their mortgage as a deadbeat who should pay for their greed. Society is coddling these people and turning them into a victim.  I didn't buy big screen TVs, fancy new furniture, a big car, and take great vacations - instead I paid off my mortgage. My neighbor did, is now in a financial bind, and is getting "bailed out" but he "Obama money."

Sure, cars get reposesed, credit cards get invalidated, and eventually, the bank will send the sheriff to evict a former homeowner.

However, all this "bailing out" and gov't spending will lead to inflation.  I would be happy to pay off a debt with the inflated Monopoly money of 2012 versus the much more valuable dollars of 2005.

If inflation will turn our Dollars into 1920's Deutschmarks in a few years, isn't it time to borrow 2010 Dollars and repay the debt with 2015 dollars?

By the way, I have rented out the first house. I can always raise rent to keep up with inflation. I have taken a big loan to buy a nicer house (and used the financial panic of last year - I.E. Ob@ma telling us we were on the brink of a Depression - to get almost 20% off the price). Borrowing at 4.5%, barely keeps upwith the present level of inflation.  I look forward to paying them with worthless paper 2-10 years from now.  

The banks can't raise the interest rates on mortgages.  If the banks tried to do that, there would be a homeowner's revolt!
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:05:43 AM EDT
Anarchist.

What are you trying to do, ruin the economy?  He needs to spend money he doesn't have.  For the good of the nation.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:06:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 6:08:09 AM EDT by JHMC79]
While you offer very sound and solid advice whether times be good or bad, I have to ask the question...

If we are on the brink of the next great depression as many ARFCOM economists have projected, some of them even claiming that it's going to be so bad that we will be shooting each other for food, why then wouldn't one want to load up every credit card and other line of credit they had on food, gas, and other essential goods now before the collapse of society?

Let's face it, with most people today not having any morale compunction about not paying what they owe, surely they wouldn't be concerned about their credit score in a period when they where fighting for their meals?

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:07:24 AM EDT
I'll be debt free in about 6 months and man I can't wait.  I plan on not buying another vehicle with a loan.  We are just going to live a little tighter and put a car payment back on our own.  That way when we actually NEED another vehicle, we can go hand someone cash.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:07:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:
$25k debt here all in student loans.  .gov told me that i will pay a 24% penalty on paying my student loans off early.  



A 24% penalty for paying off early?  WTF?!?!?  

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:08:12 AM EDT
I've been doing the "Dave Ramsey" plan for awhile now.  I'm hoping to have all credit cards paid off in the next couple months, along with both my cars.  Then it's just my student loans and mortgage.  I'm tired of being a slave to the lender.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:08:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By macman37:
Everything's paid for except the house.


+1

Oh, and I bought a new living room and bedroom suite for 0% interest for 7 years a few years back. It's only about $85/month, but as long as it's free money, I'm gonna take the whole 7 years to pay it off.



Other than that, nothing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:11:02 AM EDT
All I owe on is my car and my house. Zero other debt.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:13:45 AM EDT
So I shouldn't get every credit card I can and spend my way to prosperity like the .gov overlords are? I could put a bunch of food, water, medical supplies, ammo and guns away by doing so.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:14:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 6:18:04 AM EDT by stockshift]
Get INTO debt!

If you believe Obama's policies (which are akin to spending like a teenager with an AMEX Black Card) are going to devalue the dollar, why wouldn't you get into FIXED interest debt?

"C'mon, say yes! Be original, everyone else says no!"  (let's see who gets this quote)
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:14:57 AM EDT
Working on it, been paying off my mortgage with a vengeance, have about 3 years left to go!
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:17:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Anarchist.

What are you trying to do, ruin the economy?  He needs to spend money he doesn't have.  For the good of the nation.


Buy not buying things for a while, we won't wreck the economy. We can wreck Ob@ma's presidency, put millions of Chinese out of work, put the squeeze on petro-dictators like Hugo Chavez and atomic mullahs in Iran, and keep the Gulf States away from this Global Warming lunacy.

The last light Xmas shopping season got everyone's attention.  A cultural movement I call "the New Frugality" could give us a new Congress in 2010 and a new President in 2012.

Remember when Reagan pointed out to the double digit unemployment rates, the double digit inflation rates, and the double digit interest rates and asked the American public if they were better off than they wer 4 years ago (this was in 1980)?

Unemployment is now double, almost TRIPLE what it was during the Bush years.  Most Americans were not touched by the war.  ("An Army at War. A Nation at the Mall." tm) So in 2012, we  need to ask, "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

I can live with 5% unemployment.  At 5% unemployment the semi-retarded mouth breathers still get jobs at fast food places and it takes me 20 minutes to get my order prepared at an empty combination Taco Bell/KFC. Couldn't pay attention in the government controlled public school? Couldn't read at the 5th grade level required to get a high school diploma?  There are still jobs for you in a 5% unemployment America.  

However, I have to work real hard to keep up with 5-10% inflation.  Or worse....
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:17:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 6:21:52 AM EDT by gunham]
I have been out of debt for years.  I just paid my property taxes.  But, I am sad to say that I do not see the Constitution as an impediment to Obama in taking property.  Obama is an Idiot.

Originally Posted By JHMC79:
While you offer very sound and solid advice whether times be good or bad, I have to ask the question...

If we are on the brink of the next great depression as many ARFCOM economists have projected, some of them even claiming that it's going to be so bad that we will be shooting each other for food, why then wouldn't one want to load up every credit card and other line of credit they had on food, gas, and other essential goods now before the collapse of society?

Let's face it, with most people today not having any morale compunction about not paying what they owe, surely they wouldn't be concerned about their credit score in a period when they where fighting for their meals?


I have given that much consideration as that is exactly what Obama is doing.  But without being able to actually see the future, I cannot determine if that is the correct course or not.  But again, Obama is an Idiot.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:19:52 AM EDT
Wait a minute...if it's all going to hell in a handbasket, wouldn't I want to rack up as much debt as possible?  I mean hyper-inflation has to be right around the corner, right?  

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:19:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:
So I shouldn't get every credit card I can and spend my way to prosperity like the .gov overlords are? I could put a bunch of food, water, medical supplies, ammo and guns away by doing so.


indeed.

why would my credit cards give me that huge damned limit if they didn't want me to use it

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:24:20 AM EDT
if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, I think you'll value your cash-in-hand over being debt free.



I mean, if you REALLY think SHTF is imminent, your best bet would be buying gold (or *whatever* of tangible barter value) on your credit card and home equity line.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:24:29 AM EDT




Originally Posted By TexRdnec:



Originally Posted By sc_beerbarge:

So I shouldn't get every credit card I can and spend my way to prosperity like the .gov overlords are? I could put a bunch of food, water, medical supplies, ammo and guns away by doing so.




indeed.



why would my credit cards give me that huge damned limit if they didn't want me to use it






exactly. Besides the credit card companies are next in line for some TARP money. So I rack up a shit ton of debt, default, profit and they get bailed out with my tax $$$'s. Seems fair.


Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:25:38 AM EDT




Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, I think you'll value your cash-in-hand over being debt free.



I mean, if you REALLY think SHTF is imminent, your best bet would be buying gold (or *whatever* of tangible barter value) on your credit card and home equity line.




Bricks of .22, cases of common caliber pistol and rifle ammo, hi-points, spam and silver.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:27:09 AM EDT
I lost my jobin November, and it might be one of the best things to happen to us. Since I had a 401K (with company match), I was able to roll it over into an IRA with Edward Jones. Because that made my money liquid, I will be able to take some of that, and pay off all of my credit cars and my wife's. Since I still have 30 years to work, my Edward Jones advisor said that this was the best time to do it. After January 1, I will only have a mortgage and car payment, which I will work to eliminate ASAP.



Mike F
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:31:04 AM EDT
Dave Ramsey
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:31:33 AM EDT
I've made a resolution to not make any more gun purchases until my 3k in CC debt(only debt) is paid off luckily that should only take 3 months tops then its house saving time
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:34:13 AM EDT




Originally Posted By Guarocuya:



Originally Posted By jmb_nova:

$25k debt here all in student loans. .gov told me that i will pay a 24% penalty on paying my student loans off early.






A 24% penalty for paying off early? WTF?!?!?







That was my reaction too...
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:35:24 AM EDT
Masters degree plus my undergrad loans...  almost 40K in debt.  Ugh... and not finding a decent job in this economy = double whammy.

Any millionaires on here want to give me a job?!  I can work hard I tell ya!  lol.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:37:05 AM EDT
6k in debt, and plan to be paid off in 8 months.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:40:51 AM EDT
No, if the economy is getting ready to crash, you want to rack up your debt and hold onto assets and cash.

Your paid off canceled CC is not worth the money you used to pay it off.

I guess you could use it as an ice scraper...
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:46:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By schapman43:
Things are only going to continue getting worse.   The best way to pad yourself and your family is to get out of debt.


That's very good advice for most families. However........

That depends on whether we enter a period of inflation or not. If, the US enters a period of moderate inflation, a well planned and moderate debt load may be a smart move.

For instance, a fixed rate 30 year mortgage at a low rate will quickly become a TINY expense if we see hyperinflation. The same applies to simple interest auto loans.

It does not apply to revolving credit, with rates subject to change.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:51:08 AM EDT
I'm getting out of my debt to society!  3 more ladies helped across the street and I am DONE.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:53:04 AM EDT
Nonsense.  You need to spend more to avoid bankruptcy.



-Joe Biden
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:54:21 AM EDT
Starve the Beast

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 6:58:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:17:10 AM EDT
What is this DEBT you speak of

In seriousness, the warning is sound but little too late.  Should have accomplish all that when the time was good.  I became completely debt free few years back.
Sitting on 2 year worth of salary in cash right now.  Just spent $20k on RV, Steiner 8x42 binocs, etc.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:21:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stockshift:
Get INTO debt!

If you believe Obama's policies (which are akin to spending like a teenager with an AMEX Black Card) are going to devalue the dollar, why wouldn't you get into FIXED interest debt?

"C'mon, say yes! Be original, everyone else says no!"  (let's see who gets this quote)


Lethal Weapon 2.

Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:24:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, I think you'll value your cash-in-hand over being debt free.

I mean, if you REALLY think SHTF is imminent, your best bet would be buying gold (or *whatever* of tangible barter value) on your credit card and home equity line.

Exactly.  If I thought a real serious SHTF or TEOTWAWKI was imminent, I'd max out ALL of my credit cards buying food, water, a new generator, ammunition, radios, batteries, water purification gear, fuel, medicine, chainsaws, tools, seeds, silver, cash, etc. etc. etc.

If everything goes to hell, who is going to collect on "debt" that is nothing more than an electronic entry in some bank's computer?

Of course, the man with no morals isn't bothered by doing such things.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:24:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JHMC79:
While you offer very sound and solid advice whether times be good or bad, I have to ask the question...

If we are on the brink of the next great depression as many ARFCOM economists have projected, some of them even claiming that it's going to be so bad that we will be shooting each other for food, why then wouldn't one want to load up every credit card and other line of credit they had on food, gas, and other essential goods now before the collapse of society?

Let's face it, with most people today not having any morale compunction about not paying what they owe, surely they wouldn't be concerned about their credit score in a period when they where fighting for their meals?



well, if one want's to be a shit bag and part of the problem and not a good American with values then go right ahead.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:24:30 AM EDT
The only debt I've had is medical bills... and I'm happy to say it's all gone now...
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:32:37 AM EDT
If the "ECONOMY CRASHES" will it really matter, and who will be collecting?  I am debt free except for the house, which I am throwing everything at, but property tax alone would make me lose the house if there was no money.  That is what happened in the 30's.  The old timers tell me that land was repossesed by the .gov over unpaid property tax then sold.  It was so cheap that the crops that the previous owner had planted could be harvested and it paid for the land.


I just had an Epiphany.  If SHTF and the power went out, and the cable turned off.......  People would actually go out and do something.......  This might be a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:38:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 7:39:01 AM EDT by Canoeguy]
Originally Posted By TimBear:
Masters degree plus my undergrad loans...  almost 40K in debt.  Ugh... and not finding a decent job in this economy = double whammy.

Any millionaires on here want to give me a job?!  I can work hard I tell ya!  lol.


Are you by chance a skilled carpenter? I am not a millionaire but I always need skilled labor. All I get through the door these days are these guys with useless degrees!

Just busting your chops a little... hope you find a job soon. In truth all I get are felons without drivers Licences
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:40:19 AM EDT



Originally Posted By DK-Prof:



Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

if everything goes to hell in a handbasket, I think you'll value your cash-in-hand over being debt free.



I mean, if you REALLY think SHTF is imminent, your best bet would be buying gold (or *whatever* of tangible barter value) on your credit card and home equity line.




Exactly.  If I thought a real serious SHTF or TEOTWAWKI was imminent, I'd max out ALL of my credit cards buying food, water, a new generator, ammunition, radios, batteries, water purification gear, fuel, medicine, chainsaws, tools, seeds, silver, cash, etc. etc. etc.



If everything goes to hell, who is going to collect on "debt" that is nothing more than an electronic entry in some bank's computer?


Funny, that list is EXACTLY what I've been spending money on like a drunken sailor for the last 4 years.  My family thought I was insane....for a while.  Now they're DAMNED glad I had the foresight to prepare like crazy.  





 
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:41:33 AM EDT
PAY YOURSELF FIRST
Buy the ammo, the food, the tools, the clothes you might need first, then pay the debt.
I would much rather enter the next great depression (IF its coming) with a lot of debt that would only go to a collector IF I failed to pay for a while..
than to pay off all the people who have already been bailed out and enter the depression without a pot to piss in.

If that depression does not come and the economy rebounds then it will be even easier to pay off debt.

I am just keeping up on payments, paying more than minimum of course.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:44:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:

Originally Posted By Guarocuya:
Originally Posted By jmb_nova:
$25k debt here all in student loans. .gov told me that i will pay a 24% penalty on paying my student loans off early.



A 24% penalty for paying off early? WTF?!?!?



That was my reaction too...


I'm really not trying to jump your case here, but you signed the papers. You might be better off in the future to understand the terms of any agreement you enter into before you sign on the dotted line.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:50:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2009 7:51:07 AM EDT by hubcityraider]
There's always the guy that says you should keep debt if the cost is less than your return on investment.  Makes sense so long as you always have income to cover the debt.  Personally I prefer the more simpleton approach that entails reducing my required monthly expenses as much as frackin possible.  I have a 15 yr mortgage at 4.75% and I plan to have that done in 6 years.  By the time that happens i won't owe anyone anything and I will have the freedom to not require as high of an income.  That's huge if you ever want to change career or have the ability to quit a bad situation or survive a long term forced unemployment.  Much more valuable to me than trying to out earn my debt by a couple % points.

As soon as the house is done I'll save cash for rental properties. Much easier to deal with a vacancy if you only have to pay property taxes on the thing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:50:38 AM EDT
Im working on it. Its been a goal for about a year and half.

My pickup was paid off in Sept.

My ex wife had taken out two credit cards in my name and put 2 grand on each one without my knowing.

Im working on them. One has a shitty interest rate so thats going to take a bit.

All this and being unemployed.

Im giving it my best shot.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:51:32 AM EDT
Im going to sell my house, which I built as an investment.  I will make some money on it and plan to pay off the wife's car (the only one we owe money on) after we buy another house.  The next house will be smaller than what we have now but its job is a home for us not an investment.  So the only thing I will owe on is the house, if I dont choose to buy it outright.  I probably wont buy it out right, just to have some cash flow.  I will probably only use the bank for 100k or so, If that.....might be less.

Other than the house, we have no debit.  We pay all our credit cards off every month, and if we have no car payment that will be awesome!!!
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:53:13 AM EDT
All consumer debt and vehicle will be gone in 15 months.  House payment will be gone in 6 years.

We've really sliced things down to get out of debt...and have been working on this for 2 years.  We would have zero debt now, but a failed business sort of hit us right in the nutsack about a year or so ago.

Hax
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 7:55:43 AM EDT
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