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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/31/2005 4:59:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 7:23:00 PM EDT by pcsutton]
Man...how genius need be one to see the need to air-drop food and water to the people trying to get out of NO?

How smart do you need to be to put up helos with PA systems or drop leaflets to tell people where to go?

If the Chief of FEMA doesn't have the sense to use air-drops and leaflets he shouldn't be in his position.

How many tons of MREs and tons of water did we drop to the Afghanis durring the invasion of Afghanistan? Aren't our own citizens worthy of at LEAST the same treatment?

Rant off



Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:02:18 PM EDT
I am watching Fox news right now and cant understand why the people on that bridge dont have any water to drink.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:03:50 PM EDT
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:07:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.



Ah yes, the era of the "quick fix". Yep, let's air drop food to looters who should have been gone 5 days ago. Let's drop it in so the looters can play warlord and hoard all the food. Let's drop it in with no one there to oversee the distribution.

Perfect recipe for an even bigger disaster.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.



Ah yes, the era of the "quick fix". Yep, let's air drop food to looters who should have been gone 5 days ago. Let's drop it in so the looters can play warlord and hoard all the food. Let's drop it in with no one there to oversee the distribution.

Perfect recipe for an even bigger disaster.



Lets drop the food ON the looters!


Where was that guided pallet delivery system thread anyway...
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:13:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
Man...how genius need be one to see the need to air-drop food and water to the people trying to get out of NO?

How smart do you need to be to put up helos with PA systems or drop leaflets to tell people where to go?

If the Chief of FEMA doesn't have the sense to use air-drops and leaflets he shouldn't be in his position.

How many tons of MREs and tons of water did we drop to the Afghanis durring the invasion of Afghanistan? Aren't our own citizens worthy of at LEAST the same treatment?

Rant off






Welcome to the real world.

Unfortunately, life isn't like the movies. Or is that "fortunately"??
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:13:58 PM EDT
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:15:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.



Ah yes, the era of the "quick fix". Yep, let's air drop food to looters who should have been gone 5 days ago. Let's drop it in so the looters can play warlord and hoard all the food. Let's drop it in with no one there to oversee the distribution.

Perfect recipe for an even bigger disaster.



Not everybody there is a freakin looter. The kids and old folks NEED WATER!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:15:39 PM EDT
Don't blame Fed .gov because local .gov is completely corrupt & incompetant.

As for the people on the bridge. They are in second tier need.

First tier need are those who have to be rescued so they can get to the bridge.

Lastly, many of those people did absolutely nothing to prepare for SHTF.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:15:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.



They wont be comfortable but I don't thnk any of them are going to die from either starvation or thurst before the Navy arrives tomorrow... then the LCACs which have the capability to actually move that number of people safely will be there.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:16:20 PM EDT
lawyers would sue over people bonked in the head with a leaflet. (not joking!)

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:17:33 PM EDT
Right now, they're trying to evacuate everybody to where the supplies are available.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:23:18 PM EDT
We were able to get relief supplies to the tsunami victims faster than we have gone into the big easy.

The way I see it, is that the govt. is letting things go the way they are so they have an excuse for a serious, nation wide lockdown and have the "new orleans disaster" as an example of what will happen if FEMA and any other govt. agency involved, dosn't go in with jackboots.

Nothing like a declared National Emergency to give the govt. the ability to take control of EVERYTHING.

The govt. had plenty of time to prepare, has the resources, and has the manpower, but lets things go to shit.

Gotta ask yourself why.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:24:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:26:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:30:59 PM EDT by CS223]
Well I tend to think the guy is a bit of a putz myself. He said GWB gave him every resource at his disposal which I would have never admitted publically.

None the less, the scale of this disaster covers three states, roads are blocked or gone, you can't possibly air drop all the supplies where they are needed. If you did, chaos would break out, people killing one another over water. You have to establish some order.

The problems stem form the following:

Unable to anticipate the magnitude of devastaion. Had they known what to expect, the military could and would have been staged to come in within hours of the storms passing. Trust me, after all the FL Hurricanes, at least they have some idea and resources to deal with the problem. Had we gone into this disaster totally green, it would have been the worlds largest cluster fuck.

The wide spread area affected. Andrew & the FL hurricanes affected much smaller and less populated areas. It was easier to focus assistance.

The disaster affected a major US city, heavily populated.

The resources are limited. You can't justify having millions of dollars in perishable goods warehoused & in rotation for a disaster that might not occur.

The best and most prudent answer to this disaster was & is to mobilize the military. They have the resources & logistics and knowledge to work with situations of this magnitude. The only thing that could have been done better, hindsight being what it is, was to stage the military in anticipation of the storm, literally right behind the storm. They could have shaved a few days off the rescue effort.

Again, hindsight, we all talk about prepardness and the Gov't tried to educate the public after 9/11 on prepardness, but we all need to prepare, here & now for such disasters in advance. Gov't can't help you, you must help yourself. Gov't needs a national prepardness campaign, even if it means providing assistance to lower income folks, water container, case of MRE's, body bag, basic survival gear, first aid training, for everyone. Start in the schools now. AS dumb as it sounds, you're mind must be taught how to react to disasters, just like rescuers are trained.

Remember 1*

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.



They wont be comfortable but I don't thnk any of them are going to die from either starvation or thurst before the Navy arrives tomorrow... then the LCACs which have the capability to actually move that number of people safely will be there.



I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:27:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Watch that WWLV tv feed. It looks like the Fall of Rome. There are people just walking away with a garbage or two filled with belongings.



Got a link to the WWLV feed? I'm coming up empty.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:29:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:30:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:30:46 PM EDT
I saw that FEMA chief interviewed on FOX. He was clueless. Must be a big time political appointee.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:34:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:


I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?



Why isn't anybody just filtering the water through a pilowcase or something and then boiling it? That plus a bit of bleach from the stores they are looting and they could all be drinking all the water they want. It may not taste great, but it will keep them alive.

Has our country come to a place where someone thinks they only water they can drink comes out of a bottle and so they die while being surrounded by water?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:34:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Watch that WWLV tv feed. It looks like the Fall of Rome. There are people just walking away with a garbage or two filled with belongings.



Got a link to the WWLV feed? I'm coming up empty.


Spelled it wrong, sorry it's the same link that has been posted before
www.wwltv.com/



Thanks. No wonder.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:40:36 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.



They wont be comfortable but I don't thnk any of them are going to die from either starvation or thurst before the Navy arrives tomorrow... then the LCACs which have the capability to actually move that number of people safely will be there.



I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?



Also pretty dumb.

Diahrroea is better than death by dehydration.

See also Mud Bugs post...

edited to add it also has not been 72 hours since the water went tits up, definently not 72 hours since people were forced to abandon their homes and therefore their refrigerators.

I would take any reports of death by dehydration with a large grain of salt. Death by heat exhaustion perhaps... but there just has not been enough time..
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:39:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.



They wont be comfortable but I don't thnk any of them are going to die from either starvation or thurst before the Navy arrives tomorrow... then the LCACs which have the capability to actually move that number of people safely will be there.



I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?



When the President of the United States come on TV and tells your coonass to get the fuck out of the bayou because a big storm is a commin'. I'd call that a clue.

Hindsight is everything, evac should have been done 3 days earlier. Thousands of lives have been/will be lost. You can blame who you like, that's the typical knee jerk reaction. Personal Prepardness is the only thing that could have made a difference. .
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:41:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I understand what you are saying...but.....we have helos out the wazzoo all over the south....how long does it take to print out leaflets to let these idiots know how to get help?

We have hurkey birds and shithooks out the wazzoo too. How hard is it to fly over and drop out MREs and water to those folks?

I know that the majority of these 'refugees' have put themselves in this perdicament by not evac-ing when they had the chance...but there are people DYING for lack of water.

In a nation as great as this one...that is inexcusable! Somebody just hasn't task it.



They wont be comfortable but I don't thnk any of them are going to die from either starvation or thurst before the Navy arrives tomorrow... then the LCACs which have the capability to actually move that number of people safely will be there.



I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?



I agree. But it takes a lot to get the logistics going.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:45:39 PM EDT
Exactly where would one tell the stranded to go? They were told to evacuate already.

When MREs and water were air-dropped into Afghanistan, for the most part, the areas were generally secure towns and villages. The SitRep in NOLA right now is random lawlessness. There are stragglers, looters and morons all OVER the damn place.

Bringing relief supplies INTO the evacuated area is exactly the wrong thing to do.

There are evacuees who need to be looked after. They are generally safe from the effects of the flood, but are displaced and need immediate sanitation, nourishment and security. Those are the people who should be helped with the most focus. Certainly, there should be a separate, concerted effort to rescue the elderly and infirm who were physically unable to evacuate.

Leaflets. Pfft.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:46:16 PM EDT
Can you please change the subject line to include the words "to be" between 'needs' and 'fired' ?

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:47:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:



Please edit that. We don't need another thread locked.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:51:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:52:52 PM EDT by Freakzilla]
my unit (parachute riggers) actually killed people with a food drop in gulf war 1,

one pallet of food killed like 12 kurd refugees.

now we just dump MREs out the back in a big cardboard box
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:54:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MudBug:

Originally Posted By pcsutton:


I reckon you just missed the Foxnews report that spoke to people who knew people who had already died from deydration. People are dying right now from dehydration. Kids can only go for about 72 hrs. without water. You can do without food for weeks...but not water.

Must be a bitch to die of thirst in a flood, eh?



Why isn't anybody just filtering the water through a pilowcase or something and then boiling it? That plus a bit of bleach from the stores they are looting and they could all be drinking all the water they want. It may not taste great, but it will keep them alive.

Has our country come to a place where someone thinks they only water they can drink comes out of a bottle and so they die while being surrounded by water?



Most folks can't open a can without an electiric can opener.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:09:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 6:10:24 PM EDT by dport]
Let's see.

Monday morning the hurricane hit. It was about 6 hours or so until you could safely get relief supplies in. Then you have 8 or 9 hours of darkness where about the only thing you reasonably can do is move supplies to staging areas. People in the city are so concerned about their situation they decide to console themselves with other people's property.

About 24 hours later, the levees break. The disaster goes from bad to worse. Now we are just over 24 hours after that and you expect what? The entire population to be rescued? Most of that part of LA is a bayou, meaning driving in under normal circumstances is difficult. Now you have flooded out areas. Which means helos or boats. Boats aren't fast and helos take a while to get staged. The USCG has been operating 26 helos and have rescued 1500 people. That doesn't count the USAF helos, USN helos, USMC helos, Guard helos and the like.

Air drop supplies? Where? The city is mostly flooded out. And you're not assured the supplies won't be spoiled by a bad landing. Why not, I don't know, use the aircraft to prestage the supplies in nonflooded areas capable of acting as a refugee camp? Oh wait, that's what they're doing.

You have 25,000 people in the SuperDome, where are you going to move them to? One place or many places? Where are those places? It's amazing they were able to secure the Astrodome so quickly. Oh and some in the SuperDome don't want to leave. Some don't want to go to the Astrodome; some don't want to leave the city. Others want to try to find family.

Eighty percent of the state of MS was without power at one point. A majority of LA was devastated. So where do you move the sick to? Many of the outlying areas of LA and MS have problems, roads blocked etc. You have to get through the outlying areas to get to the city.

From the sea, USN ships don't sit around stocked with disaster supplies. The nearest ships capable of providing help are in Norfolk Virginia, and they are slow ships. You're talking about two days or so of steaming time to get there. The nearest ship, which doesn't have relief supplies is immediatly dispatched, but it'll take about 12 hours for them to get there.

But go ahead start blaming people. You sound about as intelligent as RFK Jr blaming Haley Barber for the hurricane.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:14:10 PM EDT
First it is the FEMA Director.
Second we are working on getting the supplies to them. It does take time.
Third, I want you to show me where the damn tsunami people had supplies to them faster than NO.

We have all ready evacuated thousands. Looks at the numbers for the affected areas and you tell me where we are suppose to have ALL the necessary logistics to handle something of this magnitude within 48 hours of it happening.

These people that live in these areas know that htey are prone to hurricanes and flooding. Prepare for it and prepare for the fact that you may need to support yourself and your family for several days before local and federal help can arrive.

If you think you can step up and do a better job than apply for the position and bring your "A" game.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:15:22 PM EDT
Guys you need to remember who you are bitching at

F.E.M.A
Federal
Emergency
MANAGMENT
Agency



Says nothing about responce and dropping food. The original intent for the agency was to be desk monkeys who helped you fix you disaster. Its the welfare state that demands that they be johnny on the spot with water, seven course meal and a construction crew to build you puff Daddys crib by friday.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:34:01 PM EDT
ah man watayagonnado?

its a disaster after all....
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:35:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am watching Fox news right now and cant understand why the people on that bridge dont have any water to drink.



And maybe at least some canopies to sit under so they don't get FULL sun???


Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.



Well, it WOULDN'T if the pin heads would have made arrangements and plans for the worst case scenario BEFORE, 48 of the 72 hours is spent making "arrangements".... (notifying folks etc..) if that was done "if" something bad happened, They'd BE there now. Delay just makes everything worse. You PLAN and hope that time is just wasted (because nothing happened).


Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Don't blame Fed .gov because local .gov is completely corrupt & incompetant.

As for the people on the bridge. They are in second tier need.

First tier need are those who have to be rescued so they can get to the bridge.

Lastly, many of those people did absolutely nothing to prepare for SHTF.



This is where I'm conflicted. I heard that they were told that if disaster struck, they'd receive no assistance. IF that's true, that's what should happen. IF NOT, we should help. Also what's up w/accomodation? Were cheap/free transport OUT of the area available to all? If so, I'm just not all that concerned, if not, WTF? Get yer butts in there already!


Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
We were able to get relief supplies to the tsunami victims faster than we have gone into the big easy.

The way I see it, is that the govt. is letting things go the way they are so they have an excuse for a serious, nation wide lockdown and have the "new orleans disaster" as an example of what will happen if FEMA and any other govt. agency involved, dosn't go in with jackboots.

Nothing like a declared National Emergency to give the govt. the ability to take control of EVERYTHING.

The govt. had plenty of time to prepare, has the resources, and has the manpower, but lets things go to shit.

Gotta ask yourself why.

Chris



Well, incompetance, or what YOU said, frankly, tough call.


Originally Posted By uncle_frank:
I saw that FEMA chief interviewed on FOX. He was clueless. Must be a big time political appointee.



Now THERE'S a surprise! (NOT).

If they are FEMA... where the (you know) is the MANAGEMENT???
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:50:39 PM EDT
The best of plans NEVER survive initial contact with the enemy. Rule #1.

Second, remember, the govenrment big enough to supply everything is big enough to take everything away.

Third. There were no preparations to provide for 100% of the needs of 100,.000 people who cannot take care of themselves.

Fourth. The Salvation Army is providing more personal relief for these people than any NGO yet is receiving the least amount of federal funds. Go figure. They are quasi-faith based.

Once these refugees get to the Astro Dome, prepare for relief. Having 12 hours of preparation and being isolated from the action will mean this effort will have some semblance of leadership.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:20:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
Let's see.

Monday morning the hurricane hit. It was about 6 hours or so until you could safely get relief supplies in. Then you have 8 or 9 hours of darkness where about the only thing you reasonably can do is move supplies to staging areas. People in the city are so concerned about their situation they decide to console themselves with other people's property.

About 24 hours later, the levees break. The disaster goes from bad to worse. Now we are just over 24 hours after that and you expect what? The entire population to be rescued? Most of that part of LA is a bayou, meaning driving in under normal circumstances is difficult. Now you have flooded out areas. Which means helos or boats. Boats aren't fast and helos take a while to get staged. The USCG has been operating 26 helos and have rescued 1500 people. That doesn't count the USAF helos, USN helos, USMC helos, Guard helos and the like.

Air drop supplies? Where? The city is mostly flooded out. And you're not assured the supplies won't be spoiled by a bad landing. Why not, I don't know, use the aircraft to prestage the supplies in nonflooded areas capable of acting as a refugee camp? Oh wait, that's what they're doing.

You have 25,000 people in the SuperDome, where are you going to move them to? One place or many places? Where are those places? It's amazing they were able to secure the Astrodome so quickly. Oh and some in the SuperDome don't want to leave. Some don't want to go to the Astrodome; some don't want to leave the city. Others want to try to find family.

Eighty percent of the state of MS was without power at one point. A majority of LA was devastated. So where do you move the sick to? Many of the outlying areas of LA and MS have problems, roads blocked etc. You have to get through the outlying areas to get to the city.

From the sea, USN ships don't sit around stocked with disaster supplies. The nearest ships capable of providing help are in Norfolk Virginia, and they are slow ships. You're talking about two days or so of steaming time to get there. The nearest ship, which doesn't have relief supplies is immediatly dispatched, but it'll take about 12 hours for them to get there.

But go ahead start blaming people. You sound about as intelligent as RFK Jr blaming Haley Barber for the hurricane.



Very well said.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:24:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kacer:

Too funny.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am watching Fox news right now and cant understand why the people on that bridge dont have any water to drink.



And maybe at least some canopies to sit under so they don't get FULL sun???


Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It takes time people. Worst part of any disaster is the first 72 hours.



Well, it WOULDN'T if the pin heads would have made arrangements and plans for the worst case scenario BEFORE, 48 of the 72 hours is spent making "arrangements".... (notifying folks etc..) if that was done "if" something bad happened, They'd BE there now. Delay just makes everything worse. You PLAN and hope that time is just wasted (because nothing happened).


Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
Don't blame Fed .gov because local .gov is completely corrupt & incompetant.

As for the people on the bridge. They are in second tier need.

First tier need are those who have to be rescued so they can get to the bridge.

Lastly, many of those people did absolutely nothing to prepare for SHTF.



This is where I'm conflicted. I heard that they were told that if disaster struck, they'd receive no assistance. IF that's true, that's what should happen. IF NOT, we should help. Also what's up w/accomodation? Were cheap/free transport OUT of the area available to all? If so, I'm just not all that concerned, if not, WTF? Get yer butts in there already!


Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
We were able to get relief supplies to the tsunami victims faster than we have gone into the big easy.

The way I see it, is that the govt. is letting things go the way they are so they have an excuse for a serious, nation wide lockdown and have the "new orleans disaster" as an example of what will happen if FEMA and any other govt. agency involved, dosn't go in with jackboots.

Nothing like a declared National Emergency to give the govt. the ability to take control of EVERYTHING.

The govt. had plenty of time to prepare, has the resources, and has the manpower, but lets things go to shit.

Gotta ask yourself why.

Chris



Well, incompetance, or what YOU said, frankly, tough call.


Originally Posted By uncle_frank:
I saw that FEMA chief interviewed on FOX. He was clueless. Must be a big time political appointee.



Now THERE'S a surprise! (NOT).

If they are FEMA... where the (you know) is the MANAGEMENT???



That's what I thought.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:56:21 PM EDT
pcsutton...I said the same thing in another thread. I guess most here thinks it's allright to spend hundreds of millions to save third world despots but Americans be damned...I read in another thread someone said don't hold your breath for help to arrive because it's a Southern Red State I guess he was right So far I've heard of the LANG and the local Salvation Army helping out and noones seen the Red Cross. They just now as in today sent the Navy's LHAs out of port. It doesn't take three days to load a ship with bottled water and MRE's. Hell during the Cold War we were ready to set sail with a full MEU in less than a day. I'm pretty pissed about how this has been handled. Maybe if the were Muslims they'd have moved faster
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 7:58:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guns762:

Originally Posted By CS223:



Please edit that. We don't need another thread locked.




When you make MOD, then maybe you should say something...

I agree with him 100%.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:44:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shooter0311:
pcsutton...I said the same thing in another thread. I guess most here thinks it's allright to spend hundreds of millions to save third world despots but Americans be damned...I read in another thread someone said don't hold your breath for help to arrive because it's a Southern Red State I guess he was right So far I've heard of the LANG and the local Salvation Army helping out and noones seen the Red Cross. They just now as in today sent the Navy's LHAs out of port. It doesn't take three days to load a ship with bottled water and MRE's. Hell during the Cold War we were ready to set sail with a full MEU in less than a day. I'm pretty pissed about how this has been handled. Maybe if the were Muslims they'd have moved faster


You may be more ignorant than the origninal poster.
First, a pet peeve, they were LHDs not LHAs.

Second, they didn't spend 3 days loading the ships with supplies. It was less than two. They left Wednesday morning. Oh and no one knew NOLA was that bad off until Tuesday afternoon. When the levees started to break. The USN turn around was fast.
Ready to set sail with a MEU in less than a day? My ass. Considering the ships are sitting in Norfolk Virginia, and have to travel by sea to Morehead City NC to pick the Marines up. And the Amphibs generally leave 4 days early to embark the Marines. Nice try, but totally without basis in fact.

Hundreds of millions huh? This effort is going to take 25 billion, at least. I'm guessing more because the intial cost estimate is normally on the low side.

Remember folks it took about a week for USN assets to get into the Tsunami region.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:46:20 AM EDT
I heard him talk to CNN and all I heard was "I was smart to do this" "It was a good thing that I am in charge" His ego is getting in the way.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:48:07 AM EDT
Give me $20k and I could have over 70,000 bottles of fresh water in N.O. today.

Than again I wouldnt have to jump through hoops to get it. Goverment sucks at fixing problems in a timely matter, to much bs.

You cant simply say we need 100.000gals of fresh water and get it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:59:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
Let's see.

Monday morning the hurricane hit. It was about 6 hours or so until you could safely get relief supplies in. Then you have 8 or 9 hours of darkness where about the only thing you reasonably can do is move supplies to staging areas. People in the city are so concerned about their situation they decide to console themselves with other people's property.

About 24 hours later, the levees break. The disaster goes from bad to worse. Now we are just over 24 hours after that and you expect what? The entire population to be rescued? Most of that part of LA is a bayou, meaning driving in under normal circumstances is difficult. Now you have flooded out areas. Which means helos or boats. Boats aren't fast and helos take a while to get staged. The USCG has been operating 26 helos and have rescued 1500 people. That doesn't count the USAF helos, USN helos, USMC helos, Guard helos and the like.

Air drop supplies? Where? The city is mostly flooded out. And you're not assured the supplies won't be spoiled by a bad landing. Why not, I don't know, use the aircraft to prestage the supplies in nonflooded areas capable of acting as a refugee camp? Oh wait, that's what they're doing.

You have 25,000 people in the SuperDome, where are you going to move them to? One place or many places? Where are those places? It's amazing they were able to secure the Astrodome so quickly. Oh and some in the SuperDome don't want to leave. Some don't want to go to the Astrodome; some don't want to leave the city. Others want to try to find family.

Eighty percent of the state of MS was without power at one point. A majority of LA was devastated. So where do you move the sick to? Many of the outlying areas of LA and MS have problems, roads blocked etc. You have to get through the outlying areas to get to the city.

From the sea, USN ships don't sit around stocked with disaster supplies. The nearest ships capable of providing help are in Norfolk Virginia, and they are slow ships. You're talking about two days or so of steaming time to get there. The nearest ship, which doesn't have relief supplies is immediatly dispatched, but it'll take about 12 hours for them to get there.

But go ahead start blaming people. You sound about as intelligent as RFK Jr blaming Haley Barber for the hurricane.



Hey! What the hell are you doing bringing facts and common sense into this rant?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:40:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Hey! What the hell are you doing bringing facts and common sense into this rant?


I don't know. I should know better.

Just a couple of thoughts about the response. The USS BATAAN (LHD 5) is on its third day of flight operations and landing craft ops. Looks like my timeline was right on.

70K bottles of water sounds great. But let's look at this based on the magnitude of this disaster. 70K is about 70k liters of water. As of yesterday the .gov has 13.4 million liters of water in the area. So that would make a grand total of 13.47liters of water. 70K liters is about enough water for the people in the Superdome for one day, assuming you limit them to 3 bottles of water, which is one bottle of water less than a human body needs, and then think about the heat.

The logistics of getting it there is staggering. We are seening NOLA all the time on the news, but what about the outlying areas? They need water too. Are you going to drive past those in need? How are you going to get past the bridges that are out? How about the roads that are washed out? That limits your ability to approach the city. Are you going to remove the trees in your path? How are you going to fuel up once you're in the area? There is fuel in the gas stations, but no power to run the pumps. And where there is power the pumps are empty because LA provides gas to the Southeast.

It sounds easy, but there are so many moving parts here it's not funny. The locals have problems because much of their infrastructure was wiped out. Then you have NG units from 7+ states, the USCG, the USN, FEMA, the Red Cross, state and local agencies. Just unifying the chain of command can take days. I'll note the military has formed a JTF Katrina that is standing up as we speak. But they are starting a new organization from scratch. Which means you have to assemble a staff, get in touch with the working parts, find out what has been done, determine what needs to be done, prioritize, and then issue marching orders. It's a daunting task as we are talking about hundreds of square miles that have been affected.

I'm reminded by the Senators on Fox News this morning, just because you don't see something via the TV doesn't mean there isn't action being taken. They are calling for a unified command of the efforts. In fact, the effort to unify the agencies has and is underway. But from DC that can't see it, and this President, unlike Clinton, doesn't get on the TV to announce every move. He let's his people handle the situation. Of course, we could always go back to a President who micro-managed everything. It worked great for Carter and Johnson didn't it?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:00:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:05:05 AM EDT by kk7sm]

Originally Posted By MudBug:
Has our country come to a place where someone thinks they only water they can drink comes out of a bottle and so they die while being surrounded by water?



The water is contaminated with toxic chemicals.

ETA: Air dropping food and water into New Orleans is currently the equivalent of airdropping food and water into Mogadishu.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:31:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:32:14 AM EDT by H46Driver]
Once again, people who think that the media will play up any pit bull attack to make pit bulls appear evil or over-hype any story on assault rifles or .50s suddenly decide that because people without shelter and water are on their screens, the government is doing nothing to remedy the situation. You watch TV news, you get a view through a straw of what is going on. You have absolutely ZERO idea of the magnitude of the relief effort, which is truly impressive, especially considering that early reports were that the situation was better than expected and it wasn't until after structural failures that the situation worsened.

Y'all make me laugh. Airdrop supplies into a flood zone - that's priceless. Why not just dump MREs into the Mississippi at St. Louis and let them float down to the danger areas. What I really wonder is if y'all are so smart why you aren't in charge of some of these large organizations.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:40:29 AM EDT

The water is contaminated with toxic chemicals.



Yeah and sewage, but that will take HOW long to kill you and is medically reversable as opposed to dropping dead from dehydration.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:56:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Yeah and sewage, but that will take HOW long to kill you and is medically reversable as opposed to dropping dead from dehydration.



Depends, since it's kind of hard to boil the water right now, there's a significant threat of amoebic dysentery. I've seen people with amoebic dysentery. If you catch that, the only way to keep the body hydrated is IV fluids. You can't drink because you'll hurl it back up, you're squirting it out your backside as fast as possible, and fever of about a million. And we've also failed to mention, well, dead things floating around in it.

The Army used to evac people from Central America back to the USA for amoebic dysentery in a lot of cases.

It's possible with certain types of filtration systems, you can get by...

I mean, it's a good thought, but chances of dying from dehydration might be higher from drinking the contaminated water than not... Health officials were recommending not even brushing your teeth using that water - there's a high enough chance of catching something lethal or poisoning yourself.

I'm supposing, if people had calcium hypochlorite available, then proper filtration systems, you could make potable water. But then, that's a lot of preparation for the average person to do. The Army has that capability...
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 10:27:06 AM EDT
It's about time.
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