

Posted: 5/5/2002 8:20:23 AM EST
While you should know as many vulnerable points as possible,you will undoubtedly have your "favorites".
In [b]non-lethal [/b]situations, I am partial to strikes to the testicles(punch or grab & pull),eyes(open hand or finger jab),nose(horizontal stoke at the top),throat(open hand jab) and knees(kick to the front or side). In situations where your life is in danger I can't think of a more devastating blow than the [b]"45 degree upward blow to the nose"[/b] While the horizontal strike to the nose mentioned above(non-lethal)will break the nasal bone or septal cartilage and cause profuse nasal bleeding by rupturing the nasal portion of the angular vein,the upward blow could kill an opponent. I hope you never have to use this blow,but if you do,you must not hesitate and strike THROUGH the target. By hitting the tip of the nose with the base of your palm you will be forcing the cartilage in the septum through the crista galli and through the frontal part of the brain,thus causing hemorrhage/compression of brain tissue,and death! [red]This is not a blow you want to screw around with in anything other than "life or death situations". To me, use of this is equivalent to pulling out a gun and shooting someone![/red] [b]To be used only in the utmost extreme![/b] What are your favored spots and why? |
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Could you please do a more descriptive explanation of the open throat jab?
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I can't recall the last time I was in a fight. I prefer to not be there in the first place if I can help it.
However, that aside, I'd have to agree with the knee. I myself have had a dislocated left patella For those of you who don't know...... If you take a man's knee out, you can pretty much consider the fight over. It hurts like I've never felt pain before, and it pretty much takes the mobility and motivation out of an opponent. |
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Quoted: Could you please do a more descriptive explanation of the open throat jab? View Quote Just open your hand, fingers together-like a Karate chop or like when you simulate an airplane flying-hit with the tip of the fingers! |
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If you dont start the altercation,[b]YOU FINISH IT[/b]Gun's EdAvilaSr(now are those Desert eagle 50's,or Raven's?)[;)]outlined the best defence is go for the throat/head and I 'tink' we all concur.
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personally, (no offense here ed) i always carry pepper spray if i'm not carrying a handgun. it's a LOT easier to explain in court, and you never have to put your hands on them.
also, to get really good at any technique, you have to practice a lot ( i know, i'm a certified PPCT instructor for my dept) and that just opens you up to "see, he's been practicing to hurt people your honor" but, whatever works for you. |
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I saw a guy get eye gouged in a fight once. Worked great-he fell on his butt holding his eye and screaming. He also ended up in the hospital. I would be careful to only use this one when you can justify it later.
I've seen a few guys keep going after being kicked in the groin. It usually works, but if the other guy is determined enough it might be a few minutes before that move catches up with him. I've always been pretty skeptical about the nose blow killing anyone, but it sure will make your eyes water and lose focus. I don't think learning martial arts is any more likely to get you in trouble in court than having pepper spray-"Fred egged the "the victim" into fighting him, because Fred had pepper spray with him. Fred was just waiting to let someone have it with a blast of that pepper spray, that's why he carried it and that's why FRED started the fight, because he knew he could win it." |
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I've always been partial to the sternum. If you break or even bruise the sternum they won't be able to breath or move very well for weeks after a well placed sternum injury.
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Quoted: I don't think learning martial arts is any more likely to get you in trouble in court than having pepper spray-"Fred egged the "the victim" into fighting him, because Fred had pepper spray with him. Fred was just waiting to let someone have it with a blast of that pepper spray, that's why he carried it and that's why FRED started the fight, because he knew he could win it." View Quote o.k.,and since i have been to court as a defense AND a prosecution witness dozens of times on just that same topic, i guess your unbased guess is correct, and i don't know what the hell i'm talking about. no flame intended, i knows whats i knows. |
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Quoted: o.k.,and since i have been to court as a defense AND a prosecution witness dozens of times on just that same topic, i guess your unbased guess is correct, and i don't know what the hell i'm talking about. no flame intended, i knows whats i knows. View Quote I hope no one makes a decision on how to handle their personal safety based on the comments of some guy who calls himself "Aimless" on the internet [:D] but coincidently I have defended a few people against assault prosecutions, two of which I remember were boxers, however I don't think the DA brought in a self defense instructor in either case (which resulted in not guilty verdicts) and maybe that would have changed the outcome of the case. I don't doubt that you know more about this stuff than me and maybe if you'd testified things would have played out differently; but I'm not a complete drooling idiot on this subject. I did try the "you know karate" tactic in a case involving a fight between my client and a police officer who was a local karate instructor-it really had little to do with the case, but I didn't get the impression that the jury thought much of it, but who knows. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Could you please do a more descriptive explanation of the open throat jab? View Quote Just open your hand, fingers together-like a Karate chop or like when you simulate an airplane flying-hit with the tip of the fingers! View Quote I would think twice about jabbing at someone's throat in a nonlethal situation, as you could easily accidentally kill them. Instead, the NECK(sides) is a great non-lethal point of attack. I've seen it done on police videos. One sharp blow to the carotid artery and BAM, they're down, or at least stunned for a few seconds. JMHO |
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When I first started taking karate (traditional Japanese) some 20 years ago one of the favorite striking targets was the area just under the nose. Straight punch had a tendency to bust the lip, break out teeth (and skull), had good shock value and was a good initial opening. In more modern times I would hesitate to use this technique because you were almost guaranteed to cut yourself and there is a possibility of blood cross contamination (HIV). We currently teach going to more soft target areas with the hands (such as extended knuckle strikes to the throat)
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Quoted: I would think twice about jabbing at someone's throat in a nonlethal situation, as you could easily accidentally kill them. Instead, the NECK(sides) is a great non-lethal point of attack. I've seen it done on police videos. One sharp blow to the carotid artery and BAM, they're down, or at least stunned for a few seconds. JMHO View Quote You are right about this.But the same can be said of a number of blows,including one to the side of the neck. Delivered with enough force to the side of the neck,a blow can rupture either/or both major blood lines(Internal Jugular Vein or the Carotid Artery) below the sternocleidomastoid muscles and you can kiss the persons ass goodbye! Anyone who has seen one of these vessels go(lacerated,ruptured,etc)will be happy to never see another one! |
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As a student in Ed Parker's American Kenpo, my favorite target to get a [u]MAN'S[/u] attention is a strike to the genitals, preferably with a hand sword or a heel palm. If access with the hand is not practical, then I might resort to some kind of leg or foot action to a knee and/or the groin. I think (maybe I should say I hope) the guy will be reluctant to get up and continue if he receives a shot in "los cojones" AND a knife-edge kick to one or both knees.
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Front kick.
Heel of palm strike to jaw. Or if you're feeling particularly sassy... ...straight punch to solar plexis, with SIMULTANEOUS strike to throat, with the other hand. |
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Ed, while devastating the upward palm to the nose almost NEVER results in brain injury due to cartilidge, etc. it will mess a person up really bad to be sure but I've seen it done a few dozen times with great ferocity and it did not produce a fatality or even brain injury. It is possible, but unlikely. Kinda like winning the lotto.
One of my favorites is also a throat attack. Open your hand palm down and thrust the side of the hand (focusing on the side of the knuckle) between the thumb and index finger edge first into the throat. Step back quickly or you will be wearing the guys last meal. For a quich check tap your own throat in the same manner with slight force. You will quickly understand. |
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Quoted: I've always been partial to the sternum. If you break or even bruise the sternum they won't be able to breath or move very well for weeks after a well placed sternum injury. View Quote Buddy, you beat me to it. But let me [i]expand[/i] on this strategy, which is in turn my all-time favorite attack. I start off with my right foot back. If he approaches me, I do a [i]fake[/i] tiger claw strike to his face with my left hand. I then step up right foot forward, and with my fist at a 45 degree angle, take a hard jab at the tip of the sternum, effectively bruising/breaking it. This will temporarily incapacitate the opponent while he feels the need for "air", and while he is reeling from the blow, I'll embrace my hands around the back of his neck (albeit leaving me temporarily open for attack) and thrust my knee into his stomach. If he's still standing, I'll take his head (conveniently placed near my armpits) and wrap my arm around his head into a guillotine choke position. From there, I can either remain standing and apply pressure to the choke hold until he is rendered unconscious, OR I can thrust my leg under his body, and drop him down into a DDT face-first, while still holding a carotid choke. I dont like doing this on asphalt, because it usually tears up my forearm during the fall...however, its less dangerous because you're open for attack or a suplex reverse in a standing guillotine choke position. It's not all that dirty (with the exception of the face-plant DDT) but it sure as hell is effective...effortless too. |
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If your opponent cannot see he cannot fight.
If your opponent cannot breathe he cannot fight. If your opponent cannot stand he cannot fight. |
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Quoted: If your opponent cannot see he cannot fight. If your opponent cannot breathe he cannot fight. If your opponent cannot stand he cannot fight. View Quote If your opponent is not a Ninja, he cannot fight. |
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Knees - unquestionably. Easy to fold, pretty much a fight stopper no matter what. The average guy in the street is not trained to think about them either - they can be kind of a giveme since they only require 7 pounds of pressure and most folks are going to give you an angled shot at it. I like the rear leg knee. More weight on it, greater protection / more options for me if I miss.
Sneaky - be conciliatory - "gosh I just so sorry" (my hand touches my forhead as if in thought - other hand in pants pocket to indicate that I don't want trouble) now within a couple feet - "why don't I buy you a beer?" (Reach to slap them on the back - grasp back of head - head butt and splatter nose). Then get serious. One of those spots that is great when you are having a "conversation" with someone - take fingers and close them like a fist but place them under your thumb for support. Using the tip of your thumb, place the tip on the backside of the ear lobe as high as possible up into back of the V created by the back of the ear lobe, back of the ear and the neck. Be gentle with yourself - drive the tip into the neck and apply an upward pressure to the cartiledge of the back of the ear. You would be amazed what someone will tell you. (Disclaimer - I am not advocating violence nor am I stating in any way shape or form that I have committed an act of physical agression against anyone.) Take care. |
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Quoted: personally, (no offense here ed) i always carry pepper spray if i'm not carrying a handgun. it's a LOT easier to explain in court, and you never have to put your hands on them. also, to get really good at any technique, you have to practice a lot ( i know, i'm a certified PPCT instructor for my dept) and that just opens you up to "see, he's been practicing to hurt people your honor" but, whatever works for you. View Quote Pepper spay - it needs to be fresh. I have had a hit from some (assumed) old stuff - ya know on a key ring for years - it was more like seasoning for a meal than a detterant. Self defense electronic tasers - been zapped by one of these too. I wasn't impressed. Just made me cranky. I think the biggest problem with these is - you gotta be able to hold the person still enough to keep it on them. I think what Qshoes is saying is really important and something I did not appreciate when I was younger - there are lots of folks running around with a "full kit" on them at all times. Just cuz you can read their eyes doesn't mean you have x-ray vision for their clothes. Physical confrontation is not worth the risk of loss of life, devistrating physical injury, lawsuits and jail time. Not to mention looking over your shoulder for years to come. Smile and let it go. |
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Quoted: I've always been partial to the sternum. If you break or even bruise the sternum they won't be able to breath or move very well for weeks after a well placed sternum injury. View Quote More power to you if you are that quick, however - are you sure you are cogniscent of how hard you have to hit the sternum to do this? Secondly, most people in a confrontational situation put their hands up - greatly reducing your chances of a clean shot to the sternum. Like I said - if your that quick and that strong - more power to you. |
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Quoted: Ed, while devastating the upward palm to the nose almost NEVER results in brain injury due to cartilidge, etc. it will mess a person up really bad to be sure but I've seen it done a few dozen times with great ferocity and it did not produce a fatality or even brain injury. It is possible, but unlikely. Kinda like winning the lotto. View Quote I value your actual experience in the field,and not EVER having done it myself,I cannot argue with what you have seen. However,in my military training,watching transphenoidal(through the nose approach)surgery to remove pituitary gland tumors and empirical experience in medical examiner's (forensic)cases it is a very probable thing to get the osteocartilagenous tissue right into the base of the brain near the olfactory nerves (coming from the nose to the brain)with a severe blow. I guess I will continue to hold this blow in the [b]"do not try unless your life depends on it category![/b] [:)] |
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I've never done it myself. Everone has heard the story. It would be just my luck that "I" do it and the SOB dies. If I'm ready to put a man "in a hole" I'm hoping I won't have to do it with my bare hands.
But one I HAVE done is a variation on the theme. Same palm strike but overhand down hard into the bridge of the nose. Pretty much breaks (actually shatters into fragments) it everytime. Lots of blood and violence deterring pain. Pretty much total impairment of vision and will to fight ensues. Nobody likes it. Brings fights to a abrupt end. I took a poorly placed, ill focused hook kick to the same target area from about the same attack path as a overhand palm and can tell you, it didn't feel sexy. Didn't hit with much impact, no breaks, but damn if I couldn't see straight, balance was shot to shit and it hurt like a bastard. And nobody really likes to bleed that much. A little gets you into the fight, a lot just makes you dizzy. |
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Using your Best Bruce Lee Voice, lunge forward kicking your Perp Square front center of his shin... Hopefully you are wearing steel toed boots like myself.. Perp bends down Immediately to hold shin and looks up at you.. With your Best "Three Stooges" attack using your index and middle finger, strike both eyes without completely following thru as to avoid Jamming... You now can round house the poor slob in the head or any finishing move you desire.. I personally at this time choose to upright him and Jack Hammer his head/ neck into hopefully concrete or asphalt.. [:)] Realist out |
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Remind me to avoid close encounters with ANY of you! I HATE fights, will put up with extreme provocation to avoid it. Hate to get this close - can't I just shoot him?
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Quoted: Remind me to avoid close encounters with ANY of you! I HATE fights, will put up with extreme provocation to avoid it. Hate to get this close - can't I just shoot him? View Quote If their names are A.Gore,H. or W.Clinton,C.Schummer,D.Feinstein,etc I wish they were "man" enough to threaten someone like you with lethal force so you could defend yourself![;)] That is...... if you can get by their S.S. bodyguards![:)] |
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Generally I begin by pushing back in my chair, trying to keep the force back rather than up to avoid tipping the chair- this usually means you trip over it and should be avoided. Once the chair is back and I've extended my legs as far as practical I stand straight up, take a half step forward and reach to the table with my right hand in a claw like grip, thumb to the left. The grip catches the bowled glass of Château Belle-Garde Bordeaux (1984) and firmly but smoothly lifts it with a slight outward and forward motion. (Some prefer the Château Les Ormes Sorbet but its technically a Médoc and I find the Bordeaux stains MUCH better). A continuing upward and outward motion towards my opponent across the table builds the momentum of the liquid but keeps it from rising up out of the lip of the glass. It's important to keep all this after the half step in one smooth motion. As my arm nears full extension I roll my wrist forward and down, using the thumb for leverage on the glass. This motion rolls the liquid up and over the REAR lip of the glass and causes it to travel forward, arcing over the table in a sheet-like fashion providing much better coverage than conventional methods. If done properly, the shirt, tie, jacket, vest AND trousers can be impacted.
I follow up the move by putting the glass down on the table upside down (which I find increases the emotional impact of the move) and striding towards the door with head held high and back straight. As I pass my opponent I generally conclude the entire combination by addressing my opponent with a "don't ever call me again" sufficient to be heard by other patrons while avoiding all eye-contact. |
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Hotel Sierra Tatjana, has any of your victims, er, opponents, ever survived the encounter?
Are they too busy eyeballing your molded trauma plate to see the attack coming? Edited to add: Or worse yet, your date was eyeballing another woman's molded trauma plate. [BD] |
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1. Throat
2. Eyes 3. Sternum/xyphoid process 4. Neck After training for almost 22 years (it will be in June) I have found that these targets appear to be universally incapacitating to even the most committed assailants. I have others I normally work into my fighting combinations, but these are the "devastating" targets IMHO. |
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