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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
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Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:01:02 PM EST
On some of the deliveries the outside box says "for law enforcement use." On some it says "for law enforcement use only".

I found that amusing. Have not cracked things open and talked to dude to see what box says what.

On some of the 40s&w hst I got earlier this year maybe it says for law enforcement use and is 50rd boxes.

The "law enforcement use only" makes me chuckle somewhat.

While I agree something comparable can probably be found at reasonable prices or for a bit you can chase all the vendors who have hst and get the old prices, I expect this pricing to be the new norm.

I have enough in hand I am fine and dandy. I have more than I need, so friends and what not will also be fine and dandy. I plan to keep an eye on things and see how the future goes and if I feel it is worth the hassle might get some more later on a sale or if found on a dusty shelf someplace.

A year ago, I figured buy some here and buy some there and do not worry about it.

Right now I am wondering if I will find any hst in any caliber at under 65cpr a year from now.
Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:02:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
Speaking to the QC on Golden Saber, I simply don't trust it, or anything newer Remington makes, at all.

Had a chrono out last fall and was testing various loads through my suppressed Scorpion SBR (I'm the dude that does the big velocity tests in the ammo section). The first 5 rounds were subsonic (around 1050fps). The sixth round had a supersonic crack and registered 1268fps! It seized up the gun and a part was rattling around inside which ended my day early. It turned out to be a broken disconnector from what could only be an overcharged round.

My personal experience with Remington ammo is as follows:

Their .22 "Golden Bullet" bulk packs absolutely suck. Inconsistent velocity, FTF, FTE, inaccurate. Just...no.

Their 9mm Golden Saber broke my Scorpion.

Several rounds from two different boxes of 7mm mag 150gr Core-Lokt would not chamber in two different, "known good" 7mm mag chambers. One of these rounds caused a missed opportunity for my dad on a 10pt buck, which is why we test chambered two full boxes in two different rifles.

Two rounds of .30-06 "Core-Lokt" did not fire out of my brother's hunting rifle (What's the loudest sound in the woods? The *click* of a firing pin). Luckily the third round fired and he took a 130lb doe on the run (instead of a nice, easy broadside shot on a stationary target.)

I'm as pissed as the next guy about Vista's stance on HST. That said, I would pay triple the price for HST if Golden Saber, or any of their ammo for that matter, were the only alternative available to me.

YMMV and all that.
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Agreed, exactly the kind of shit I meant by "Remington is shit". I hate their ammo. Their subsonic 300 was a disaster too from what I read.
Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:10:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 762AR25:

Agreed, exactly the kind of shit I meant by "Remington is shit". I hate their ammo. Their subsonic 300 was a disaster too from what I read.
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It was in 2013 when I tried it. I had a 16" rifle and it was hit and miss whether they'd be subsonic. Their accuracy would be more properly described as a pattern instead of a group. Never bothered to try them again after switching to a 10.5". I was already reloading at that point and $1/ea was way too high.
Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:12:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Naporter:

It was in 2013 when I tried it. I had a 16" rifle and it was hit and miss whether they'd be subsonic. Their accuracy would be more properly described as a pattern instead of a group. Never bothered to try them again after switching to a 10.5". I was already reloading at that point and $1/ea was way too high.
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I saw reports on another forum (300 blk specific) that bullets just fell out of cases dumping powder into the magazine/rifle, bullets not seated straight, etc.
Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:33:24 PM EST
I'm not a fan of Remingtons non duty grade stuff, but the GS has been used by citizens and LE for years. I don't think there's any inherent issue in the GS line and could find anecdotal issues with almost any load.

That said, I'm gonna shoot 200 rounds out of the case I bought and inspect the other 800. If no issues, having it in the stash won't keep me up at night.
Link Posted: 10/30/2018 10:46:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 762AR25:

I saw reports on another forum (300 blk specific) that bullets just fell out of cases dumping powder into the magazine/rifle, bullets not seated straight, etc.
View Quote
If it's the one I'm thinking of, I used to post over there from time to time.

I haven't used the stuff since the abysmal results I got in '13. The only Remington ammo I would touch after that was Slugger. I don't know that I'd buy even it nowadays though. Luckily I'm sitting on a pile of it I bought years ago.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 7:37:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Naporter:
They didn't ask for credentials?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Naporter:
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:

My Streichers order should be here tomorrow...
They didn't ask for credentials?
Not for my order over the weekend.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 8:49:25 AM EST
Interesting response from Vista this morning. Who would be considered a non-direct customer channel?

Thank you for your inquiry. Our HST ammunition is available to all customers. We’re proud to offer competitive products and pricing based on technology, value and pursuit. The industry standard 50-round Law Enforcement packs are and always have been offered to the LE channel to meet their needs. There are often sales that occur outside of our direct customer channels that provide excess inventory of these packs to the commercial market. We appreciate your feedback and will consider it as we develop new products. You can find limited time discounts and promotions on a variety of Federal products by visiting https://www.federalpremium.com/promotions. We look forward to continuing to offer the best ammunition and service to all of our customers.

Thanks
Customer Service
Vista Outdoor Inc.
Customer Service 763-852-8709
1 Vista Way Anoka, MN 55303
Email: customer.service@vistaoutdoor.com
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 9:00:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goodnerd:
Interesting response from Vista this morning. Who would be considered a non-direct customer channel?

Thank you for your inquiry. Our HST ammunition is available to all customers. We’re proud to offer competitive products and pricing based on technology, value and pursuit. The industry standard 50-round Law Enforcement packs are and always have been offered to the LE channel to meet their needs. There are often sales that occur outside of our direct customer channels that provide excess inventory of these packs to the commercial market. We appreciate your feedback and will consider it as we develop new products. You can find limited time discounts and promotions on a variety of Federal products by visiting https://www.federalpremium.com/promotions. We look forward to continuing to offer the best ammunition and service to all of our customers.

Thanks
Customer Service
Vista Outdoor Inc.
Customer Service 763-852-8709
1 Vista Way Anoka, MN 55303
Email: customer.service@vistaoutdoor.com
View Quote
Got the same form letter
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 9:07:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goodnerd:
Interesting response from Vista this morning. Who would be considered a non-direct customer channel?

Thank you for your inquiry. Our HST ammunition is available to all customers. We’re proud to offer competitive products and pricing based on technology, value and pursuit. The industry standard 50-round Law Enforcement packs are and always have been offered to the LE channel to meet their needs. There are often sales that occur outside of our direct customer channels that provide excess inventory of these packs to the commercial market. We appreciate your feedback and will consider it as we develop new products. You can find limited time discounts and promotions on a variety of Federal products by visiting https://www.federalpremium.com/promotions. We look forward to continuing to offer the best ammunition and service to all of our customers.

Thanks
Customer Service
Vista Outdoor Inc.
Customer Service 763-852-8709
1 Vista Way Anoka, MN 55303
Email: customer.service@vistaoutdoor.com
View Quote
It means they allow their distributors to sell the 50 round boxes to LE, but not to non-LE customers.... But if someone other than the distributor sells the 50 round boxes, they don't care.

This is exactly how Winchester does it, too. They sell 50-round boxes of Ranger-T to LE only. Well a few years ago, a LGS I visit regularly had a full pallet of 50-round boxes of 40 S&W 180-grain Ranger-T on the floor for $20 a box. I asked if there was any difference than the stuff sold to LE, and the store owner told me it was the exact same stuff without the sales restriction. The story goes an LE agency bought two pallets of the stuff, stored them and shot them for a few years, and then switched to 9mm Gold Dot. Since they now had a pallet and more of 40 S&W left over, they sold the last remaining pallet back to the store for store credit to buy 9mm Gold Dot.

Therefore, the 40 S&W Ranger-T was outside of the direct customer chain, and had no sales restrictions from the manufacturer, including price. I bought a case of it.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 1:32:58 PM EST
Just got some 45 from Mass Ammo and expecting some 9mm from Boner Frog on Friday.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 2:03:44 PM EST
Call Federal and tell them that due to their policy of 50rd boxes only to LE, you will no longer buy XM193, XM855, gold medal match, etc., AND then you need to follow thru!!

Federal customer service is 800-379-1732
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 2:11:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2018 2:15:18 PM EST by vet14tango10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlrector:
Call Federal and tell them that due to their policy of 50rd boxes only to LE, you will no longer buy XM193, XM855, gold medal match, etc., AND then you need to follow thru!!

Federal customer service is 800-379-1732
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I did. Wont be buying their shit ever again. Plenty of options out there. Hit them in their wallet. Also sent vista and federal emails and got the same response listed higher on this page. Rifle ammo will go men , wolf or prvi. Pistol will go men for ball and find another SD round I like.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 6:32:12 PM EST
The new price for a 20rd box of HST online is $21.99. A buck ten a rd. The old prices were 40 cents a rd when buying a 50rd box.
Federal is dead to me.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 7:02:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2018 7:03:37 PM EST by ZMV]
Other Vista brands to boycott:

Camelbak
Bushnell
Weaver
Simmons
Primos
Blackhawk!
RCBS
Champion clays
Uncle Mikes
Hoppe's
Gunslick
Outers
CCI
Speer
Alliant
Blazer
Savage Arms
Bell
Giro
Redfield
Independence Ammunition
American Eagle
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 7:42:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2018 7:43:32 PM EST by Makarov]
Vista Outdoors supports "bump stock" bans and other Common Sense gun control
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 8:41:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Naporter:

If it's the one I'm thinking of, I used to post over there from time to time.

I haven't used the stuff since the abysmal results I got in '13. The only Remington ammo I would touch after that was Slugger. I don't know that I'd buy even it nowadays though. Luckily I'm sitting on a pile of it I bought years ago.
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The Remington 300 blackout that I bought had bullets so loose that you could pull them out with your finger tips.
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 9:08:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZMV:
Other Vista brands to boycott:

Camelbak
Bushnell
Weaver
Simmons
Primos
Blackhawk!
RCBS
Champion clays
Uncle Mikes
Hoppe's
Gunslick
Outers
CCI
Speer
Alliant
Blazer
Savage Arms
Bell
Giro
Redfield
Independence Ammunition
American Eagle
View Quote
Unpossible, Arfcom will never give up its Bushnell Elites and Weaver Grand Slams
Link Posted: 10/31/2018 11:36:10 PM EST
I just placed an order for 4 50-round boxes of Speer 124gr 9mm +P GDHP's. The total was $110.96, shipped. (Flat rate $15 shipping up to 50 lbs.)

Once I get tracking info, I'll IM the vendor's web address to whomever may want it. I won't post it publicly, as I don't want to risk them having their peepee smacked for selling to non-LE, causing the loss of one of the few affordable sources of my defensive ammo of choice.
Link Posted: 11/1/2018 6:09:48 AM EST
This just came through on my phone as I was reading this (I am a shareholder and their stock has been dumping lately AOBC has been killing it). We'll see how this news changes next quarter. Might just cut my losses.

VSTO Earnings Report
Link Posted: 11/1/2018 1:49:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Naporter:
They didn't ask for credentials?
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Originally Posted By Naporter:
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:

My Streichers order should be here tomorrow...
They didn't ask for credentials?
Nope
Link Posted: 11/1/2018 7:24:48 PM EST
Just a quick update: about a week ago I used a reorder link in an email invoice from April and it allowed me to purchase 124gr +P without an LEO click box. I was charged, never got an email invoice, never got a shipping notice but the ammo showed up yesterday about 6 days from ordering it with a paper invoice included.

For the time being I can confirm old email reorder links bypass the LEO Requirement.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/1/2018 8:03:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlrector:
Call Federal and tell them that due to their policy of 50rd boxes only to LE, you will no longer buy XM193, XM855, gold medal match, etc., AND then you need to follow thru!!

Federal customer service is 800-379-1732
View Quote
I am sure all six people who can't understand policy and decide to call and demonstrate that lack of understanding will sway their mind on this.
Link Posted: 11/2/2018 8:14:51 PM EST
I like HST rounds but dont want to give Vista proceeds. So I found a local guy who had 10 cases of 50 rounds boxes for sale at less than $20 a box, which was more than the wholesale price he paid for them.
Link Posted: 11/2/2018 9:47:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARowner:
I stopped at GT in Orange Park, FL today to pick up a few items, and asked if they were aware of this. In-store staff said they can sell the HST rounds to anyone. They are only restricted on Hornady Critical Duty.
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howdy neighbor :)
Link Posted: 11/2/2018 10:02:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2018 11:38:42 PM EST
Going to visit my LGS and buy some more HST and GD seconds (visual defects) tomorrow... Use them for testing guns, non-seconds for carry.... 180g .40 HST - $14, 124g 9mm GD, $10. Both per 50....
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 3:38:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By orion251:
Going to visit my LGS and buy some more HST and GD seconds (visual defects) tomorrow... Use them for testing guns, non-seconds for carry.... 180g .40 HST - $14, 124g 9mm GD, $10. Both per 50....
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Larry’s?
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 5:10:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattellis2:

Larry's?
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Yep. Got some 147g HST's for $12/50 this afternoon.
Link Posted: 11/3/2018 6:46:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By orion251:
Yep. Got some 147g HST's for $12/50 this afternoon.
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Awesome. I’m going to be in Huntsville next weekend.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 12:30:52 PM EST
Got my 147 HST shipment from BoneFrog today
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 1:43:53 PM EST
Finally got paid. Anyone still have 124 grain standard pressure that is still taking orders without credentials?
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 2:47:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Finally got paid. Anyone still have 124 grain standard pressure that is still taking orders without credentials?
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BoneFrog may or may not ship w/o credentials. you won't know until you try. Stretchers has it but are a little higher.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 2:50:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Makarov:
Vista Outdoors supports "bump stock" bans and other Common Sense gun control
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Cite?
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 2:58:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadmeat3344:
Cite?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadmeat3344:
Originally Posted By Makarov:
Vista Outdoors supports "bump stock" bans and other Common Sense gun control
Cite?
https://vistaoutdoor.com/social-responsibility/

"-Regulate Bump Stocks, which are mechanisms added to semi-automatic firearms designed to mimic automatic fire."

...of course they do support legal protections for manufactures and licensed dealers of firearms & ammunition
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 3:05:12 PM EST
One of the popular sellers had 147gr HST in stock last night and they were gone in 2 hours. A case was 400 delivered.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 5:06:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattellis2:

Awesome. I'm going to be in Huntsville next weekend.
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Go to the Madison location. They have more in stock.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 5:07:45 PM EST
Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 8:10:48 PM EST
FWIW- I was at a gunshow this weekend and bought 500 rounds of 124 HST and 250 rounds of 147 HST for $20/box of 50 rounds. I asked the Dealer if he was going to be able to get more. He didn't seem too concerned.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 9:55:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2018 9:56:18 PM EST by cosair]
Spoke directly with the owner of a large online supplier of Federal. Stated it was purely about the 20 rnd boxes not moving off dealer shelves because of the price of 50 rnd online that prompted this decision.

I told him, "they are going to lose a lot of $ when everyone stops buying all Federal...not just the 20 rnd boxes".

He said, "I know, but they don't care, they own a lot of other stuff. This ammo is a small thing to them."

I hope they lose enough to care...but seeing the list of everything the only thing they will pay attention to is if we boycott EVERYTHING they make because of this.

I don't think Federal or their owners are the friend of the average Joe. They have the LEO and military contracts and those a guaranteed $ forever.
Link Posted: 11/5/2018 10:13:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cosair:
Spoke directly with the owner of a large online supplier of Federal. Stated it was purely about the 20 rnd boxes not moving off dealer shelves because of the price of 50 rnd online that prompted this decision.

I told him, "they are going to lose a lot of $ when everyone stops buying all Federal...not just the 20 rnd boxes".

He said, "I know, but they don't care, they own a lot of other stuff. This ammo is a small thing to them."

I hope they lose enough to care...but seeing the list of everything the only thing they will pay attention to is if we boycott EVERYTHING they make because of this.

I don't think Federal or their owners are the friend of the average Joe. They have the LEO and military contracts and those a guaranteed $ forever.
View Quote
Colt used to think that...
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 7:20:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cosair:
Spoke directly with the owner of a large online supplier of Federal. Stated it was purely about the 20 rnd boxes not moving off dealer shelves because of the price of 50 rnd online that prompted this decision.

I told him, "they are going to lose a lot of $ when everyone stops buying all Federal...not just the 20 rnd boxes".

He said, "I know, but they don't care, they own a lot of other stuff. This ammo is a small thing to them."

I hope they lose enough to care...but seeing the list of everything the only thing they will pay attention to is if we boycott EVERYTHING they make because of this.

I don't think Federal or their owners are the friend of the average Joe. They have the LEO and military contracts and those a guaranteed $ forever.
View Quote
Colt, S&W and others have, in the past, also counted those chickens before they hatched. It didn't play out the way they thought it would.

Stop buying the over priced 20 round boxes and they will go away. Vista/Federal can publish all the "policy" they want but market forces will prevail in the end.
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 11:52:47 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:
Not for my order over the weekend.
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Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:
Originally Posted By Naporter:
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:

My Streichers order should be here tomorrow...
They didn't ask for credentials?
Not for my order over the weekend.
I ordered some two weeks ago and it hasn’t shipped yet.

Yesterday they posted this on their website.

**Federal Cartridge HST ammunition sales are limited to Law Enforcement and Military individuals, credentials must be provided to purchase**
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 10:48:14 PM EST
Sad to see, but I expect more of it.

We have a whole lot of companies that seem fine with supplying police and military but wish to limit what the honest law abiding tax payer can spend their money on, even thought their tax dollars are what buy the police and military their stuff.

Some of the people around me never bought hst or anything similar by the case. They thought 20 rds for 20 bucks was the normal price.

Some of em don't even care that they could have saved money, and now will be unable to save money perhaps.
Link Posted: 11/6/2018 10:49:20 PM EST
Then I will order fit 1-round boxes, please
Link Posted: 11/7/2018 12:10:49 AM EST
My 4 50-round boxes of 124gr +P 9mm GDHP's were delivered today with no need for any kind of creds.
Link Posted: 11/11/2018 5:51:08 PM EST
@orion251

Thanks for the heads up on Larry’s. I picked up a bunch of 9mm 124 grain Gold dots for $10/50, 147 HST for $12/box and 165 grain HST 40 for $15/box.

One complaint though: 10.5% sales tax?! wtf, Alabama? Especially when I looked it up after checking my receipt. Madison county is supposed to be 9%. I am going to call them tomorrow to see how they got to 10.5.
Link Posted: 11/11/2018 5:53:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Glocked:

I ordered some two weeks ago and it hasn’t shipped yet.

Yesterday they posted this on their website.

**Federal Cartridge HST ammunition sales are limited to Law Enforcement and Military individuals, credentials must be provided to purchase**
View Quote
And this is patently absurd because .Mil cannot buy COTS Ammo and pop it in their weps.
Link Posted: 11/11/2018 6:04:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattellis2:
@orion251

Thanks for the heads up on Larry's. I picked up a bunch of 9mm 124 grain Gold dots for $10/50, 147 HST for $12/box and 165 grain HST 40 for $15/box.

One complaint though: 10.5% sales tax?! wtf, Alabama? Especially when I looked it up after checking my receipt. Madison county is supposed to be 9%. I am going to call them tomorrow to see how they got to 10.5.
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They are in HSV so the rate is 10.5. They are offsetting our low property taxes basically. I pat $750 a year on a 160k house.
Link Posted: 11/11/2018 6:13:07 PM EST
Ah, thanks.

Sounds like y’all make out better than GA. I just paid about $2100 for just a little more house. Better to have transients like me pay it!
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