Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/24/2005 1:37:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 1:38:13 PM EDT by lippo]
You might want to think about this long and hard, then discuss it with your other police officers...


CRIMINALS HAVE MORE RIGHTSTHAN THE POLICE(AND BE VERY GLAD THEY DO)

BY CLAIRE WOLFE

The Founding Fathers, those sterling folk we’ve been taught to revere, were soft on crime. They were a bunch of liberal whiners who considered it more important to protect criminals than to give the police effective tools to fight crime.This is the absolute truth. Why else, when they wrote the Bill of Rights (the first 10 amendments to the Constitution), did five of their 10 basic statements of liberty focus on protecting accused crooks? Even more outrageous: The Founders believed criminal suspects have inborn rights, while government agencies merely have delegated powers. Powers that can be revoked by the people at any time and must always be strictly limited.In the blind eyes of justice and the highest law of the land, criminal suspects and individual police officers have exactly the same rights, while police agencies have no rights at all. Yep, if the Founders were around today, they might be card-carrying (although also gun-toting) members of the ACLU. And for that we should all be glad. When you read the Bill of Rights you see right away that Amendments 5, 6, 7, and 8 focus on protecting accused criminals.

Jury trials. No forced self-incrimination. No excessive bail or fines. Right to counsel. Right to confront accusers and present defense witnesses. No cruel or unusual punishment. Indictments only by grand jury. No re-trying someone after he’s been found to be not guilty. There’s one other crook-protecting amendment, the Fourth. We’d better look at that one quickly, because that loud sucking sound you hear is the Fourth Amendment running down the drain.

Here’s the full text: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue,but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. We’re losing those protections fast—particularly every time we hop in our cars. No big deal, you say? A good thing, even? The Fourth gives crooks too many advantages over police? Some people think so. But when the Fourth is gone, police and criminals alike (not to mention the rest of us) will live in a miserable and more dangerous world.Like all the Founders’ other soft-on-crime amendments, the Fourth rose out of English legal tradition. But more than the others, the Fourth was inspired by real abuses American colonists suffered at the hands of their British rulers before the Revolutionary War.And here’s an irony for you. Today, the Fourth Amendment is being destroyed because courts and legislatures are okaying broader search power in the name of “fighting crime.” Specifically fighting druggies and terrorists. Yet the Fourth Amendment was written, in part, because the British had used ever-broader search powers in the name of “fighting crime.” Specifically fighting smugglers and tax evaders.Of course the Founders actually wrote all ten amendments to confirm their belief that everyone has a pre-existing right to a broad range of freedoms. Any of us can end up accused of a crime, whether a murder we didn’t commit or a drug crime whose evidence was planted on us by an enemy. Any of us can come under suspicion by government agents eager to search through our homes, cars, businesses, communications, or paperwork.

Something must stand between individuals and the overwhelming, often arbitrary, power of government. The Fourth has been our best hope.Until the twentieth century, the Fourth Amendment remained strong in America. Memories were long. School children were taught the horrors of government agents busting down doors, ransacking property, and plowing through people’s private possessions—and doing it all on flimsy evidence, or no evidence at all.After World War II, the example of Nazi Germany made Fourth Amendment protections seem even more vividly important.

I remember being taught that the number one difference between a police state and a free country was that in a free country “the authorities” couldn’t stop you at will. They couldn’t search you just because they felt like it. They couldn’t demand, “Your papers, please.” They couldn’t kick down your door at night and ransack your possessions. Until about forty years ago, our homes and possessions were considered sacred. No warrant, no entry, no search—except in the most extreme urgent circumstances, for instance, when someone’s life was in immediate peril. Then came the War on Drugs—and we forgot our traditions, our history, our protections, our rights.First, police needed “no-knock” raids because drug users might flush their stash if given any warning. Then “no-knock” raids started to be used even where there was no possibility of the suspect flushing evidence down the toilet.

Then came ever-expanding rights to search vehicles, drivers, and passengers. Then came checkpoints for drunk driving.

Which gave rise to checkpoints for every non-criminal triviality from insurance to seat-belt use. And on it goes.In the latest Supreme Court judgment against the Fourth, Illinois v. Roy I. Caballes, the black-robed lawyers decreed that drug dogs could be set to sniffing any vehicle at any traffic stop—even where police had no reason at all to suspect drug use or drug selling. Your vehicle.

My vehicle. Your daughter’s vehicle.



Article here

When police officers get a backlash, maybe they should think about this, huh? Maybe they should think about the 2nd Amendment too...wouldn't you agree?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:46:20 PM EDT
Wow, you've even pulled the Constitution into "them vs us".........................
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:47:55 PM EDT


Getting deep around here.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:48:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:48:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Wow, you've even pulled the Constitution into "them vs us".........................



It is. It's about tyrants and patriots. Everyone has to decide what side they're on.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:51:06 PM EDT
I think this thread is gonna go in the shitter in record time..............because it will degrade to an Us and Them free for all....................I think lippo put up some valid points..they wil be lost in the free for all!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:51:22 PM EDT

Is "this" better? No bashing. Just a question, a statement and a suggestion.

I DO want a discussion about these kinds of things, because if we don't, actions like what happened in VA is going to get worse. And worse. AND I DON'T want to see that happen. And maybe if police officers start talking about how things are going, may stop some future actions that are just plain wrong.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:53:30 PM EDT
Everyone understands what you are saying, and how you feel Lippo.
Some may think you're a nut , but they know where you are coming from.

Just calm down every great once in a while would ya?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:55:08 PM EDT


IBTL
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:55:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Wow, you've even pulled the Constitution into "them vs us".........................



Not my intention. I would like to see police officers, ALL, start to support the Constitution. They live in the communities, with everyone else. And they have just as much responsibility as everyone else does. And if there is such a thing as a blue thin line, then I'd really like to see them police themselves. Because, we aren't going to be able to do it.

I am hoping with the pressure put on by the protest over the VA thing, some of this will stop. Because the politicians won't do anything about it.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:57:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
Everyone understands what you are saying, and how you feel Lippo.
Some may think you're a nut , but they know where you are coming from.

Just calm down every great once in a while would ya?




I thought I just did.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:58:02 PM EDT
Damn you bastard police officers! Luckily the founding fathers loved criminals and mistakingly protected me from you wrath.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:01:01 PM EDT
TACO'S!!!

That's what I want for dinner!

Sorry, but this dilemma has been hanging over my head all day.
I had to spread the good news.

Yipppeeeee
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:04:04 PM EDT
Was it Claire Wolfe who said"It's too late to work within the system but too early to shoot the bastards"?

I have not thought of her in years.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:04:42 PM EDT
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:05:23 PM EDT
OK, I want some of this.

IBTL!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:06:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:06:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 2:12:11 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:07:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 2:08:31 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:12:35 PM EDT
LOCKA LOCKA LOCKA
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:13:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:17:17 PM EDT
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Semper fFi,
ASO544
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.



Why would I even care about you? And how would I be trying to stick a burr under your saddle?

Honestly, you don't even cross my mind.

And email? Mind explaining yourself?
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:20:26 PM EDT
Get a grip ! people.

The founding forefathers had no idea what an automobile was when they drafted the constitution. If they did, they probabley would have included it. But since they did not, the courts intervened on this very issue and have done so in this matter since at least 1925.

See: Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132 (1925)

Vehicle are one of the very few, and I mean few, exceptions to the fourth amendment, but officers must still have probable cause to search ! Get that, probable cause to search, not reasonable suspicion, an inkling, a sixth sense, a gut hunch, "My corn's acting up again Ernie"........

PROBABLE CAUSE !

FWIW

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:21:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:25:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:29:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.



Why would I even care about you? And how would I be trying to stick a burr under your saddle?

Honestly, you don't even cross my mind.

And email? Mind explaining yourself?



You're the one posting, I'm the one responding to your posts. You're trying to make a point in GD. I called you a troll, you called me a dickhead back. You wanted the attention and I am happy to give you some. I don't spend much time posting about MY issues in GD, I write e-mails to my representatives or to involved parties. I hope you e-mailed links to the appropriate law enforcement agencies so that somebody who might be in a position to act on your comments has the opportunity to do so. Otherwise, you're just yelling in a hurricane.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:33:07 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:33:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


It's always amusing to me how some of us are actually DOING things in real life to fight the RKBA battle, while others spend time talking shit on the internet, bashing others who are on our side--and important in the fight (in this case pro-RKBA LEOs). Does Lippo really think the real JBTs of the country are posting on this site? I am personally acquainted with many of the LEOs who post here--there are many more than are known publicly. Most I would trust my life to in a SHTF situation--and I KNOW where they stand regarding the RKBA. Including them in the category of "rights violators" is a grave insult--as well as a horrible mistake. Those who run off at the mouth, with no clue what they are talking about (not just Lippo) are much more of a detriment to our side than any number of "bad" LEOs, as they paint all of us as whack jobs to the voting public--who will ultimately decide our fate, at the voting booth.


I disagree and find nothing amusing about it, the state i.e. government is evil, the only way to have small evil is to have small government, the police officer is supposed to be a servent of the people and NOT the state, however too many mistake the state for the people and fail to uphold their oath and violate it by supporting the criminal state is hopes the state will continue to support them with a paycheck.

I have yet to read of any poice officers on this site support the second amendment, in most cases "they" attack those who do support the second amendment.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:36:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:40:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.



It's always amusing to me how some of us are actually DOING things in real life to fight the RKBA battle, while others spend time talking shit on the internet, bashing others who are on our side--and important in the fight (in this case pro-RKBA LEOs). Does Lippo really think the real JBTs of the country are posting on this site? I am personally acquainted with many of the LEOs who post here--there are many more than are known publicly. Most I would trust my life to in a SHTF situation--and I KNOW where they stand regarding the RKBA. Including them in the category of "rights violators" is a grave insult--as well as a horrible mistake. Those who run off at the mouth, with no clue what they are talking about (not just Lippo) are much more of a detriment to our side than any number of "bad" LEOs, as they paint all of us as whack jobs to the voting public--who will ultimately decide our fate, at the voting booth.




So, the good ones are actually making a dent on what's going on today in society? Doesn't look like it to me. I have 3 good friends that are police officers. I, too, would count them as good guys. But I still talk to them about this kind of stuff. And I ask them what "they" would do in situtations, like the VA gun show. The good ones talk a lot too. Then they go along with what the superiors ask them to do. I have seen it. Then when I ask my LEO friends why would other officers do that, they give a funny look on their face. Voting isn't going to get it anymore. Nor is shooting going to get anywhere. In your face, discussion is the only real solution. Some call it debate, some call it discussion, some call it bitching...no matter what you call it, only real discussion about a problem will any solution be found. And too many people are affraid to really discuss, real, issues that are facing us. Because they seem to be afraid to lose face.

Like I have said before, I don't hate cops, I WANT them on OUR side. Not the side of politicians or power hungry superiors. Not everyone is bad, but when you let your pay check over rule your responsibilty to the Constitution, you shouldn't have that pay check. Same would go for the Military or our Politicians. And personally, I'd like to see politicians kicked out of office for going against the Constitution. They DO know how to read. There is NO interpetation to a lot of the Constitution or Bill of Rights, but people want to put their "opinion" in there to get their own way. Every side does it and some will say I am doing the same. Maybe, but I'd like to get back to the wording and actual intent (which, has been said by the origninators of the Constitution and Bill of Rights). Not much speculation if you read what they say and follow it. Personal property is personal property. And "shall not be infringed" means just what it says. They even spell it out in their oratories about the Bill of Rights. But people like power and control, in order to "control" their own world...while they infringe on the Rights of others to do so.

You look at some "words" that I post on this board and come to a conclusion of what think, who I am and how I think. Which, you have NO idea, who I really am. Just like I don't and couldn't have a clue who you really are inside. So please don't assume. You don't know my motives. Or at least don't see my motives. You see excitement, when you should be looking at the real content. Excitement is the only way things get talked about here. Everyone talks about knee jerk reactions, but it goes both ways. I don't get how so many people can get pissed when they read something, when all they have to do is ask, "what's the meaning behind it", to understand it. I guess human nature is human nature. People seem to like too, jump to conclusions and think within their own little box.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:41:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 2:47:16 PM EDT by MK4Mod0]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.

.. Edited to take out a dumb ass coment!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:43:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
I think the Founding Father did a very good job in writing down what the intended the Constitution to be..........unfortunately it has been...............Modernized" to fit the political climate of the day..............Please remember the Supreme Courts recent ruling on Eminent Domain..............We "ALL" should be raising hell and high water to get back to the "intent" that the Founders expressed in several places besides the Constitution..................I can understand lippo's "excitement"......I do not understand the "tuff shit " attitude of so many here!



Thank you. Very well said. And yes, that's what I was trying to point out.

I don't get all the flags and no big problem that some here have posted, over some of the abuses that have taken place in society recently.



Until I read about you in the newspaper, I'm going to assume that you are just another emotional mouth trying to stick a burr under my saddle. I already e-mailed everybody who might be relavent to dealing with this issue. If you didn't get an e-mail, there's are good reason.



Why would I even care about you? And how would I be trying to stick a burr under your saddle?

Honestly, you don't even cross my mind.

And email? Mind explaining yourself?



You're the one posting, I'm the one responding to your posts. You're trying to make a point in GD. I called you a troll, you called me a dickhead back. You wanted the attention and I am happy to give you some. I don't spend much time posting about MY issues in GD, I write e-mails to my representatives or to involved parties. (AS I DO. I even go to their offices to let them see I'm willing to spend my personal time to stand up for my Rights.) I hope you e-mailed links to the appropriate law enforcement agencies so that somebody who might be in a position to act on your comments has the opportunity to do so. Otherwise, you're just yelling in a hurricane.




Underline...good point. And yes I have email people. I should have posted some links and email addresses here. Thanks, good point.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:44:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Please provide at least a few of your (no doubt) numerous examples of this.



You have better search capabilities, just search militia and Shivan.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:48:49 PM EDT
Topic people.


If you know of a police officer or are a police officer. Please talk to fellow officers about what's going on and that they should tell the FED's to stick it when they ask to go against the Constitution.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:50:59 PM EDT

How ironic, just recieved this from a friend of mine via email...


i got pulled over while riding my bike this evening. long story short i will be filling a complaint about the officer. i would have let it go but her car was outside of my house an hour later. i went outside to see why she was there and she would not tell me. i invited her in to go over the law which i just finished reading. her reply was 'i already know the law and i am glad that you are educating yourself.' again i asked her in to go over it with me. this time no response. i quoted what i had read and told her she owed me an apology. she said she owed me nothing. i asked for her name and she drove off. on her pad of paper i saw the tag number of my car...




This is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:52:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 2:58:48 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:53:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
Topic people.


If you know of a police officer or are a police officer. Please talk to fellow officers about what's going on and that they should tell the FED's to stick it when they ask to go against the Constitution.



lippo The very existance of police is against the ideals of the constitution, why would you ask them to get themselves fired, do you actually expect them to get real jobs and earn a living ?

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:57:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
How ironic, just recieved this from a friend of mine via email...


i got pulled over while riding my bike this evening. long story short i will be filling a complaint about the officer. i would have let it go but her car was outside of my house an hour later. i went outside to see why she was there and she would not tell me. i invited her in to go over the law which i just finished reading. her reply was 'i already know the law and i am glad that you are educating yourself.' again i asked her in to go over it with me. this time no response. i quoted what i had read and told her she owed me an apology. she said she owed me nothing. i asked for her name and she drove off. on her pad of paper i saw the tag number of my car...




This is the kind of thing I am talking about.




Seriously - I cannot make head or tail of that. Is there a better explanation of what actually happened? This seems like the TAIL end of a story, and I'd like to hear the front end.

Just ignore me if it woudl take your thread too far off-topic - it's just idle curiousity
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:58:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 2:58:20 PM EDT
I think the Police are needed and for the most part they do a good job..............You have cops like Chitwood in Portland Maine that do things that are contrary to the law, because they have the badge and the idea that they dont like it.......................And these guys keep their jobs !!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 3:01:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 3:01:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 3:01:51 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
See post.
Top Top