[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FFL holders please read (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 9/12/2011 3:35:31 PM EDT
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so today i go in to a gun shop in surprise and ask about doing a transfer, and the guy who tells me he is the owner, says what information he needs and that it will cost me $40, no big deal, his fee is more than i want to pay, but he is 10 miles closer than everyone else. I then ask him if it is the same person at the shop receives the rifle, places it in the safe, takes it out of the safe when i get there and then finishes the paperwork with me. When I asked that he looked at me like I had 3 heads. I was told that whoever receives it would do so, place it on the shelf, where anyone who wishes to can handle MY rifle until I get there to do the paperwork. Then whoever was available at the time would help finish the paperwork. I can almost be ok with the 2 person handeling, but it being on the shelf, as opposed to the safe that is five feet away is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.I would pay his transfer fee, which is $20 higher than his most expensive competitor, if it was handled by one person and placed in the safe.
Those of you who have an FFL I ask you this: Am I out of line asking for my transfer to be handled all the way thru by one person, and that my rifle be locked in a safe from the time it is received until i come in to fill out the paperwork? any info would be greatly appreciated. P.S. PM me if you are in the greater phoenix area and you want to know who not to do transfers to. |
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So you are certain it will become more damaged if the person who locked it away is not the same person as the one who brings it to you?  no, i never said that, but human capacity for error is high enough with one person, if there is more than one person handeling it, the capacity for error goes up. |
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Having 1 person do everything is crazy. and i do think you are out of line. on the other han Having customers playing with your gun prior to transferring to you is unacceptable. For this alone, I would find another FFL Gotta go with this. Bingo... its not like any other product you own it.... not the dealer.....I quit using a dealer I had spent several thousand dollars with because he finger fuc@## a vintage Colt 1911 that I specifically asked him not to rack the slide etc...Damn it I paid for it it's mine not yours you made your money on the transfer its not for you or anyone else to play with. |
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Did he actually say that they put it on the shelf so anyone can handle it? Most places put transfers aside specifically so that they are segregated from inventory guns. his exact words were "then it goes on the shelf, where anyone who would like to handle it can, until you arrive to pick it up" |
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You're asking for a little much asking for a single person to to the log in/log out. If anyone ever tells you how many people handle your food, please call me. I'd LOVE to see your face.
Having my personal property (once I have payed the shipper it is *MY* personal property) finger-fucked by every swinging dick in the county is unacceptable. I'd ream the owning toolbag a new ass and find a new establishment. ETA I'd like to ask, are you sure your rifle was on the PUBLIC rack? I've done regular business with 5 shops over the years and many had a rack for repairs/reserves/lay away. Are you CERTAIN your rifle was on a public rack? |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? |
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You're asking for a little much asking for a single person to to the log in/log out. If anyone ever tells you how many people handle your food, please call me. I'd LOVE to see your face. Having my personal property (once I have payed the shipper it is *MY* personal property) finger-fucked by every swinging dick in the county is unacceptable. I'd ream the owning toolbag a new ass and find a new establishment. i have worked in restaurants since i was four, i know how many people handle the food. it is more of a personal preference on the handeling. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. |
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You're asking for a little much asking for a single person to to the log in/log out. If anyone ever tells you how many people handle your food, please call me. I'd LOVE to see your face. Having my personal property (once I have payed the shipper it is *MY* personal property) finger-fucked by every swinging dick in the county is unacceptable. I'd ream the owning toolbag a new ass and find a new establishment. i have worked in restaurants since i was four, i know how many people handle the food. it is more of a personal preference on the handeling. Did you make the owner aware of your demands before agreeing to do business? I highly doubt that since they're pretty nuts. He and most everyone else within a 100 mile radius would refuse terms like that. |
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You're asking for a little much asking for a single person to to the log in/log out. If anyone ever tells you how many people handle your food, please call me. I'd LOVE to see your face. Having my personal property (once I have payed the shipper it is *MY* personal property) finger-fucked by every swinging dick in the county is unacceptable. I'd ream the owning toolbag a new ass and find a new establishment. i have worked in restaurants since i was four, i know how many people handle the food. it is more of a personal preference on the handeling. Did you make the owner aware of your demands before agreeing to do business? I highly doubt that since they're pretty nuts. He and most everyone else within a 100 mile radius would refuse terms like that. i won't be doing business with the guy, i won't have my AR sitting on his shelf being handeled by anyone who walkes thru the door. i asked him about puting it in the safe, but he said "not for you, not for my own mother." |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? i read that it was illegal to ship a firearm across state lines, without sending it to an ffl. |
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My favorite FFL lets me break the factory seal on the gun case.
Hell, one time I even bought two consecutive serial numbered Glocks and brought them home without ever opening the boxes. (people here talked me in to opening them to verify for myself the numbers on the gun matched the numbers on the boxes) |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? i read that it was illegal to ship a firearm across state lines, without sending it to an ffl. If its going to someone who doesnt already own it, as in you sold it to someone. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? i read that it was illegal to ship a firearm across state lines, without sending it to an ffl. If its going to someone who doesnt already own it, as in you sold it to someone. what i read was that i could ship it to myself, but someone else couldn't ship my rifle to me. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? The OP has never taken POSSESSION of the rifle before now. Therefore he is required to fill out a 4473 to transfer it from the receiving FFL to himself. It is still his legal property. Posession is the issue with federal law, not ownership. You can ship firearms to yourself out of state as long as they are not opened by the receiver and you have no plans of transferring it to another person. He is right about one thing, having his personal property on display for customers to try out without his authorization means the owner owes him for the depreciation of the firearm since now it is no longer "new". It might sound crazy, but how crazy is it that your car dropped a thousand dollars or more in value after you drove it off the lot? Its a matter of principle. |
| I would not be okay with customers being able to handle my firearm at all. I assume the employees would but they have more to lose by scratching it. My local ffl keeps firearms being transferred in the owner's office and the store's stock is kept in the storeroom or on display on the other side of the store. |
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I think what the OP is looking for is something like:
(walks into shop where Joe is at the counter) I'd like to transfer in a firearm. Joe - sure, give me the information, I'll take care of it. (week later, walks in). Hi Joe, got my gun? Joe - sure, have it over here. Here's your form, I'll get your rifle. As opposed to: Hi, is Joe in, I have a rifle to pick up Max - I don't know nothin about no rifle. I spoke to Joe, is he in? Max - no Did Joe mention a transfer? Max - no That looks like my new Colt over there that Bo Duke's dumber brother is using as a hammer, can I pick it up? Max - How do I know it's yours? Because I paid $1600 for it and had it transferred here. Max - I don't know that. You can have it for $1500 It's already mine. Ask Joe Max - Joe ain't here....... Ad nauseum. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? The OP has never taken POSSESSION of the rifle before now. Therefore he is required to fill out a 4473 to transfer it from the receiving FFL to himself. It is still his legal property. Posession is the issue with federal law, not ownership. You can ship firearms to yourself out of state as long as they are not opened by the receiver and you have no plans of transferring it to another person. He is right about one thing, having his personal property on display for customers to try out without his authorization means the owner owes him for the depreciation of the firearm since now it is no longer "new". It might sound crazy, but how crazy is it that your car dropped a thousand dollars or more in value after you drove it off the lot? Its a matter of principle. i have taken possession of the rifle before, but it is sitting in my friend's safe. my buddy has his ffl, so it could be transferred to me very easily, i just don't want my rifle, one the i built from a box of parts to be fingerbanged by everyone who walkes into the establishment. |
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I think what the OP is looking for is something like: (walks into shop where Joe is at the counter) I'd like to transfer in a firearm. Joe - sure, give me the information, I'll take care of it. (week later, walks in). Hi Joe, got my gun? Joe - sure, have it over here. Here's your form, I'll get your rifle. As opposed to: Hi, is Joe in, I have a rifle to pick up Max - I don't know nothin about no rifle. I spoke to Joe, is he in? Max - no Did Joe mention a transfer? Max - no That looks like my new Colt over there that Bo Duke's dumber brother is using as a hammer, can I pick it up? Max - How do I know it's yours? Because I paid $1600 for it and had it transferred here. Max - I don't know that. You can have it for $1500 It's already mine. Ask Joe Max - Joe ain't here....... Ad nauseum. i could not have worded that any better myself, that is exactly what i am talking about! |
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My favorite FFL lets me break the factory seal on the gun case. Hell, one time I even bought two consecutive serial numbered Glocks and brought them home without ever opening the boxes. (people here talked me in to opening them to verify for myself the numbers on the gun matched the numbers on the boxes) Your ffl doesnt open the boxes to verify serial numbers before logging the gun in?! |
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I think what the OP is looking for is something like: (walks into shop where Joe is at the counter) I'd like to transfer in a firearm. Joe - sure, give me the information, I'll take care of it. (week later, walks in). Hi Joe, got my gun? Joe - sure, have it over here. Here's your form, I'll get your rifle. As opposed to: Hi, is Joe in, I have a rifle to pick up Max - I don't know nothin about no rifle. I spoke to Joe, is he in? Max - no Did Joe mention a transfer? Max - no That looks like my new Colt over there that Bo Duke's dumber brother is using as a hammer, can I pick it up? Max - How do I know it's yours? Because I paid $1600 for it and had it transferred here. Max - I don't know that. You can have it for $1500 It's already mine. Ask Joe Max - Joe ain't here....... Ad nauseum. i could not have worded that any better myself, that is exactly what i am talking about! You guys are living in a dream world. I suggest you get your own FFL. Before you respond read my early reply |
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Putting it on the shelf is BS.
I don't think you have any right to demand it goes in a safe though. When I buy guns they keep them lying around in the back behind the desk, or on the shelf ( not a shelf where customers have access ) It is a 3 person show, and I am among their best customers. Have at least one gun a month transferred through them often more. Never had a problem with them or any other dealer before that I have dealt with. I've never heard of it going in a safe. Of course if thats what you want, you've every right to find a dealer who does. |
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My favorite FFL lets me break the factory seal on the gun case. Hell, one time I even bought two consecutive serial numbered Glocks and brought them home without ever opening the boxes. (people here talked me in to opening them to verify for myself the numbers on the gun matched the numbers on the boxes) Your ffl doesnt open the boxes to verify serial numbers before logging the gun in?! Not smart 
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I think what the OP is looking for is something like: (walks into shop where Joe is at the counter) I'd like to transfer in a firearm. Joe - sure, give me the information, I'll take care of it. (week later, walks in). Hi Joe, got my gun? Joe - sure, have it over here. Here's your form, I'll get your rifle. As opposed to: Hi, is Joe in, I have a rifle to pick up Max - I don't know nothin about no rifle. I spoke to Joe, is he in? Max - no Did Joe mention a transfer? Max - no That looks like my new Colt over there that Bo Duke's dumber brother is using as a hammer, can I pick it up? Max - How do I know it's yours? Because I paid $1600 for it and had it transferred here. Max - I don't know that. You can have it for $1500 It's already mine. Ask Joe Max - Joe ain't here....... Ad nauseum. i could not have worded that any better myself, that is exactly what i am talking about! That would suck. Has anyone exactly had that happen ? I've been buying through transfer for 10 years and never heard of that happening to anyone. Just get to know the gun shop people and you probably won't have these problems. If not, just have the sender of the firearm put a note on the gun or receipt with gun saying its yours. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? The OP has never taken POSSESSION of the rifle before now. Therefore he is required to fill out a 4473 to transfer it from the receiving FFL to himself. It is still his legal property. Posession is the issue with federal law, not ownership. You can ship firearms to yourself out of state as long as they are not opened by the receiver and you have no plans of transferring it to another person. He is right about one thing, having his personal property on display for customers to try out without his authorization means the owner owes him for the depreciation of the firearm since now it is no longer "new". It might sound crazy, but how crazy is it that your car dropped a thousand dollars or more in value after you drove it off the lot? Its a matter of principle. A "new" gun on the display rack is still new. Do they sell them as used because someones touched it ? Its not been sold, modified, or fired. Its new. Doesn't mean they should handle the OPs gun though, a transfer shouldn't be on the shelf. |
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So you are certain it will become more damaged if the person who locked it away is not the same person as the one who brings it to you? no, i never said that, but human capacity for error is high enough with one person, if there is more than one person handeling it, the capacity for error goes up. This is just dumb. Sorry, OP. |
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Your rifle is a product. It gets handled like any other product. I would look at you like you had 3 heads also. it is a product i already own, that is only being transferred because it is sitting in another state. Wait, you're transferring a gun that you already own to yourself? it is over a thousand miles away right now, it isn't like i can run over there and pick up my AR in an afternoon, i would gladly do that instead if it was an option. Why dont you just have someone mail it to you, its not a handgun, you can have guns mailed to you if you already own them. Didnt we just go over this in a thread? i read that it was illegal to ship a firearm across state lines, without sending it to an ffl. If its going to someone who doesnt already own it, as in you sold it to someone. what i read was that i could ship it to myself, but someone else couldn't ship my rifle to me. I believe you are correct. |
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I have worked for two FFL's and transfers are always kept in the back and only opened to verify the serial number. A transfer is personal property and not for anyone to finger fuck.
The other stuff is dumb, anyone that works there can help you through a 4473. Although, for $40 maybe you should expect a concierge transfer. |
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My favorite FFL lets me break the factory seal on the gun case. Hell, one time I even bought two consecutive serial numbered Glocks and brought them home without ever opening the boxes. (people here talked me in to opening them to verify for myself the numbers on the gun matched the numbers on the boxes) Your ffl doesnt open the boxes to verify serial numbers before logging the gun in?! Nope. These were the two Glocks I brought home unopened. (I photoshopped out the serial numbers) 
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Having 1 person do everything is crazy. and i do think you are out of line. on the other han Having customers playing with your gun prior to transferring to you is unacceptable. For this alone, I would find another FFL Gotta go with this. Bingo... its not like any other product you own it.... not the dealer.....I quit using a dealer I had spent several thousand dollars with because he finger fuc@## a vintage Colt 1911 that I specifically asked him not to rack the slide etc...Damn it I paid for it it's mine not yours you made your money on the transfer its not for you or anyone else to play with. I've heard of worse. A friend of mine had a dealer refuse to give him his gun, because he wanted to keep it for himself! There was no legal excuse or reason, just hey I like it how much do you want ? After a few weeks of coming in and asking for it, my friend gave up and sold it to him. So crap happens, but this isn't the kind of thing that would be prevented by having only one person touch it either. |
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Those of you who have an FFL I ask you this: Am I out of line asking for my transfer to be handled all the way thru by one person, and that my rifle be locked in a safe from the time it is received until i come in to fill out the paperwork? Yes on the red part, no on everything else. When I worked at a gun shop, all transfers got locked up in the safe as the shop IS responsible for loss/theft of ANY gun on/in their premises.The owner damn sure didn't wish to pay for a Baer or Wilson 1911 should it disappear, IOW. Now, handguns would get looked at by us once it was opened to confirm the S/N. Long guns, not so much since they were almost always wrapped in plastic. If a shop owner EVER told me MY gun would be put on a rack for a mouth breather to finger fuck, he would NEVER get ANY of my business EVER again. 
My .o2 |