User Panel
Posted: 8/2/2002 3:40:44 AM EDT
By cathy murphy Herald/review NACO, Ariz. - U.S. Customs Service agents were acting on information that Naco businessman Ernie Rogers is involved in drug trafficking when they served two search warrants on his business and home Thursday. Friday, the agency's public information officer, Vince Iglio, confirmed that agents seized $193,000 in cash, a gun collection, all the business records and numerous photographs at Rogers' Border Service. Iglio said no drugs were found in the business or the Rogers home. Rogers, a prominent businessman and civic leader in this border community, denies any ties to drug trafficking. Rogers said he kept his life savings in a safe at his business. Rogers said he bought his first tow truck in 1975 and has sold 286 vehicles since then. He said he had all of the paperwork in his office. He said the money he made from the sale of the vehicles went into the savings account or was used to build his new house. Asked why kept so much money in his safe, Rogers said he doesn't trust anybody, including bankers. Rogers said the federal seizure meant he couldn't pay his employees or make his payments into the bank account he keeps to show that he is paying his payroll taxes. Thursday, following the federal agency's raids, Rogers had complained that his employees and a customer were handcuffed and detained by the agents. Friday, Iglio said it is standard procedure to handcuff people who are uncooperative at a crime scene and to have them lie face down on the ground. He said it is for the safety of the agents and any individuals at the scene of suspected criminal activity. Rogers claims his employees were scared and offered no resistance. Rogers was not arrested following the search. His son David, 34, a former U.S. Border Patrol officer, was taken into custody for allegedly damaging federal property by allowing a flagpole he was removing from the exterior wall of the business to hit a Customs Service vehicle and denting it. View Quote check out the last paragraph, the guy's son was arrested for denting a fedgoon car with a flagpole? WTF!? When is the last time you've seen someone "taken into custody" for giving you a door ding in the parking lot? these siezure laws are total bullshit what purpose do they serve? how does the argument that they are constitutional go? I'd like to hear that one. |
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Ever notice that it's always the drug thing?
Hey, Federales! Get a new "acceptable false charges" list! |
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Remember back 5 - 6 years ago, the "new" anti-terror law they were considering (god only knows if they snuck it through), but damaging government property would warrant the DEATH penalty.
Sure, I can see it now, the ATF comes to arrest you for having 1 to many bullets in your arsenal, they face slam you into the car because you ask to speak to your loawyer, your tooth (while shattering) scratches the paint on the ATF car, bang, hang him by the neck! |
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All federal law enforcement is becoming a bunch of JBT's.
"fuck the police"-NWA c-rock |
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Quoted: So now it is illegal to keep CASH? What a bunch of B.S.!! View Quote Guess I'm in compliance with the law then since I don't have any... |
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I hate to admit it, but during the Reagan years, I was for the seizure laws, against real drug dealers. But now I realize that I was wrong. These laws have been perverted and abused. And they still don't put the dealers behind bars. As a matter of fact, I think they screw up just enough, that the case gets thrown out, then they can wait a short time and arrest and seize the same dealer again.
But the seizure of large amounts of cash, just because it is a large amount of cash? Please!!!! Picture this, I hate banks and travelers checks. So I am headed to the BRC and I have $5K for purchases and expenses. Plus I am transporting a couple of firearms, which I intend to shoot while I am there. Along with a couple thousand rounds of ammo. I am pulled over by Barney for going 56MPH in a 55MPH zone, some where in MO (it does happen!) and officer Fife decides he would like to see what I might be smuggling in my SUV with Colorado plates. So lets see we have probable cause according to officer Fife: 1: Speeding around 2AM on a Wed nite 2: Out of state license plates 3: Evil SUV Upon the search he discovers said cash, guns and ammo. All are seized, I am arrested and sit in some rinky dink cell for a couple of days until the judge sobers up enough to hold an arraignment. By this time I have contacted my lawyer (Eric the Hun) And Eric is able to get me released on bail and ultimately get the charges dismissed on a technicallity of illegal search and seizure. But by this time my guns have been "destroyed" and the cash has already been sent to the Multi jurisdictional drug task force, and been split among the agency's involved, never to be seen by me again, even though the charges have been dropped. Yes I love how we persecute the innocent, while the crooks keep going, just like the enegizer bunny. My rant is finished for now. |
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There is always three sides to every story. However the facts dont lie. If there where no drugs they should have left the premiss. If this is true then we are all in serious trouble. Our founding fathers new that any government left to itself can't be trusted. This is the only reason I believe our founding fathers instituted the right to bear arms. Who gives a darn about hunting laws or rights to bear arms for sporting purposes. Yea a gun is fun to shoot, and I only shoot at inanimate objects, however a gun is meant for one end purpose...TO KILL. For this purpose I believe the Founding Fathers demanded we have the right to bear arms. They new these kind of things would happen in time...and sooner than later if we did not have the means (weapons) to protect ourselves from enemies within our boarders...even if those enemies turned out to be ourselves.
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Quoted: I hate to admit it, but during the Reagan years, I was for the seizure laws, against real drug dealers. But now I realize that I was wrong. . View Quote Sad to say, but The Gipper is to blame for all this. A so-called conservative, Ronaldus Maximus is to blame for a HUGE increase in the sphere of gov't. No worries, thedave. You were able to think and learn. Two things that will NEVER happen in gov't. |
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I guess I will wait to hear more information before passing judgement on whether this guy is guilty or innocent. If he is a dope smuggler/pusher then he deserves what he gets. I am sure the Feds have SOME??? evidence to suggest that he is or they wouldn't been able to get warrant.
It is kind of funny that on this board, nearly everyone assumes automaticaly that the Feds are running amock again whenever they read someone is arrested. As inept as they are, they do occasionaly arrest genuine bad guys. |
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Hey Monkeyman, when did you stop beating your wife?
Yeah, see? They just have to say someone is doing something, and we are willing to wait until the innocent party can clear hhimself, some things you just can't prove, like a negative. So why don't we take all your money, and any tangible hard goods you have, that is until you can prove you have stopped beating your wife.... (To the best of my knowledge, moinkeyman does not beat his wife now, nor has he ever beat his wife, nor do I know if he is now married or has ever been married, it is purely a point being made, not to be construed with any actual actionsmonkey man may or may not have been engaged in now or in the past.) |
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How can they seize this guys cash and property because they "know" he is a drug trafficer, but they don't actually arrest him?? Is that going to be the new thing? Break the speed limit and they come take your refridgerator. Double park and they come take your television and piggy bank. WTF?
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Unless I missed something, this guy hasn't been in a court yet, hasn't had a trial, and hasn't been found guilty of anything. Soooooooo... give the guy his freakin money back.
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You guys miss the point, they haven't arrested the man, they have arrested the money.
You telling me you don't know this much about RICO? You are not even involved in a RICO seizure, they take what they want, and it is up to your cash, your car, your home etc to prove itself innocent of any wrongdoing. You have no standing in the matter. |
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I should correct that, the standing you may have is in a resisting arrest warrant. If you get in there way when they are trying to effect an arrest on your property (be it cash or hard goods) then you will be charged with resisting arrest.
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Quoted: You guys miss the point, they haven't arrested the man, they have arrested the money. . View Quote AND if they find ANY trace of drugs on it, its their's. I seem to remember a report that indicated some outrageous % of money (like 50%) had traces of cocaine / narcotics on it. Bub-bye cash. I dare say it AIn't a coincidence this guy, with a safe full of cash, was their target. Can you say 10,000% tax increase for this poor guy???? The solution? 1776. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You guys miss the point, they haven't arrested the man, they have arrested the money. . View Quote AND if they find ANY trace of drugs on it, its their's. I seem to remember a report that indicated some outrageous % of money (like 50%) had traces of cocaine / narcotics on it. Bub-bye cash. I dare say it AIn't a coincidence this guy, with a safe full of cash, was their target. Can you say 10,000% tax increase for this poor guy???? The solution? 1776. View Quote Last I heard was that 99% of money would show traces for narcotics. The 1% is the stuff that hasn't left the mint yet. It is theft, plain and simple. The agents names have to be on the reports, it is up to this guy to effect some personal change. If this happens often enough, they may try other forms of revenue generating schemes. |
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Quoted: The agents names have to be on the reports, it is up to this guy to effect some personal change. If this happens often enough, they may try other forms of revenue generating schemes. View Quote Bulldoze their houses! |
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Good thing about this, is that this guy is still alive. The real battle will be fought in court. If I were him, I will get a damn good lawyer, sue, and who knows...Without a probable cause or reason, the Feds will loose.
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Quoted: Good thing about this, is that this guy is still alive. The real battle will be fought in court. If I were him, I will get a damn good lawyer, sue, and who knows...Without a probable cause or reason, the Feds will loose. View Quote Suprisingly, the cost to bring this kind of case to court is...(drum roll please0... 200K So who really loses? |
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Like I said earlier...We are supposed to run our government, but in this case and many in the past our government runs us...
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Quoted: You guys miss the point, they haven't arrested the man, they have arrested the money. You telling me you don't know this much about RICO? You are not even involved in a RICO seizure, they take what they want, and it is up to your cash, your car, your home etc to prove itself innocent of any wrongdoing. You have no standing in the matter. View Quote |
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I expect more of people on this board than to assume one set of facts over another, just because its the Federales. Seriously, shouldn't WE more than anyone else, appreciate that the truth isn't always the first set of published facts?
Feinstein MUST have been right when she said that all guns are evil. Schumer MUST be right to want complete bans. They said it first, right? THey MUST be right. Come on people, be a little more intelligent than what you're showing here. |
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So Balzac, are you defeninding the use of RICO in *ANY* circumstance?
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I'll venture to say most of the time RICO targets real criminals.
The problem with it is the times it is used to seize property from law-abiding Americans with no due process whatsoever, no arrest, no trial, no conviction, nothing. And you'll never get your property back. You could lose everything based on bogus information from an informant who you'll never know the identity of. RICO is unconstitutional IMHO. |
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Is everyone here missing something?
Everything was seized pursuant to a search warrant. This was something explicitly allowed in the Constitution. Search warrants on the federal side are usually much harder to get than your average local search warrant. And in order for the feds to keep the money, or any other property they seize, they will have to prove in court that there is an affirmative link between the money and the alleged criminal enterprise. Should a criminal be allowed to keep the profits from their criminal enterprise? Hell no. As far as the cash having traces of drugs on it goes, I have heard of that, and so has your prosecutors and judges. They will not be able to keep the money just because it has traces of drugs. They will have to show an affirmative link between the money and some type of felony activity, in court. As far as the prime suspect not being arrested, that is actually fairly common during the service of search warrants; often, the search warrant is based on PC for lesser offenses and the evidence gained from the search is used to gain the information needed for an indictment. And as far as Junior getting popped goes, it sounds like he was being an idiot. Stupidity generally isn't a jailable offense, but stupidity that dents the door on a government vehicle is. If he just would have kept his mouth shut and stayed out of the agent's way, he would have been fine. As a "former" Border Patrol Agent, he should have known better. Makes you wonder about why he was "former." Maybe some of you folks need to put a fresh layer of aluminum foil on those hats. Don't you know that the radiation from the mind control rays can break down its protective properties over time? |
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i expected that they would at least burn the
buisness down. isn't this common procedure?[pyro] |
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Quoted: So now it is illegal to keep CASH? What a bunch of B.S.!! View Quote I believe it is a fedgoon felony to have more than $10K in cash in your possession. Airports have sensors that detect the magnetic stripes in cash in your pocket as you walk down the hall and can tell how much you are carrying. Don't know if there is a portable sensor tho'. |
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natez..Your right.The Feds never screw up, never do unecessary harm, and we're all paranoid!
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Quoted: Quoted: So now it is illegal to keep CASH? What a bunch of B.S.!! View Quote I believe it is a fedgoon felony to have more than $10K in cash in your possession. Airports have sensors that detect the magnetic stripes in cash in your pocket as you walk down the hall and can tell how much you are carrying. Don't know if there is a portable sensor tho'. View Quote No, it's illegal to deposit more than 10k without the bank reporting it to the feds. And the security thread is mylar or something, certainly not magnetic. I'd love to see a credible source to support the idea that there are sensors available to read how much cash we carry. Is someone willing to follow this case and let us know if this guy is in fact not guilty as everybody seems to assume? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So now it is illegal to keep CASH? What a bunch of B.S.!! View Quote I believe it is a fedgoon felony to have more than $10K in cash in your possession. Airports have sensors that detect the magnetic stripes in cash in your pocket as you walk down the hall and can tell how much you are carrying. Don't know if there is a portable sensor tho'. View Quote No, it's illegal to deposit more than 10k without the bank reporting it to the feds. And the security thread is mylar or something, certainly not magnetic. I'd love to see a credible source to support the idea that there are sensors available to read how much cash we carry. Is someone willing to follow this case and let us know if this guy is in fact not guilty as everybody seems to assume? View Quote I think I have it correct. Know for a fact you cannot depart or enter the US with more than $10K in your possession. First time I became aware of this was about ten years ago when a friend went to Las Vegas. The new airport had just opened. As he was walking down the hall he was stopped by the ubiquitous Men In Black Suits and ushered into a side room. He was ordered to present all the cash he was carrying. He had $7700 if memory serves. He asked how the suits knew and they informed him of the statute and inferred they could count the money in his pocket. BTW this guy is not flashy nor does he visit LV with any regularity. I found it amusing at the time they stopped him on his way TO LV. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So now it is illegal to keep CASH? What a bunch of B.S.!! View Quote I believe it is a fedgoon felony to have more than $10K in cash in your possession. Airports have sensors that detect the magnetic stripes in cash in your pocket as you walk down the hall and can tell how much you are carrying. Don't know if there is a portable sensor tho'. View Quote No, it's illegal to deposit more than 10k without the bank reporting it to the feds. And the security thread is mylar or something, certainly not magnetic. I'd love to see a credible source to support the idea that there are sensors available to read how much cash we carry. Is someone willing to follow this case and let us know if this guy is in fact not guilty as everybody seems to assume? View Quote I think I have it correct. Know for a fact you cannot depart or enter the US with more than $10K in your possession. First time I became aware of this was about ten years ago when a friend went to Las Vegas. The new airport had just opened. As he was walking down the hall he was stopped by the ubiquitous Men In Black Suits and ushered into a side room. He was ordered to present all the cash he was carrying. He had $7700 if memory serves. He asked how the suits knew and they informed him of the statute and inferred they could count the money in his pocket. BTW this guy is not flashy nor does he visit LV with any regularity. I found it amusing at the time they stopped him on his way TO LV. View Quote First, you said it's a felony to possess more than $10K. Not true, and you'll have to prove that assertion. Again, I think you're confusing possession with the need to report larger than $10k deposits. Second, you can take our or bring in as much money as you want, you just have to declare it if it's more than $10k. Money and Other Monetary Instruments You may bring into or take out of the country, including by mail, as much money as you wish. But if it's more than $10,000, you'll need to report it to Customs. Ask the Customs officer for the Currency Reporting Form (CF 4790) (PDF). The penalties for not complying can be quite severe. " View Quote U.S. Customs website [url]http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/travel.htm[/url] Third, those security strips are not magnetic, nor readable, AFAIK. Can you prove otherwise? Maybe they stopped him going into Vegas because they figured there would be nothing left afterwards? [;D] |
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Quoted: Is everyone here missing something? Everything was seized pursuant to a search warrant. This was something explicitly allowed in the Constitution. Search warrants on the federal side are usually much harder to get than your average local search warrant. And in order for the feds to keep the money, or any other property they seize, they will have to prove in court that there is an affirmative link between the money and the alleged criminal enterprise. Should a criminal be allowed to keep the profits from their criminal enterprise? Hell no. As far as the cash having traces of drugs on it goes, I have heard of that, and so has your prosecutors and judges. They will not be able to keep the money just because it has traces of drugs. They will have to show an affirmative link between the money and some type of felony activity, in court. As far as the prime suspect not being arrested, that is actually fairly common during the service of search warrants; often, the search warrant is based on PC for lesser offenses and the evidence gained from the search is used to gain the information needed for an indictment. View Quote No, there was no pretense of anything here but confiscation. They do not need probable cause, to get your money back that they steal from you it is reqauired that you put up a bond in excess of 150% of the cash value of the property that was arrested. The bond is available through one organization and they do not operate as bail bondsman do, they require 100% coverage on the bond. (no 10% here). So unless your family/friends can come up with 150% of the value of your property, you can not even sue to get it back. If it is parceled out to any organizations before you can sue to have it returned to you, you forfeit it. Any amount of cash is subject to seizure, based on probable cause, any tangible goods are subject to siezure again, based on probable cause. Probable cause can be officer suspicion or a broken tail light. I feel much safer. |
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This is pretty slick of the govt.,first you point an accusing finger ,then you take his cash from him,then you don't arrest him,now he has no money to hire a decent lawyer(if there is such a thing,LOL)so you are screwed ,case closed.
This is how people end up losing it and walking into a fed building with semi auto's blazing ,and they will say "gun nut on unprovoked rampage"news at 11. |
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I've got a 68 year old customer that use to be all for this War on Drugs, until his 1998 Cadillac was confiscated from him during a traffic stop.
Aparently they thought he had been drinking because he was driving 35 in a 45 and swerved a few times. Guess the LEO had a good nose on him becasue he smelled something. Called the K-9 unit and the dog lit up on the ash tray. There was nothing in it. ...and he blew a .003. I blieve .04 is the limit now days, .037 below the limit. Only thing he can figure is that he had let his 19 year old grandson use the car about 5 hours prior. They took his car from him because it had traces of drug residue. They didn't arrest him, or charge him and he never went to court. He was told if he wanted the car back he would have to take them to court and prove that the car was not used to traffic drugs. I believe this man because after he told me about what happened, his lawyer came and spoke to the local Libertarian Party and this was one of his stories. After it was all over with, I went up to him and told him I knew exactly who he was talking about and in a not so certian way confirmed it was the same person. His lawyer advised him to just let the car go. It would have ended up costing the man $75,000 to get back a $25,000 car. The problem with all this RICO stuff is that it promotes corruption among the LEO's. This was just covered the other night on John Stossel's "War on Drugs" episode. |
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Oh yeah, it's not illegal to have more than $10k on you or to take it in or out of the country as long as you claim it.
However, it was our very own GA Senator Max Cleland that introduced a bill that WOULD HAVE made it illegal to have more than $10k on you on federal or state highways, bus stoppes, airports, etc. Fortunately it didn't come to a vote or it didn't pass one. |
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Quoted: First, you said it's a felony to possess more than $10K. Not true, and you'll have to prove that assertion. Again, I think you're confusing possession with the need to report larger than $10k deposits. Second, you can take our or bring in as much money as you want, you just have to declare it if it's more than $10k. Money and Other Monetary Instruments You may bring into or take out of the country, including by mail, as much money as you wish. But if it's more than $10,000, you'll need to report it to Customs. Ask the Customs officer for the Currency Reporting Form (CF 4790) (PDF). The penalties for not complying can be quite severe. " View Quote U.S. Customs website [url]http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/travel.htm[/url] Third, those security strips are not magnetic, nor readable, AFAIK. Can you prove otherwise? Maybe they stopped him going into Vegas because they figured there would be nothing left afterwards? [;D] View Quote The point about declaring any amount over $10K may be correct. We have a "Drug Interdiction Task Force" operating in my county that confiscates money all the time. Some of this money is confiscated simply on possession, when there is no other reason. This Task Force is Federally funded with a very ambiguous chain of command, responsibility and authority but their money comes from DC. I'll work on the sensor thing and get back. |
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Quoted: Is everyone here missing something? Everything was seized pursuant to a search warrant. This was something explicitly allowed in the Constitution. Search warrants on the federal side are usually much harder to get than your average local search warrant. And in order for the feds to keep the money, or any other property they seize, they will have to prove in court that there is an affirmative link between the money and the alleged criminal enterprise. Should a criminal be allowed to keep the profits from their criminal enterprise? Hell no. As far as the cash having traces of drugs on it goes, I have heard of that, and so has your prosecutors and judges. They will not be able to keep the money just because it has traces of drugs. They will have to show an affirmative link between the money and some type of felony activity, in court. As far as the prime suspect not being arrested, that is actually fairly common during the service of search warrants; often, the search warrant is based on PC for lesser offenses and the evidence gained from the search is used to gain the information needed for an indictment. And as far as Junior getting popped goes, it sounds like he was being an idiot. Stupidity generally isn't a jailable offense, but stupidity that dents the door on a government vehicle is. If he just would have kept his mouth shut and stayed out of the agent's way, he would have been fine. As a "former" Border Patrol Agent, he should have known better. Makes you wonder about why he was "former." Maybe some of you folks need to put a fresh layer of aluminum foil on those hats. Don't you know that the radiation from the mind control rays can break down its protective properties over time? View Quote Sorry, but this time, you're full of sh**. I would have just said 'incorrect' but you made that aluminum foil remark, showing how out of touch with reality you really are, here. Why don't you get off the street until you know what you're talking about? Maybe you could benefit from some re-education of the topic. Federal Seizure law puts the burden of proof on the victim to show that the seized property was NOT used in the alleged illegal activity in question. |
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Quoted: And the security thread is mylar or something, certainly not magnetic. View Quote It is Mylar. It is also magnetic. In the 1970's I spent considerable time working with a company that made magnetically programmable Mylar strips. The company was Graham Magnetics and they made a computer memory product called [b]"magnetic tape"[/b]. Or you might remember those things you used to put in your tape player. That is magnetized Mylar strips. I'm working to find out what the term "Dual threshold magnetic detection" means. It's used on currency sorters and counters made by companies like Magner. |
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Sweep, thanks for posting that story about the 68-year old grandfather. That's just one of many horror stories I've heard. A couple years ago, I read a website with some outrageous asset forfeiture stories. I don't remember if this is the one I'm thinking of but I found some more here:
[url=http://www.libertarianworld.com/Property-Seizure-Rights.html]Libertarian World: Seizure Fever: The War on Property Rights[/url] |
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Anybody who hasn't read this piece of actual journalism as it use to be (factual, unbiased) should grab some coffee, sit down, and open their mind.
[url]http://www.kcstar.com/projects/drugforfeit/[/url] |
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Quoted: Sorry, but this time, you're full of sh**. I would have just said 'incorrect' but you made that aluminum foil remark, showing how out of touch with reality you really are, here. Why don't you get off the street until you know what you're talking about? Maybe you could benefit from some re-education of the topic. Federal Seizure law puts the burden of proof on the victim to show that the seized property was NOT used in the alleged illegal activity in question. View Quote Okay PRK, your little "comment" was uncalled for. Why don't you keep it clean. Did you read the article? The stuff was seized pursuant to a warrant. Also, remember that Seizure laws have changed in the last several years. There has to be an affirmative link between the property seized and a criminal offense. Burden of proof is on the Prosecution," who has to prove (albeit at a lower standard, preponderance of evidence) that the property in question was the proceeds from illicit activity. As far as "re-education" goes, how much training on search and seizure do you have? How many search warrants have you written? How much property have you ever seized from someone? What the heck do you really KNOW about this subject matter? If all you "know" is what you read on the Internet, then your education in this subject matter is sorely lacking. I have professional training on this (as recently as last month), I have written and served search warrants, and I have seized property, both pursuant to a warrant and without, using warrantless seizure exceptions defined by case law and agency policy. There can be abuses of this. The biggest ones were in roadside seizures of cash with no affirmative link to illegal activity, which was tantamount to sanctioned theft. Several rural agencies got their rear ends handed to them in court over this kind of activity, and rightfully so, but this situation isn't even close. This situation regards the seizure of property pursuant to a warrant, and is jsut plain different. If you don't get that, then maybe you do need a couple more layers of foil. BTW, the link you posted was completely full of crap. |
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Quoted: Quoted: And the security thread is mylar or something, certainly not magnetic. View Quote It is Mylar. It is also magnetic. In the 1970's I spent considerable time working with a company that made magnetically programmable Mylar strips. The company was Graham Magnetics and they made a computer memory product called [b]"magnetic tape"[/b]. Or you might remember those things you used to put in your tape player. That is magnetized Mylar strips. I'm working to find out what the term "Dual threshold magnetic detection" means. It's used on currency sorters and counters made by companies like Magner. View Quote Sure, I remember mono (!) reel-to-reel and 8-tracks even! But then, I also remember push-button transmissions on cars, too! I couldn't find anything on the security strips being "readable" on a quick search of the internet. It seems beyond our technology to be able to detect, read, sort and parse the data contained on the strips. It's daunting to do it reliably at contact distances at times, let alone from conversational distances or further out. What's the relationship between magnetic field strength and distance? Isn't it inversely related? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Sorry, but this time, you're full of sh**. I would have just said 'incorrect' but you made that aluminum foil remark, showing how out of touch with reality you really are, here. Why don't you get off the street until you know what you're talking about? Maybe you could benefit from some re-education of the topic. Federal Seizure law puts the burden of proof on the victim to show that the seized property was NOT used in the alleged illegal activity in question. View Quote Okay PRK, your little "comment" was uncalled for. Why don't you keep it clean. Did you read the article? View Quote [b]I[/b] did. The stuff was seized pursuant to a warrant. View Quote Warrant to do exactly what? Please post a copy of it. I'm interested in whether the warrant specifically named the cash in question. Surely you don't mean that as long as there a warrant to arrest someone, or search for /seize some (other) evidence, that ANYTHING that happens in the process is OK? If that were true, there wouldn't be a body of law dealing with exclusion of evidence, would there? Also, remember that Seizure laws have changed in the last several years. There has to be an affirmative link between the property seized and a criminal offense. Burden of proof is on the Prosecution," who has to prove (albeit at a lower standard, preponderance of evidence) that the property in question was the proceeds from illicit activity. View Quote Sure about that? Can they just claim it's "traceable"? Also, can the person be found "not guilty", but still lose the property in question? Or is it automatically returned to the place and person it was taken from? Without needing a hearing & lawyer? As far as "re-education" goes, how much training on search and seizure do you have? How many search warrants have you written? How much property have you ever seized from someone? What the heck do you really KNOW about this subject matter? If all you "know" is what you read on the Internet, then your education in this subject matter is sorely lacking. View Quote He did not claim to be an expert, but was deflating your comment. We could all benefit from better knowledge not only of the law, but also of how it gets used and ab-used in real life. I found this on the internet: [url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/981.html[/url] [url]http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/982.html[/url] Seems like a good start. Notice all the protections for you, citizens, and your musket. I have professional training on this (as recently as last month), I have written and served search warrants, and I have seized property, both pursuant to a warrant and without, using warrantless seizure exceptions defined by case law and agency policy. View Quote ..., but this situation isn't even close. This situation regards the seizure of property pursuant to a warrant, and is jsut plain different. If you don't get that, then maybe you do need a couple more layers of foil. BTW, the link you posted was completely full of crap. View Quote If it was [b]completely[/b] full of crap, why don't you present your complete analysis proving wrong all the factual statements in just [b]one[/b] of those articles? |
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