Posted: 3/5/2005 5:21:25 AM EDT
 " Not for softies Having a shot at playing soldiers can hurt, as Thomas Harding discovers John McAleese became a symbol of the boldness of the SAS when he was photographed, in May 1980, on the balcony of the Iranian embassy in London, about to blast open a window and begin the rescue of 19 hostages. He could not have envisaged that, 25 years later, he would be standing in a field in Northern Ireland dressed in combat fatigues, holding a replica M16 assault rifle and instructing an eager squad of IT workers, lawyers and salesmen in the finer arts of close quarter battle. McAleese, 55, who co-presented the BBC series SAS: Are You Tough Enough?, is helping to fulfil the fantasies of a group of amateur combat enthusiasts whose previous experience of warfare has probably been confined to playing computer games at home on the sofa. Dressed in full combat gear and carrying authentic weapons, they are playing Airsoft, a game so similar to close-quarter modern infantry fighting that American troops in Kuwait used it for training before the Iraq war. What is it that drives the estimated 10,000 Airsofters in Britain to spend several thousand pounds on equipment in order to be left dirty, cold and covered in painful welts after a weekend's fighting? Although it hurts to be hit by a hard plastic BB pellet travelling at 400 ft per second, the appeal lies in stepping into a combat zone festooned with assault weapons, side-arms, grenades and short-wave radio microphones without having to worry about being shot for real. Over a weekend, the players are given a variety of missions, from hostage rescue to Black Hawk Down urban scenarios and countryside ambushes. Any situation you can imagine is mapped out by a legion of former Special Forces troops, from the SAS, the French Foreign Legion, Green Berets and Marines, all cashing in on a fad that pays well without the mortal hazards." Link to rest of article |
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Stop with the airsoft bashing. It's a hobby. Not everyone wants to go into or can go into the military. But they still want to be able to employ a weapon in a safe manor and with some skill. Not to mention some of us like full auto guns and cannot own them. This is the next best thing. We're a community right? Let's act like it. 
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I don't remember the name but I read something about Ted Nugent setting up a similar airsoft camp here in the states, with professionals leading the "troops" and such as well. If I was going to pay that kind of money I'd get some real training at something like Thunder Ranch or similar though... |
+1 |
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Sounds like 90% of gunstore employees and gun show dealers. |
 Too true
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Two corrections: Technically, a toy gun that fires BB's is NOT a "weapon" It's spelled "manner" NOT "manor" Although a matter of opinion (I guess), the "next best thing" to a full auto weapon is the semi-auto version, with same weight, specs, ammunition, recoil, ballistics, etc - NOT a toy replica of it, that fires BBs |
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My son is big on Airsofting… and he is Ex-Army, (Combat Engineer Officer). He does a lot of his CQB days at this location…… www.combatsouth.co.uk/CS%20Urban/widley.htm It's about 5 miles from me, a real Fort. His Airsoft HKMP5 costs more than the real thing… but as you cannot own a HK of any flavor here in the UK he doesn't have much choice. When I first got my AR15 he called round while I was cleaning it… "Wow dad! thats a really cool AR15! is it gas or electric?" "Neither, it's cartridge" "What, gas catridge?" "Nope, brass ones with bullets" I let him touch it once in a while, he hates me now…  ANdy |
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Oh come on. Let's not reduce this to a typo hunt. Airsoft is an effective training tool. And by weapon I meant a real firearm. Not everyone can afford to go to Gunsite or Frontsight. The only training they can get is with thier buddies in the military on the weekends. And while it may not be as professional, I feel I am more prepared to defend myself since going one on one with another guy and not just paper or steel targets. It's just another level of the shooting culture. But a lot of people here tend to treat it like the black sheep of the family. And if you can find me a CA legal Civy version of the G36C that uses 30 round mags and not stripper clips I'll jump all over it. Till then airsoft is all I can get.
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| While I agree that Airsoft can be an effective training tool for those that also have appropriate basic combat training, it IS NOT combat. Besides the obvious fact that you're not going to get killed, the fact that you go home at the end of the day or end of the week makes a BIG differance in mindset and effectiveness. People want to train with Airsoft? Have at it. Wanna make like you're a badass? Get a life. |
I have this great 6th sense.....I'm seeing sand.....and a vagina.
Doesn't a real MP5 of any flavor start off around $10k? |
Sorry, wrong gender. |
I'm sorry, you're still a little new, so I'll type slower. Quit whining about Air Soft. It has a forum in the War Gaming section. Yes this is a community. No, Air Soft is not a war training simulator, you can not employ the "weapon" for any real purpose. The only thing you could possibly accomplish with an Air Soft BB gun, is shooting someone's eye out. And every bottle of ammo I've ever seen labels them as BB's. Now go wash the sand out of your vagina. |
Sorry, it didn't look like a typo, looked like an English mistake. No matter, I wasn't trying to slam you, just a helpful correction.
I don't know much about what kind of training tool airsoft may or may not be. For COMBAT, I'd guess it is ZERO training, since the ballistics are worthless compared to real firearms. In combat, someone from 200 yards away is often going to kill you before you even see them. Airsoft will NOT teach the kind of movement and use of cover that is necessary. If anything, Airsoft will teach you BAD habits that will get you killed in a real scenario. That said, I believe that airsoft is probably a great training too for drawing, target acquisition, trigger discipline - and possible some CQB stuff (where range is not a big deal). However, I'd still be worried about learning bad habits, sincce walls of a house are generally concealement, NOT cover.
I disagree that BB's are "just another level of the shooting culture" - the shooting culture involves GUNS, not TOYS.
Not my fault you live in a state with shitty gun control laws. Sorry about that. I'm not saying that Airsoft isn't cool and fun, and obviously some TOYS are the closest you can get to some things. Since I am not able to buy a F-22 raptor and fly around in it, the best thing I can get is a plastic scale kit to assemble. However, I am NOT going to tell the guy who owns his own F-104, that my plastic kit is as good as substitute for an F-22 as his real jet plane is - even if neither of them are a "real" F-22. Ultimately, I was commenting on your general point that a toy BB gun is "the next best thing" to a full auto firearm. That is simply not true, no matter how much you want to keep repeating it. The next best thing to a full-auto real firearm is a semi-auto real firearm, NOT a toy. |
^^ Seriously, man, wtf. "Goddammit, airsoft is NOT combat!!! Get a REAL gun!!!"  I have never done it, but I have played paintball quite a few times. Isn't it the same appeal, only with the added realism of the gear? What the fuck is it with people???  Additionally, I would think that full-auto would be fun as hell, but like most, I cant afford it, and Airsoft, in the long run, is much cheaper than bump-firing a semi-auto. Plus, with airsoft, I could peg my friends and everyone goes home at the end of the night. Can't do that with a real gun. I don't know if airsoft is the next best thing to full-auto, but I would probably buy a HKG36 or FNP90 airsoft weapon before I bought those semi-auto-only ripoffs. |
I gotta say, I have played paint ball and man people make it out to be the shit. Paintball is boring when you get hit its pretty much like a rubber band being snapped on your skin. Not that painful at all. Now I have never played airsoft but have been shot in the arm and neck by an asshole friend. It hurts 100x as bad. I was ready to kick has ass and it made a hell of a nice welt. I don't see the problem with airsoft. If airsoft is bad than so is simulation ammo crap and miles and so on. ETA    |
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Well people who play airsoft in general dress up and go overboard to the point that some of them are very fat squeezed into a tight SWAT vest someone in Iraq needs and couldn't get in time before he/she shipped out. Everyone cheats and I was accused of cheating and was dropped by one team. I took up paintball and the military aspect is gone completely. There may be a few rookies in cammies but that is ok. Airsoft players look like a fat millita group. Paintballers do not try to impersonate soldiers, they just like to have fun. I sold a bunch of my airsoft stuff and the first thing I did was went out and got a DM4. I have had so much more fun playing paintball than airsoft. *Airsoft player note the P90... 
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Hehe note the two guys in the background laughing at him 
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We found a shitload of old ass red ryder bb guns in the supply depot in the Marines and ran rampant around Camp Pendleton with gas masks. Pretty damn fun. I play airsoft in our warehouse because it is fun. I own AR-15's because they are fun. Whats wrong with having fun? p.s. I agree that some airsofters think they are sweet. That attitude is not only among airsofters. 85% of males have the same line of thinking. The other 15% wish they had vaginas. |
Not this side of the Pond… In Switzerland a standard MP5 is @$2,000 and an MP5K is $2,700. No restrictions on buying, not even paperwork if you are a Swiss!  Yours from your local friendly Swiss dealer for $2,700 ANdy |
+1 I have several soldiers who have been at one time or another big into paintball/airsoft, and all have the same bad habits of confusing cover and concealment, since in both GAMES they are pretty much the same but in real life much different. Both are also slower to engage at any distance. It took a lot of extra effort to train them away form these habits they had learned. Habits that, in the world of real bullets, leave people dead. |
The airsoft bashing is getting old. We may not all do it but does that make it any less enjoyable. I find it comical how some will say that airsoft is dumb but paintball is TeH wIn...... 
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I don't play airsoft or own anything other than a $15 spring air pistol for playing around in my basement, but I begrudge no one the enjoyment of owning or playing airsoft. It's no different than guys who have RC cars and race them. They can learn alot about real racing from it, but obviously it's not "real racing". It's also cheaper and allows even people who could NEVER enjoy the real thing access to something fun and a near-facsimilie. It's not damaging to real racing, it's just a hobby for people who like to race little cars. Same here. Every time these threads come up, the assbags come on and wail on and on about how airsoft commandos are ruining the site or claiming they're real weapons experts. Where are these commandos? I don't see many on this site. Just a tiny handful of people have ever been like that, and most airsofters are very much aware that airsoft is not real weaponry.....yet the bigotry remains. What galls me is that airsoft isn't guys shooting dildos at each other - it's GUNS!!!! Yes, they shoot plastic BB's, but they're GUNS damnit. Even if they're different, or innacurate, or non-lethal, they're GUNS and part of our hobby. They're not toys - they're not built or marketed or designed for children. The realistic ones are $300, and heavy as the real thing. How is that a toy? My toy pistols were $10 and shot caps. These are not real, but they are clearly not toys. They shoot projectiles, fast, do they not? They look like guns, do they not? Why then is it such a gay-crime to think they're kind of neat? Why is it an affront to a real shooting sport to run around and shoot at each other with these things? Didn't we all do that as kids? How many of us own or owned BB guns? I'll bet every one of us. I just don't get you guys sometimes. You act as if everyone should love guns and understand your fascination with them. You're insulted and indignant when someone attacks our hobby, yet when someone shows interest in something that should compliment our fascination with military weaponry you're the first people to ridicule and denigrate them. If there's something childish and ghey around here, it's "real" gun nuts pissing on other people's interests. |
Amen...Preach it brother. I don't play it but it's only as gay as those who bash it. |
 ohhh dude, you can even see the white BB!!! that pic is sick!!!  Well it seems to me that airsoft can get bloody at times, I wonder if the guy in the first pic got hit in the eye or was just crying???
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Yeah, the easiest way to start an argument at a range is to tell someone your opinion about a gun. These are good for fight-starters: "Revolvers are for wusses", "the 1911 has a problem with the extractor design", "there's no need for a .50 BMG".... Say one of those at a range and I guarantee at least a half-hour discussion. Be careful though, someone's liable to bar the door and grab an axe handle on some of these subjects.
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Those pictures are mostly from games over in the Orient. They play with really fast shooting guns and extremly close ranges. Some of them wear goggles and other don't. I find that insane personally, but to each his own. I have yet to see a wound like that at our teams games. You'd need a gun shooting 450 fps or faster to do that at the ranges we shoot at.
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How about "AIRSOFT IS THE NEXT BEST THING TO SIMUNITIONS" I really wish we could get our hands on that stuff, and use our REAL AR's to fire paint bullets. Seriously, though, anyone here that hates airsoft....What do you recommend for training if you don't have acess to MILES gear?? I'm not supporting Airsoft here, I don't have any Airsoft stuff, but I'm just curious, those that hate is so much....what do you train with? |
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I have never played airsoft, but it seems there could be some LIMITED training use for the guns. They certainly won't do any good for long range training, but would work for practicing room clearing. Dry firing and blanks work for this as well, but I can see the benefit of using something that fires a projectile. Unlike paintballs, airsoft pellets could be swept up, allowing for pracice in places such as schools and gov't buildings that may otherwise be impractical. I think playing for sport is a bit stupid, but I think the same about most sports played by people over 20. |