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Posted: 8/1/2001 9:36:45 AM EST
What other modern rifles use the gas impingement system besides the M16(AR15)& AR10? I guess when I say "modern" , something manufactured & sold in significant numbers in the last 50years. curious to know, THX p.s. Does the Steyr Aug ?? from photos I don't see where there is room for a gas piston What about the French FAMAS or Singapore's SAR80??
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 9:53:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2001 9:58:42 AM EST by DriftPunch]
Yes, there have been two true gas impingment weapons made in quantity. The first was the Ljungmann AG 42 (The Hakim is the same thing, just in a different caliber), and the second is the MAS 44. I say that these are "true" because there is no piston whatsoever, and the column of gas that operates the rifle does so by slamming into the bolt carrier, thereby opening it. The AR's (Stoner) system is not like this as the gas is ducted by the system into a piston conatined in the carrier. It is not "shocked" into opening like the AG 42 or MAS 44. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 10:08:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: Yes, there have been two true gas impingment weapons made in quantity. The first was the Ljungmann AG 42 (The Hakim is the same thing, just in a different caliber), and the second is the MAS 44. I say that these are "true" because there is no piston whatsoever, and the column of gas that operates the rifle does so by slamming into the bolt carrier, thereby opening it. The AR's (Stoner) system is a lot like this as the gas is ducted by the system into a piston conatined in the carrier. It is not "shocked" into opening like the AG 42 or MAS 44. Hope this helps.
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Yeah , THX ! So the Stoner system is not a "true" gas impingement system since ut utilizes the "tube" one the carrier. So are there any ohter Stoner systems in use out there ?? So you know of a link or site with more info. on the MAS 39 ,MAS 44 , & MAS 49 ? I'm not familiar with the Ljungman 42 (Hakim). What are it's origins? What type of gas system does the Steyr AUG use?
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 10:28:24 AM EST
Here is my Ljumgmann AG 42B: [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=50010033&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG] The Ljungmann is Swedish, and began production in 1942. It is chambered in 6.5*55 Swedish Mauser. Some minor defects were noted in the original design, so they underwent what is known as the "B" conversion in the '50's (I think). An original, non converted AG 42 is rare, whereas the B guns are fairly common. They were imported in quantity about 5 years ago, when I got the one in the photo above. I believe that the only reason it was successful is because the Swedes had the luxury of having good ammo. Had this thing fired the dirty stuff like the Soviets used, it would have been a poor performer. The MAS 44 was the French direct system. This was one tough rifle, and was quite reliable. The reason it was reliable is that it was made to loose enough tolerances not be effected by fouling in the action. Unlike the AG 42, this rifle saw combat in Africa, and performed well. Alas, darwinisim took place, and this system is now dead. The other methods are indeed superior. After using the AG 42, I tend to agree! The AUG is piston driven!
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 10:33:53 AM EST
THX DriftPunch!
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 12:23:23 PM EST
Leave us not forget the cute little Rashid carbine...
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 12:27:42 PM EST
So any other Stoner designs out there in use besides the M16(AR15) & Armalite AR10 ??
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 1:03:25 PM EST
The Korean company Daewoo had a rifle and a carbine a few years back ... one use an AR18 type gas system , the other was direct gas , like the AR10/15 . Not sure which was which , though . dP
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 1:22:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By dPrasse: The Korean company Daewoo had a rifle and a carbine a few years back ... one use an AR18 type gas system , the other was direct gas , like the AR10/15 . Not sure which was which , though . dP
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Yes , the Daewoo's I'm aware of utilize a gas piston above the barrel that is essentially an AK design. There is a minor (3 postion?) gas adjusment on the tube though. The bolt looks like an AR15 bolt & it takes AR magazines. A friend of mine has a pre-ban folder. It's not as lite as a CAR but nice shooter.
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 4:10:05 PM EST
The Daewoo K2 rifle had the AK type gas system and side folding stock. The K1A1 had a AR type gas system, a AR180 type recoil system, and a "Grease Gun" type stock...
Link Posted: 8/1/2001 6:24:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2001 6:21:43 PM EST by DriftPunch]
I also have a K1A1... [IMG]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=192182&a=1409106&p=52441210&Sequence=0&res=high[/IMG] It is a pure stoner system. The K2 does indeed have a hybrid system. The gas system is AK style, and the bolt/locking system is AR. Hence, it's more AK than AR. The K2 is a great gun, and one that I unfortunately don't have. I'm working on that though... FYI, K1A1's stopped being imported in '85, well before any ban. The Rashid is a minature Hakim.
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