Posted: 6/2/2010 3:46:33 PM EDT
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What is all of your's opinions on Front Sight and Dr. Pizza? |
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I also found the use of a video of a police officers death as a promotional item of the services they offer to be in poor taste,
BUT that being said. I have no experience with their classes or instructors. Someone other than me will have to give you more info on that. |
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Quoted: trying to sue glocktalk because a couple unhappy students posted about their experiences was classy tooQuoted: Using a dashcam video of a LEO dying to promote your school is asshatery at it's worst.Fuck Him. Heard about this. He use it in an ad to drum up business or was it used as a training film? |
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trying to sue glocktalk because a couple unhappy students posted about their experiences was classy too
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Using a dashcam video of a LEO dying to promote your school is asshatery at it's worst.Fuck Him. Heard about this. He use it in an ad to drum up business or was it used as a training film? 
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Quoted: I think if I want to get a lot of instruction i'll go to some other place like thunder ranch instead. Dr. Pizza sounds like the gun version of a mcdojo guy. Had a customer go take a few of their pistol classes he seemed happy enough with it but they tried to pull a kinda sorta scam on him IMO A few people have posted about the same thing they say "wow you are pretty good you could be a instructor here" If ya take ( and pay for ) all these other classes we would sure probably hire you as a instructor |
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IM me if you want to. Share your opinion publicly. OKAY, here is mine. Qualification First, I have have attended quite a few firearm training schools, including Rio Hondo Police Academy, Front Sight, Gunsite, Surefire Institute, and Firearm Training Academy (Bill Murphy's school). Also, I have received training on most small arms, including pistols, shotgun, rifle, SMG, and machine guns. I also held "life" memberships (Bronze and Silver) at Front Sight, which I receive my early formal trainings. At Gunsite, I was instructed under Pat Rogers, and at FTA, Bill Murphy. I think I am qualify to objectively talk about Front Sight. Training: I initially attended his training in back around 1998 to 2001, but then have return for two courses 2 years ago, one to accompany my wife, the other to accompany a friend. Very basic training, from basic marksmanship, to holster draw / sling deployment...all are good, but that is the end of it. They have very little understanding of tactics, and their instruction on tactics is marginal, at best, if not out dated or flat out wrong. The instructors have to teach a fixed doctrine, no deviation, and guess who developed the doctrine, Dr Piazza. It would be fine if he is Jeff Cooper, Bill Jordan...etc, but no, he is not. The closest he ever experience a life threaten drama was a drive by at the end of his block. He don't really understand tactics, the science, art, and application, since he have not even seen the elephant. Back in 2000, he had a bunch of good instructors with lots of real experience, and have receive training from several different schools, but these instructors have long gone or displaced. The current crop instructors teaches Monkey Say, Monkey Do, nothing more, all graduate from Front Sight, never attended other schools. Back in 2000, the final test was tough, 7 yard head shot (in the smaller IPSC head box), from holster in 1.7 Seconds. The last time I went there with my wife 2 years ago, the "tests" have been dumb down to 5 yards. Everything revolve around the final shooting test, basically marksmanship drill, with some tactical simulator added in (go play Rambo). Mind you, I am a certified Surefire Lowlight instructor, the last time I attended Front Sight low light instruction with my wife, I find out they basically taught the Surefire Lowlight DVD, which Surefire gives away for free, and anything beyond was flat out wrong and will get you killed. Also, they like to claim credit for everything they taught there, including stuff they copy from someone else...right Dr Piazza develop the Front Sight target using thousands of X-ray (basically a Gunsite target), right. I did not know better until I start attending Gunsite, what a different experience, then I start to broaden up my skills by attending different schools. Facility Fundamental, nothing much have changed since 10 years ago, and very few permanent building addition (in part, the land does not belong to Front Sight, which they claim they own) Business Lots of pressure for you to buy into their membership, their exchange in abundance. Their newest tactics is to push the top and not so top students into instructors, so they can get free labor in exchange for their useless certificates. Their latest flap on the video was one of the episode, using an officer's tragedy to sell their training classes. Politics No comment, I stay far away from that, all I can say is I don't like their politics. Seriously, you want basic marksmanship training so you are safe and being able to hit targets, Front Sight might be a good choice. If you want to learn more than basic marksmanship, go somewhere else. |
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and wtf is a "Four Weapons Combat Master?" This place seems like the gun version of scientology. 
To be fair, the requirement was developed by Chuck Taylor (ASAA), and 4 guns are pistol, rifle, shotgun, and machine gun. My question is, this is a range drill, no test on tactics and mindset, so how can it be called Combat Master? Here is the course of fire, and is pretty tough: ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- The qualification drill for Four Weapon Master is listed below. Three Weapon Master is the same drill without the submachine gun section. Target and scoring is the same as the Handgun Master, passing score is 90% for each section. All shotgun drills are performed with buckshot and minimum rifle caliber allowed is .30 caliber US carbine. Starting position for all long gun drills is High Ready or Rhodesian ready. Stage One - Pistol Standard Exercises - single target - 2 shots per drill, each drill performed once. 1 meter - 1.0 second (Speed Rock) 10 meters - 1.8 seconds 1 meter - 1.0 second (Step Back) 15 meters - 2.3 seconds 3 meters - 1.0 second 25 meters - 2.8 seconds 5 meters - 1.2 seconds 50 meters - 6.0 seconds 7 meters - 1.3 seconds Multiple Targets - targets at 5 meters and 1 meter apart, one shot per target, each drill performed once. 2 targets - 1.2 second 4 targets - 1.8 seconds 3 targets - 1.5 seconds Ambidextrous Shooting - 3 targets at 5 meters and spaced 1 meter apart. Candidate engages targets two handed, firing one round on each target, speed loads, then transfers weapon to weak hand and re-engages weak hand only firing one round per target. Time limit is 6 seconds for self loaders, 8 seconds for revolvers. Small Targets at Close Range - head shots - 1 shot per drill 7 meters - 1.5 seconds - perform four times 10 meters - 2.0 seconds - perform three times Stage Two - Submachine Gun Shoulder fired - two shots per drill 50 meters - 3.0 seconds 25 meters - 1.8 seconds 40 meters - 2.7 seconds 15 meters - 1.5 seconds 30 meters - 2.5 seconds 10 meters - 1.0 seconds Underarm Assault only - single target - 2 shots per drill, each drill performed once. 7 meters - 1.0 second 3 meters - 0.5 seconds 10 meters - 0.8 seconds Head shots - 1 shot per drill, perform each drill four times. 7 meters - 1.5 seconds 10 meters - 2.0 seconds Reloading Drill - single target at 10 meters, perform drill twice. Fire two rounds, change magazine, reengage with two more rounds. Time limit 5.5 seconds Stage Three - Shotgun Underarm Assault only - single target - 1 shot per drill, drill performed five times 7 meters - 1.0 second Shoulder fired only - single target - 1 shot per drill, each drill performed 10 times 10 meters - 1.2 seconds 25 meters - 1.8 seconds 15 meters - 1.5 seconds Multiple Targets - targets at 7 meters, 2 meters apart center to center, performed drills once. 2 targets - 1 shot on each - 1.5 seconds 3 targets - 1 shot on each - 2.0 seconds Stage Four - Rifle Head Shots - 1 shot per drill - perform drill five times 25 meters - 2.0 seconds Body Shots - 1 shot per drill - perform each drill five times 50 meters - 1.5 seconds 150 meters - 5.0 seconds 100 meters - 4.0 seconds Multiple Targets - targets at 50 meters, 1 meter apart center to center, performed drills once. 2 targets - 1 shot on each - 3.0 seconds 3 targets - 1 shot on each - 3.5 seconds 4 targets - 1 shot on each - 4.0 seconds Underarm Assault only - single target - 1 shot per drill, drill performed six times 7 meters - 1.0 second Snap Shots - single target - 1 shot per drill, drill performed five times 15 meters - 1.0 second ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- |
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trying to sue glocktalk because a couple unhappy students posted about their experiences was classy too
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Using a dashcam video of a LEO dying to promote your school is asshatery at it's worst.Fuck Him. Heard about this. He use it in an ad to drum up business or was it used as a training film? Any relation to Dick Swan 
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I've read some reviews that the training there wasn't terrible, but we're not talking advanced tactics either according to many.
What I find so strange is the smoke and mirrors as to what is actually there. I mean for years I read stuff about all these things they had when in reality it was a "plan for the future/construction in progress". Yeah if construction in progress means we've got the idea but nothing in the dirt. I've been tempted a few times to buy the cheap certs that people offer for training, but by the time I get in to travel, etc. I think there are other courses I'd rather go to e.g. Magpul Dynamics, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, etc. |
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They are an industry partner here. Please post any questions here http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=102 |
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A guy I work with went there and raves about it, but something about the whole setup doesn't sound quite right. He offered me a membership thingy for what seemed a fairly reasonable price, but it would let me take the same 3 classes as many times as I wanted for the rest of my life? I didn't see why. The more he talked, the more it sounded like Amway.
And he was just a little too enthusiastic about everything. Maybe he got really good training, maybe he's just like that, or maybe it's the first time he took a class, I don't know. He just made it sound less like a professional experience and more like a ... well, after hearing Scientology mentioned, that's stuck in my head so in retrospect he made it sound like cult experience. Then I found out whatsisbucket was a dentist or whatever and has little firearms experience, so I decided to stick with my local dudes. |
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I've read some reviews that the training there wasn't terrible, but we're not talking advanced tactics either according to many. What I find so strange is the smoke and mirrors as to what is actually there. I mean for years I read stuff about all these things they had when in reality it was a "plan for the future/construction in progress". Yeah if construction in progress means we've got the idea but nothing in the dirt. I've been tempted a few times to buy the cheap certs that people offer for training, but by the time I get in to travel, etc. I think there are other courses I'd rather go to e.g. Magpul Dynamics, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, etc. If you have received training from Gunsite, Magpul, Thunder Ranch, don't bother with Front Sight, the place is sub par when compared to Gunsite and similar schools. One more thing, once you have attended one Front Sight course, the phone call is non stop to offer you deals for membership, reduce courses...etc. It have been 2 years since I set foot at the facility, and more than 9 years I ended my training association with Front Sight, and I am still getting the special offer mail and phone calls, even thou I asked them to stop. I was once told, by one of the instructor, they are paid to drive the construction vehicles around to make dust, so it leaves the impression that construction work are on going. Let me recount what had been done: 10 years ago, portable potty, 10 years later, more portable potty. 10 years ago, giant tent as centeral assembly area, 10 years later, oh a building to house the assembly hall and pro shop, with AC too. 10 years ago, tents on range, but the wind keep blowing it away. 10 years later, permanent shade, consists of in gorund steel beam and steel roof, no dedicated training facility, outdoors (sort of difficult to hear the instructor when the Nevada wind decide to blow). Other than that, maybe some revision of the tactical simulator, nothing else have changed. |
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I went twice with friends while in vegas for their old subgun glass, we had a blast and thought it was pretty entertaining. I've only been to their free subgun class so can't talk about their normal handgun classes etc but it was fun. we didn't really get pressured or anything, they offered us a membership but you could get up and walk pretty much any time you wanted.
that's been years ago though. |
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Stop Screaming and start shooting
He added a caveat at the beginning of the post.Well he can try and justify it in any way he wants, however if you scan down and read the original post he was clearly using this poor man's death as a promotional tool.I don't care if "Dr" Piazza was Wyatt Earp reincarnated,He's got nothing I want. |