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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 10:33:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:02:54 PM EDT by V_Johnson]
Link to story on Officer.com

FEMA Seeks End of Complicated Dispatch 10 Codes
Posted: August 29th, 2005 12:08 PM EDT

ASSOCIATED PRESS


FREDERICKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- In Virginia police-speak, a 10-50 means a motor vehicle accident. But head to Montgomery County, Md., and 10-50 becomes ''officer in trouble.''

Now the Federal Emergency Management Agency is recommending police and other emergency officials nationwide give up the varying numerical codes used to communicate quickly with each other, saying the shorthand can lead to confusion when different agencies respond to a disaster.

In Virginia, the shift has met with both mild resistance and complacency.

FEMA issued a directive in May involving an array of new training and procedures with which police departments across the country will have to comply.

Part of the National Incident Management System directive involves phasing out the 10-codes -- or ''brevity codes''-- and replacing them with phrases like ''I'm at an accident scene'' and other standard language.

''It comes down to common terminology, plain language, plain English that everyone can understand,'' said Don Jacks, FEMA spokesman. ''It's the language that we use. If there's a bank robbery, we want the police to say, 'There's a bank robbery at First and Main' instead of, 'There's a 10-50'.''

FEMA hopes this will create a system by which all police and emergency personnel can understand each other and reduce confusion in emergency situations involving multiple jurisdictions.

But Virginia State Police use codes, and will continue to do so until they get official word from FEMA to stop, said spokeswoman Corrine Geller.

''We've not received any directive or any kind of documentation from FEMA concerning the phase-out of the brevity codes,'' Geller said. ''The superintendent is aware of these recommendations (but) we'll continue to use them until we're notified by FEMA.''

The Virginia Department of Emergency Management uses plain English anyway, and isn't really affected, said spokesman Bob Spieldenner.

Gov. Mark R.Warner has signed off on the FEMA requirements, promising the state will comply with the national standards.

Jacks said FEMA recognizes changes won't come overnight, but that the agency wants police departments to at least make an effort.

''We want them to be working toward becoming compliant and becoming compliant is using common terminology, common language,'' Jacks said. ''We know they won't be eliminated by October 2006. But our goal is good-faith efforts to be able to change the way first responders communicate.''

Jacks said local police departments will not necessarily lose federal money by failing to comply with the new regulations.

But when applying for grants next year, departments will have to note whether they're phasing out the codes.

Those which are could have a leg up in the grant race, he said.
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Nice to see that they're holding grant money over the heads of agencies. VJ

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:34:14 PM EDT
Clear text/ Plain text is the wave of the future, I've used both, and wouldn't want to go back to codes ....
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:44:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 6:45:09 PM EDT by Peacefulwarrior]
Even plain language can be confusing enough under stresshock.gif10 codes/signals etc. should have been gone a long long time ago they violate the KISS principle. Say what you gotta say and keep it short.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:32:05 PM EDT
This is a step in the right direction. It just makes so much sense, more versatile.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:56:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 10:57:17 PM EDT by SanTifiQue]
it is a good step. I heard a rumor about this a while back but the thing that seems kinda wierd is that fact that they will give "a leg up" on those agencies that are "phasing out codes" for more grant $!

give me a break!

Anyway....here 10-50 means use ext. caution, just thought i would throw that in.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:43:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 1:44:15 AM EDT by AZ-K9]
Love it when the feds try to run state or local level programs.... Sure to get effed up.


Whats so hard with going plain text when other agencies are monitoring/communicating and using your own codes when not?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:51:42 AM EDT
yeah but realistically how are you going to get every agency to use the same codes.

i know i would be pretty screwed up to have to change all my ten codes.....


but on the other hand the use of normal language wouldnt be started until 2006, thats well enough time to study up.

I'll just go with the flow! hinking.gif
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:53:54 AM EDT
We've been doing it with the county fire departments here for about 3 years. The cops and EMS crews are all for it. But the volly firefighters refuse to give them up. I think it makes them feel special or something.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:36:57 AM EDT
I can see the reasoning behind it, but I can also hear the griping and whining, etc, from some folks I work with, about changing it.

Most of our state is the same, except for one county east of us....10-80 to them means they have one in custody. 10-80 in my county means HIGH SPEED CHASE. Um, yeah, there have been some moments.....

VJ
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:06:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 3:06:48 PM EDT by loon_138]

Originally Posted By V_Johnson:

Most of our state is the same, except for one county east of us....10-80 to them means they have one in custody. 10-80 in my county means HIGH SPEED CHASE. Um, yeah, there have been some moments.....

VJ




No, 10-80 means Sexual Assault
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:20:40 PM EDT
I use 10 codes to talk to my 101 sometimes.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:40:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:08:24 PM EDT
Lets look at the Gulf Coast right now. How many different Specialty Teams do you think are in the area? About 50 to 100. USAR Task Force's, Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, Disaster Mortuary Assistance Teams, Red Cross, not to mention the fire departments that are sending water rescue teams to the area. When all these Federal resources start showing up and they don't how to "talk" to the local responders what do think will happen? With communication interoperability very high on the list of things to fix when responding to large events and agencies spending billions to fix this problem it would kinda suck to still not be able to talk to each other when you really needed to.

Lets also look at the Strike Team/Task Force Concept. This is a big thing for Wildland firefighting, and is becoming a new concept outside of that arena. With this concept, a Strike Team leader is from one agency in one part of a country and he/she may have up to 7 people/fire engines/bull dozers whatever that they are in charge of. All of these resources all also from different parts of the country. If all these different people did not have a common lingo how effective would this team be?

Plain English is the best way to communicate during an event. There is no confusion and no reason to memorize anything.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:09:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
I use 10 codes to talk to my 101 sometimes.



Your 101 is my XYL (I have NO idea where that one started!) and up north of here, spouse would be your call number plus 1/2 at the end... IE 440 1/2 is on the phone for you.

Pretty F'ed up, if you ask me.

VJ
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
We've been doing it with the county fire departments here for about 3 years. The cops and EMS crews are all for it. But the volly firefighters refuse to give them up. I think it makes them feel special or something.



We have the opposite, EMS and all the volunteer departments have given them up for quite some time, but LE will now..... and they have 10-50 as a MVA while the NCSHP uses it for man with a gun.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:32:15 PM EDT
We are still on 10 codes and haven't heard anything here about changing. When I was in TN I did a ride along and they used plain talk there.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:54:11 PM EDT
We just switched over to plain language 2 months ago. No problems so far.

NIMS & FEMA say no plain language = no grant $$$.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:42:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 11:44:46 PM EDT by possumkop]
Originally Posted By V_Johnson:
IE 440 1/2 is on the phone for you.


440 is my unit number....
Even though our Dept and the county 911 still uses 10-codes (yes many are differnet) I use plain language. It's a pain in the arse to have to remember all the 10 codes for two different dispatchers on two differnt freqs. We both use differnet phonetics too and mine are a mixed mess.
Adam, Bravo Sam Zulu......
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 2:51:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 2:51:59 AM EDT by SanTifiQue]

NIMS & FEMA say no plain language = no grant $$$.


Like I said before...thats pretty sad!


Originally Posted By AZ-K9:Love it when the feds try to run state or local level programs


...
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:54:51 PM EDT
FEMA (or any other Federal Government entitiy) could screw up a wet dream. What makes anyone think they would know what's best for state and local LEO's? If they want to do away with 10-codes during a situation in which they are in charge, fine. Ohterwise, leave me the hell alone! 10-codes are a simple, short and concise way to communicate. Alot of LEO's in my dept. like to rattle on and listen to themselves on the radio instead of being short and sweet. God help us if 10-codes were revoked! And, God help the #$%*)&^ blabbing on the radio while I'm getting my ass kicked!

Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:40:25 AM EDT
I don't really give a shit about FEMA. I do however that 10-codes need to go.

10-codes were meant for two reasons, to shorten our transmissions by giving a phrase a short code and two, useing a code to hide meaning from big ears. Well, it doesn't shorten the transmissions enough and a standardised code would be in several languages at Radio Shack within a day or two.

Plain lanuage all around. 'Bout time.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:02:17 PM EDT
Officer.com story
by LON SLEPICKA
Officer.Com News

The Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has announced today that it is no longer necessary for first responders to discontinue using the 10-Code system of verbal communication in order to come into compliance with the National Incident Management System (NIMS).

Speaking at the Annual Conference of the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) in Miami Beach, Chertoff said there was a strong response from the law enforcement community against this proposal. “We had a discussion about it. As a result, I have decided that NIMS compliance will not include the requirement of the abolition of 10-Codes in everyday law enforcement communications”

That announcement was followed by a warm round of applause from the full house of police chiefs at the Jackie Gleason Theater.

Chertoff went on to warn that when there are multi-jurisdictional and multi-agency events that there must exist a common language that addresses the variations that exist in 10-Code communication. “Everybody needs to be up to the challenge.”

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:28:05 PM EDT
As slow as some of the guys on my shift talk, I would hate to see them switch to plain English. It would take five minutes to call a traffic stop or put out a lookout from a robbery.

You yankee types obviously don't have that problem.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:40:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 9:02:25 PM EDT
Well, I'm so damned glad that he made up his mind. We had a supervisor meeting today, and decided to do away with our 10-codes by 1-1-06 to come into NIMS compliance...........Our entire county, and all 8 or 9 law enforcement agencies use the same set of codes and signals.

Guess we'll go back to the drawing board. What a joke.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:19:01 AM EDT
"NIMS"
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 2:30:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By possumkop:
Originally Posted By V_Johnson:
IE 440 1/2 is on the phone for you.


440 is my unit number....
Even though our Dept and the county 911 still uses 10-codes (yes many are differnet) I use plain language. It's a pain in the arse to have to remember all the 10 codes for two different dispatchers on two differnt freqs. We both use differnet phonetics too and mine are a mixed mess.
Adam, Bravo Sam Zulu......



Your a cop, I didn't know that howdy neighbor
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:52:05 AM EDT
Not a LEO but will post about this...

Your 101 is my XYL (I have NO idea where that one started!)

XYL is Ex Young Lady... your wife. This is old Ham slang from the days of Morse code.

CQ CQ meant Seek You Seek You. YL was a "young lady", or girlfriend. XYL was your wife.

10 codes and Ham slang were necessary for speed and intelligability in the days when radios were AM, noisy, and weak. I remember when antennas were mounted on the rear bumper on a big spring, and would be bent over the top of the car, and tied to the front fender or bumper so as to not catch on ever tree limb you drove under. This was for CB, Police, and "Shortwave".

The simpler and shorter the message, the easier it was to understand, to possibly be heard through the static. 10 codes and Ham slang have outlived their usefulness.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:08:19 PM EDT
They should also change to standard (international/aviation/military/amateur radio) phonetic alphabet. Keeping two sets of phonetic alphabet straight...
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:08:58 PM EDT
Even in plain english there are things that need to be coded. Even the few things that are coded can cause language issues. ie: Got dispatched (EMS) on a run for a party possible signal 5 (or something) I had to get on the phone and ask radio "what's signal five?"
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 8:58:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Not a LEO but will post about this...

Your 101 is my XYL (I have NO idea where that one started!)

XYL is Ex Young Lady... your wife.




Oh boy, I am going to have FUN with this knowledge! Thank you for that, been using and hearing it for 10 years and I now know what the H it means.

VJ
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 10:59:52 AM EDT

For you all who use plain language:

How does dispatch notify officers of warrants, criminal histories, caution indicators, terrorist suspects, gang members, etc., etc.

There are some things that NEED to be coded for officer safety IMO.



Link Posted: 10/4/2005 6:51:36 AM EDT
Does E-Bonics count?
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:49:45 PM EDT
We use plain language. On warrant hits we are advised "Mary" or "Frank" (Mary being Misdemeanor, and Frank being Felony...printed that just in case...lol) then asked "Are you clear for traffic?" We then say yes/no pending on if we're next to the person and they'll give us the rest of the info. The way we call out traffic stops is simple as well. It goes like this.

(Your Badge Number), Central, Traffic stop.

Then they say go ahead.

You say i'm on Douglas and Perth with DFK-4343

I worked for a dept that was code based, and some times that would get confusing as well. Maybe I'm just a dumbass, but I know I didn't know all the codes and in a pinch I would just call out what I had. It's easier that way. I will agree though sometimes under stress you can cut yourself off and/or even not come through clearly. That applies to codes as well IMO.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:28:45 PM EDT
My Fire Dept was using 10-codes, then they decided to switch to plain talk, then switched back to 10-codes because the dispatchers were having too much trouble since Police didn't switch too. WTF?
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