Posted: 5/5/2004 2:45:14 PM EDT
I posted this as a response in another thread (please don't lock) but I really feel that it's worth putting here, just as a reminder that we're not out of the woods yet:
Allow me to introduce you to HR2038 (House of Representitives) and it's sister S1431 (Senate). These bill would expand the AWB by specifically outlawing:
"The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:
AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, M1 Carbine, Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AUG, Sturm, Ruger Mini-14, Tavor, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz), Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, MPA3, Olympic Arms OA TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, AB-10, Uzi, Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper."
A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a threaded barrel;
(iii) a pistol grip;
(iv) a forward grip; or
(v) a barrel shroud. (a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel)
There goes 97% of the rifles YOU AND I OWN!!!
The current "Grandfather Clause" in the title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code reads:
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.
These 2 bills would change the "Grandfather Clause" in title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code to read:
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.
(2) (A)Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994'.
(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.
The "post-bans" would be "all-ban", and the "pre-bans" would be the only thing allowed.
If this thing goes through, it's lights out! Party's over boys turn them in! The house version has 108 co-sponsers and the senate version has 14. Weak at the moment, but it could pick up steam real quick in a couple of months!!!
The current one only passed by the slimmest of margins because of the sunset clause. I don't think this one will have enough support.
Cold. Dead. Hands.
Strangly, I'm not worried.
I don't care, 'cause I don't own guns. I'm just here for the atmosphere. Guns are icky.
thats when the cache plan takes effect. that will be when i engage in civil disobedience. Personally i feel EVERYONE would have a DUTY as a citizen of this country to do the same.
if that passed there would be a huge run on 6 -8 inch plastic pvc pipe, caps, and glue
Let's not wait for that.
KEEP CALLING YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES!!!!!
CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY THE LAW. PUNISHING LAW ABIDING CITIZENS FOR THE UNRULY AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR OF CRIMINALS, IS PURE MADNESS. THERE CAN BE NO ARGUMENT HERE. ANY ATTEMPT TO ARGUE THIS POINT IS A CLEAR SIGN OF STUPIDITY
Were gonna see a run on M-1 rifles. Go CMP!
You might reasonably presume that is the exact number of idiots in Congress.
[preaching to choir] Ahhhh, grasshopper, but we do. This fact is not lost on the antis. Since they know this, and still attempt to pass this legislation, precisely who do you think is their intended target? [/preaching to choir]
I would predict massive civil disobedience (sp?) Nobody would have much to lose by keeping their rifles.
If you keep them you become a felon and they catch you, you can't own rifles. If you turn them in, you won't own rifles. Same result either way. Only difference is you might have a felony charge against you.
Things are changing, If the NRA gets it's TV or radio station, They will be a very serious force to be feared.
Air America is going belly up because even Liberals don't want to listen to liberal crap.
I don't think it's that bad.
In before the "hey, they can't try to pass a bill that's already failed once" crowd comes in.
I like pie.
WHO'S gonna turn 'em in? I think they're gonna have to come get 'em.
I wouldn't turn in shit.
They want them that damn bad then they are just going to have to come and get them.
I guess I'll be the first to call BS. Nothing about this on GOA's or NRA's web sites. Aren't those the bills that Fienstein(sp?) introduced? I'd give them a snow ball's chance in hell if so. Old news.
Sounds like fun
GOA Website: (scroll down, listed alpha numerically - HR2038)
Not enough? Go to the Library of Congress Legaslative Information website (Thomas):
Under bill number type in HR2038 or S1431
The only thing that I want to do is encourage you not to get too overconfident, or too complacent. I don't want the ban renewed or expanded, but there are alot of people who do, and they are not going to just sit down and shut up. We have to say active and tell our Senators and Representitives that this is VERY important to us, and they will lose our votes if they support the AWB's renewal or expansion.
The day they say turn them in is the day we say MAKE US!!!!!!!!
You haven't been with ARFCOM long enough to have participated in all of the many discussions hear about the AWB. For that reason, I'll take a moment to bring you up to speed:
In the last year, I've had two meetings with my congresswoman...a good conservative Republican. We discussed several items but guns were at the top of my hit parade. She assured me that her house leadership (Hastert/Delay) have made it crystal clear that as long as the Republicans control congress, NO gun bill will reach the president's desk for his signature. Should the weasels in the senate pull a fast one and try to screw us again, their bill still must make it through the house where there is much stronger influence from real Republicans.
I hear what you are saying, and there is always a certain amount of risk...but it isn't happening any time soon.
You want to see another AWB? Vote for Democrats and you will soon see your right eroded...and this one is at the top of their hit parade.
Until then...don't get your panties in a bunch...keep off the tinfoil and keep shooting. We aren't in much danger now.
I dont see Ruger 10/22 on the list, but if they insist I will turn it in as a law obiding citizen and sheep.
BTW, The Molon Labe babe with that ugly ass crowned post ban, oh hell how Id hit that!
Not that I personally would advocate armed rebillion(FWIW if "they" banned all the guns, I'd just take up Archery) but I once read a quote that really impressed me.
"If the time has come that you must bury your guns, the time has come to use them."
Those bills don't stand a snowballs chance in Hades.
...But, they exist for a purpose. The antis will try to debate them, then rewrite/reintoduce them in a watered down version. Then they can say with a straight face, "But we compromised! Why won't you?"
Call your Representatives tomorrow!!!!!! Call them often! Write letters!!!!
I hear ya bro and even though we may joke around you won't find a more active group than this one. We're well aware that the anti-gunners will not stop and you can rest assured we won't either!
There it is. Unfortunatly there are many stupid people around.
You take the names of those 108 in Congress and give money to their opponents.
BTW, The Republicans will lose if these bills passed.
What is all this talk about guns? Ted Kennedy has killed more people than my gun.
Good point - Here's a list of people in Congress who are trying to infringe on your right to keep and bear arms. All of the usual suspects are accounted for (Kenedy, Clinton, Levin, Conyers, Boxer, Schumer, Kerry, Feinstein,and my favorite Shelia Jackson Lee)
House of Representitives (co-sponsers of HR2038):
Rep Abercrombie, Neil - 6/16/2003 [HI-1]
Rep Ackerman, Gary L. - 5/8/2003 [NY-5]
Rep Andrews, Robert E. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-1]
Rep Becerra, Xavier - 7/24/2003 [CA-31]
Rep Berman, Howard L. - 7/24/2003 [CA-28]
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. - 5/8/2003 [NY-1]
Rep Blumenauer, Earl - 5/8/2003 [OR-3]
Rep Brady, Robert - 5/8/2003 [PA-1]
Rep Brown, Corrine - 5/8/2003 [FL-3]
Rep Capps, Lois - 5/19/2003 [CA-23]
Rep Capuano, Michael E. - 5/8/2003 [MA-8]
Rep Cardin, Benjamin L. - 6/3/2003 [MD-3]
Rep Carson, Julia - 5/8/2003 [IN-7]
Rep Case, Ed - 5/8/2003 [HI-2]
Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 7/24/2003 [MO-1]
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 5/8/2003 [MI-14]
Rep Crowley, Joseph - 7/17/2003 [NY-7]
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 5/8/2003 [MD-7]
Rep Davis, Danny K. - 5/8/2003 [IL-7]
Rep DeGette, Diana - 5/21/2003 [CO-1]
Rep Delahunt, William D. - 5/8/2003 [MA-10]
Rep DeLauro, Rosa L. - 5/8/2003 [CT-3]
Rep Deutsch, Peter - 5/19/2003 [FL-20]
Rep Emanuel, Rahm - 5/8/2003 [IL-5]
Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 5/8/2003 [NY-17]
Rep Eshoo, Anna G. - 6/10/2003 [CA-14]
Rep Farr, Sam - 5/8/2003 [CA-17]
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 5/8/2003 [PA-2]
Rep Filner, Bob - 7/8/2003 [CA-51]
Rep Frank, Barney - 5/8/2003 [MA-4]
Rep Gephardt, Richard A. - 10/15/2003 [MO-3]
Rep Gonzalez, Charles A. - 7/8/2003 [TX-20]
Rep Grijalva, Raul M. - 5/8/2003 [AZ-7]
Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 5/8/2003 [IL-4]
Rep Harman, Jane - 5/8/2003 [CA-36]
Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 7/17/2003 [FL-23]
Rep Hoeffel, Joseph M. - 5/8/2003 [PA-13]
Rep Holt, Rush D. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-12]
Rep Honda, Michael M. - 5/8/2003 [CA-15]
Rep Hoyer, Steny H. - 7/25/2003 [MD-5]
Rep Israel, Steve - 7/15/2003 [NY-2]
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 5/8/2003 [IL-2]
Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 5/8/2003 [TX-18]
Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice - 5/8/2003 [TX-30]
Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs - 7/24/2003 [OH-11]
Rep Kennedy, Patrick J. - 5/8/2003 [RI-1]
Rep Kleczka, Gerald D. - 9/10/2003 [WI-4]
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 5/19/2003 [OH-10]
Rep Langevin, James R. - 5/8/2003 [RI-2]
Rep Lantos, Tom - 5/21/2003 [CA-12]
Rep Larson, John B. - 6/3/2003 [CT-1]
Rep Lee, Barbara - 5/8/2003 [CA-9]
Rep Lewis, John - 5/8/2003 [GA-5]
Rep Lipinski, William O. - 5/8/2003 [IL-3]
Rep Lofgren, Zoe - 5/8/2003 [CA-16]
Rep Lowey, Nita M. - 5/8/2003 [NY-18]
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 5/8/2003 [NY-14]
Rep Markey, Edward J. - 5/8/2003 [MA-7]
Rep Matsui, Robert T. - 7/8/2003 [CA-5]
Rep McCollum, Betty - 6/16/2003 [MN-4]
Rep McDermott, Jim - 6/3/2003 [WA-7]
Rep McGovern, James P. - 5/8/2003 [MA-3]
Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 5/8/2003 [MA-5]
Rep Meeks, Gregory W. - 5/19/2003 [NY-6]
Rep Menendez, Robert - 5/8/2003 [NJ-13]
Rep Millender-McDonald, Juanita - 10/2/2003 [CA-37]
Rep Miller, George - 5/19/2003 [CA-7]
Rep Moran, James P. - 5/8/2003 [VA-8]
Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 5/8/2003 [NY-8]
Rep Napolitano, Grace F. - 10/2/2003 [CA-38]
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 5/8/2003 [DC]
Rep Olver, John W. - 5/21/2003 [MA-1]
Rep Owens, Major R. - 5/8/2003 [NY-11]
Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr. - 11/18/2003 [NJ-6]
Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-8]
Rep Pastor, Ed - 9/3/2003 [AZ-4]
Rep Payne, Donald M. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-10]
Rep Price, David E. - 9/3/2003 [NC-4]
Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 5/8/2003 [NY-15]
Rep Rothman, Steve R. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-9]
Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 5/8/2003 [CA-34]
Rep Ruppersberger, C. A. Dutch - 1/20/2004 [MD-2]
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 5/8/2003 [IL-1]
Rep Sabo, Martin Olav - 10/15/2003 [MN-5]
Rep Sanchez, Linda T. - 5/8/2003 [CA-39]
Rep Sanchez, Loretta - 5/8/2003 [CA-47]
Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 5/8/2003 [IL-9]
Rep Schiff, Adam B. - 7/17/2003 [CA-29]
Rep Serrano, Jose E. - 6/10/2003 [NY-16]
Rep Shays, Christopher - 5/8/2003 [CT-4]
Rep Sherman, Brad - 5/21/2003 [CA-27]
Rep Slaughter, Louise McIntosh - 6/23/2003 [NY-28]
Rep Smith, Christopher H. - 5/8/2003 [NJ-4]
Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 5/8/2003 [CA-32]
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 5/8/2003 [CA-13]
Rep Tauscher, Ellen O. - 5/8/2003 [CA-10]
Rep Tierney, John F. - 5/8/2003 [MA-6]
Rep Towns, Edolphus - 5/8/2003 [NY-10]
Rep Van Hollen, Chris - 5/8/2003 [MD-8]
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 5/8/2003 [NY-12]
Rep Waters, Maxine - 5/8/2003 [CA-35]
Rep Watson, Diane E. - 5/8/2003 [CA-33]
Rep Watt, Melvin L. - 9/24/2003 [NC-12]
Rep Waxman, Henry A. - 5/8/2003 [CA-30]
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 5/8/2003 [NY-9]
Rep Wexler, Robert - 5/8/2003 [FL-19]
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 5/8/2003 [CA-6]
Rep Wynn, Albert Russell - 10/17/2003 [MD-4]
Senate (co-sponsers of S1431):
Sen Akaka, Daniel K. - 1/28/2004 [HI]
Sen Boxer, Barbara - 9/25/2003 [CA]
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham - 10/1/2003 [NY]
Sen Corzine, Jon - 7/17/2003 [NJ]
Sen Dodd, Christopher J. - 2/23/2004 [CT]
Sen Durbin, Richard J. - 2/9/2004 [IL]
Sen Feinstein, Dianne - 2/23/2004 [CA]
Sen Kennedy, Edward M. - 2/9/2004 [MA]
Sen Kerry, John F. - 11/21/2003 [MA]
Sen Levin, Carl - 2/9/2004 [MI]
Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. - 9/4/2003 [MD]
Sen Reed, John F. - 9/4/2003 [RI]
Sen Sarbanes, Paul S. - 10/1/2003 [MD]
Sen Schumer, Charles E. - 12/9/2003 [NY]
To conform a society to your ideals, you must first disarm said society...
I think even the morons in washington know better than to pass laws that require turn-ins. They're smarter than that : they know the way to do it is just to slowly phase them out. Like machineguns, one day, very few will own them and they will cost too much for the average man.
How many LEO's would be that stupid to try and take them from all of us? They would need the U.N.
behind them. John F'in Kerry may like that .
These are the people who want to take your country away from you and give it to someone else.
This isn't news...
This thing has been dead in committee since the beginning of the session...
File under D for DEAD guys, it's no threat...
There would be massive civil disobedance like here in California where there are millions of assault weapons with just a few percent registered.
My representative is on there. I better keep a close eye on him
hey, look, christopher dodd is on there. that guy is a huge asshat.
after writing him [several times] to inform him of my stance on the AWB this is the response i get back:
From: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:19 PM
Subject: From Senator Christopher J. Dodd
Dear Mr. .......:
Thank you for contacting me regarding the federal assault weapons ban. I appreciate the benefit of your views on this important issue.
Throughout my career in public service, I have supported a balanced approach to gun regulation that reduces crime while protecting the legitimate interests of law-abiding Americans who own guns for self-defense, hunting, and recreational purposes. I recognize that responsible gun ownership has long been part of America's heritage. At the same time, I believe that it is the obligation of government to pursue responsible policies that protect innocent Americans - particularly children - from gun violence.
As you know, part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act in 1994 prohibits the manufacture, sale, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons. Prior to the ban, assault weapons accounted for more than 17 percent of fatal shootings of police officers, and officers were concerned that the increased use of assault weapons by criminals would force them to carry more powerful, deadlier weapons which would make our communities less safe. As a result, virtually every major national law enforcement organization supported the ban. Since the ban took effect, the number of assault weapons traced to crime has significantly dropped, and violent crime in general has decreased. The ban, however, was passed only for a ten-year period, and is therefore scheduled to expire in 2004 unless it is extended.
I share your concerns about lifting the ban.(NOT EVEN CLOSE) I believe the ban has helped remove from America's streets dangerous weapons whose sole purpose is to take human life. As such, I support an extension of the ban to ensure that these dangerous weapons are kept off our streets. I do not believe that the ban unduly hinders the ability of law-abiding Americans to purchase or use firearms for hunting or recreation; indeed, the ban's definition of an assault weapon is extremely limited, and the ban explicitly exempts 670 hunting rifles and other recreational guns. As you may know, Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) introduced the Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2003 earlier this year. This bill would repeal the sunset date on the assault weapons ban, thus leaving in place the ban on the manufacture of 19 types of military style assault weapons and amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit the importation into the United States of large capacity ammunition feeding devices. You may be assured that I will continue to support responsible gun safety legislation that works to reduce crime and make our communities safer, while protecting the rights of law-abiding Americans who own guns for self-defense, hunting, and other recreational purposes.(YOU MAY BE ASSURED I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT OTHER REPRESENTATIVES DURING ELECTION YEARS)
Again, thank you for contacting me. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if I can be of any further assistance.
CHRISTOPHER J. DODD
United States Senator
if that isn't the biggest bunch of auto-response-contrived-liberal-b.s. barely masked as another government official trying to look out for me and my best interests, i don't know what is.
P.S.: the only comments i added are the comments in caps. the -for the children- statement actually came in the original reply.
P.P.S.: i was so pissed off about the whole "i share your concerns about lifting the ban" comment after making it crystal clear in my original letters that extending the ban was nothing short of treasonous, that i was moved to write another letter telling him what i thought of him...
but it didn't.