[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Fencing (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/1/2008 1:16:54 PM EDT
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Anyone partake in fencing? I've wanted to pick up some sort of armed combat training for a while, in particular one that utilizes a sword. It seems fun and a good way to stay healthy and fit. Also, I'm somewhat obsessed with learning martial arts (I've trained in everything from Muay Thai to Capoeira). I'm curious as to how expensive it is to start up fencing. Also, generally how difficult of a sport it is to get good. ETA: I am NOT interested in fencing for self-defense. That would be ridiculous. I depend on martial arts and firearm training for that. I am interested in it because I hear it is extremely fun and keeps you in shape. |
IIRC fencing is a fancy Nancy boy sport for rich people, other than having to dress like Zoro, its pretty ghey and has no merit other than its a form of entertainmnet. |
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I've been taking my son to Fencing Class for the last 2 years. First thing the instructor said was fencing is NOT a martial art. It's a ritualized combat orginally used to settle matters of honor. You go up against with a broadsword and he will hand you your head. Fencing with Saber can be more interesting, but again it's still just a very fun sport not 'combat training'. |
I'd imagine most any sword fighting would have no merit other than a form of entertainment.... If I want protection I'll stick to my firearm and martial arts training. |
I think I may have not been very clear in my first post. I realize it has absolutely 0 self-defense purpose. So does some of the other 'martial arts' I've taken in the past, such as Capoeira. From what I've heard, however, is that it will improve your reflexes, it is extremely fun, and it keeps you in shape. |
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I did fencing for a while in college. There's nothing like the first time that you make contact with your opponent and the sword bends. I realized that if it hadn't had the safety tip on it, I would have just driven it through his heart. It was a very strange feeling. |
No I was being a smart ass. Its still an Olympic sport so there should be a good following in the sport. heres a link. www.usfencing.org/usfa/ |
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I have taken up Rapier fighting. Similar to fencing. not me in the vid, just the first one I found www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyxXc7tNlkE no you don't have to fall down when hit, they are hamming it up for the video some fighting on a bridge www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTadjSyM8Ns&feature=related its different in a way that its 360 combat and you use Rapiers, bucklers, daggers and can fight two fisted. Foils and Epees and sabers are not used. |
Well, then your problem is clearly that you are insane.  Actually, depending on how "little" kendo we are talking about, I can understand. The first year or so of learning kendo is pretty tedious (especially in a rigorous dojo) - but once you get into the bogu then it gets a lot more fun, and eventually even that katas start to make a lot more sense. |
Heh, by little I didn't mean 1 year...more like 1 week (if that). I never signed up for it. I was taking Karate, and the dojo also offered Kendo. I'd sit in for the class now and then, but never took it very seriously. I was also about 13 at the time. |
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Depends on what part of CA you're in. There are some good clubs in the Bay area. Think the LA area has some good clubs as well, but other than that I think you're pretty much screwed if you want to actually take it seriously. It's just not a sport Americans are very interested in, so it's hard to do it seriously in this country (unelss you're in a few pockets where it's popular, mostly NYC, the Bay Area, and a few smaller areas in between). 1. It's not a martial art per se, but there are some superb athletes that do it. If you hang with the SCA types or casual folks, this isn't really the case. 2. If you do a lot of it, you will have large legs that are asymetrical (your front leg will look very different from your back leg). 3. The 3 events (foil, epee, sabre) are all very different and attract different personalities (I won't go there). 4. It's an expensive sport. Quality gear is expensive, Competition is expensive. 5. If you try and think of it as "sword fighting", you lose. That isn't it at all. It's more like tag with sticks. It's a sport entirely abstracted from its ancestry. If that bothers you, do something else. It's all about tactics, footwork, control and strategy. 6. Getting jabbed with a piece of steel (even one that bends) or getting whipped with one hurts. Expect welts and bruises galore. |
Until some 14 year old girl knocks you on your ass. It's a little more involved than waving long swizzle sticks. Fencing at the local Y is taught as a martial art, and part of the trainnig is done without a "sword". Country kids just had cudgel fights, at least until someone got a knuckle busted. Heads we didn't get too worried about. |
Thank you for the feedback. I'm in San Diego, know of any decent places in the area? |
Then I have no doubt that it WAS really boring. That would particualry suck for a kid.  However, if someone put in equal time - say a year or two - into either kendo or fencing, my position is that kendo is much more fun and exciting, partly because you are really throwing your body into it, and you are all over the space, instead of just facing each other. Much more dynamic and exicting, IMO. |
i would agree. give it an honest try - keeping in mind that the muscles and movements involved may feel completely foreign at first. and because of the strong mental aspect, i guarantee you'll also meet some interesting people along the way. eta. anyone can learn to fence well enough to enjoy it. beyond casual though, you'll need need proper coaching and some genetic assist. best bet would be to find a local club or class that has the equipment and can get you started in the right direction. |
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San Diego Fencing Webpage ETA: I've been out of that game for years and years, and none of the coaches there look familiar, except for those Padgitt folks (name sounds familiar, but I don't think I knew any of them back in the day). |
You did read the rest of my post? I provided the link for the U.S Fencing team, I leave for China in 2 days. I'll bring home the gold!!!  just jerking your chain, I'm an ARFCOMer I already won without even having to compete. The internet is a bitch aint it www.usfencing.org/usfa/ |
Your link fu and humor fu are weak. |
  nevermind
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The best part is when they teach you to jump from the couch to the chair to the desk while holding one hand on your hip and letting out a loud and hearty "Hah Haah" That right there makes it all worth it. seriously though, go do it. You will probably love it. (the fencing, not the hah haah part, though some may like doing that too I suppose) |
Fencing is one of two Western martial arts (you can argue that savat qualfies, but I view it as a subset of boxing). True, it is not useful for self-defense 99.9% of the time, but it does develop skillsets that will help you in self-defense. I.E- knowing how far you are from someone when they are attacking you and how quickly you can cross that distance or how quickly the other guy MIGHT cross that distance. Situational Awareness. Getting used to seeing what cues indicate an attack (tensed muscles, etc). Reaction time. Dexterity. Just for basic equipment you are looking at $150+. If you go whole hog (shoes, pants, etc) expect to pay $300+ depending on your predilection for spending up. Classes are a whole nother thing. You can go to USFA to look for clubs in your area. Also check local colleges and universities to see if they have classes. One last area is you local Parks & Recreation, sometimes they will arrange classes. Expect to see a lot of kids involved. Parents love to hav their kids do something like fencing because it shows how 'cultured' they are. Most of those kids either last 2-3 months and quit, or are driven and will kick your ass. Particularly at larger clubs that have after school programs. No kidding, the Louisville Fencing Center has what amounts to after school programs and there were 12-16 y/o chicks/punks who kicked my ass regularly. One of them even left me bleeding (I wasn't wearing ALL the protective gear). For context: I began fencing at the UK fencing club in 1989 and fenced off and on, helping to grow the EKU fencing club and setting the stage for them to get their own room (happened after I left). I began teaching fencing at EKU in 2002, informally, and re-established the fencing program at Georgetown College in 2003. Gave up my position at Georgetown in 2006 to come to Afghanistan, when I return home I hope to establish a program at KSU in Frankfort, KY. No certifications, no tournaments won. I just love to fence and to get other people to fence with me I have had to create some of my own fencing partners (it hurts when your student beats you ).
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| Funny, I just started last week. I can't understand why some here are saying it would have no self defense applications. It was started from the study of killing people in duels and from what I can see would probably carry over to fighting with a knife. The footwork drills are killing me so far. I did find the pistol grip swords a little strange. |
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I fenced for about 4 years up until about 3 years ago. Epee was my favored flavor... I liked being able to touch anywhere. We'd had discussions about a fencer vs a kendoka. The fencer has the edge with range. My 34" Epee vs a 28" blade (although shinai are longer), combined with a good lunge... I could kill a kendoka before he could get close enough to slash me. Anyway, fencing is fun, and it's VERY intense. MOSTLY below the belt. Your legs will be in good shape, because MOST of fencing is footwork and moving. Strong arms don't benefit you much. Being skinny can be a benefit, though. My best achievements were getting 5 touches against THE Mexican national champion in a 15 touch bout, and getting 14 against a former jr. national champion in a 15 touch bout. I also scored a wicked touch on the top of someone's foot at a tournament. It's great fun, and you can see and do some really wicked moves. It's very rewarding and fun. I'd recommend it. |
Assault swords! Do they have the shoulder thing that goes up?My cousin used to do fencing. Her parents even hosted a kid from France on an exchange program. He was using a pistol gripped sword IIRC |
Because fencing relyies on strict rules, and you only have 1 opponnent who will always come from the same direction. Try parre-repost trick with a thug with a knife and you'll find out that the thug doesn't need 'right of way' to hit you with his blade, then grapple you down. Remember dueling was settling matters of honor - and had rules, there are no rules in a fight for your life. |
Every martial art I have taken had rules. It's doesn't mean I would follow them in a real fight. Any practice is going to help in a fight. |
| Do some research in Western Martial Arts (WMA). These folks are using period combat treatises to recreate authentic fencing styles. The earliest date from the 14th or 15th century and emphasize the longsword while building up to other knightly weapons like sword, poleaxe, etc... There are folks specializing in rapier, smallsword, sidesword, Scottish claymore, etc.... |
The earliest known manual dates from the 13th century. It is a text known as I-33 and is a sword and buckler manual. Two of my associates are leaders in the field of research with that work and I've taught historically-accurate armoured longsword and unarmoured longsword for years. Check out the link I provided above. I also have a blackbelt in Asian Martial Arts and taught that under my Master for about a year but the Western Martial Arts are where my real interests lie. |
That's why I loved Epee. No 'right of way'. Whoever gets the touch first, gets the touch. It's the most like a true form of combat than foil or saber. That, and your ONLY protection was the bell guard. IIRC, Epee was derived from dueling to 'first blood'. Meaning, the first to make the other guy bleed, whether it as running him through the heart, or pricking his big toe, won the bout. |
I think that if you put a kendoka against a fencer, most likely (in a hypothetical real life contest), both would "die". The difference is that the fencer would consider that a loss, but the kendoka would consider it a win! Also keep in mind that there is a thrusting move in kendo (tsuki - a stright lunge at the throat), and there are many attacks that start with a deflection of the opponent's blade - where the added strength of the katana might damage or break the epee. Also, most of the kendo cuts do not involve much "slashing" at all - the moves designed to cut the torso do involve some, but the main cuts to the head can be very fast and narrow. So I could imagine a pretty straighforward kendo attack - a hard strike on the epee downwards, followed by an immediate attack forward (throwing the body inside the range of the point) and cutting the head - that would suceed relatively well. So I can actually imagine several ways in which a kendoka would defeat a fencer, but I've never trained with fencers, so I could be completely wrong . The way I see these "comparisons" is that usually both sides don't really have a deep understanding of the opposing style, and tend to underestimate it.
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Truth is, it's a dumb comparison... boxing vs. TKD or something. In a real fight, it's not about the style, it's who is the better fighter. Fencing isn't a fight, it's a sport. Some of the skills may carry over (like control of the distance, timing, etc.), but it's simply not a fighting skill, no more than rodeo skills are cowboy skills (don't get me started on the whole "rodeo cowboys" rant). The sport is abstracted from its origins. |
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My wife and I did saber for a bit and then settled on foil. Our coach had been the Ukranian national team coach and he knew how to teach very well. He didn't mind losing a match to a student for the purpose of training, but when he and his wife were fencing it was an art. $150 to $200 per fencer is enough to get started, assuming you decide upon a single style (epee, saber, foil) to outfit youself for. The equipment is a little different for each when it comes to the electrics, and obviously the weapon itself. Fencing can be as demanding as you wish. I highly recommend it for someone who wants a high intensity exercise and has an interest. Being left handed can be a great advantage if you know how to use it. It will kick you butt if you're out of shape, but any good high intensity sport will do that. |
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I did Fencing and Kendo for many years and one of my good friend's son is an olympic medal hopeful. Both are great, I personally like Kendo more as it is more aggressive and every bit as technical. Both are good forms of discipline and well rounded fitness development. MOST areas have clubs and most clubs enjoy having people come by and observe, mingle ask questions and many will even either let you use a set of gear or will if you are really going for it help you buy good used gear. Kendo is not cheap, the protective gear (Bogu) runs from expensive to really expensive. To start off a bokken is really cheap and you can borrow gear at most clubs. I went a bit overboard and bought a very expensive sword. 5K plus to do single Kata and Iaido. I do Kata and Iaido more then Kendo now since it is much more meditative and less time consuming as far as driving, getting geared up etc. The cool thing about Kendo, Kata etc is that it is a multi discipline sport so you spend a lot of time doing lots of different things. If you want to just study Iaido you can spend yrs doing those simple draw/wipe/return drills before you get really good. Kata can be done alone or with an "opponent." since the object is NOT to hit each other with a sharp sword that is best left up to really good swordsmen. Here in California there are tons of schools, orgs, clubs, etc. Especially in the Bay area or down south in LA area. Generally Kendo types tend to be very welcoming and helpful. Some fencing teams can be a bit snobby. it also blends well with Aikido so many clubs or dojos offer that as well. |
LOL ok John Wayne |
Kendo boring? you were doing something wrong. If you find Kendo boring you will definitely find fencing boring there is much more action in a Kendo practice session |