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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/10/2004 4:46:08 AM EST

More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries."

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.



The Prowler
Another Link Same Story

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:51:22 AM EST
This would SINK the Bush Administration if they had done something similar.


Kerry will get a Free Pass
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:53:04 AM EST
Oh please... I will die to be able to slap this in the faces of the office Kerry horde!

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:53:17 AM EST
just goes to show how desperate Skerry is
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:54:37 AM EST
DNC email:


Back in February, President Bush sat down in the Oval Office for an interview with Tim Russert and spoke about his service in the National Guard. Bush told us, "I put in my time, proudly so." He said, "And I'm telling you, I did my duty."

But now we know that Bush dishonored the Oval Office by lying to the American people.

New military documents show that Bush disobeyed a direct order from his commander to take a flight physical and "failed to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards" -- and was grounded as a result.

New evidence supports claims that Bush missed months of service and that he never showed up for service with the Alabama National Guard.

New evidence shows that Bush received special treatment. His supervisor wrote that he felt pressured from above to "sugar coat" Bush's records.

And Ben Barnes, former Lt. Governor and State House Speaker of Texas, has come forward to say that he pulled strings to get Bush a coveted spot in the Guard, which directly contradicts Bush's claim that he received no special treatment.

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:55:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:59:16 AM EST
It's my favorite story of the year.

The press will dig and dig and dig.
Meanwhile, no one is paying attention to Kerry.
His numbers droop.
Then the story will break that IT CAME FROM HIS CAMPAIGN.

Then he'll get some attention.

This is just awesome.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:00:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:01:30 AM EST by NYPatriot]
It is pretty obvious who was in charge of releaseing these documents to CBS. It happened immediately after Kerry's campaign staff shake up.

This has the Clinton's fingerprints all over it. The only real question is did they release the documents to hurt Bush or Kerry!!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:12:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
It is pretty obvious who was in charge of releaseing these documents to CBS. It happened immediately after Kerry's campaign staff shake up.

This has the Clinton's fingerprints all over it. The only real question is did they release the documents to hurt Bush or Kerry!!!



Great point! I always figured that the Dems were going to go into the tank this year, ANYONE should have known that Kerry was a weak candidate, but he got a free pass to the nomination. Clinton does enough to look like a "good solider" but not enough to help Kerry, who was always going to lose.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:17:22 AM EST
If Kerry's campaign gave forged documents to CBS (and considering that Ben Barnes who did the 60 Minutes story works for the Kerry campaign, I'd say that is a good chance), Kerry is going to be hurting.

First, even if CBS wants to downplay the issue, market competition will mean that ABC, NBC, CNN and FOX have lots of incentive to give it prime time coverage (ABC covered it this morning on their radio newsfeed in fact).

Second, Kerry will have just burned a major supporter of his campaign in a public and humiliating fashion. Combine that with his recent drop in the polls (He is going to lose anyway, we might as well get the scoop) and the huge amount of well-documented research (low-hanging fruit for reporters, most of the work is already done) done by the Swift Vets and CBS will have a lot of incentive to go after Kerry.

Once one of the major press organizations starts after Kerry, it will be a pack of jackals in to see who can get the most meat off the corpse.

At a minimum, press reporters are going to be a LOT more skeptical of anything Kerry tells them and that generally does not help the public image - particularly when the candidate is already well known for responding poorly to criticism.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:21:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:22:03 AM EST by DriftPunch]

but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.


Yes, and FDR knew it was coming, but still allowed Pearl Harbor to be struck in order to get us into WWII. It was all a part of his master plan to really pull us out of the depression by getting factories going full tilt... What a genius!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:23:55 AM EST
If they are forgeries and therefore spout complete lies I am sure you will here some blurbs about it. The media will just stop talking about it since they surely will not correct their mistakes (CBS 60 Minutes II) and will move on to the next hot thing.

Where the documents came from is still a question. The Clinton aspect is being played up by some talkers and I believe its something to consider. I believe that the Kerry campaign expected CBS to do their dirtywork and when CBS moved without a serious examination they were left out in the open.

This shows me that:

1. Like I didn't already know it the "mainstream" media is pretty much supporting Kerry. If Kerry's campaign looks to the mainstream media as their investigation group and felt they were liked well enough to dump this on them than this point seems clear. There was some level of trust here that was violated.

2. If the documents were forged (and obviously poorly) to hurt Bush they didn't take into consideration Bush's supporters or any objective observer examining the documents. This equals stupidity which leads to...

3. This was designed specifically to hurt the Kerry campaign and those who supported these documents. For them to run blind into this shows that they either had too much trust in the document providers or are stupid.

4. This also show the beginnings of desparation. Kerry could not counter the Swift Boat Vets with open and honest answers so he tried what he thought would get some of the heat off of him; look at Bush. This whole campaign seems focused around Vietnam. The Dems went after Bush's record in February of this year, the argument was shot down, and now its back. Kerry came to the DNC in Boston as a Vietnam war hero and pretty much ran on that. It shows me that he has no real platform or answers to questions since his answer to everyhting has been "I served in Vietnam."

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:25:53 AM EST
Its a conspiracy to get Kerry to lose, so that Hillary can run in 2008.

Just kidding.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:31:46 AM EST

This is absolutely pathetic! Kerry and his people are about as low as you can get. I guess I would have expected as much from the Clinton gang.

Watch, with CBS trying to cover their butts, there'll be infighting between the Kerry camp with the Networks. I hope Rowe didn't have anything to do with it, cause it will totally destroy the character of the Democrats with independent voters.

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:37:55 AM EST by TheWind]
Kerry was looking for dirt....and he found he was knee deep in mud. If it was a set up to nail Kerry what different is it from his wife funding all the anti Bush groups. He gets mad at the Swift vets, well they have no direct link to Bush, hell I support Bush, and the Swift Vets....does that mean that Bush made me do it?
Politics is dirty... the whole thing is Kerry's intent to beat the VN thing to death and trash Bush....if you can't deal with it, go crying home to Boston!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:38:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:40:22 AM EST
Outstanding.

SS Kerry is sinking faster than the Titantic.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:43:21 AM EST

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.


So is this an attempt at reverse spin by the Kerry camp? They would have to prove somewhere that the document originated with Rove. Of course that might be hard to do if the Clintons introduced them into the campaign HQ. If Hillary or Bill got them from a Rove associate, they couldn't admit it without linking themselves to the sabotage. They could claim they thought the documents were authentic and only wanted to help the Kerry campaign, but the mere fact that Hillary would have had to pass on them would have soured it for Kerry. That would drive a wedge even farther into his staffers. Damn. That's pretty good planning. I'm glad I'm not in politics.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:51:03 AM EST
Wonder if this will give the Swiftboat ads a little more credability? You know, political camps pay a lot of money for people who's sole job it is to do damage control - so exactly how do you get out of this one?

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:57:07 AM EST
Outhouse F'n sKerry can lie cheat and steal the POTUS
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:57:19 AM EST

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."




What a load of rubbish. If Bush got a hangnail they would talk about it for days like he had cancer. Kerry is desperate, and this is the start of damage control. These papers are going to blow up like one of Kerry's grenades.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:01:32 AM EST
Blistering email sent to CBS. Thanks for the link.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:08:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
If Kerry's campaign gave forged documents to CBS (and considering that Ben Barnes who did the 60 Minutes story works for the Kerry campaign, I'd say that is a good chance), Kerry is going to be hurting.

First, even if CBS wants to downplay the issue, market competition will mean that ABC, NBC, CNN and FOX have lots of incentive to give it prime time coverage (ABC covered it this morning on their radio newsfeed in fact).

Second, Kerry will have just burned a major supporter of his campaign in a public and humiliating fashion. Combine that with his recent drop in the polls (He is going to lose anyway, we might as well get the scoop) and the huge amount of well-documented research (low-hanging fruit for reporters, most of the work is already done) done by the Swift Vets and CBS will have a lot of incentive to go after Kerry.

Once one of the major press organizations starts after Kerry, it will be a pack of jackals in to see who can get the most meat off the corpse.

At a minimum, press reporters are going to be a LOT more skeptical of anything Kerry tells them and that generally does not help the public image - particularly when the candidate is already well known for responding poorly to criticism.


Excellent post.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:15:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
First, even if CBS wants to downplay the issue, market competition will mean that ABC, NBC, CNN and FOX have lots of incentive to give it prime time coverage (ABC covered it this morning on their radio newsfeed in fact).

Feeding frenzy as the media sharks start devouring one another. It's a beautiful thing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:15:17 AM EST
Indeed.

The best part of this story, is the fact that it's already a HUGE story.

....and the fact that these documents came from the Kerry camp HASN'T EVEN BROKEN, YET.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:22:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
First, even if CBS wants to downplay the issue, market competition will mean that ABC, NBC, CNN and FOX have lots of incentive to give it prime time coverage (ABC covered it this morning on their radio newsfeed in fact).

Feeding frenzy as the media sharks start devouring one another. It's a beautiful thing.




Yeah, the big networks would take hurting their competition over political views any day of the week.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:23:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:31:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By tdome:
Wow... yet more official documents appear: :D




Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:35:29 AM EST
http://ratherbiased.com/images/clippy.png

This needs to be put in every thread related to these documents

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:44:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
It is pretty obvious who was in charge of releaseing these documents to CBS. It happened immediately after Kerry's campaign staff shake up.

This has the Clinton's fingerprints all over it. The only real question is did they release the documents to hurt Bush or Kerry!!!





Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:57:27 AM EST
More good news, ABC Nightline is doing a story in the forgeries in tonight's broadcast and the Washington Post is running a brutal piece as well that is headlining MSNBC news right now.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5955784/

So, we have two major media organizations already giving this top page coverage. There is about to be a genuine media feeding frenzy on this issue I think...

O, one more thing... the daughter of Ben Barnes (60 Minutes chief accuser) is going on the record saying that her father is lying about Bush in order to sell a book deal he has made and advance his political career (appointment in a Kerry administration).
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:59:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:11:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 7:12:15 AM EST by Shane333]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Oh man... did he molest his girl to make her turn on him like that? Daughters just don't say that about daddy unless he is a real scumbag!



He told her himself that he was doing it to promote his own book.

ETA: an anti-Bush book, to be exact.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:21:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By A-nus:
Here is a linke to CBS feedback Give'm Hell guys!!!hr


Email sent, hope and cannot wait to get a response.

CBS News -------BAGGED!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:48:15 AM EST
You know, if Kerry was willing to forge these military documents, I wonder what the chances are that he forged those after action reports in Vietnam too?

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:59:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 8:00:20 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:59:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 12:32:52 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
I wonder if "V" in his "combat V" is in the Times New Roman font?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:01:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
I wonder if "V" in his "combat V" in the Times New Roman font?



Link Posted: 9/10/2004 11:14:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
It is pretty obvious who was in charge of releaseing these documents to CBS. It happened immediately after Kerry's campaign staff shake up.

This has the Clinton's fingerprints all over it. The only real question is did they release the documents to hurt Bush or Kerry!!!



I can't make up my mind if it was deliberate (by someone old enough to know what a typewriter is) or a really bad, but legitimate, attempt to forge a document critical of Bush (by someone too young to have any idea how an actual typerwriter works).

In any case, it makes Kerry's team look stupid and desperate, and it makes it blatant how stupid, desperate, and partisan CBS news is.

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