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Posted: 8/16/2005 3:46:01 PM EDT
That was pretty dumb.

Former marine sniper accused of shooting sheriff's helicopter

ALBUQUERQUE -- News 13 has learned that the man accused of shooting down a sheriff’s department helicopter is a former sniper in the US Marines.

Jason Kerns, 29, was arrested Monday at his home on Columbus Circle, located near the crash site in Paradise Hills.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff says it's apparent Kerns’ training played a role in the incident. The helicopter was 400 feet above the ground when it was hit and landed over 1600 feet away from kern’s property.

Kearns was honorably discharged from the military in 2001 and does not have a criminal history.

According to the criminal complaint, Kerns told deputies he heard a gunshot and then saw the chopper go down in the early morning of August 6th.

He said he then ran to help the pilot and deputy. However, deputies soon learned it wasn't Kerns who helped the occupants, was he was the only person who heard a gunshot.

Gun linked to Kerns
They did several interviews with Kerns, and set up surveillance on his home. They soon learned kerns owns a high-powered 30-06 rifle.

Forensic investigators were able to determine the gun matched the bullet that brought down the helicopter.

Kerns was arrested in his driveway as he arrived home Monday night.

Kearns is facing state charges, and could soon face federal charges.

“What’s important is that we're going to prosecute this crime to the fullest,” says Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White. “There are some very serious charges implied against someone who shoots at an aircraft. We intend to work with the FBI and (District) attorneys’ office to bring those charges.”

www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=11570
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:51:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 3:52:10 PM EDT by hydroshok]
What a idiot
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:53:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 3:56:01 PM EDT by AR15fan]
There is a several page thread on this incident here

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=378064

It included many of the cop bashers and tin foil hat crowd claiming the pilot shot himself, or the observer shot the pilot, or the gunshot story was made up to cover up bad piloting skills. Of course that crowd is strangly silent now....
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:55:11 PM EDT
[works eraser]Former Marine Terrorist .30-06 .50BMG

60 Minutes is gonna have a field day with this one.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 3:59:57 PM EDT
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:01:52 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



Article says 400 feet, not 500 meters.

WHOOPS, the altitude was 400 feet.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:01:00 PM EDT
Why doesn't everyone want to reserve judgment or concede 'they weren't there' like when a cop fucks up?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:01:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:01:53 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



Article says 400 feet, not 500 meters.



Altitude.

What about horizontal distance?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:03:02 PM EDT
Nice shot.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:05:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



Article says 400 feet, not 500 meters.



Altitude.

What about horizontal distance?



I reckon about 550 yards.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:05:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
There is a several page thread on this incident here

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=378064

It included many of the cop bashers and tin foil hat crowd claiming the pilot shot himself, or the observer shot the pilot, or the gunshot story was made up to cover up bad piloting skills. Of course that crowd is strangly silent now....



YOU WERE THE SECOND PERSON TO POST A REPLY!!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:06:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.



Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:09:33 PM EDT by distributor_of_pain]

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



It's an equation.

They have what they would consider a prime suspect, therefore whatever flimsy evidence they have fills the other "we are 95% certain he did it, to total 100%.

5% evidence - 95% "I really think it's him"

ETA: He will walk if he holds his ground.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:09:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Kerns was arrested in his driveway as he arrived home Monday night.



what? no standoff? no arriving in the middle of the night kicking in the Marine sniper's door?

have they actually changed tactics?

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:09:21 PM EDT
If one bullet from a hunting rifle will bring down their chopper...

wow, im not really sure what to say about this. Seriously.

This was in Texas, right? Who in Texas doesnt own a 30-06
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:10:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



It's an equation.

They have what they would consider a prime suspect, therefore whatever flimsy evidence they have fills the other "we are 95% certain he did it, to total 100%.

5% evidence - 95% "I really think it's him"



i don't know about his town, but around here, you just can't be trusted if you don't own at least one 30-06.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:11:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:24:53 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
There is a several page thread on this incident here

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=378064

It included many of the cop bashers and tin foil hat crowd claiming the pilot shot himself, or the observer shot the pilot, or the gunshot story was made up to cover up bad piloting skills. Of course that crowd is strangly silent now....



YOU WERE THE SECOND PERSON TO POST A REPLY!!!



Have not returned to the thread where they made their allegations of police misconduct. not this dupe.


As for the claims that fragmented bullets hold no evidentiary value. The combined weight of all recovered fragments is indicative of caliber among other things.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:12:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



Metallurgical analysis. You can look at very small changes in lead content and determine what batch a round came from (in theory). I'm guessing here that it was the rounds he had on hand, not the gun, that linked him.

Then again, it depends on the degree of fragmentation. It could have been less severe and kept the base intact which would give up riflling information.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:12:22 PM EDT
This is all very strange... I dont see how they have enough evidence.

I think its a good lead at least... but I withhold judgement which is strangely out of character for me


- BG
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:13:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By R0ME0:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.






Yup.
Sounds to me like somone was practicing dry-firing and forgot to unload their gun
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:16:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Austrian:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
the original article said the bullet fragmented, how did they trace it to the gun? Why would he take a 500 yard shot to shoot down a helicopter? This doesn't make alot of sense......



Metallurgical analysis. You can look at very small changes in lead content and determine what batch a round came from (in theory). I'm guessing here that it was the rounds he had on hand, not the gun, that linked him.

Then again, it depends on the degree of fragmentation. It could have been less severe and kept the base intact which would give up riflling information.


I've heard they can use metallurgical analysis to trace the lead content of the bullet to the lead content in the barrel, but supposedly a good barrel cleaning fixes that.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:26:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
That was pretty dumb.

Former marine sniper accused of shooting sheriff's helicopter

ALBUQUERQUE -- News 13 has learned that the man accused of shooting down a sheriff’s department helicopter is a former sniper in the US Marines.

Jason Kerns, 29, was arrested Monday at his home on Columbus Circle, located near the crash site in Paradise Hills.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff says it's apparent Kerns’ training played a role in the incident. The helicopter was 400 feet above the ground when it was hit and landed over 1600 feet away from kern’s property.

Kearns was honorably discharged from the military in 2001 and does not have a criminal history.

According to the criminal complaint, Kerns told deputies he heard a gunshot and then saw the chopper go down in the early morning of August 6th.

He said he then ran to help the pilot and deputy. However, deputies soon learned it wasn't Kerns who helped the occupants, was he was the only person who heard a gunshot.

Gun linked to Kerns
They did several interviews with Kerns, and set up surveillance on his home. They soon learned kerns owns a high-powered 30-06 rifle.

Forensic investigators were able to determine the gun matched the bullet that brought down the helicopter.

Kerns was arrested in his driveway as he arrived home Monday night.

Kearns is facing state charges, and could soon face federal charges.

“What’s important is that we're going to prosecute this crime to the fullest,” says Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White. “There are some very serious charges implied against someone who shoots at an aircraft. We intend to work with the FBI and (District) attorneys’ office to bring those charges.”

www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=11570



I TOLD YOU A 30-06 COULD DO IT.........
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:32:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:34:02 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By raven:
That was pretty dumb.

Former marine sniper accused of shooting sheriff's helicopter

ALBUQUERQUE -- News 13 has learned that the man accused of shooting down a sheriff’s department helicopter is a former sniper in the US Marines.

Jason Kerns, 29, was arrested Monday at his home on Columbus Circle, located near the crash site in Paradise Hills.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff says it's apparent Kerns’ training played a role in the incident. The helicopter was 400 feet above the ground when it was hit and landed over 1600 feet away from kern’s property.

Kearns was honorably discharged from the military in 2001 and does not have a criminal history.

According to the criminal complaint, Kerns told deputies he heard a gunshot and then saw the chopper go down in the early morning of August 6th.

He said he then ran to help the pilot and deputy. However, deputies soon learned it wasn't Kerns who helped the occupants, was he was the only person who heard a gunshot.

Gun linked to Kerns
They did several interviews with Kerns, and set up surveillance on his home. They soon learned kerns owns a high-powered 30-06 rifle.

Forensic investigators were able to determine the gun matched the bullet that brought down the helicopter.

Kerns was arrested in his driveway as he arrived home Monday night.

Kearns is facing state charges, and could soon face federal charges.

“What’s important is that we're going to prosecute this crime to the fullest,” says Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White. “There are some very serious charges implied against someone who shoots at an aircraft. We intend to work with the FBI and (District) attorneys’ office to bring those charges.”

www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=11570



Damn, it's beginning. At least they have added "sniper rifle" yet.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By raven:
That was pretty dumb.

Former marine sniper accused of shooting sheriff's helicopter

ALBUQUERQUE -- News 13 has learned that the man accused of shooting down a sheriff’s department helicopter is a former sniper in the US Marines.

Jason Kerns, 29, was arrested Monday at his home on Columbus Circle, located near the crash site in Paradise Hills.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff says it's apparent Kerns’ training played a role in the incident. The helicopter was 400 feet above the ground when it was hit and landed over 1600 feet away from kern’s property.

Kearns was honorably discharged from the military in 2001 and does not have a criminal history.

According to the criminal complaint, Kerns told deputies he heard a gunshot and then saw the chopper go down in the early morning of August 6th.

He said he then ran to help the pilot and deputy. However, deputies soon learned it wasn't Kerns who helped the occupants, was he was the only person who heard a gunshot.

Gun linked to Kerns
They did several interviews with Kerns, and set up surveillance on his home. They soon learned kerns owns a high-powered 30-06 rifle.

Forensic investigators were able to determine the gun matched the bullet that brought down the helicopter.

Kerns was arrested in his driveway as he arrived home Monday night.

Kearns is facing state charges, and could soon face federal charges.

“What’s important is that we're going to prosecute this crime to the fullest,” says Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White. “There are some very serious charges implied against someone who shoots at an aircraft. We intend to work with the FBI and (District) attorneys’ office to bring those charges.”

www.krqe.com/expanded.asp?ID=11570



I TOLD YOU A 30-06 COULD DO IT.........





well, he's right
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.





[GySgt Hartman mode on]...because he learned to shoot in the Marines...[/Gysgt Hartman mode off]

"Marines kill everything they see." including helos
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:41:22 PM EDT
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:46:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.





[GySgt Hartman mode on]...because he learned to shoot in the Marines...[/Gysgt Hartman mode off]

"Marines kill everything they see." including helos



And that is why we are still thankful that the 30-40 Krag was developed and improved to the .30-03 then resized the the "perfect round" .30-06
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:50:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp: [GySgt Hartman mode on]...because he learned to shoot in the Marines...[/Gysgt Hartman mode off] "Marines kill everything they see." including helos
Heh! Any word on the real reason why the ex-Marine shot down the police helicopter?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:52:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.



Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:53:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 4:54:07 PM EDT by H46Driver]

Originally Posted By 1BMF:
If one bullet from a hunting rifle will bring down their chopper...

wow, im not really sure what to say about this. Seriously.

This was in Texas, right? Who in Texas doesnt own a 30-06



One bullet could bring down most helos, certainly what I flew if it was well placed. A Sikorsky test pilot told me that the H-60 series is designed to take a single 7.62 NATO hit anwhere and survive. That's pretty hearty if it is a gearbox or a tail rotor drive shaft or any other number of small complex parts.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:57:07 PM EDT
Hope he enjoys fudge pounding. Because he's about to find out.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:58:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Hope he enjoys fudge pounding. Because he's about to find out.



"hey boah! Yo sho do gots a pretty mouf!"
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:15:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By wildearp: [GySgt Hartman mode on]...because he learned to shoot in the Marines...[/Gysgt Hartman mode off] "Marines kill everything they see." including helos
Heh! Any word on the real reason why the ex-Marine shot down the police helicopter?



I'm thinking boredom. The hold my beer and watch this mentality...
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:17:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Nice shot.



Not really. Sounds like he hit kinda low if he hit one of the pedals.


If I was ever going to do something incredibly fucking stupid like shooting at a helicopter, I think I'd be going for the engine and transmission, not the pilot.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:32:31 PM EDT
All they would need really would be a large piece of copper jacket and a few extra bits. They probably dug that out of the pilot's leg.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:35:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?



Yah, that was my question?

WTF?

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:41:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?



Yah, that was my question?

WTF?




Read Austrian's post. They probably did a metallugical analysis of the fragments and compared them to the composition of the bullets owned by the shooter. When they matched, they arrested him.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:43:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?



Yah, that was my question?

WTF?




Read Austrian's post. They probably did a metallugical analysis of the fragments and compared them to the composition of the bullets owned by the shooter. When they matched, they arrested him.



So they spent the money, probably well into the 5 figure mark, to do this..but they can't catch gangbanger murderers and other scum?

/me shakes his head
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:51:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 6:53:26 PM EDT by Johninaustin]
Simple explanation. They recovered the base of the bullet. Even SIMPLER explanation. Numbnuts shooter implicated himself six different ways.

Not everything in LE requires CSI.

Who was it touting Occam's Razor?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:52:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?



Yah, that was my question?

WTF?




Read Austrian's post. They probably did a metallugical analysis of the fragments and compared them to the composition of the bullets owned by the shooter. When they matched, they arrested him.



So they spent the money, probably well into the 5 figure mark, to do this..but they can't catch gangbanger murderers and other scum?

/me shakes his head



Yeah, I'm happy they caught him too
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:52:08 PM EDT
My, my, my, they certainly got the bullet forensics out of a crashed chopper, and back from the lab awful fast..............


Link Posted: 8/16/2005 6:53:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Simpler explanation. They recovered the base of the bullet. Even SIMPLER explanation. Numbnuts shooter implicated himself six different ways.

Not everything in LE requires CSI.

Who was it touting Occam's Razor?



Yeah Yeah...possible, just didnt see it mentioned anywhere...

Got a point, though

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:00:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Simple explanation. They recovered the base of the bullet. Even SIMPLER explanation. Numbnuts shooter implicated himself six different ways.

Not everything in LE requires CSI.

Who was it touting Occam's Razor?



That was in the other thread. Some tin foil hat club member claiming the helo was brought down by a crew members ND, IIRC.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:16:12 PM EDT
If he did it he is either a hell of a shot, or damn UNlucky. I question tho if the bullet fragged that they can link it in any way unless he talks. Hell, they could not even match up fired bullets with BBLs with enough certainty that the whole ballistics forensics angle was shot to hell in states that tried it. So they SAY it came from a 30/06, BS, could have come from a 308 too, or how many other 30 cal rifles. If all they are playing on is forensics all he will need is a good lawyer. Match the lead? Jacketed. Match the Jacket? How many cases were sold in the area of that lot number? If he did it he's a dumb ass and deserves what he gets, Bout all they will be able to prove is if he fired the gun recently and I doubt they checked his hands and such for powder at the time of the incident. Besides, with a rifle there would probably be none anyways. I'd like to see more evidence first myself that is not so sketchy.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
If he did it he is either a hell of a shot...



Hovering at 400 feet its less than a 140M shot.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:52:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CK1:
[works eraser]Former Marine Terrorist .30-06 .50BMG

60 Minutes is gonna have a field day with this one.


At least we can argue that banning 50's is pointless if this guy is baggin' choppers with the most popular caliber of rifle in America.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:58:19 PM EDT
Filter - Hey Man Nice Shot.mp3
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:24:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Evil_Ed:

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
Motive?

the bullet fragmented, yet they are positive it was a 30-cal round from his rifle?



Yah, that was my question?

WTF?




Read Austrian's post. They probably did a metallugical analysis of the fragments and compared them to the composition of the bullets owned by the shooter. When they matched, they arrested him.



So they spent the money, probably well into the 5 figure mark, to do this..but they can't catch gangbanger murderers and other scum?

/me shakes his head



Nah. Standard FBI lab test. Has been criticized in past as not narrowing down things well enough. (A single batch of LC ammo could be 30,000 rounds, all of which have similar if not the same results on the test).

Still, cheap. They DID say FBI was involved, no?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:33:09 PM EDT
gotta stop trippin that acid when you come back from the desert...it Fs w/ ur mind
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 9:58:23 PM EDT
A 550 yard "one shot, one kill" on a helo is pretty damn impressive (or lucky).

I have no idea the motives. Maybe the guy freaked out and thought he was a Vietcong or something.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 10:17:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
A 550 yard "one shot, one kill" on a helo is pretty damn impressive (or lucky).

I have no idea the motives. Maybe the guy freaked out and thought he was a Vietcong or something.



That was feet, not meters, I guess I'm not surprised a marine trained sniper could make such a shot, that he chose to do so is the mystery.

At least no one was killed.
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